greenun Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 From paragraph 7 of today's Evening Post back page article, with the screaming title: Johnson blasts his City Team after Stoke setback BOTTLERS! (Here are paragraphs 6 and 7 to put the statement in context) City went into the contest knowing victory would return them to second place with with two games remaining, but failed miserably to take advantage of rivals Hull and Watford losing to Sheffield United and Crystal Palace respectively. And Johnson conceded his players had failed to cope with the pressure of the big occasion. "They're big boys now and there's nothing more Keith Millen (assistant manager) and myself can do," he said. "The players have got themselves into this position and they have to handle it. They let themselves down and they know how I feel." Amongst the many great quotes attributed to the late Brian Clough was: "Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes" With this in mind and the possibility of at least 4 more games this season, surely there's something that can be done to improve our players' mindset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 From paragraph 7 of today's Evening Post back page article, with the screaming title: Johnson blasts his City Team after Stoke setback BOTTLERS! (Here are paragraphs 6 and 7 to put the statement in context) City went into the contest knowing victory would return them to second place with with two games remaining, but failed miserably to take advantage of rivals Hull and Watford losing to Sheffield United and Crystal Palace respectively. And Johnson conceded his players had failed to cope with the pressure of the big occasion. "They're big boys now and there's nothing more Keith Millen (assistant manager) and myself can do," he said. "The players have got themselves into this position and they have to handle it. They let themselves down and they know how I feel." Amongst the many great quotes attributed to the laste Brian Clough was: "Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes" With this in mind and the possibility of at least 4 more games this season, surely there's something that can be done to improve our players' mindset? Gary Johnson and the players have done very very well to get us where we are, however.. While I agree with Johnson there is very little he can do now, he could have prepared for this situation in January........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Gary Johnson and the players have done very very well to get us where we are, however.. While I agree with Johnson there is very little he can do now, he could have prepared for this situation in January........ How? And then tell me who? And then prove how that would have made the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 How? And then tell me who? And then prove how that would have made the difference. fool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 fool So, you have no idea then. Why is it that the "Johnson made a massive mistake in January" brigade are unable or unwilling to justify what they say? Take yourself back to January, knowing then what you knew then, not what you know now, and detail exactly what should have happened, who we should have got and how they would have made a difference. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 So, you have no idea then. Why is it that the "Johnson made a massive mistake in January" brigade are unable or unwilling to justify what they say? Take yourself back to January, knowing then what you knew then, not what you know now, and detail exactly what should have happened, who we should have got and how they would have made a difference. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and to a degree you are using it to say our team could not be bettered! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Hindsight is a wonderful thing and to a degree you are using it to say our team could not be bettered! I didn't say that - at all, not in any sense. It clearly can otherwise we wouldn't be 4th. You're the one who said Johnson should have brought in players in January - I'm asking who and how they would have made it better. And as evidence for your argument, please feel free to name other clubs who were bettered by signings in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 So, you have no idea then. Why is it that the "Johnson made a massive mistake in January" brigade are unable or unwilling to justify what they say? Take yourself back to January, knowing then what you knew then, not what you know now, and detail exactly what should have happened, who we should have got and how they would have made a difference. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If you go back to threads dated in January, you will notice there was a hell of a lot of people on here, like myself, that said it was time to invest in quality! We needed a new midfielder, possibly a right winger, and a new striker....we have needed a new striker for the last 2 years!! GJ DID make a mistake by "sticking by the players that got him there". Thats all well and good, but their is no room in football for sentiment...if you want to kick on, you have to invest in quality. Earnshaw, Healy, Nugent....2 strikers who cant/couldnt get a team for their clubs, 2 are now heading back to our level....anyone of these strikers would have made a massive difference. don't say "prove it"...because its not possible, put their past records at this level have been consistantly excellent. GJ has been quality, and will keep taking this club forward....but he is learning himself at this level, and he made a mistake in January....unfortunately people make mistakes, its human nature. The problem is because of the fantastic job he has done...some people don't think you can say "GJ made a mistake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 And as evidence for your argument, please feel free to name other clubs who were bettered by signings in January. Um Hull and Stoke??? :noexpression: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 If you go back to threads dated in January, you will notice there was a hell of a lot of people on here, like myself, that said it was time to invest in quality! We needed a new midfielder, possibly a right winger, and a new striker....we have needed a new striker for the last 2 years!! GJ DID make a mistake by "sticking by the players that got him there". Thats all well and good, but their is no room in football for sentiment...if you want to kick on, you have to invest in quality. Earnshaw, Healy, Nugent....2 strikers who cant/couldnt get a team for their clubs, 2 are now heading back to our level....anyone of these strikers would have made a massive difference. don't say "prove it"...because its not possible, put their past records at this level have been consistantly excellent. GJ has been quality, and will keep taking this club forward....but he is learning himself at this level, and he made a mistake in January....unfortunately people make mistakes, its human nature. The problem is because of the fantastic job he has done...some people don't think you can say "GJ made a mistake" But there is no-one else better if you read some other peoples threads!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Um Hull and Stoke??? :noexpression: Which players did they take on in January? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 If you go back to threads dated in January, you will notice there was a hell of a lot of people on here, like myself, that said it was time to invest in quality! We needed a new midfielder, possibly a right winger, and a new striker....we have needed a new striker for the last 2 years!! GJ DID make a mistake by "sticking by the players that got him there". Thats all well and good, but their is no room in football for sentiment...if you want to kick on, you have to invest in quality. Earnshaw, Healy, Nugent....2 strikers who cant/couldnt get a team for their clubs, 2 are now heading back to our level....anyone of these strikers would have made a massive difference. don't say "prove it"...because its not possible, put their past records at this level have been consistantly excellent. GJ has been quality, and will keep taking this club forward....but he is learning himself at this level, and he made a mistake in January....unfortunately people make mistakes, its human nature. The problem is because of the fantastic job he has done...some people don't think you can say "GJ made a mistake" And you know we didn't try how? We know we made enquiries about Lita - do you really think he was the only one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 And as evidence for your argument, please feel free to name other clubs who were bettered by signings in January. West Brom, Stoke, Hull, Palace and Wolves off the top of my head bought players in January and are now higher in the division than they were at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Which players did they take on in January? Whether its November, January, February, March etc........it doesnt matter These teams bought in loan signings that have added quality to their squads. As weve been saying all season, the league table doesnt lie....they are above us because they are better then us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 And you know we didn't try how? We know we made enquiries about Lita - do you really think he was the only one? Players like David Healy and Earnshaw would have bit our hands off.....David Healy was even quoted a few months back as saying he may need to drop a division to kick start his season. The fact of the matter is, no one knows who, if anyone, we went for....the simple fact of the matter is, if we cant sell our club to players when we are top two in the Championship....what hope do we ever have of kicking on in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Players like David Healy and Earnshaw would have bit our hands off.....David Healy was even quoted a few months back as saying he may need to drop a division to kick start his season. The fact of the matter is, no one knows who, if anyone, we went for....the simple fact of the matter is, if we cant sell our club to players when we are top two in the Championship....what hope do we ever have of kicking on in the future? Well, Lita didn't bite our hands off and he wanted to drop a division for exactly the same reason as Healy. And anyway, that being the case, why haven't they gone anywhere else? Is it perhaps a case of paper talk, agents talk, say some stuff in the paper to firghten their current clubs? Maybe the wanted out but their clubs didn't want them to go. Getting players isn't like getting a pint of milk from ASDA - they want to have to come, their clubs want to let them come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Well, Lita didn't bite our hands off and he wanted to drop a division for exactly the same reason as Healy. And anyway, that being the case, why haven't they gone anywhere else? Is it perhaps a case of paper talk, agents talk, say some stuff in the paper to firghten their current clubs? Maybe the wanted out but their clubs didn't want them to go. Getting players isn't like getting a pint of milk from ASDA - they want to have to come, their clubs want to let them come. I think you will find a certain Andrew Cole didn't want to come to BCFC at first but the manager at the time went out and sold the club to him, the rest as they say is history!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 I think you will find a certain Andrew Cole didn't want to come to BCFC at first but the manager at the time went out and sold the club to him, the rest as they say is history!! Andy bloody Cole???? Different era, different pay scales and different expectations. Are you suggesting that GJ is incapable of selling the club? If so you really need to leave France - they're affecting your thought processes!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrizzle Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Surely, as manager, GJ must take responsibility for team performances, which recently suggest that it is him that has 'bottled it' rather than the players. He has been happy to accept the credit when the team have performed well, he should equally by able to take criticism when they don't. There is no doubt that this season has exceeded all of our expectations and that GJ has done a fantastic job to get us where we were. However, the first half on Saturday was purely down to his selection and tactics. We played right into Stoke's hands by trying to match them physically. Not for the first time in recent big matches, he has abandoned the passing game that took us to the automatic promotion places and has left out quality players that can create chances and affect a game. We are still in a good position, we have the players at the club to win the play offs if they are given a chance, but surely publicly slating them is going to do nothing for team morale at this important time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 West Brom, Stoke, Hull, Palace and Wolves off the top of my head bought players in January and are now higher in the division than they were at the time. Erm, but can't you add another club to the list of contenders who bought players in January. That being...Bristol City. When did we get Adebola? When did we get Carle? Clearly the strategy this year was to build on the success of last year, without disrupting the team that got us promotion last season. No one wanted a repeat of the distastrous summer under Davidson/Ward. But actually, while doing that, Johnson has achieved a lot of change. Along the way we have signed Trundle, Byfield, Sproule, McIndoe, Elliott, Adebola and Carle, and very often our front 6 this season has only included one player who was playing last season, Lee Johnson. Let's get away from this myth that Johnson has kept out of the transfer market. He's built our success on players who want to play for Bristol CIty. If you want to see thirteen loanees turn out for your side in one season, go and support Stoke. I'd rather see players who were committed to the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4eveREDDy Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Erm, but can't you add another club to the list of contenders who bought players in January. That being...Bristol City. When did we get Adebola? When did we get Carle? Clearly the strategy this year was to build on the success of last year, without disrupting the team that got us promotion last season. No one wanted a repeat of the distastrous summer under Davidson/Ward. But actually, while doing that, Johnson has achieved a lot of change. Along the way we have signed Trundle, Byfield, Sproule, McIndoe, Elliott, Adebola and Carle, and very often our front 6 this season has only included one player who was playing last season, Lee Johnson. Let's get away from this myth that Johnson has kept out of the transfer market. He's built our success on players who want to play for Bristol CIty. If you want to see thirteen loanees turn out for your side in one season, go and support Stoke. I'd rather see players who were committed to the cause. My thoughts exactly, just could not be arsed to post, btw, look at qpr, how many millions have they spent, are they forth, naaaa bet they would like to be though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon uk Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 My thoughts exactly, just could not be arsed to post, btw, look at qpr, how many millions have they spent, are they forth, naaaa bet they would like to be though clearly QPR only had some funds to spend from January onwards, they bought some good players, Agyemang and Vine are arguably better than we have available if they are fit, they tore us apart and they have done very well to climb the table to safety, and will be in with a shout of promotion next season. There are numerous people if you look back to January who we could have gotten in, but didnt:- The 2 above who went to QPR, Ishmael Miller, Ebanks-Blake, Healy, Maynard, Beckford. I could go back through and list all the names mentioned. On the last day of January I was pretty wound up about it, but after the weekend result, I don't seem to mind about our slump so much, I just hope we don't get caught in a slump at the start of next season. Si. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenun Posted April 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Gary Johnson and the players have done very very well to get us where we are, however.. While I agree with Johnson there is very little he can do now, he could have prepared for this situation in January........ Now I agree with you about January, but we've already exhausted that argument and need to look forward which is the purpose of this thread. Don't City employ a sports psychologist? If so, is that what Johnson is referring to when he says there is nothing more he can do with the players. If Gary believes that he and Keith can't do any more preparation then our prospects for promotion appear hopeless for the rest of this season. Should the players be able to motivate themselves? What's the answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whale Eye Beef Hooked Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 We could have brought a few players in in January and it could have had a real negative effect and we could be outside of the palyoffs now. Lets look at the positives for a change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Andy bloody Cole???? Different era, different pay scales and different expectations. Are you suggesting that GJ is incapable of selling the club? If so you really need to leave France - they're affecting your thought processes!! What the hell as different pay scales got to do with it? And for the record, yes I do think Johnson has difficulty in selling the club to potential players, especielly the experienced ones we could do with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon uk Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 We could have brought a few players in in January and it could have had a real negative effect and we could be outside of the palyoffs now. Lets look at the positives for a change in fairness our results couldnt have been much worse over the last 10 games though. The reason we are still so high in the table is that the other teams have also been dropping points all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 What the hell as different pay scales got to do with it? And for the record, yes I do think Johnson has difficulty in selling the club to potential players, especielly the experienced ones we could do with. Why do you think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Gary Johnson and the players have done very very well to get us where we are, however.. While I agree with Johnson there is very little he can do now, he could have prepared for this situation in January........ How about GJ and KM coaching the players to use the full width of the pitch, to beat the fullbacks, to pass and move, and to not hit long balls aimlessly up field? Can GJ motivate the players for the big games? I seem to remember us not turning up against the Gash either last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 How about GJ and KM coaching the players to use the full width of the pitch, to beat the fullbacks, to pass and move, and to not hit long balls aimlessly up field? Can GJ motivate the players for the big games? I seem to remember us not turning up against the Gash either last season. Yes, thank goodness the home games against Forest and Rotherham last year weren't big otherwise we would have been in real trouble! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Why do you think that? Because I aint seen one in our team yet!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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