Lj Shirking Responsibility

[megansdad]

Nibor - agree Tinman took some frightful stick for quite some time but came through it - I hope LJ does too. I thought LJ was far from the least effective player yesterday. Nobes early on looked tired out and while he played a few good balls he was not involved in the second half and no-one could argue LJ should have come off instead of him on yesterday's showing. what people seem to fail to see is the amount of ground LJ covers - sure he makes the odd mistake and is never likely to win too may headers but he is an important member of the team, an effective team that has got us where we now stand.

Yesterday thought Ivan too often tried to beat his man with a dribble when not moving at pace, Basso was clearly at fault for the goal and we missed McIndoe on the left. Subs really couldn't get in the game. We were beaten but not outplayed why LJ should bear the brunt of criticism I can't see. To imply the GJ the man who has lead us to the highest position we have been in English football for a quarter of a century favours him is nothing short of insulting and shows those that make such assertion are not the sharpest tools in the box.

[Bristol Boy]

Respect to you yessir, and to Lee. I'm with Scott Minto who said on Sky that Lee is one player who could cut it at a higher level.

Time for some honesty I feel and, whilst I've seen LJ do OK against Prem opposition, I'm unconvinced that he could cut it in oue team at that level.Mind you, that appiles to about 85% of our squad.Now, take one of them and put him in Man Utds team, different matter as it's not just you but the guys in your team.

Like Ray Wilkins, who also used to get unjustified criticism, Lee's priority is to build moves from the back and to that extent he takes more responsibility and risks than any other player. How many players even at Championship level have the quality and time to get their head up and look at the passing options as Lee does?

That could well be a better discussion to be had.What type of player is he and I'm not sold on the playmaker type.Is he like Tinnion, Kavanagh or Koumas? No, not really.Is he like Gary Shelton who was, for me, a more attacking player? He's not combative ala Tommy or for those who remember the older days Terry Hurlock at Millwall or Kevin Ball at Sunderland. So what is he and what should he be doing?

I've said this on plenty of occassions, I'll go with it again.He should,ala his goal at Orient last season, link up with the strikers, play one two's and get past the ball.Affect the play around and in the penalty area a lot more than he does.For some reason his goal ratio at City is far worse than it was at Yeovil, even before we entered the CCC and it could be that he's playing to orders and "sitting" more than he used to when he partnered Darren Way?

In terms of passing, his power & range isn't up there with players like Tinnion, so his game is shorter, but he can see a pass and hits the occassional top drawer one.He's fit as a flea, doesn't hide and keeps going.He's good at dead ball kicks in terms of crossing/corners, but won't kill sides off with many goals direct from them, although his shooting is vastly underused by the team because the kid can hit a ball.He's not a great tackler or ball winner and that, as Nibor said, won't always endear you to some sections of our support who confuse input with output, temper with passion and effort with ability.

Having said that, Jacki was quite popular as well as Tommy, so it's not all of us by a long way. Ultimately, my overriding point would be that LJ should be judged of performances and that's what I'll continue to do.

If a good forward option is not on he will indeed play it backwards if necessary and then make himself available to pick the ball up again to make a better angle. Watch our first goal against Coventry for an example of how Lee built it up from the back, joined in again and set up David Noble for an example of his quality. Notice as well how many of his team mates rushed to Lee to congratulate him afterwards. They obviously appreciate him even if a vocal minority of our own fans don't.

LJ & DN compliment each other and that's another reason for 4-4-1-1.

Sometimes Lee will lose posession. Shock horror probe, check out how often Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard do that. I'm willing to bet that ProZone would show Lee's ball retention is up there with the best but because he plays in a high-risk position in front of the back four it gets noticed more. If David Noble does the same it is likely to be 70 yards from our goal so nobody makes a fuss (no reflection on David who is also a gifted player).

I don't think his ball retention would be up there.That is a weakeness in Lee's game and it's also a result of some very poor movement in front of him at times.Another reason we need a quality target man/striker.

What you won't usually find Lee doing is bashing hopeful balls upfield.The problem is there is still a culture in English football that demands exactly that, hence the abject failure of our international team where over-rated, multi-millionaire players are incapable of retaining possession and we fall back on lumping it towards Peter Crouch. Perhaps our fans would prefer Boothroyd or Pulis as manager? Then we won't have to argue about skilfull midfield players because there won't be any.

God forbid

I often wonder whether those who claim Lee keeps his place because he is Gary's son consider what they are saying about Gary. Are they really saying that one of the most forward thinking and respected English managers in the game (any arguments on that one?) would be so unprofessional? Did Danny Wilson keep picking Lee Peacock because he was his secret love child? No, that was his judgement. I disagreed with him but did not invent an ulterior motive for him doing it. Disagree with Gary if you must but why slander (or is libel if its online?) him in doing so?

As I said earlier, GJ would have been well aware of the opportunity for people to level that accusation before signing LJ.I'm afraid that it's something that won't go away and the only way to silence the detractors would be to do what he's doing.Win.

Our style of football, which has brought a lot of deserved praise this season, is built around Lee. If we lose him we have a real problem. May I remind everybody again that Brian Tinnion also used to get abuse in his early days? To quote Joni Mitchell "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you got till its gone?"

Although perhaps that proves Nibor's point as oppossed to those who say it's about relationships?

The pernicious influence of the wasters yessir refers to still seems to be in our bloodstream off the field. I confess I walked away from the club after the Brighton game because I couldn't stomach the culture of the club any more. It was Gary and consummate professionals like Lee that brought me back and I couldn't find anything to complain about about our players if I tried.

To be honest, I've heard none of that this season and I'd like to know who and what yessir was referring to

Apologies for rambling. Rant over.

Some good points and not a ramble.

I agree. What most people don't see is that most (if not all) our play goes through LJ, so any mistake is going to be noticed. However, some people think that there are 5 or 6 LJ's. When ANY missplaced pass goes astray, whoever it may be, its always LJ that gets the blame!

Quite extraordinary!

I don't think he gets anymore stick than Sproule & Trundle, for example.Apologies if that doesn't fit in with the thread but it's my honest view.

[Godzilla]

My view on Lee Johnson

[Drew Peacock]

as Nibor said, won't always endear you to some sections of our support who confuse input with output, temper with passion and effort with ability.

Spot on and there are a lot of them.

[LSN]

Respect to you yessir, and to Lee. I'm with Scott Minto who said on Sky that Lee is one player who could cut it at a higher level. Like Ray Wilkins, who also used to get unjustified criticism, Lee's priority is to build moves from the back and to that extent he takes more responsibility and risks than any other player. How many players even at Championship level have the quality and time to get their head up and look at the passing options as Lee does? If a good forward option is not on he will indeed play it backwards if necessary and then make himself available to pick the ball up again to make a better angle. Watch our first goal against Coventry for an example of how Lee built it up from the back, joined in again and set up David Noble for an example of his quality. Notice as well how many of his team mates rushed to Lee to congratulate him afterwards. They obviously appreciate him even if a vocal minority of our own fans don't.

Sometimes Lee will lose posession. Shock horror probe, check out how often Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard do that. I'm willing to bet that ProZone would show Lee's ball retention is up there with the best but because he plays in a high-risk position in front of the back four it gets noticed more. If David Noble does the same it is likely to be 70 yards from our goal so nobody makes a fuss (no reflection on David who is also a gifted player).

What you won't usually find Lee doing is bashing hopeful balls upfield.The problem is there is still a culture in English football that demands exactly that, hence the abject failure of our international team where over-rated, multi-millionaire players are incapable of retaining possession and we fall back on lumping it towards Peter Crouch. Perhaps our fans would prefer Boothroyd or Pulis as manager? Then we won't have to argue about skilfull midfield players because there won't be any.

I often wonder whether those who claim Lee keeps his place because he is Gary's son consider what they are saying about Gary. Are they really saying that one of the most forward thinking and respected English managers in the game (any arguments on that one?) would be so unprofessional? Did Danny Wilson keep picking Lee Peacock because he was his secret love child? No, that was his judgement. I disagreed with him but did not invent an ulterior motive for him doing it. Disagree with Gary if you must but why slander (or is libel if its online?) him in doing so?

Our style of football, which has brought a lot of deserved praise this season, is built around Lee. If we lose him we have a real problem. May I remind everybody again that Brian Tinnion also used to get abuse in his early days? To quote Joni Mitchell "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you got till its gone?"

The pernicious influence of the wasters yessir refers to still seems to be in our bloodstream off the field. I confess I walked away from the club after the Brighton game because I couldn't stomach the culture of the club any more. It was Gary and consummate professionals like Lee that brought me back and I couldn't find anything to complain about about our players if I tried.

Apologies for rambling. Rant over.

an absolutely brilliant post and every point you raised I agree with. Johnson is a great little player, one of the most important players in our team and to say he is only picked because of his Dad is totally pathetic.

[chinapig]

Time for some honesty I feel and, whilst I've seen LJ do OK against Prem opposition, I'm unconvinced that he could cut it in oue team at that level.Mind you, that appiles to about 85% of our squad.Now, take one of them and put him in Man Utds team, different matter as it's not just you but the guys in your team.

That could well be a better discussion to be had.What type of player is he and I'm not sold on the playmaker type.Is he like Tinnion, Kavanagh or Koumas? No, not really.Is he like Gary Shelton who was, for me, a more attacking player? He's not combative ala Tommy or for those who remember the older days Terry Hurlock at Millwall or Kevin Ball at Sunderland. So what is he and what should he be doing?

I've said this on plenty of occassions, I'll go with it again.He should,ala his goal at Orient last season, link up with the strikers, play one two's and get past the ball.Affect the play around and in the penalty area a lot more than he does.For some reason his goal ratio at City is far worse than it was at Yeovil, even before we entered the CCC and it could be that he's playing to orders and "sitting" more than he used to when he partnered Darren Way?

In terms of passing, his power & range isn't up there with players like Tinnion, so his game is shorter, but he can see a pass and hits the occassional top drawer one.He's fit as a flea, doesn't hide and keeps going.He's good at dead ball kicks in terms of crossing/corners, but won't kill sides off with many goals direct from them, although his shooting is vastly underused by the team because the kid can hit a ball.He's not a great tackler or ball winner and that, as Nibor said, won't always endear you to some sections of our support who confuse input with output, temper with passion and effort with ability.

Having said that, Jacki was quite popular as well as Tommy, so it's not all of us by a long way. Ultimately, my overriding point would be that LJ should be judged of performances and that's what I'll continue to do.

LJ & DN compliment each other and that's another reason for 4-4-1-1.

I don't think his ball retention would be up there.That is a weakeness in Lee's game and it's also a result of some very poor movement in front of him at times.Another reason we need a quality target man/striker.

God forbid

As I said earlier, GJ would have been well aware of the opportunity for people to level that accusation before signing LJ.I'm afraid that it's something that won't go away and the only way to silence the detractors would be to do what he's doing.Win.

Although perhaps that proves Nibor's point as oppossed to those who say it's about relationships?

To be honest, I've heard none of that this season and I'd like to know who and what yessir was referring to

Some good points and not a ramble.

Probably not good netiquette to enter into a one to one debate BB so I'll just say a typically well argued contrary view, free of the unnecessary personal stuff about Lee that appears too often on here.

[chinapig]

an absolutely brilliant post and every point you raised I agree with. Johnson is a great little player, one of the most important players in our team and to say he is only picked because of his Dad is totally pathetic.

[chinapig]

No need to apologise.

A great post with many salient points.

Agree wholeheartedly.

[Maltshoveller]

The problem with this forum

and with alot of city fans is

They rate players on how much they like them

not

on what they do on the pitch

If your favorite player has a poor game

like mine (Noble) did yesturday say so don't defend them

and if the player you hate has a blinder,give credit where its due

[dezgimed]

The problem with this forum

and with alot of city fans is

They rate players on how much they like them

not

on what they do on the pitch

If your favorite player has a poor game

like mine (Noble) did yesturday say so don't defend them

and if the player you hate has a blinder,give credit where its due

True.

I think I dislike LJ because of the manner of his earlier performances for us.

But, he had a poor game, as pointed out.

My favorite player is probably Brooker, and he's been shit this season...

[Bristol Boy]

The problem with this forum and with alot of city fans is they rate players on how much they like them not on what they do on the pitch

If your favorite player has a poor game like mine (Noble) did yesturday say so don't defend them and if the player you hate has a blinder,give credit where its due

That's why I don't have a favourite player/coach/manager etc, etc.It enables one to be open minded about situations like players coming or going and performances both by the team and individuals.

[scumbag]

judging by some of the posts on here recently, it seems that pretty much every player in the squad should be "rested/pulled out of firing line/dropped" for their own good, because most of the have been terrible this season and in recent games, especially the last 3 wins in the last 4 league games.

:noexpression:

[Guest Eamer]

Nick Carle to the rescue...?

[WhistleHappy]

Nick Carle to the rescue...?

..well being joint top of our league right now I don't think we require 'rescuing' from anything just yet, but no matter what the state of battle may be a good extra soldier will always be welcome & I'm sure Sgt Johnson is delighted with the new recruit in our ranks.

I'll go along with the rescue theme though...

Nick Carle Aussie via Turkey to England could be a case of International Rescue, Thunderbirds (well Robins) are Go! cue music ...

# daa de de daa, daa daa daa daa daa de daa de daaa, daa daa de daaa, daa daa daa daa, daa de daa daa dum de dum de dum, dum dum dum dum... etc... ... #

So if Nick Carle is a Thunderbird -which one is he?...... 1,2,3,4 or 5, and which players make up the rest of City's Thunderbirds?

Then which players are City's Superman, Spiderman, Batman (oops almost said Robin then ) Captain Marvel, etc have we got a full squad of superheroes?.. have we got an Invisible Man? (thats gotta be Steve Brooker's title so far I guess)..

(blimey, look at the time, think I better get meself to bed -before I start typing something silly!! )

ps.. Oh Yeah, Lee Johnson plays like a donkey! - he must do, otherwise why would so many idiots want to keep getting on his back all the time?

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

True.

I think I dislike LJ because of the manner of his earlier performances for us.

But, he had a poor game, as pointed out.

My favorite player is probably Brooker, and he's been shit this season...

I think that this shows your knowledge of football..... How can you say that Brooker has been shit this season he has been injured.

Just for the record, Johnson had a good game on Sat. He actually won quite a few tackles which is a weakness in his game. The game went through him as usual but he couldnt find the killer pass as Middlesboro marked us out of the game from start to finish so he kept giving it short to Marv or playing it back to the defence. SURELY THIS IS BETTER THAN HOOFING IT UP JUST FOR IT TO COME STRAIGHT BACK TO US. Bradley Orr had the same problem today he kept hitting the long ball which made it easier for them especially as we only had 1 up.

[Wilse]

[Redtucks]

How many more threads can we have about LJ? Oh, wait a minute; we lost a game of football so he must be to blame!

The negative points always revolve around the same three issues; he gives the ball away too much, he doesn't tackle and he's the manager's son.

Yes, he gives the ball away occasionally, but that's because he is often trying to find a penetrating pass that can start an attack. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. As the playmaker, this is what he's employed to do.

In respect of tackling, because of his work rate he often gets his body behind the ball holding up the opposition and he does nick the ball back too. But again, that's not his primary function in the team. Man U fans didn't call for Paul Scholes to be dropped because he couldn't tackle!

The final point about him being the manager's son is truly unbelievable. GJ has taken us so far in such a short space of time and LJ has been a vital part of that success. Since he has signed for us we have been promoted and sit joint top of the league. If people think that he is just a talentless footballer, being carried by the team and protected by his father, they should surely be celebrating the fact that we have the luckiest footballer alive. How else could you explain all the success we've had with him in the team? However, I think that it's because of him that we are where we are, not in spite of him.

It makes me feel ashamed to be a City fan when people attack GJ with claims of nepotism. He has achieved so much and taken us so far, in such a short space of time, we should believe in his knowledge, judgment and professionalism. Remember, success for us is as rare as a sighting of Halley's Comet!

Hear, Hear!

Well said.

[chinapig]