megansdad Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Just watched the SL interview and what Steve L actually said was we lost 15k versus a crowd of 12,500, which is roughly what we could have expected had prices not been reduced. Hence as I argued before the case for ticket reductions is far from proven.What he also said was he is grateful to those fans that do show up and "invest" in the club and he feels that with continued success crowds will continue to grow.He felt the balance in pricing is not quite there but pretty close and while there will be offers like quid a kid for Colchester these will be looked at on a game by game basis. Also that filling the ground at lower prices would result in players and staff needing to take wage cuts. Thanks to the position we are in and the more sound footing the club is on he confirmed we are in a position to turn down a 2 million pound offer for a player and frankly we should all be happy about that.All in all a thoroughly good interview with optimism and ambition clear for all to see. Along with a sound business brain and a firm grasp of the numbers (average price for the Barnsely game being 10.74 being one example).To those that continue to argue the club has got it wrong and pick numbers from the air please face facts - SL and CS have far greater insight on the needs of the club financially and are in a far better position than you to judge the pricing policy, which is supporting our best league position in over 20 years and our best crowds in over 25.Here's to a win tomorrow and Man City at home in round 4 for a full house and a chance to avenge, to use GJ's terminology, our Carling Cup defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megansdad Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 I'd certainly sign that petition. I feel its best for the club in the long term as well.Exactly how ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Just watched the SL interview and what Steve L actually said was we lost 15k versus a crowd of 12,500, which is roughly what we could have expected had prices not been reducedIf that's what he said, then combined with the average prices per seat he gives his numbers simply do not add up. 12,500 crowd = 2,500 match tickets. SL says average seat price of £21 = £52500.16,588 crowd = 6,588 match tickets. SL says average seat price of £10.74 = £70755.Either we did not lose £15k vs a crowd of 12.5k or the average seat prices he gives in the same interview are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 If that's what he said, then combined with the average prices per seat he gives his numbers simply do not add up. 12,500 crowd = 2,500 match tickets. SL says average seat price of £21 = £52500.16,588 crowd = 6,588 match tickets. SL says average seat price of £10.74 = £70755.Either we did not lose £15k vs a crowd of 12.5k or the average seat prices he gives in the same interview are wrong.~£3000. The hole in your srguments are being exposed and you quibble over £3000?C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 ~£3000. The hole in your srguments are being exposed and you quibble over £3000?C~£33,000Try putting the numbers the right way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 ~£33,000Try putting the numbers the right way around.Oops - just goes to prove you only see what you want to see!!How do they count the attendance anyway? Are all season tickets counted whether they turn up or not cos a quick calc suggests that POTD would have needed to have been c.4000 at full price to have garnered a £15k loss. Or do we have only 8500 season ticket holders?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Oops - just goes to prove you only see what you want to see!!How do they count the attendance anyway? Are all season tickets counted whether they turn up or not cos a quick calc suggests that POTD would have needed to have been c.4000 at full price to have garnered a £15k loss. Or do we have only 8500 season ticket holders??It's not really attendance, it's ticket sales. It swapped from being a turnstile count to a ticket sales count about 4-5 years back. Season tickets are counted regardless of whether they turn up, so are Prem club seats. Colin or Steve answered that question on here a couple of years back.We had 9,200 season ticket holders at the start of the season + 400 Premier club seats sold, and we tipped over 10,000 in total over the Xmas period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Oops - just goes to prove you only see what you want to see!!How do they count the attendance anyway? Are all season tickets counted whether they turn up or not cos a quick calc suggests that POTD would have needed to have been c.4000 at full price to have garnered a £15k loss. Or do we have only 8500 season ticket holders??Even if we did have 8500 season ticket holders then there would be more actual potd people at the barnsley game.I can't work it out with those average prices. Maybe they included the revenue from season tickets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolrich Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Exactly how ?Well look at what the increase in prices have done. c.800 season ticket holders gone, we only have reached 10,000 because theres only half way through the season. People like Fatman - ST holders for years now not going - this is terrible! These high prices mean that people who love their team and want to go every week now can't go!Lower prices are good in the long term because it does mean more people will go, hence more fans and it is the fans that make a club! Not TV and not coroporate people, I don't want AG or the new stadium to be like the new Wembley when come the start of the second half, no one is watching the game!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 I can't work it out with those average prices. Maybe they included the revenue from season tickets?Revenue from season tickets was unaffected!If you use the whole crowd as the figure the difference is 80k the other way.If you leave out away fans it still appears to favour the Barnsley game by over ten grand.If the prices per seat are correct, the only way we lost £15k is if they were expecting a crowd of 12.5k home fans and around 1,000 away fans at normal price. I don't think that is a realistic estimate myself. But the overriding point I'd make is that surely the Barnsley attendance was good enough to make it worth trying a couple of games with significant (but not half price) reductions to get a more solid idea about the economics of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Revenue from season tickets was unaffected!If you use the whole crowd as the figure the difference is 80k the other way.If you leave out away fans it still appears to favour the Barnsley game by over ten grand.If the prices per seat are correct, the only way we lost £15k is if they were expecting a crowd of 12.5k home fans and around 1,000 away fans at normal price. I don't think that is a realistic estimate myself. But the overriding point I'd make is that surely the Barnsley attendance was good enough to make it worth trying a couple of games with significant (but not half price) reductions to get a more solid idea about the economics of it?The home and away fans would have to pay the same price wouldn't they? Isn't that waht happened to us at Preston and we were issued refunds?The only other thing is that the average is not the mean (revenue / numbers) but that wouldn't make much sense to me.I agree with your overriding point. I don't believe anything to have been proved or disproved on the basis of one game and the opportunity should be taken to test the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolrich Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 ~£33,000Try putting the numbers the right way around.Interesting figures... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 The home and away fans would have to pay the same price wouldn't they? Isn't that waht happened to us at Preston and we were issued refunds?Yep I wasn't suggesting they pay a different price, just meaning perhaps his figures ignored away fans but that doesn't add up either.The only other thing is that the average is not the mean (revenue / numbers) but that wouldn't make much sense to me.£10.74 wasn't the mode or the median Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megansdad Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Well look at what the increase in prices have done. c.800 season ticket holders gone, we only have reached 10,000 because theres only half way through the season. People like Fatman - ST holders for years now not going - this is terrible! These high prices mean that people who love their team and want to go every week now can't go!Lower prices are good in the long term because it does mean more people will go, hence more fans and it is the fans that make a club! Not TV and not coroporate people, I don't want AG or the new stadium to be like the new Wembley when come the start of the second half, no one is watching the game!!!Yes 800 went away but we ended up with many more as others saw the value of sts and championship football. There's lots i'd like to do but don't because its too expensive so sorry your argument does not wash. if we want a competitive team and quality players then the reality is there's a cost. Free football is available week in week out elsewhere, Championship football has a higher cost and bringing in players in like our new aussie signing needs to be paid for. That's reality you and indeed i may not like what Sky has done to English football but I'm sure I'd prefer the competitive team we have to the one the blue few get to follow. I back sl to have a better idea on appropriate pricing than you or I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Yep I wasn't suggesting they pay a different price, just meaning perhaps his figures ignored away fans but that doesn't add up either.£10.74 wasn't the mode or the median I was thinking that maybe certain groups of fans had been excluded. Maybe in the official attendance there were quite a few freebies or that the upper and lower 10 percentiles were excluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff65 Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Answer me these questions: - if City had to postpone a match will they refund to my credit card the full cost of the match ticket plus the handling fee or just the match ticket price?-if the match was abandoned after half time and offer a discount for the re-arranged match will they still charge me a handling fee?I think the imposition of extra fees for giving City my business is a rediculous scenario that the club have got themselves into by following the example of others and not using their own common sense.Make sure there are enough oppertunities each season for discounted tickets or quid a kid matches and the abolishment of any surcharges and the club are nearly there in terms of pricing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Yes 800 went away ...But 800 didn't go away - 800 didn't renew the same seat that they had last season. Some of them moved to different seats or part of the ground. And there will always be natural wastage. Some of them wouldn't have renewed even if prices hadn't gone up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 I was thinking that maybe certain groups of fans had been excluded. Maybe in the official attendance there were quite a few freebies or that the upper and lower 10 percentiles were excluded.There will be the freebies (I used to get a couple of free season tickets for Swindle - great dust gatherers they were!) - but not too many one would hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolrich Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Yes 800 went away but we ended up with many more as others saw the value of sts and championship football. There's lots i'd like to do but don't because its too expensive so sorry your argument does not wash. I back sl to have a better idea on appropriate pricing than you or I.Just a shame then that the club is making it too expensive for a lot of genuine fans who want to see Bristol City play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh_red Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 But 800 didn't go away - 800 didn't renew the same seat that they had last season. Some of them moved to different seats or part of the ground. And there will always be natural wastage. Some of them wouldn't have renewed even if prices hadn't gone up.also worth mentioning that as also quoted by Colin Sexstone, the 800 about the AVERAGE amount of "non-seat-renewals" each season, i.e - it's about normal, however some have hyped it up to be a big deal, when actually it is the norm, especailly when considering that nearly 250 moved their ST's to the East End. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tompo Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolrich Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Based on the prices that you originally quoted (£5 for U16's £10 OAP/Students £12 for adults) I doubt very much if we would be in a position to turn down any bids. We may have full houses but would probably be watching League 1 football at best. I am not saying the current prices are right but yours are way too low for where we are and want to be.I suggested those prices, to make football a viable alternative to other forms of entertainment, which could also lead to more people becoming ST holders. I think that the club made a big mistake in thinking that a lot people would be prepared to pay c.£30 every other week or so for 1 1/2 hours of entertainment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Kylie Minogue concert, WestLife concert, Bryan Adams etc etc.You're hardly going to see Kylie 23 times a year are you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolrich Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 This topics starting to get a bit boring to me. I'm just going to get a season ticket! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megansdad Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Just a shame then that the club is making it too expensive for a lot of genuine fans who want to see Bristol City play! The club isn't it's simply moving with the times, our league place and an ambition to go further - genuine fans have to pay 50 quid for a day's Test cricket at Lord's and how much is a pint these days? or a gallon of petrol?This topics starting to get a bit boring to me. I'm just going to get a season ticket! Now that's more like it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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