Seasiders Sick As Grayson Suffers At House Of Elliott

[Blagdon red]

BB's report and ratings from the Blackpool game are now online:

Seasiders Sick As Grayson Suffers At House Of Elliott

[GeoTheCiderHead]

Pretty fair ratings ... but I thought Byfield was worthy of a 7.

[zippycar]

[Haster]

Why change to 4-4-1-1 v QPR NEVER change a winning side!!!

[Leveller]

see the separate Lee Johnson thread for many many contrary opinions on his match - six? No way.

I also thought McIndoe worked his socks off and was one of our better players.

We defended well, but the worst aspect was the way Orr and McCombe particularly tried to lump the ball forward, when we work so much better with Lee picking the ball up at the back and gradually moving it forward. In the second half they seemed to decide on desperation clearances instead of calm controlled football. I don't extend that criticism to Vasko and McAllister though.

[Bristol Boy]

Pretty fair ratings ... but I thought Byfield was worthy of a 7.

Why?

Why change to 4-4-1-1 v QPR NEVER change a winning side!!!

Couple of reasons:

1.Sproule can come back and we'll have far better balance than yesterday.

2.It allows both LJ & Carle to play.Carle's wasted out wide, especilally on the right.

3.Rafa Benitez didn't play the same team for about 90 games and they won the Champions League & FA Cup, so the adage is out of date and just plain wrong.It's based on thinking that says, we won so we must have played well or we lost so we must have been poor-Both statements are incorrect.

see the separate Lee Johnson thread for many many contrary opinions on his match - six? No way.

Tell me why you thought he was worth more over 90 minutes.

I also thought McIndoe worked his socks off and was one of our better players.

Hard work & end product aren't the same thing-He's there for assists and goals as well and once again, there weren't any.

We defended well, but the worst aspect was the way Orr and McCombe particularly tried to lump the ball forward, when we work so much better with Lee picking the ball up at the back and gradually moving it forward. In the second half they seemed to decide on desperation clearances instead of calm controlled football. I don't extend that criticism to Vasko and McAllister though.

As I eluded to in the R&R, Orr & McCombe can't pass the ball so why ask them to do it? All it does is concede possession and we did that far to much in the second half-a similar pattern pattern to many games and our midfield need to take more responsibility and take the ball off the back four more.Although it should be noted that our goal came from an Orr clump forward into the front of the box

[gaz897]

BB's report and ratings from the Blackpool game are now online:

Seasiders Sick As Grayson Suffers At House Of Elliott

What a total load of Bo!!ocks! Johnson = 6? Don't get me wrong I think the guys not good enough but was one of the best players today. Credit where credits due. Byfield = 5? Worked his socks of as did McIndoe. Sounds to me like your some kind of stats wierdo with nothing better to do with your time. Give the players the credit they deserve for winning the games. 5,6,7s. Bloody hell.

[Alex_BCFC]

I find myself agreeing with most of those ratings except possibly Carle who was above anyone for us today whilst he was on. 7.5 maybe?! And maybe Johnson 6.5 as he played well until Hoolohan dominated.

[Bristol Boy]

What a total load of Bo!!ocks!

Very adult and a clever use of words

Johnson = 6? Don't get me wrong I think the guys not good enough but was one of the best players today.

So would yu say he was better than Elliott, McCombe, McAllister & Vasko or had a greater effect on the game than Basso with that great save??

Credit where credits due. Byfield = 5? Worked his socks of as did McIndoe.

And you're another one who confuses input with output.Byfield didn't have an assist or a goal.That's why he's in the side and, whilst he does it off the bench, his record when he starts and his partnership with Trundle doesn't work.That's why GJ's trying to sign a striker or two

Sounds to me like your some kind of stats wierdo with nothing better to do with your time.

I actually wonder if you get to every game home and away because your knowledge of football & City seems patchy at best.I don't care what it sounds like to you and if you can't keep it sensible don't reply.

Give the players the credit they deserve for winning the games. 5,6,7s. Bloody hell.

Great credit for effort & commitment-No so good for quality in a poor second half.

I find myself agreeing with most of those ratings except possibly Carle who was above anyone for us today whilst he was on. 7.5 maybe?! And maybe Johnson 6.5 as he played well until Hoolohan dominated.

I don't give half marks and Carle would have got more if there was a major assist and a goal, as would McIndoe.LJ would have marked higher if we hadn't almost surrendered midfield to Blackpool in the second half.That's a pattern that has been replcated on many occassions this season and we need to address it.Whether it's stamina or quality I don't know but, as I saod, it's a pattern. Thanks for a sensible response.

[gaz897]

I don't give half marks and Carle would have got more if there was a major assist and a goal, as would McIndoe.LJ would have marked higher if we hadn't almost surrendered midfield to Blackpool in the second half.That's a pattern that has been replcated on many occassions this season and we need to address it.Whether it's stamina or quality I don't know but, as I saod, it's a pattern. Thanks for a sensible response.

Knowledge of BC? What a geek u r. Dam I don't believe I've taken the BCFC test yet. Can u tell me if u can do a distance learning package or is it a full time course?

[old_man_terry]

I find myself agreeing with most of those ratings except possibly Carle who was above anyone for us today whilst he was on. 7.5 maybe?! And maybe Johnson 6.5 as he played well until Hoolohan dominated.

agree, Carle/Johnson deserved higher ratings as others have agreed, still it's just one persons view.

if you look at the other ratings your get a bigger picture of what most people think?

http://www.clubfanzine.com/bristol_city/showNews.php?id=8080

based on 55 votes at time of posting, I'd think most would agree that Johnson/Elliott and Vasko were our best performers yesterday

[Claverham_Red]

Ratings seem pretty fair to me. Agreed about the Byfield rating. In the games where he's been up front on his tod his workrate has been fantastic but yesterday it was all a bit below-par for me. To me yesterday, he didn't really look up for it. Next week I wouldn't mind seeing a Showunmi/Trundle partnership from the off. I expect, though, Gary J will put Carle just off Trundle/Byfield - with Sproule back on the right. A new signing on the bench, maybe?

[Chivs]

And you're another one who confuses input with output.Byfield didn't have an assist or a goal.That's why he's in the side and, whilst he does it off the bench, his record when he starts and his partnership with Trundle doesn't work.That's why GJ's trying to sign a striker or two

You're another one who confuses output with outcome.

I can't believe you are so naive as to believe a forward's output can only be measured in assists and goals.

The very best forward's have a knack of being great defenders. Look at the difference between Rooney and Berbatov who is second rate at best (despite all his output) hence the reason he plays for Tottenham. Rooney never stops chasing down defenders whereas Berbatov usually has his shoulders raised in a shrug when he should be closing down centre halves.

The reason we won 1-0 was because of the workrate (output) of McIndoe and Byfield for 70-odd minutes. Incidentally, we really started to look nervous when they went off. And you want to rate Basso better because he made one finger tip save. Odd.

Perhaps, at the next game, you should stop looking at individuals with one or two defined goals (pun intended) and start thinking about their role in the team.

I'd be interested in your ratings if you took this approach.

[Bristol Boy]

Knowledge of BC? What a geek u r. Dam I don't believe I've taken the BCFC test yet. Can u tell me if u can do a distance learning package or is it a full time course?

I think you should meet someone before calling them a geek but that would probably mean watching a few more games

still it's just one persons view.

Correct and who said it was meant to be representative-although how 55 votes out of 15,500 people who watched the game isn't a great deal better-always assuming they attended which sn't always the case with people on Internet Forums.

if you look at the other ratings your get a bigger picture of what most people think?

"Most people?"-55 Votes out of 15,500 :noexpression:

http://www.clubfanzine.com/bristol_city/showNews.php?id=8080

based on 55 votes at time of posting, I'd think most would agree that Johnson/Elliott and Vasko were our best performers yesterday

Are you and the stepfords on commision OMT-That's a couple of weeks on the spin now and it's getting a bit obvious.

You're another one who confuses output with outcome.

I can't believe you are so naive as to believe a forward's output can only be measured in assists and goals.

Trundle & Byfield have played together now on 7 occassions from the start-W1 D4 L2 No Goals-Outcome/Output call it what you want it ain't pretty, prolific or productive and that's why GJ's out looking for a striker or two.

The very best forward's have a knack of being great defenders.

Defending starts from the front and Ian Rush was perhaps the best example-However, that is a plus, not the prime requirement and goals & assists are the key factors on which these players are finally judged.The first stat you'll ever read on any striker will be goals & games.In terms of commitment, you'll see that I've rated the team as 8/10-That includes Byfield & Trundle, however, their contribution in the final third was poor.

Look at the difference between Rooney and Berbatov who is second rate at best (despite all his output) hence the reason he plays for Tottenham. Rooney never stops chasing down defenders whereas Berbatov usually has his shoulders raised in a shrug when he should be closing down centre halves.

Rooney is a world class player although his injury record (He's broken his foot three times, for example) means that he is either unfit or not quite fit or suspended on many key occassions (Croatia?) for both club & country.Berbatov is a prima donna, but is also a superb player and you are deluded if you think he's second rate.Attitude is very important but it will never replace talent & ability.

The reason we won 1-0 was because of the workrate (output) of McIndoe and Byfield for 70-odd minutes.

The reason we won 1-0 was due to a decent first half performance and a weak punch from their keeper falling to Elliott who finished very well.McIndoe tore around the park, closed down and did the scruffy stuff, but where was the final ball or flashing shots?

Where we the headers ala Sheff Utd & Norwich?? In the second half we were well second best and lost control of the midfield for most of it.We defended well and threw bodies on the line giving Basso only one brilliant save to make, which he did.

We tried hard up front but we lackd the cleverness & quality in the final third and we've said that to often this season.

Incidentally, we really started to look nervous when they went off. And you want to rate Basso better because he made one finger tip save. Odd.

That save in itself, earned us two extra points and it wasn't just for that.His overall display of keeping and handling crosses was a major part of a far better defensive display, even without Fontaine who's omission suprised me.

Perhaps, at the next game, you should stop looking at individuals with one or two defined goals (pun intended) and start thinking about their role in the team.

The key (not sole) role of our strikers is to score & create goals, as is the wingers.All the defending and tracking back is very important but isn't a goal (no pun intended) in itself.-Now that won't help if the rest of the team doesn't perform, however, in our case they are.Goal threat and quality is the reason that we are second as opposed to top and we don't know how important goal difference may be at the send of the season

I'd be interested in your ratings if you took this approach.

They'd be no different and that's why there are team ratings for things like commitment/passing etc and individual ratings for the players.Those ratings cover the entire 90 minutes plus injury time.

[Chivs]

Berbatov is a prima donna, but is also a superb player..

Those two statements are contradictory.

I genuinely would not have Berbatov in the Bristol City team but then I'm a fan of the Gary Johnson way.

In a related way, if we sign a striker this January, I will be deeply upset if it is someone I have heard of!

[Henry]

I think you should meet someone before calling them a geek but that would probably mean watching a few more games

Are you and the stepfords on commision OMT-That's a couple of weeks on the spin now and it's getting a bit obvious.

So are you saying, unless a striker scores or sets up a goal, they can never get above a 7? :noexpression:

[GeoTheCiderHead]

Why?

Because I thought he played better than a 5 out of 10. Why else d### head?

[Liverpool 0 Bristol City 1]

Those two statements are contradictory.

I genuinely would not have Berbatov in the Bristol City team but then I'm a fan of the Gary Johnson way.

In a related way, if we sign a striker this January, I will be deeply upset if it is someone I have heard of!

Luckily for us you arent in charge.

[edson]

if you look at the other ratings your get a bigger picture of what most people think?

"Most people?"-55 Votes out of 15,500

I think the point was, a poll of 70 odd people, as it is now, gives a more representative sample of the overall view of how fans rated the players, rather than the ratings of one person.

Though, obviously, that doesn't make them definitive or yours any less valid. Everyone can only call it as they see it.

I've no idea about statistics, so what's required to be a true representative sample in a group of 15,500 people, I don't know.

[Bristol Boy]

Those two statements are contradictory.

No they're not

I genuinely would not have Berbatov in the Bristol City team but then I'm a fan of the Gary Johnson way.

If you offered Berbatov to GJ he'd bite your arm off up to your neck-Not that it's likely-however, if you prefer Trundle to Berbatov, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

In a related way, if we sign a striker this January, I will be deeply upset if it is someone I have heard of!

I wouldn't be at all upset if we signed Earnshaw & James Beattie, heard of them?

Why?

Because I thought he played better than a 5 out of 10. Why else d### head?

I just wondered WHY you thought he was better-For example, what did he do to earn additional marks and why you think he was as good as or better than Elliott.

If it's a bit to difficult, I understand, however, it's just interesting to gauge the different reasons people rate a players display.

Cut out the d###**** remarks.

[Bristol Boy]

I think the point was, a poll of 70 odd people, as it is now, gives a more representative sample of the overall view of how fans rated the players, rather than the ratings of one person.

Though, obviously, that doesn't make them definitive or yours any less valid. Everyone can only call it as they see it.

I've no idea about statistics, so what's required to be a true representative sample in a group of 15,500 people, I don't know.

My point was that it isn't "most people" and I've never tried to speak for most people or say that the R&R was representative-It's my view and it engenders debate which is good......well, according to some people!

[Bristol Boy]

So are you saying, unless a striker scores or sets up a goal, they can never get above a 7? :noexpression:

No need to paraphrase things or over simplify and I won't paint myself into any corners.

The reason our manager is trying to sign at least one striker ahead of the deadline is that our strikers are not performing.Now, people can talk all they want about work rate but without goals & assists, any striker will struggle to hold down a regular starting place and that's just what's happened at BCFC this season.Brooker aside the rest have been given a fair crack of the whip and, apart from Byfields impact appearances, it hasn't come off for them.It's just as likely that ES will start at QPR next week if we go one up top although, God willing we'll have at least one new striker in by then.

[old_man_terry]

still it's just one persons view.

Correct and who said it was meant to be representative-although how 55 votes out of 15,500 people who watched the game isn't a great deal better-always assuming they attended which sn't always the case with people on Internet Forums.

point was that towards you, it was just one persons' view of the ratings, much like the evening post ratings are just generally one fans' view and how netcentre's reports are just one person's view, obviously only 55 out of 15,500 isn't a full view, but it is a better view of how fans rated the players, rather than the ratings of one person.

if you look at the other ratings your get a bigger picture of what most people think?

"Most people?"-55 Votes out of 15,500 noexpression.gif

as above, using the term "most people" was probably the wrong words, but in terms of the amount of people that post regularly on the forums it's a good view of what people on here think, as every though with ANYTHING on this forum, it's just a small minority of the overall fan base's view.

http://www.clubfanzine.com/bristol_city/showNews.php?id=8080

based on 55 votes at time of posting, I'd think most would agree that Johnson/Elliott and Vasko were our best performers yesterday

Are you and the stepfords on commision OMT-That's a couple of weeks on the spin now and it's getting a bit obvious.

ok? I'm guessing that your just going down the ashtonyate view point of anyone who disagree's with you is a "happy clappy" or a "stepford"

think you need to read the WDP article from yesterday, it's people such as yourself and your "know it all" view point that he possibly doesn't like, can't see why?

[edson]

My point was that it isn't "most people" and I've never tried to speak for most people or say that the R&R was representative-It's my view and it engenders debate which is good......well, according to some people!

Yes, I realise that.

I don't think he said it was most people, he said it gave a better picture of what most people think. Or, at least, asked the question if it did that.

[Alex_BCFC]

Those two statements are contradictory.

I genuinely would not have Berbatov in the Bristol City team but then I'm a fan of the Gary Johnson way.

Really?!

We are struggling to score with our three fit strikers and you would turn down a very good Prem player! Sure he wouldn't work hard, but when he wouldn't need to as he would be the best player in the league by miles.

I can see what BB means. Berbatov is a class player when he has the ball at his feet but his lack of work rate and the way he wears that headband makes him a prima donna.

[GeoTheCiderHead]

I just wondered WHY you thought he was better-For example, what did he do to earn additional marks and why you think he was as good as or better than Elliott.

If it's a bit to difficult, I understand, however, it's just interesting to gauge the different reasons people rate a players display.

Because he worked his balls off, looked a constant threat when attacking, helped bring other players into the game and overall did well. Just because he didnt score or make a majestic 48 yard pass to help set up a goal doesnt mean that he had a poor game and no way constitues a 5.

Cut out the d###**** remarks.

Why?

[Henry]

No need to paraphrase things or over simplify and I won't paint myself into any corners.

The reason our manager is trying to sign at least one striker ahead of the deadline is that our strikers are not performing.Now, people can talk all they want about work rate but without goals & assists, any striker will struggle to hold down a regular starting place and that's just what's happened at BCFC this season.Brooker aside the rest have been given a fair crack of the whip and, apart from Byfields impact appearances, it hasn't come off for them.It's just as likely that ES will start at QPR next week if we go one up top although, God willing we'll have at least one new striker in by then.

Just a simple question BB.

My view is, Rooney could do all the chasing down possible, show lots of skill, play lots of one-twos and through balls, hit crosses in and Tevez miss them all and hit 3 30 yard screamers and hit woodwork. But in your eyes would he still get a 7 because he didnt score or assist? That doesnt seem very fair IMO if thats what you think.

[gaz897]

Bristol Boy, you havent got a clue how many games I attend , and it makes no difference anyway. Do me a favour and read a good book. May I recommend ''Tim Lovejoy on Football'' That will give you an insite to the real football fan and not some self proclaimed ''Jimmy Hill'' which is obvious who u think you are!

enjoy.

[Chivs]

Luckily for us you arent in charge.

How do you know?

You clearly haven't been following my agenda.

Big head prima donnas with attitude do not a team player make. Football is all about team work.

[Bristol Boy]

Yes, I realise that.

I don't think he said it was most people, he said it gave a better picture of what most people think. Or, at least, asked the question if it did that.

OMT "if you look at the other ratings your get a bigger picture of what most people think?