The Eu

[Barrs Court Red]

Apart from cheap slave labour, can anyone prove to me it has any benifit to the UK?

[Nibor]

Yeah. Being a member of the EU increases the trade we do with Europe.

Doing more trade with Europe leaves us less exposed to the yank economy being screwed up by whichever oil company backed ultra conservative bible bashing muppet the idiots in that country allow to buy the presidency. The upshot is that it means Bush can't ruin our economy.

Besides, if we weren't in the EU we might not have as many Poles and Hungarians driving buses and serving in McDonald's here, so we'd have to import far more expensive Indians to do the jobs our work shy dole scroungers won't.

As a general principle it's always better to be in the club having a say than outside it having a whine.

[Barrs Court Red]

Interesting, you pick up the very points that the EU was supposed to be in first place, a common trading block.

Norway has the highest GDP in the world untill 2006, when it was overtaken by another non member, Iceland.

[Mr Mosquito]

Interesting, you pick up the very points that the EU was supposed to be in first place, a common trading block.

Norway has the highest GDP in the world untill 2006, when it was overtaken by another non member, Iceland.

....and Switzerland - another super rich European country that's not a member of the EU.

I reckon we should join the Russian federation trading bloc - would give England access to cheap oil and Gas and diamonds for our women. Also, that way missiles can be pointed at Brussels from England as well as from Russia.

The EU sucks, clickety click on the URL below......

http://www.eutruth.org.uk/

[Nibor]

I reckon we should join the Russian federation trading bloc - would give England access to cheap oil and Gas and diamonds for our women. Also, that way missiles can be pointed at Brussels from England as well as from Russia.

Yeah, and then it will be much easier for the Russian government to murder people with radiation poisoning on British soil.

Looking forward to seeing another thread head off into cloud cuckoo land though I must say.

[kevinmabbuttshair]

Get out of the EU and join the North American Union, always had more in common with the US and Canada anyway, screw europe and it's bureaucratic gravy train. Anything that lets in the like of Peter Mandelson has got to be a bad and corrupt surley?

[fka dagest]

Yeah, and then it will be much easier for the Russian government to murder people with radiation poisoning on British soil.

Looking forward to seeing another thread head off into cloud cuckoo land though I must say.

When and why would the Russian govt do that?

Makes no difference to me whether I'm ruled by faceless bureaucrats in London or Brussels. They all follow the same programme - make the "workers" support the vast hordes of non-workers (at the top and bottom).

[Nibor]

Get out of the EU and join the North American Union, always had more in common with the US and Canada anyway, screw europe and it's bureaucratic gravy train. Anything that lets in the like of Peter Mandelson has got to be a bad and corrupt surley?

Good god no. The US is a complete shambles of a country, just because they stole our language and ruined it doesn't mean we have anything in common with them. What do we have in common with gun toting rednecks carrying a massive obesity problem who believe in 6 litre cars that handle like boats and Jerry Springer?

I've been to both the US and Canada several times and more than half the countries in the EU and we have far more in common with other Europeans despite the language barrier than we do with yanks.

Besides, yanks can't drink for shit.

When and why would the Russian govt do that?

You missed the whole Litvinenko thing?

Makes no difference to me whether I'm ruled by faceless bureaucrats in London or Brussels. They all follow the same programme - make the "workers" support the vast hordes of non-workers (at the top and bottom).

Same programme no doubt but it just seems to me that the vast hordes of non workers will be slightly bigger outside the EU than in it.

[Mr Mosquito]

Good god no. The US is a complete shambles of a country, just because they stole our language and ruined it doesn't mean we have anything in common with them. What do we have in common with gun toting rednecks carrying a massive obesity problem who believe in 6 litre cars that handle like boats and Jerry Springer?

Besides, yanks can't drink for shit.

The USA is not a shambles of a country, at least not in Maryland and Pennsylvania were I have relatives. For all the faults of the USA it's still one of the best countries on Earth to live if you're prepared to work hard.

The US Constitution and Bill of Rights are something most ordinary people in this country can only dream of under our repressive Toff led Royalist EU loving regime.....they guarantee......the freedoms of speech, press, and religion; the right to keep and bear arms; the freedom of assembly; the freedom to petition; and the rights to be free of unreasonable search and seizure; cruel and unusual punishment; and compelled self-incrimination.

Plus, be assured, I've got quite a few American relatives that can drink most bods under the table.

[Mr Mosquito]

Yeah. Being a member of the EU increases the trade we do with Europe.

Doing more trade with Europe leaves us less exposed to the yank economy being screwed up by whichever oil company backed ultra conservative bible bashing muppet the idiots in that country allow to buy the presidency. The upshot is that it means Bush can't ruin our economy.

Besides, if we weren't in the EU we might not have as many Poles and Hungarians driving buses and serving in McDonald's here, so we'd have to import far more expensive Indians to do the jobs our work shy dole scroungers won't.

As a general principle it's always better to be in the club having a say than outside it having a whine.

We lose £45 billion per annum trading with the EU !!!!!! Before we joined the EU we broke even on our balance of trade with the EU. Now, according to the Treasury Pink Book, we lose £45 billion on our foreign exchange with the EU. This was yet another bare faced lie by our politicians - they said the EU would be good for trade. It has been a disaster.

The EU took control of our borders with the 1997 Amsterdam Treaty, and have let 10 million immigrants in. Nearly 3 million last year alone: 1.3 million of them were Polish according to the Government. In real terms immigration has halved the wages for the poorest English workers, more of whom are unemployed now than in 15 years. At the same time over 100,000 work shy influential Toffs are bribed with £100,000 - £300,000 salaries to do little more than smooth the way for the EU's domination in this country.

The EU sucks....

http://www.eutruth.org.uk/eu200bn.htm

[fka dagest]

You missed the whole Litvinenko thing?

It's a fair point although, I'm not sure any of us know precisely what happened. However, I imagine this sort of business goes on amongst all govts. Personally speaking. I feel the death of Iraq whistle-blower Dr David Kelly has always had a whiff of contract killing about it.

I agree with you about the US though, I really don't see the basis for the special relationship. We've always been part of Europe and influenced by what happens in Europe. The English, Scottish. Welsh etc are Europeans. Although, I like some aspects of US culture, on the whole I find it a scary place. Some of the people who live there appear to be some of the miseducated, ill-informed people on the planet. The US and its excesses is a bad advert for rampant capitalism.

Same programme no doubt but it just seems to me that the vast hordes of non workers will be slightly bigger outside the EU than in it.

I guess it's pretty impossible to say, I guess high unemployment rates in other countries will naturally bring up the percentage of the unproductive. But I don't have that sort of info at hand. I think it's also only fair to remember that many Europeans want to work in their particular country but the employment opportunities just don't exist - hence many of them coming here.

For all the faults of the USA it's still one of the best countries on Earth to live if you're prepared to work hard.

Surprised to hear that from you Gobbers, sounds like you've swallowed the whole bourgeois ethos.

[Nibor]

We lose £45 billion per annum trading with the EU !!!!!! Before we joined the EU we broke even on our balance of trade with the EU. Now, according to the Treasury Pink Book, we lose £45 billion on our foreign exchange with the EU. This was yet another bare faced lie by our politicians - they said the EU would be good for trade. It has been a disaster.

The EU took control of our borders with the 1997 Amsterdam Treaty, and have let 10 million immigrants in. Nearly 3 million last year alone: 1.3 million of them were Polish according to the Government. In real terms immigration has halved the wages for the poorest English workers, more of whom are unemployed now than in 15 years. At the same time over 100,000 work shy influential Toffs are bribed with £100,000 - £300,000 salaries to do little more than smooth the way for the EU's domination in this country.

The EU sucks....

http://www.eutruth.org.uk/eu200bn.htm

10 million immigrants and losing £45bn?

That's just complete and utter bullshit, it's fiction.

At least find some propaganda that isn't so obviously b***ocks.

[Eddie Hitler]

We joined it for trade and as long as you pass the relevant product legislation you can now trade freely with it. As was already pointed out, Switzerland, Norway & Iceland do this very nicely.

So the main reason for joining evaporates. Why stay in and pay billions for the privilege?

[Mr Mosquito]

Surprised to hear that from you Gobbers, sounds like you've swallowed the whole bourgeois ethos.

Yep, I've swallowed the whole American bourgeois ethos hook, line and sinker. The USA is a country where, if born there, you could become head of state (President) or mega corporate boss if you're lucky and work hard. You'll never be head of state in this country unless, of course, you're from a German aristocratic background. The 'glass-ceiling' of this country's rigid class structure will also stop an ordinary bod getting to be a corporate mega boss. There's also the Russian example of a poor Georgian lad who worked hard (robbing bourgeois banks) and studied hard to become leader of the USSR to help save the world from German NAZI domination. I believe in work ethic.

[Mr Mosquito]

10 million immigrants and losing £45bn?

That's just complete and utter bullshit, it's fiction.

At least find some propaganda that isn't so obviously b***ocks.

I'd be more in favour of joining the Russian federation for cheap oil and gas that we need for our economy - as I've already mentioned. Why can't we trade freely with the world as we used to pre-1973? Why do we have to feather the nests of overpaid lying politicians with big fat plutocrat jobs in the EU? Stuff the EU - it's bollux and I want a referendum on coming out of this EU shite.

Let's have a referendum on EU membership - let the people decide.

[fka dagest]

Yep, I've swallowed the whole American bourgeois ethos hook, line and sinker. The USA is a country where, if born there, you could become head of state (President) or mega corporate boss if you're lucky and work hard. You'll never be head of state in this country unless, of course, you're from a German aristocratic background. The 'glass-ceiling' of this country's rigid class structure will also stop an ordinary bod getting to be a corporate mega boss. There's also the Russian example of a poor Georgian lad who worked hard (robbing bourgeois banks) and studied hard to become leader of the USSR to help save the world from German NAZI domination. I believe in work ethic.

Blimey you're a mish-mash of ideologies aren't you? Avid Class War follower subscribes to American Dream!

Personally I believe that many of today's revolutionaries are tomorrow's statesmen. You've only got to look at Blair, Straw, Lenin and a great long list of others to see that. In my opinion any social hierarchy will always be abused by the power hungry for their own ends. This appears to be the case in every country regardless of superficial labels. I can't honestly believe you think the US is any different. If you look at the recent history of US politics it is dominated by Patrician families like the Kennedys Bushts and Clintons. Is it really any different from the class system of this country? Besides when I posted that article about the lack of social mobility in the UK and the US you thought it was great. I'm confused.

[Mr Mosquito]

Blimey you're a mish-mash of ideologies aren't you? Avid Class War follower subscribes to American Dream!

Personally I believe that many of today's revolutionaries are tomorrow's statesmen. You've only got to look at Blair, Straw, Lenin and a great long list of others to see that. In my opinion any social hierarchy will always be abused by the power hungry for their own ends. This appears to be the case in every country regardless of superficial labels. I can't honestly believe you think the US is any different. If you look at the recent history of US politics it is dominated by Patrician families like the Kennedys Bushts and Clintons. Is it really any different from the class system of this country? Besides when I posted that article about the lack of social mobility in the UK and the US you thought it was great. I'm confused.

I've made an analysis and evaluation of many ideologies to form my own normative judgement.

I read an article on Arnold Schwarzenegger recently, from unknown bodybuilder in Austria to Governor of California USA. The American dream personified - not everyone can make that kind of upward social mobility as an immigrant in the States but it's more than possible with commitment, effort and a bit of luck and Schwarzenegger's the proof.

[bucksred]

Good god no. The US is a complete shambles of a country, just because they stole our language and ruined it doesn't mean we have anything in common with them. What do we have in common with gun toting rednecks carrying a massive obesity problem who believe in 6 litre cars that handle like boats and Jerry Springer?

I've been to both the US and Canada several times and more than half the countries in the EU and we have far more in common with other Europeans despite the language barrier than we do with yanks.

which European countries would that be then Nibor? If their politicians are anything to go by, not much in common with them at all. Personally I'd say stuff the EU in particular, and the US, stick with Auz NZ and Canada. There is common ground with them.

[bucksred]

Yep, I've swallowed the whole American bourgeois ethos hook, line and sinker. The USA is a country where, if born there, you could become head of state (President) or mega corporate boss if you're lucky and work hard. You'll never be head of state in this country unless, of course, you're from a German aristocratic background. The 'glass-ceiling' of this country's rigid class structure will also stop an ordinary bod getting to be a corporate mega boss. There's also the Russian example of a poor Georgian lad who worked hard (robbing bourgeois banks) and studied hard to become leader of the USSR to help save the world from German NAZI domination. I believe in work ethic.

Alan Sugar? Gerald Ratner? the wide boys in Essex?The Glass ceiling is there if you want it to be. Immigrants don't seem to let it bother them.

[Mr Mosquito]

Personally I'd say stuff the EU in particular, and the US, stick with Auz NZ and Canada. There is common ground with them.

I still reckon we've got more in common with the USA than the EU. We're also on the same economic cycle as the USA. We've also got more common ground with the English speaking Caribbean - especially the Bahamas, English speaking India, and parts of English speaking Africa than the EU.

[bucksred]

I totally agree with you bucksred, add to that list the English speaking Caribbean - especially the Bahamas, English speaking India, and parts of English speaking Africa as well.

I'm all for that throw the Afrikaners out of SA and its one hell of an improvement Gobbers!

[fka dagest]

I read an article on Arnold Schwarzenegger recently, from unknown bodybuilder in Austria to Governor of California USA. The American dream personified - not everyone can make that kind of upward social mobility as an immigrant in the States but it's more than possible with commitment, effort and a bit of luck and Schwarzenegger's the proof.

Hmm, the ascendancy of that block-head would in mind be proof for the need of a stronger class system, not a weaker one.

[Mr Mosquito]

I'm all for that throw the Afrikaners out of SA and its one hell of an improvement Gobbers!

I totally agreed with you until I realized you'd written 'stuff the USA'. For all the lunacy of their current foreign policy adventures I'd rather them on our side than against us. There's a lot of real hatred for France in the States at present - not sure exactly why.

[Mr Mosquito]

Hmm, the ascendancy of that block-head would in mind be proof for the need of a stronger class system, not a weaker one.

Wow has he got a work ethic though !!!!! Built himself up to be Mr Universe, then got an Economics degree, married into the Kennedy Clan and now he's Governor of California. :noexpression:

The poor lad from Georgia makes the big time. Worth reading up on Uncle Joe Stalin - very impressive........

[bucksred]

I totally agreed with you until I realized you'd written 'stuff the USA'. For all the lunacy of their current foreign policy adventures I'd rather them on our side than against us. There's a lot of real hatred for France in the States at present - not sure exactly why.

I don't want to get closer to the USA, we're a junior party in the alliance, and I have seen that, got the T Shirt, the smaller country always gets fked over. We did by those "nice Afrikaners in SA to keep their precious "Apartheid " for a whole ten years longer.

Got no beef wi' Yanks, as people they are some of the most generous on Earth. some of their habits are very strange. their troops are extremley trigger happy, and they do vote for the occasional village idiot, but hey, look at the rest of the worlds "elected" representitives. I like the fact you can start with sod all, and provided youre born in the USA, you can do any damn thing going, including being president. Pity Arnie wasnt, reckon he'd make a good fist of the job. done well as Governor of California. and I love a hell of a lot of Yank music too, and the bikes aint too shabby, nor is bourbon. and I agree with about having them on our side.

The hatred for France (and to a lesser degree Germany) comes from those two countries chickens hit politicians weaseling out of supporting the US, particularly in Afghanistan. Think the Septics have got the message about Iraq now. but the backpedalling gets on the average Septics t its.

[Mr Mosquito]

I don't want to get closer to the USA, we're a junior party in the alliance, and I have seen that, got the T Shirt, the smaller country always gets fked over. We did by those "nice Afrikaners in SA to keep their precious "Apartheid " for a whole ten years longer.

Got no beef wi' Yanks, as people they are some of the most generous on Earth. some of their habits are very strange. their troops are extremley trigger happy, and they do vote for the occasional village idiot, but hey, look at the rest of the worlds "elected" representitives. I like the fact you can start with sod all, and provided youre born in the USA, you can do any damn thing going, including being president. Pity Arnie wasnt, reckon he'd make a good fist of the job. done well as Governor of California. and I love a hell of a lot of Yank music too, and the bikes aint too shabby, nor is bourbon. and I agree with about having them on our side.

The hatred for France (and to a lesser degree Germany) comes from those two countries chickens hit politicians weaseling out of supporting the US, particularly in Afghanistan. Think the Septics have got the message about Iraq now. but the backpedalling gets on the average Septics t its.

I'm sure fka dagest would love the States. For me the United States is Levi jeans, cheap US dollars, Harleys, music, brash culture and they speak English. The EU is shite weather like our own, expensive Euros and languages I don't understand.

[bucksred]

I'm sure fka dagest would love the States. For me the United States is Levi jeans, cheap US dollars, Harleys, music, brash culture and they speak English. The EU is shite weather like our own, expensive Euros and languages I don't understand.

spot on Gobbers, although I do understand and speak some German, from my younger days on the p iss in the Forces out there Weather in the Northern US where my rellys live is cold, wet and snowy in the winter, but beautiful sunshine all summer. and hurricanes. and tornadoes too. :noexpression: F

orgot their clothes are cheap, and well made. Also love the big Yank cars too. You woulda seen em in Cuba too. Cant beat travelling in style in a ford Fairlane, or Chevy Impala, a big Buick. riding a Harley on route 66. heaven.

[fka dagest]

I'm sure fka dagest would love the States. For me the United States is Levi jeans, cheap US dollars, Harleys, music, brash culture and they speak English. The EU is shite weather like our own, expensive Euros and languages I don't understand.

Now, now Gobbers, I love hip-hop esp, Gangstarr and Masta Ace, I've read American authors, I understand American Football and the US still produces a top-notch films in amongst all the rest of the crap it produces.

[Mr Mosquito]

Now, now Gobbers, I love hip-hop esp, Gangstarr and Masta Ace, I've read American authors, I understand American Football and the US still produces a top-notch films in amongst all the rest of the crap it produces.

The former USSR and the USA are often mocked and pilloried but who but a tyrant would argue with these declarations?.....

DECLARATION OF RIGHTS OF THE LABORING AND EXPLOITED PEOPLE....

CHAPTER ONE

1. Russia is declared to be a republic of the Soviets of Workers', Soldiers', and Peasants' Deputies. All the central and local power belongs to these soviets.

2. The Russian Soviet Republic is organized on the basis of a free union of free nations, as a federation of soviet national republics.

&

Written in 1787, ratified in 1788, and in operation since 1789, the United States Constitution is the world's longest surviving written charter of government. Its first three words "We The People" affirm that the government of the United States exists to serve its citizens.

[kevinmabbuttshair]

The former USSR and the USA are often mocked and pilloried but who but a tyrant would argue with these declarations?.....

DECLARATION OF RIGHTS OF THE LABORING AND EXPLOITED PEOPLE....

CHAPTER ONE

1. Russia is declared to be a republic of the Soviets of Workers', Soldiers', and Peasants' Deputies. All the central and local power belongs to these soviets.

2. The Russian Soviet Republic is organized on the basis of a free union of free nations, as a federation of soviet national republics.

&

Written in 1787, ratified in 1788, and in operation since 1789, the United States Constitution is the world's longest surviving written charter of government. Its first three words "We The People" affirm that the government of the United States exists to serve its citizens.

Shame all the USSR did was write wise words Gobbers then do the opposite, you must've read Animal Farm by the highly perceptive Mr Orwell, " All are equal, but some are more equal than others"