bcfc_4_life Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Yes, thank goodness the home games against Forest and Rotherham last year weren't big otherwise we would have been in real trouble! So, do you agree cheese, that we don't play our normal passing game for the last 2 months instead for some reason we can't pass now we have to hoof it? Our play vs stoke for th 1st 60 mins was a shambles, why have we changed the way we play when we were so succesful when we passed it around instead of hoof hoof hooooooooof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Because I aint seen one in our team yet!! Ah yes, we only got the inexperienced Adebola in January. And that Trundle guy hasn't played much before this season. Still, I guess we were lucky plucking that McIndoe chappie from non-league obscurity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 So, do you agree cheese, that we don't play our normal passing game for the last 2 months instead for some reason we can't pass now we have to hoof it? Our play vs stoke for th 1st 60 mins was a shambles, why have we changed the way we play when we were so succesful when we passed it around instead of hoof hoof hooooooooof Yeah - we've been crap. Funny thing pressure - nobody wants the ball when the pressures on. Not everyone can handle it - no matter how good the manager or coaches may be. It's what makes the difference between winners and losers - ability comes second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Ah yes, we only got the inexperienced Adebola in January. And that Trundle guy hasn't played much before this season. Still, I guess we were lucky plucking that McIndoe chappie from non-league obscurity. With all due respect Adebola is a journeyman striker who has never played above this league, Trundle had never even played at this level before we signed him and McIndoe had one season at Wolves where he was not considered an automatic choice. So even with the straws you have just clutched we still don't have that experienced player(s) unlike all our promotion chasing rivals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketh2nd Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Now I agree with you about January, but we've already exhausted that argument and need to look forward which is the purpose of this thread. Don't City employ a sports psychologist? If so, is that what Johnson is referring to when he says there is nothing more he can do with the players. If Gary believes that he and Keith can't do any more preparation then our prospects for promotion appear hopeless for the rest of this season. Should the players be able to motivate themselves? What's the answer? Bad luck with this thread somehow people think is the best to moan or get their frustrations out, answering to your question. Yes it is quite daunting how that is put however this is just the media remeber, but for sure we've struggled this last bit of the season and we need every single member of the Bristol City Staff and players to motivate the players and themselves. Although I think the point GJ might be trying to put out to the players is we may have blown the automatics but it's for players to grab the play offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc_4_life Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Yeah - we've been crap. Funny thing pressure - nobody wants the ball when the pressures on. Not everyone can handle it - no matter how good the manager or coaches may be. It's what makes the difference between winners and losers - ability comes second. GJ made a mistake in the starting 11 for I way to defensive in a match we HAD TO WIN, we didn't have a chance in midfied mainly due the hoofs i mean how can anyone create something when we coudn't get the ball on the floor? I tell you what, it wasn't stoke who hoofed it, it was US and this is why we are losing we don't have the players to play the hoof which is why we were so succesful as a passing team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 With all due respect Adebola is a journeyman striker who has never played above this league, Trundle had never even played at this level before we signed him and McIndoe had one season at Wolves where he was not considered an automatic choice. So even with the straws you have just clutched we still don't have that experienced player(s) unlike all our promotion chasing rivals They don't. With the notable exception of the clubs who have been in the Prem and are still getting parachute payments to help with wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Should the players be able to motivate themselves? If a player can't motivate himself for games like saturday without the need for a sports physcologist then he shouldn't be playing league football, he should be playing on the downs. The only answer is to get better players who can motivate themselves at this level (usually experienced players/leaders) And don't forget we had a good go at bottling it last season, how many times did we have the chance to pull away and make things easy for ourselves but end up blowing it. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketh2nd Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 GJ made a mistake in the starting 11 for I way to defensive in a match we HAD TO WIN, we didn't have a chance in midfied mainly due the hoofs i mean how can anyone create something when we coudn't get the ball on the floor? I tell you what, it wasn't stoke who hoofed it, it was US and this is why we are losing we don't have the players to play the hoof which is why we were so succesful as a passing team. hmmm a good point although I mean except from sproule and possibly trundle who else would you have started? Byfield can score the odd goal and so was worth a try with a bit of pace he has left but really didn't work did it. TO the hoofing maybe reason GJ is so frustrated because maybe they'd been passing on the deck all week training them telling them how to play for saturday and they panic and start hoofing it can maybe see why he said they bottled it. Hence the second half after GJ half time rant most lightly and woke up a bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunningdalered Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 I NEVER want to read comments from a manager suggesting that there is nothing more they can do - end of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 They don't. With the notable exception of the clubs who have been in the Prem and are still getting parachute payments to help with wages. OK Lets start with Stoke then, Lawrence, Ameobi, Pearson, Delap, Bothroyd and Riggot are all experienced players who have played at the highest levels. Then Hull, Hughes, Barmby, Windass, Pederson and Fagen not to mention JJ who again are all experienced players who have played at the highest level. I wont do West Brom, as you said its not fair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 OK Lets start with Stoke then, Lawrence, Ameobi, Pearson, Delap, Bothroyd and Riggot are all experienced players who have played at the highest levels. Then Hull, Hughes, Barmby, Windass, Pederson and Fagen not to mention JJ who again are all experienced players who have played at the highest level. I wont do West Brom, as you said its not fair! Hmm, nearly as many as Charlton, Ipswich, Wolves, Southampton, Sheff Utd et al - didn't help them though did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Hmm, nearly as many as Charlton, Ipswich, Wolves, Southampton, Sheff Utd et al - didn't help them though did it. Careful, Wolves and Ipswich COULD still finish above us, I think we should just end this argument and agree to differ! I was obviously expecting too much when we were top of the league with 4 games to go and should have just been grateful for the ride as you appear to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Part of the problem is that we have hardly any players with Championship experience, look through the team on saturday: BASSO- nope ORR- nope CAREY- hardly McCOMBE- nope McALLISTER- nope ELLIOTT- hardly SKUSE- nope McINDOE- yes ADEBOLA- yes TRUNDLE- nope NOBLE- nope VASKO- nope Only 12 players mentioned as the other 2 never turned up but if you want to add them to the list: WILSON- nope BYFIELD- hardly So out of our matchday squad (14) they probably had around 150 championship games under their belts and Adebola counts for at least half of those. See the problem anyone?........it is called EXPERIENCE AT THIS LEVEL. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Part of the problem is that we have hardly any players with Championship experience, look through the team: BASSO- nope ORR- nope CAREY- hardly McCOMBE- nope McALLISTER- nope ELLIOTT- hardly SKUSE- nope McINDOE- yes ADEBOLA- yes TRUNDLE- nope NOBLE- nope VASKO- nope Only 12 players mentioned as the other 2 never turned up but if you want to add them to the list: WILSON- nope BYFIELD- hardly So out of our matchday squad (14) they probably had around 150 championship games under their belts and Adebola counts for at least half of those. See the problem anyone?...it is called EXPERIENCE. BCAGFC And those without experience have been some of our best performers. But anyway, that relative inexperience was not going to be addressed in one season and certainly not in January - we don't have the resources to have a rotating door policy. The experience of our players is being compared with teams that have been established in the CCC for a little while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Careful, Wolves and Ipswich COULD still finish above us, I think we should just end this argument and agree to differ! I was obviously expecting too much when we were top of the league with 4 games to go and should have just been grateful for the ride as you appear to be Yes I'm pleased - and have no reason not to be. No doubt when we were promoted there was probably a medium term plan that went along the lines of: 1. Consolidate 2. Challenge and maybe make the play-offs 3. If failing to make the prem via the play-offs then the following season be challenging and gain promotion automatically. So that's 3 seasons to make the prem. So far we're ahead of schedule. The important thing is that we build from this season and not plunge into a Colchester or Preston. And I can see no evidence to suggest that either SL or GJ would allow that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 IMO the spine of the team should have been strengthened in the summer with a CCC level CD and a CCC level CM player, we eventually got the CCC level STK (Adebola, he will get goals in given the service) in January. Experience is a must during the summer to add to 1 or 2 young Premier League loan stars. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 GJ made a mistake in the starting 11 for I way to defensive in a match we HAD TO WIN, we didn't have a chance in midfied mainly due the hoofs i mean how can anyone create something when we coudn't get the ball on the floor? I tell you what, it wasn't stoke who hoofed it, it was US and this is why we are losing we don't have the players to play the hoof which is why we were so succesful as a passing team. We were the better team for half the match, and most of the hoofing in the second half came from Stoke. If Bradley (or either of the others beside him) had equalised from the gilt-edged chance a few minutes after the goal, we might well have gone on to win. We didn't play well in the first half, admittedly, but that idea that we could have put out an attacking line-up and taken on Stoke at their own game is naive. From what I remember, we put out a pretty attacking line-up at Ipswich earlier in the season, and lost 6-0. We played Watford with only one up front, and won. On Saturday Johnson plays 4-4-2 and everyone accuses him of being negative. Johnson didn't make a mistake with the starting line-up. He picked the right team on paper and, I think, made the right changes when the players didn't deliver. Once the whistle goes, what more can the manager do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Yes I'm pleased - and have no reason not to be. No doubt when we were promoted there was probably a medium term plan that went along the lines of: 1. Consolidate 2. Challenge and maybe make the play-offs 3. If failing to make the prem via the play-offs then the following season be challenging and gain promotion automatically. So that's 3 seasons to make the prem. So far we're ahead of schedule. The important thing is that we build from this season and not plunge into a Colchester or Preston. And I can see no evidence to suggest that either SL or GJ would allow that to happen. Sometimes in life a surprise situation presents itself that you may never get the chance to take again so you have to do everything in your power to take it.....BCFC DIDN'T. Yes, we are nowhere near ready for the Premier League but as long as we didn't go overboard with wages etc then the 60m would have set the club up for life. Just look at WBA, never going to stay in the Premier League more than 1 or 2 seasons but the money they make being a yo-yo club continually sets them up for the next season. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc_4_life Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 We were the better team for half the match, and most of the hoofing in the second half came from Stoke. If Bradley (or either of the others beside him) had equalised from the gilt-edged chance a few minutes after the goal, we might well have gone on to win. We didn't play well in the first half, admittedly, but that idea that we could have put out an attacking line-up and taken on Stoke at their own game is naive. From what I remember, we put out a pretty attacking line-up at Ipswich earlier in the season, and lost 6-0. We played Watford with only one up front, and won. On Saturday Johnson plays 4-4-2 and everyone accuses him of being negative. Johnson didn't make a mistake with the starting line-up. He picked the right team on paper and, I think, made the right changes when the players didn't deliver. Once the whistle goes, what more can the manager do? We wasn't better for half the match, we played well for round 15ish mins, stoke could of had us around 4-0 in the 1st half. This game we NEEDED TO WIN, we lost anyway so why not start with a attackig team? i.e Basso Orr Carey Fonts Mcallister Sproule Elliot Mcindoe Trundle Dele Enoch? Okay maybe we would still of lost but atleast we would of gave it a good go, the fact we played wilson means he didn't want us to attack but try get them on the counter which won't work. We NEED to stop hoofing it, dropping Mccombe and bring in either fonts or vasko and play sproule although he may not be in form he is still more of a bloody threat then Wilson was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Sometimes in life a surprise situation presents itself that you may never get the chance to take again so you have to do everything in your power to take it.....BCFC DIDN'T. Yes, we are nowhere near ready for the Premier League but as long as we didn't go overboard with wages etc then the 60m would have set the club up for life. Just look at WBA, never going to stay in the Premier League more than 1 or 2 seasons but the money they make being a yo-yo club continually sets them up for the next season. BCAGFC Oh yes, unexpected opportunities happen all the time. I don't think you can say BCFC rejected the opportunity but maybe didn't feel able to take the risks that may have been necessary. Yes, we could have brought in half a dozen loanees in January or up until March anyway, and we could have brought in half a dozen other players as well. But then you're dealing with a new team that has to gel - and in the meantime, the players that ot you to where you are are thoroughly peed off. So you risk a poor mid-table finish or worse. I think it was a much better option to stick with what had worked so well up until 10 games ago and if the wheels come off, strengthen during the close season when everyone can come together during a good pre-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 I NEVER want to read comments from a manager suggesting that there is nothing more they can do - end of. But for all we know he could actually be doing something by making that statement. I'm no psychologist so I couldn't analyse it, and maybe he really is just giving up in desparation, but that strikes me as unlikely. A man as canny as Gary Johnson could be using the statement as a motivational tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC DREAMER Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 But for all we know he could actually be doing something by making that statement. I'm no psychologist so I couldn't analyse it, and maybe he really is just giving up in desparation, but that strikes me as unlikely. A man as canny as Gary Johnson could be using the statement as a motivational tool. Yeah there's some reverse psychology going on there. Hopefully it will be just the ticket and motivate the players to win these last two games, if we can do that it should give us some momentum, and give the fans something to feel positive about. This forum will be a different place, lets finish third! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwichrobin Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 in defence of gj, totally agree with his comments, sometimes players have to stand up and be counted hes shuffled the pack with what hes got and weve come up short. not so much talking about stoke but southampton away and plymouth at home when there was considerably less pressure on, some didnt want it. Probaby get murdered for this comment but its my opinion, brooker looked class as he really really wanted it, a few more with that attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Probaby get murdered for this comment but its my opinion, brooker looked class as he really really wanted it, a few more with that attitude. To be fair, Brooker's had a much shorter season than the others so you'd expect him to have alot more in the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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