Concrete Bowl Or Traditional Stadium

[BCFC_Dan]

I've always liked the Stadio Luigi Ferraris.

I know it means the corners aren't filled with seats, but it's far better than having open corners and we could replicate the suspension bridge over the stands behind the goals.

That looks utterly fantastic and I'd be delighted with something that looked like that. It has a real tight and enclosed look about it, a bit like Loftus Road, which would make for a great atmosphere.

Having said that, would it looks as good in an out-of-town location away from all the buildings?

I'd favour something similar in design to the New Den with 4 distinct stands, but there must be a good reason for so many clubs going for bowl-shaped grounds. Presumably they've all considered the issues and decided that the benefits of having the extra seats in the corners outweigh the soulless nature. I can't see Steve L doing differently if that's the case.

Whatever we get (he says, as though it's a foregone conclusion and not idle speculation!) it should hold at least 25,000 people or it'll be a major disappointment in my opinion.

[bucksred]

The MK Mongs new ground aint too shabby, and as it appears to have been designed to have live concerts there, the acoustics aint too shabby at all, and its been built so that it can be expanded if its needed. Noisy fans should keep the noise levels up, and it is I'm told designed to take up to 30,000 if required (Live gigs there instead of the Bowl up here)

The only pisser about it, is that its slap in the middle of a retail park, including IKEA and its a pain in the ass round there as the match finishes, and they're still only a League 2 side. Oh and its a plastic town, and sh......... fans.

[tin]

Traditional stadium all the way for me. I like the look of Everton's designs and something on a smaller scale to that would be awesome for us. The best of the newly (recently) built stadia in England though is the Britannia in Stoke or Deepdale in Preston for me and something similar wouldn't go a miss.

The main attributes for any new stadium would be for it to have brilliant acoustics and be tight to the pitch. I like the 'Suspension Bridge' idea of Edson's and it would add a real local, unique angle to it. Hopefully setting it apart from the rest.

I'd rather stay at the Gate though than have a soulless bowl like those at Southampton, Derby, Boro etc etc.

[Dolman Block B]

Nor me so I had a quick google:

http://stadium.evertonfc.com/stadium-visuals.php

Maybe its just me, but that looks 'ok'

Its better that ok, its bloody smart

[Ecko]

Definatly tradtional stadiums.

For example:

[lincolnreds]

I really like the Richo, one of the best grounds that I have been to - would love for city to have a ground like that.

[Flaxbourton Red]

Arsenal and Liverpool seem to have built/building some pretty good bowls, not to mention the ''lifeless'' Nou Camp!!!!

As long as you have a singing block then can always get an atmosphere......

i've been to the nou camp for a champions league match, the atmosphere was crap

[bucksred]

Yeah, that's not bad.

Personally, my favourite new build of recent years that I've been to is Cologne's ground:

Rhein Energie Stadion

Four distinct stands and 'feature' vertical floodlight towers.

I love Dortmunds ground which has been massively redeveloped. its almost English in its layout, and their fans are some of the best in Germany too

[Frome Valley]

I'd favour something similar in design to the New Den with 4 distinct stands, but there must be a good reason for so many clubs going for bowl-shaped grounds. Presumably they've all considered the issues and decided that the benefits of having the extra seats in the corners outweigh the soulless nature. I can't see Steve L doing differently if that's the case.

Bowls are more functional as multi use stadiums, often cheaper to build and utilise space to the maximum as corners are not existant.

If clubs were going down the route of bulding stadiums primarily for football bowls would not be so prevalent and different design would be considered.

[Mad Cyril]

4 stands every time.

The bowl lacks identity. For example, The Emirates is a wonder of facilities and view, but just cant get away from the armchair effect. It is slightly soleless with fans distributed randomly. Even a 7-0 champions league maestro performance only resulted in 2 momenets when it seemed anything like the ground uniting in the same song.

Opposing stands drives a competitive spirit in the singing stakes, even between fans of the same team.

Oh, and the other key element is how steep you can make the stands. I am all for crampons and seat belts in the upper tier....

[tin]

Definatly tradtional stadiums.

For example:

Something like that would be epic! I'd love to get the Gate up to scratch like that but it would cost megabucks to do it. Our best option is to build four stands like the new EE & Williams in your photo at a 'New Gate' IMO...

[Frome Valley]

Oh, and the other key element is how steep you can make the stands. I am all for crampons and seat belts in the upper tier....

Theres no phyisical reason for this as the slant of the roof is more important but stands with steep rakes tend not have good atmospheres and those with shallower seating do.

[Zider_I_Up_Landlord]

Theres no phyisical reason for this as the slant of the roof is more important but stands with steep rakes tend not have good atmospheres and those with shallower seating do.

Yeah definetly shallower seating. At the millenium stadium it feels like your sat on the shoulders of the bloke infront. If/when the east end gets rebuilt, will it just be for away fans, or will we still be able to stick some singers in there?

[Nibor]

You can't have shallow seating in an upper tier because if you do people can't see the near side of the pitch.

And a steep rank in the upper tier has never seemed to me to be a barrier to a good atmosphere. Some of the italian and turkish stadiums are like this I think, and they don't seem to have a problem generating a real partisan feel.

Besides, if the stand is concertina style, the lower tier has a shallow roof over it which would produce the East End affect.

[giles_23_bcfc]

You can't have shallow seating in an upper tier because if you do people can't see the near side of the pitch.

And a steep rank in the upper tier has never seemed to me to be a barrier to a good atmosphere. Some of the italian and turkish stadiums are like this I think, and they don't seem to have a problem generating a real partisan feel.

Besides, if the stand is concertina style, the lower tier has a shallow roof over it which would produce the East End affect.

Do you mean a bit like the stand we were in at Ipswich?

[Frome Valley]

You can't have shallow seating in an upper tier because if you do people can't see the near side of the pitch.

And a steep rank in the upper tier has never seemed to me to be a barrier to a good atmosphere. Some of the italian and turkish stadiums are like this I think, and they don't seem to have a problem generating a real partisan feel.

Besides, if the stand is concertina style, the lower tier has a shallow roof over it which would produce the East End affect.

Double cantilever stands can have shallow seating top and bottom.

Steep stands are ok for side stands not those which should be the home ends and home to noisy support.

Italian and Turkish stands do not adhere to the ground regs we have here. As a benchmark anything over 35% is not a good idea from a safety point of view and there would be zero tolerance of standing. As of yet this country is a million miles from safe standing!

I always admire single tier stands. The point about the roof is very valid but as soon as you steepen the seating the gape of the stand widens and that admiarable acoustic effect starts to diminish. Excellent examples of stands that provided very good atmosphere are those at Rotherham [Railway end] or Oldham [Rochdale road] both have low roof sand shallow seating which help to amplify sound. Theres is also a stand very similar at Ashton Gate.......!!!

Quite simply in my little romantic utopia i would always go for a single tier stand behind the goal not a double tier as it brakes up the support in that end.

[Frome Valley]

Yeah definetly shallower seating. At the millenium stadium it feels like your sat on the shoulders of the bloke infront. If/when the east end gets rebuilt, will it just be for away fans, or will we still be able to stick some singers in there?

"IF"!!

Home end.

[Nibor]

Double cantilever stands can have shallow seating top and bottom.

Can't see how that can work, the rank has to be steeper in an upper tier to give a view of the whole pitch - unless the upper tier is so far back that there's no overhang above the tier below in which case you have a much bigger problem with respect to atmosphere because half the crowd are miles away from the pitch and there's no echoey roof above anyone.

To illustrate what I mean, compare edson's pic of the Stadio Luigi Ferraris with Ecko's of the "New Williams".

In the Ferraris, the ranks are different between upper and lower tier because of the overhang, in the New Williams they're the same.

I'd bet the one with the overhang generates vastly more sound, and would do even more if the overhang were bigger, even though the upper tier is steeper.

All the fans are closer to the pitch and the lower half has an East End style low roof (or would if it was the overhang were bigger).

[Nibor]

Do you mean a bit like the stand we were in at Ipswich?

Dunno, not there in the last decade.

[Frome Valley]

Can't see how that can work, the rank has to be steeper in an upper tier to give a view of the whole pitch - unless the upper tier is so far back that there's no overhang above the tier below in which case you have a much bigger problem with respect to atmosphere because half the crowd are miles away from the pitch and there's no echoey roof above anyone.

This can be done as long if the stand is not vast and boxes are not included in the design as they will alter sight lines and change the angle of the roof.

I would always go for a single tiered stand behind the goal anyway and would love to see one day City having their own mini kops at each end.

[Barrs Court Red]

In my view, the "traditional" look can be just as shocking as a bowl. Look at Wigans ground for an example of a horrible new build.

I liked the Madjeski when I've been there, also any small scale version of Wembley would be smart. I think it really is an imposing structure.

[Nibor]

This can be done as long if the stand is not vast and boxes are not included in the design as they will alter sight lines and change the angle of the roof.

Maybe we're talking at cross purposes?

A two tier stand with the same rank and no overhang and no boxes separating the tiers is effectively just a big one tiered stand isn't it?

A one tiered stand (one holding the 12k or so fans it would have to for a 40k stadium) means many of the fans are absolutely miles from the pitch and the fans closest to the pitch have a roof 40 yards above them.

If you have two real tiers, where there's an actual overhang, the rank physically cannot be the same but the fans in the lower tier have a much lower roof, and the fans in the upper tier are closer to the pitch.

I reckon the Luigi Ferraris style shown in the pictures would have a far, far better atmosphere than the "New Williams", I'd love to have something like that and then have the lower parts of the ends made safe standing and the overhang increased a bit.

[Frome Valley]

Maybe we're talking at cross purposes?

A two tier stand with the same rank and no overhang and no boxes separating the tiers is effectively just a big one tiered stand isn't it?

A one tiered stand (one holding the 12k or so fans it would have to for a 40k stadium) means many of the fans are absolutely miles from the pitch and the fans closest to the pitch have a roof 40 yards above them.

If you have two real tiers, where there's an actual overhang, the rank physically cannot be the same but the fans in the lower tier have a much lower roof, and the fans in the upper tier are closer to the pitch.

I reckon the Luigi Ferraris style shown in the pictures would have a far, far better atmosphere than the "New Williams", I'd love to have something like that and then have the lower parts of the ends made safe standing and the overhang increased a bit.

The present day kop holds 13000 and fans are not that far away from the pitch in comparison to the rear of Villas Holte End which is a double tier stand.The Kop also does not possess a high roof and could have been lower or slanted at the front.

Two tiered stands are normally built becuse they have more than one floor for the facilities in side and they do break up the atmosphere often vey dramatically. Newcastles redevelopment is an example where the atmosphere in the Gallowgate has suffered because of this.

Two tiers can be done in the manner i mentioned but you are right about the decks so you move the upper back which still would fall within a reasonable distance from the pitch while allowing a low roof. I still would not build that behind the goal as that should always be where younger elements gather to get behind the team in one tiered stand.

As for the new Williams i would put boxes, corportate entertainment, everything in there which would then limit its possibilties for different designs.