Tonight's Lesson

[ooRya]

What a very strange post.

Is your life so ###### up that you have nothing better to do than moan about a post on the internet about a game I'm assuming you didn't even see?

Substitutions made because of injuries yes, but the wrong player was brought in IN MY OPINION. Which is, after all, what this forum is for.

If you saw the match you would have to say that defending the goal for an hour was the wrong thing and the primary reason we won was because Southampton's multi million pound strikers missed chance after chance. They had 16 shots on goal, we had 4.

How does having an opinion on what choice GJ made tonight mean I've never been under pressure exactly? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Why do you think that a post which simply gives some thoughts on a match in which most people would say we played poorly means that I'm not delighted with our league position or the result?

It's pretty simple. We're doing great. Last night we played poorly and still got a result. This thread is about last night's game. Therefore there aren't lots of words devoted to how great the previous 11 games were. Why is that complicated?

Nibor, I really don't see how you can say we played poorly last night?

First half we played superb football and deservedly took a 2-0 lead.

2nd half Southampton threw 4 up front and went for it....they had nothing to lose after all.

Yes they totally murdered us in the 2nd half, but in my opinion there were just as many positives to be taken from the City performance as there were in the 1st...for different reasons obviously.

I for one, can't ever remember a City team showing so much fight, determination, togetherness and never say die attitude that this current team has. They ran themselves into the ground and literally bled for the cause last night.

Poor performance......no way!

[Nibor]

Nibor, I really don't see how you can say we played poorly last night?

Well, I think we played great for the first 25-30 minutes. Then we stopped doing all the things that had been working, like closing them down in their own half and putting them under pressure.

The final 15 minutes of the first half and the entire second half Southampton dominated.

We defended with guts and heart but they still carved out enough decent goalscoring chances to have won if they finished properly.

I felt it was more a case of us handing them license to come forward than them imposing themselves myself.

Had roles been reversed I'd have felt aggrieved not to have got at least a point possibly 3. 16 chances on goal to our 4, 9 corners to our 1.

[ooRya]

16 chances on goal to our 4, 9 corners to our 1.

You're missing the most important statistic....City 2 Southampton 1.

I know what your saying, and yes I think that perhaps we allowed Saints far too much of the game in the second half. But we are not going to dominate every period of every game, and it's just as important that we put in a "performance" in those periods. just like they did in the second half last night!

[Nibor]

You're missing the most important statistic....City 2 Southampton 1.

I know what your saying, and yes I think that perhaps we allowed Saints far too much of the game in the second half. But we are not going to dominate every period of every game, and it's just as important that we put in a "performance" in those periods. just like they did in the second half last night!

Believe me I'm not missing it, but results and performances are different things.

I think it's partly some sort of sub-conscious psychology. You often see teams sit back after going ahead early and I've been in games where the same has happened. I'm not sure why really, if we'd carried on harrassing them like we had in the first half hour we'd have been out of sight by half time.

[giles_23_bcfc]

Well, I think we played great for the first 25-30 minutes. Then we stopped doing all the things that had been working, like closing them down in their own half and putting them under pressure.

Definatly. I think we lost our momentum when the game stopped for Carey's injury. And we couldnt get it back.

The final 15 minutes of the first half and the entire second half Southampton dominated.

I wouldnt say they dominated the last 15 minutes of the first half but defiatly the second

We defended with guts and heart but they still carved out enough decent goalscoring chances to have won if they finished properly.

We defended normally under GJ which, to other clubs will seem like their life depended on it.

I felt it was more a case of us handing them license to come forward than them imposing themselves myself.

Probably a bit of both along with individual mistakes.

Had roles been reversed I'd have felt aggrieved not to have got at least a point possibly 3. 16 chances on goal to our 4, 9 corners to our 1.

But as far as i remember, most of them werent clear cut, they were half chances and snap shots from outside the area.

[greenun]

was apparently called "How to make the hardest work possible out of the best start you've had all season" and it was definitely a masterclass.

We started with energy, shutting down Southampton all over the pitch, slicing through them at will and looking every bit like we were going to hammer them. We even started the hammering, with a nice bit of poaching off a fantastic corner ball and then a scintillating solo effort from Ivan who ran more than half of the length of the pitch before cutting in and slotting it from 18 yards with his left. Great goal though it was if I was Burley I'd have entered the field of play to stick one on my left back for the worst bit of defending I've seen - he must have backed off 40 yards. With everything going so well and a proper tonking looking to be on the cards for Saints, we seemed to decide that we'd done enough and simply stopped playing. Completely.

Carey went off with a broken nose so we didn't have anyone out there handing out the necessary bollockings. And as the game went on they became more and more necessary. Noble got a knock and stopped passing forwards and he had really looked a little off his game before that anyway. The midfield stopped closing down in their half and started walking about as though they'd won - even Elliott to an extent which surprised me. McCombe and Orr started making uncharacteristic basic errors and Jamie McAllister forgot that the thing on the end of his right leg is also a foot.

Still, we made it to half time intact and I thought a rocket from Johnson during the interval would fix things and we'd be looking at a comfortable win. Nope. Instead Noble had to retire early in the second half and was replaced by Murray, who wonderful though he is simply doesn't fit into the hole in our 4-4-1-1 because instead of keeping the ball his instinct is to turn and run with it. Really I think Trundle would have been a better option to do that job because he's the only player we have with similar skill with the ball at his feet to Noble.

As the second half wore on we defended deeper and deeper and more and more shakily, the passes got longer and longer and the crowd got edgier and edgier. Southampton had a bit more purpose about them but it was us handing them the initiative not them taking it. The forgone conclusion of a goal to Southampton finally occurred just 10 minutes in and already most people were glancing at the clock. The predictable introduction of Skuse who, to be fair to him, did mix it up quite a bit and inject some energy, happened with 20 minutes left and we moved yet further backwards.

In fact the only surprising thing about the game after half time was that we managed to win it. Without the little boost we seemed to get 10 minutes from time when the crowd decided they'd had enough and got behind the team with a few resounding choruses that seemed to get them to think about attacking and closing down again I think we probably would have lost. Southampton fans must be quite dejected having outplayed us for an hour and still lost, but their defending was awful enough to be the reason for that happy circumstance.

To rub salt into their wounds Southampton had a sending off near the end to contend with too. Safri lunged in late and with both feet catching Elliott, a nailed on booking at least. As the ref came over so did Lee Johnson who obviously had a few choice things to say that Safri didn't like because the Morroccan decided to slap the back of Johnson Junior's head. Don't let the inevitable moaning from Saints fans kid you, that was always going to get him sent off as it was in full view of the ref, but the little girlie touch of falling on the floor holding his head from LJ that caused his ex Hearts manager to blank him so completely after 90 minutes really wasn't needed. Please cut that out.

All in all, tonight we put in quite a poor performance and yet still ended up with three points out of a game that before the season kicked off most people would have thought would be very tough. That bodes very well and we did as GJ says put our bodies on the line defending the lead. But I can't help thinking from the way we seemed to lose confidence that perhaps the players have started to get a tiny little bit aware of the league table, and I hope they sort that out for Saturday. The injuries didn't help but the side that played against Sheff Utd and the first 20 minutes of this game would have put six past Southampton, so please lads just forget the league table and just enjoy each game like the boss says.

Nibor, that was a brilliantly honest assessment of last night and well done.

The 'If you're not with us, then you're against us' brigade watch our matches through rose tinted spectacles.

[RedTop]

Absolutely spot on, Nibor. Great report. You were watching the same game as me, which is a relief as sometimes I come on here, read what people have written and assume I must have been at some parallel match.

GJ had little choice in his substitutions but I also wondered at the time why he didn't bring on Trundle instead of Scott as it seemed a more natural choice. The only thing I could think of was that maybe he'd ordered Byfield to run until he dropped and wanted to hold LT back in case he needed to replace him with 10 mins to go. That said, GJ's decision was ultimately vindicated because we won, and you have to judge him on that, so it was more a puzzle than a criticism.

As for the LJ incident, I have to say I am with you again Nibor. I am a big fan of LJ, and some of the criticism he gets on here is unjustified and mystifies me. He's exactly the sort of flair player I want to see down the Gate, and has played a huge part in our revival. But the incident was not that far from me and from what I saw, the contact did not appear to merit LJ's reaction. If a replay shows otherwise, then I will alter my opinion. But I was disappointed at the time because I do NOT want to see City players play-acting to get free-kicks or to get opponents sent off. That's not the sort of thing that makes me proud to be a City fan. Perhaps naively, I like to think we're better than that. Not in terms of skill, maybe, but in terms of our attitude towards the game and a willingness to play it in the right spirit. I hope GJ will have a quiet word in the privacy of the dressing room - not just with LJ but also with the rest of the team - and nip it in the bud. I think all we can do as supporters is send a loud and clear message that makes it clear that we do not want to see it. I was embarrassed to see someone in a City shirt do that.

Like I say, if the replay shows that the contact was hard enough to merit the reaction then I will take it back, but I'm disappointed at the number of people on here who are not disputing what happened yet seem willing to make excuses for it just because it's one of our players. As pointed out, if a Southampton player had done the same we'd have been furious, and rightly so. It does not 'help' a referee to make a decision. It's precisely the sort of thing that makes the referee's job of spotting a foul or violent conduct and distinguishing it from "simulation" (or cheating, as it's more commonly called) almost impossible. The next time the referee makes a poor decision on that front, bear in mind that most of the fault lies with the players who dive, roll and playact in a way that makes spotting the difference in real time virtually impossible for a human.

Anyway, Nibor, I'm starting to worry because I seem to be agreeing with you recently far more often than is healthy for either of us! Bring on Stoke...

[Dolman Block B]

was apparently called "How to make the hardest work possible out of the best start you've had all season" and it was definitely a masterclass.

We started with energy, shutting down Southampton all over the pitch, slicing through them at will and looking every bit like we were going to hammer them. We even started the hammering, with a nice bit of poaching off a fantastic corner ball and then a scintillating solo effort from Ivan who ran more than half of the length of the pitch before cutting in and slotting it from 18 yards with his left. Great goal though it was if I was Burley I'd have entered the field of play to stick one on my left back for the worst bit of defending I've seen - he must have backed off 40 yards. With everything going so well and a proper tonking looking to be on the cards for Saints, we seemed to decide that we'd done enough and simply stopped playing. Completely.

Carey went off with a broken nose so we didn't have anyone out there handing out the necessary bollockings. And as the game went on they became more and more necessary. Noble got a knock and stopped passing forwards and he had really looked a little off his game before that anyway. The midfield stopped closing down in their half and started walking about as though they'd won - even Elliott to an extent which surprised me. McCombe and Orr started making uncharacteristic basic errors and Jamie McAllister forgot that the thing on the end of his right leg is also a foot.

Still, we made it to half time intact and I thought a rocket from Johnson during the interval would fix things and we'd be looking at a comfortable win. Nope. Instead Noble had to retire early in the second half and was replaced by Murray, who wonderful though he is simply doesn't fit into the hole in our 4-4-1-1 because instead of keeping the ball his instinct is to turn and run with it. Really I think Trundle would have been a better option to do that job because he's the only player we have with similar skill with the ball at his feet to Noble.

As the second half wore on we defended deeper and deeper and more and more shakily, the passes got longer and longer and the crowd got edgier and edgier. Southampton had a bit more purpose about them but it was us handing them the initiative not them taking it. The forgone conclusion of a goal to Southampton finally occurred just 10 minutes in and already most people were glancing at the clock. The predictable introduction of Skuse who, to be fair to him, did mix it up quite a bit and inject some energy, happened with 20 minutes left and we moved yet further backwards.

In fact the only surprising thing about the game after half time was that we managed to win it. Without the little boost we seemed to get 10 minutes from time when the crowd decided they'd had enough and got behind the team with a few resounding choruses that seemed to get them to think about attacking and closing down again I think we probably would have lost. Southampton fans must be quite dejected having outplayed us for an hour and still lost, but their defending was awful enough to be the reason for that happy circumstance.

To rub salt into their wounds Southampton had a sending off near the end to contend with too. Safri lunged in late and with both feet catching Elliott, a nailed on booking at least. As the ref came over so did Lee Johnson who obviously had a few choice things to say that Safri didn't like because the Morroccan decided to slap the back of Johnson Junior's head. Don't let the inevitable moaning from Saints fans kid you, that was always going to get him sent off as it was in full view of the ref, but the little girlie touch of falling on the floor holding his head from LJ that caused his ex Hearts manager to blank him so completely after 90 minutes really wasn't needed. Please cut that out.

All in all, tonight we put in quite a poor performance and yet still ended up with three points out of a game that before the season kicked off most people would have thought would be very tough. That bodes very well and we did as GJ says put our bodies on the line defending the lead. But I can't help thinking from the way we seemed to lose confidence that perhaps the players have started to get a tiny little bit aware of the league table, and I hope they sort that out for Saturday. The injuries didn't help but the side that played against Sheff Utd and the first 20 minutes of this game would have put six past Southampton, so please lads just forget the league table and just enjoy each game like the boss says.

First class post mate

[greenun]

Absolutely spot on, Nibor. Great report. You were watching the same game as me, which is a relief as sometimes I come on here, read what people have written and assume I must have been at some parallel match.

GJ had little choice in his substitutions but I also wondered at the time why he didn't bring on Trundle instead of Scott as it seemed a more natural choice. The only thing I could think of was that maybe he'd ordered Byfield to run until he dropped and wanted to hold LT back in case he needed to replace him with 10 mins to go. That said, GJ's decision was ultimately vindicated because we won, and you have to judge him on that, so it was more a puzzle than a criticism.

As for the LJ incident, I have to say I am with you again Nibor. I am a big fan of LJ, and some of the criticism he gets on here is unjustified and mystifies me. He's exactly the sort of flair player I want to see down the Gate, and has played a huge part in our revival. But the incident was not that far from me and from what I saw, the contact did not appear to merit LJ's reaction. If a replay shows otherwise, then I will alter my opinion. But I was disappointed at the time because I do NOT want to see City players play-acting to get free-kicks or to get opponents sent off. That's not the sort of thing that makes me proud to be a City fan. Perhaps naively, I like to think we're better than that. Not in terms of skill, maybe, but in terms of our attitude towards the game and a willingness to play it in the right spirit. I hope GJ will have a quiet word in the privacy of the dressing room - not just with LJ but also with the rest of the team - and nip it in the bud. I think all we can do as supporters is send a loud and clear message that makes it clear that we do not want to see it. I was embarrassed to see someone in a City shirt do that.

Like I say, if the replay shows that the contact was hard enough to merit the reaction then I will take it back, but I'm disappointed at the number of people on here who are not disputing what happened yet seem willing to make excuses for it just because it's one of our players. As pointed out, if a Southampton player had done the same we'd have been furious, and rightly so. It does not 'help' a referee to make a decision. It's precisely the sort of thing that makes the referee's job of spotting a foul or violent conduct and distinguishing it from "simulation" (or cheating, as it's more commonly called) almost impossible. The next time the referee makes a poor decision on that front, bear in mind that most of the fault lies with the players who dive, roll and playact in a way that makes spotting the difference in real time virtually impossible for a human.

Anyway, Nibor, I'm starting to worry because I seem to be agreeing with you recently far more often than is healthy for either of us! Bring on Stoke...

I didn't see the incident first-hand, but after watching Sky Sports News' coverage on the large screen in the Supporters Club bar, one word came to mind: Dida. After the huge publicity surrounding the Rosseneri keeper's antics at Celtic recently, you'd have thought that any professional footballer would be wary of collapsing as though he'd been shot by a sniper, after what can only be described as a gentle tap on the head. Unfortunately, trial by television will out.

[greenun]

Please delete

[REDOXO]

What a very strange post.

Is your life so ###### up that you have nothing better to do than moan about a post on the internet about a game I'm assuming you didn't even see?

I don't normally reply in line but I'll make an exception this once

Here we go again we had this conversation 18 months ago regarding my flight schedule to the UK from Chicago,...You don't know anything about me as I know nothing about you (except what we read)....One day I am sure we will meet, we clearly are never going to see eye to eye, because we have differing perspectives but hey thats life.

Substitutions made because of injuries yes, but the wrong player was brought in IN MY OPINION. Which is, after all, what this forum is for.

But we won the game again! we had to defend against a good side. the players bought on were due to injury, adaptability and with the aim of defending the goal...In Murray's case in particular he is a more adaptable player...I would suggest to you the manager might say we won, I did the right thing, despite the opinion of others and IN MY OPINION he is right

If you saw the match you would have to say that defending the goal for an hour was the wrong thing and the primary reason we won was because Southampton's multi million pound strikers missed chance after chance. They had 16 shots on goal, we had 4.

Defending the goal for an hour is rarely a choice but a factor of the other team pushing forward and wanting to win, perhaps another reason to add pace to the team and play on the break when necessary

How does having an opinion on what choice GJ made tonight mean I've never been under pressure exactly? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Let me eloborate...have you ever had to make decision in front of 20,000 people regarding team selection knowing that what ever you do will be criticised even if you win?

Why do you think that a post which simply gives some thoughts on a match in which most people would say we played poorly means that I'm not delighted with our league position or the result?

I re read my posts and don't see why you said this (I neither said or implied you were not delighted with our win or our league position)...I will assume the above statement is for effect...

It's pretty simple. We're doing great. Last night we played poorly and still got a result. This thread is about last night's game. Therefore there aren't lots of words devoted to how great the previous 11 games were. Why is that complicated?

We did not ' play poorly' (your words twice) in the first half (or perhaps we did in you opinion). In my opinion it is not complicated either, games can not be taken in isolation when considering how the manager sets his team up to try and push us toward the promised land... My thoughts are we won again, the manager was correct in his assesment to play the 14 he did...And I guess we will never know if we would have won if he had taken another route We are second in the table...enjoy

I really don't mind discussing issues with you, but as I said once before a while back if you would like to PM me go ahead as this board gets clogged up with he said she said bollox far to often

Regards Redoxo

[Redhyde]

Redoxo,

We won so everything's ok? Yikes what a blinkered view. I know GJ won't share that view and thank heavens for that!

We by all accounts played pretty badly for around an hour of last nights match. So it's natural to discuss the possible reasons why we played that way. Murray came on and didn't play well, it's a talking point where the manager defies the common sense and logic he's got the reputation for.

I don't understand the view where you can't have an opinion unless you've been a football manager. IF making a decision in front of 20000 football fans is the only way you get to have an opinion, there won't be many people left on the forum.

I'm not sure the forum is the place for you if you only want to discuss the games via pm with OTHER high profile football managers....

[BITW]

Lesson:

When you are playing against a team pressing you into your own half, attempting to play a 6'0" striker as a lone target man vs. John Viafara is not the way to go about things.

When you are playing 4-5-1 with David Noble instrumental to the formation, attempting to make a straight swap for Scott Murray is not advised. Playing a flat 4-4-2 with Trundle & Byfield or even Sproule & Byfield would have worked better.

After recent performances on the right wing would you put Sproule up front again?

[REDOXO]

Redoxo,

We won so everything's ok? Yikes what a blinkered view. I know GJ won't share that view and thank heavens for that!

We by all accounts played pretty badly for around an hour of last nights match. So it's natural to discuss the possible reasons why we played that way. Murray came on and didn't play well, it's a talking point where the manager defies the common sense and logic he's got the reputation for.

I don't understand the view where you can't have an opinion unless you've been a football manager. IF making a decision in front of 20000 football fans is the only way you get to have an opinion, there won't be many people left on the forum.

I'm not sure the forum is the place for you if you only want to discuss the games via pm with OTHER high profile football managers....

Redhyde

Thanks for your comments

Not everything is ok I'm sure. And that was not what I am trying to get across, however we are consistantly obtaining results despite some of the views I read. I certainly saw the logic in what the manager was trying to do.

I certainly didn't mean to imply views are not allowed if you have not been a manager (that would be idiotic), however I have tried on several occasions over the last two years to try and get people to see the game from WHAT I FEEL is the managers perspective.

I'm not sure about the last comment...I was trying to do the right thing and not clog up the forum if Mr Nibor and I are just going to disagree backward and forward. However the sarcasm is duly noted.

[Nibor]

RedOxo

This thread was about the match.

Your first post in the thread says nothing about the match and more or less boils down to "stop being negative because our league position is great you sad anorak who has something wrong with you and a ###### up life who has never been under any pressure and isn't enjoying our success".

I thought it was pretty pathetic to be honest and I'm sure you can write something more interesting.

If you'd posted something that wasn't insulting and was relevant to last night's game I can assure you my reaction would have been entirely different.

Ta.

[Portishead Red]

Thanks for the report Nibor, saved me allot of typing to my friend in Oz. Copy, paste, send, jobs a good un!

Great post.

[zidereddy]

Thanks for the report Nibor, saved me allot of typing to my friend in Oz. Copy, paste, send, jobs a good un!

Great post.

why don't he just log onto this site?

[REDOXO]

RedOxo

This thread was about the match.

Your first post in the thread says nothing about the match and more or less boils down to "stop being negative because our league position is great you sad anorak who has something wrong with you and a ###### up life who has never been under any pressure and isn't enjoying our success".

I thought it was pretty pathetic to be honest and I'm sure you can write something more interesting.

If you'd posted something that wasn't insulting and was relevant to last night's game I can assure you my reaction would have been entirely different.

Ta.

My first Post

The Voice of Sanity...

What is wrong with some people..Are there lives so ###### up they have nothing to do but moan or dress up there orange anorak commentary as insight into whats happening on the park.

Substitutions were made because of the injuries incurred.....!

Southampton came at us because they are a multi talented multi million pound team who wanted to win

We still won....

The manager yet again has done the right thing...Defend the goal and win the match

Anyone that says or implies criticism that Gary Johnson did the wrong thing tonight has probably never in there life ever been subjected to any sought of pressure....Get the result...Move on to Stoke at home on Saturday...And ENJOY BEING SECOND

The post above was in response to another poster who is also obviously frustrated by what they read and your response to them was (Your words) Their 'random silly comment'...If you make comentary to people like this then be prepared to take some back...perhaps if you don't like a response ignoring it may be a good option for you in the future

My comments about the game itself regarding Substitutions/The opposition/The Result/Defending under presure and the managers decision making abilty are clear above.

My comment about the colour of your anorak is probably a bit harsh, but born out of frustration with some of the posts (not just yours) that keep referencing luck or dodgy judgement on the part of the manager or 'a poor performance' and then denegrate other posters into the bargain, maybe you are just smarter than most.

However I have already said I didn't really want to carry a conversation with you about this on the board and as such wont respond here again, thus I will leave it to you to have the final word on here if you feel it necessary...

Good Luck for Saturday

[Nibor]

Perhaps you should consider that I simply posted what I honestly thought about the game and only the game. For example here's what I posted after the WBA game - one where we had a worse result but a far better performance. If you saw the game and had a different opinion I'm more than happy to discuss it, if you just want to slate an assumed motive then I think I'll take your advice and ignore it in future.

[Spud55]

The Voice of Sanity...

What is wrong with some people..Are there lives so ###### up they have nothing to do but moan or dress up there orange anorak commentary as insight into whats happening on the park.

Substitutions were made because of the injuries incurred.....!

Southampton came at us because they are a multi talented multi million pound team who wanted to win

We still won....

The manager yet again has done the right thing...Defend the goal and win the match

Anyone that says or implies criticism that Gary Johnson did the wrong thing tonight has probably never in there life ever been subjected to any sought of pressure....Get the result...Move on to Stoke at home on Saturday...And ENJOY BEING SECOND

Eh? What, yes in the end what Gj did turned out to be te right thing, Even GJ admitted that Murray for Noble didn't work, frankly it was some great last ditch defending and the fact that Rasiak missed a glorious chance that meant we won, i'll put it this way if i was a s'oton fan i'd be a bit bewildered how it didn't end 2-2 at least. good for us that Burley is about as tactically naieve as Willson was, he left out two of the most gifted players in the Championship in favour of a carthourse and a man not fit to lace idiakez boots. When idiakez and Rasiak wern't announced in the strating lineup i felt we had every chance of getting the 3 points, before i got to AG i thought a draw would be a good result.

It's a good result but there were definate areas for improvement, ad i really don't see the problem in pointing that out, much as i'm sure Gj has pointed that out to his players. If we were all like some of the happy clappers then the world wouldn't get anywhere, we'd still be using candles for light as they got the result so why look to improve them ? You think fergie even after winning the Premiership didn't think, hmmm we could improve in these areas. Thats how you keep winning and moving forward. There is always room for improvement and we should always strive to achive this improvement. Yes results are most important but if nobody notices when you win without really deserving to and seek to improve then those results will dry up and the losses will shortly follow.

I rally don't understand the well we won so everything was great and there were no problems mindset.