Bristol Football

[Red-Robbo]

[Cider red]

This old argument crops up again. This city cant sustain two teams imo that's the main problem, not two poor/average at best ones anyhow. If we had historically had a successful team (or at least one that was in the top flight regularly) in Bristol the home gates would improve profoundly. Leeds are a supposedly big club with a rich history, their average attendance was between 20-22k last year. City and Rovers combined both having abysmal seasons in one and two divisions below respectively was around 18k. With Rovers looking like they are on the way out (could swing either way at the moment mind), a new build stadium, a manager who looks like he knows what he is trying to achieve and a board that is backing him, hopefully we can see some relative success.If tinpot clubs like Reading, Wigan and Blackpool can get to the premier league then there is no reason we can't in the not so distant future. Rovers downfall may be the catalyst for our success.

[Bris Red]

You can speak for youself Mr gashead. We are going in the right direction at long last, with a re-built stadium on the way and a pretty decent chance of getting back to the Championship this season so i would say we are certain doing our bit!

Its your shambles of a club letting the City down..

[handsofclay]

Reading, Wigan and Blackpool seem like mega cities compared to Glossop North End who are the smallest town to ever support a top flight club.

[spudski]

[WTFiGO!?!]

[Manon]

I do wonder what would happen if ever we made the prem. Lansdown, with his business going from strength to strength, we could suddenly find us amongst the richest up there.

It's a shame it didn't happen five-six years ago, before ffp he'd have been free to throw big bucks at it if he chose to (let's be honest, if he's willing to throw millions down the urinal on a poor champ side, he ain't gonna be pulling punches when in the bright lights of the prem), and we really could have* been truly catapulted into big players especially if ashton vale had come off.

As it is/was, our fate took us in another direction, one slightly more sober but somehow still seems more rosy.

As for the rovers, well, must we really talk about them...? As a whole city maybe we should all just pretend they never happened...

[Mahatma Coate]

1970. Four years later they went into liquidation, but a new club with the old name was formed in 1988. They were actually just Bradford, but added (Park Avenue) to avoid confusion with Bradford City.

So the horse punchers need to survive three and a bit seasons before going bust and the analogy is complete.

BTW, Bradford PA were called that as a league side, not sure if you meant they took the PA bit when they reformed.

[Bris Red]

I do wonder what would happen if ever we made the prem. Lansdown, with his business going from strength to strength, we could suddenly find us amongst the richest up there.

It's a shame it didn't happen five-six years ago, before ffp he'd have been free to throw big bucks at it if he chose to (let's be honest, if he's willing to throw millions down the urinal on a poor champ side, he ain't gonna be pulling punches when in the bright lights of the prem),

I think your being a little naive if you think Steve Lansdown would have gone around throwing away his own personal fortune had we of gone up. Now there's one thing pumping millions into an investment like Ashton Vale or the rebuild of Ashton Gate, but its another when it comes to trying to compete at the top tier. Dont get me wrong we would have spent but this whole conception of SL just dipping into his own pocket is as i said slightly naive, the man is not a fool..

[Manon]

No one said he is a fool (although there must be a screw working it's way loose after so many years with bcfc), but I wasn't talking about the stadium (s). He has already spent a small fortune on the whims of several managers. I would say it is more naive to assume he'd revert to a more pragmatic approach in the top flight. That's what he's in this for....we all are.

Despite his business acumen, I've seem that glint in his eye, seen the gambles. What's the point if being a billionaire if you're just gonna sit on it. He's getting on a bit now too.

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

Bristol I beleive has the highest rate of amateur players to population in country! A lot wot rather play football than watch city!

Coupled with a lot of other factors mismangment and so forth this is why we are where we are!

[WTFiGO!?!]

I think your being a little naive if you think Steve Lansdown would have gone around throwing away his own personal fortune had we of gone up. Now there's one thing pumping millions into an investment like Ashton Vale or the rebuild of Ashton Gate, but its another when it comes to trying to compete at the top tier. Dont get me wrong we would have spent but this whole conception of SL just dipping into his own pocket is as i said slightly naive, the man is not a fool..

Being in the top tier would've increased the clubs revenue beyond belief. Ashton Gate would've been sold out week in, week out an I surmise here that the bastarding council would've made it possible for us to move into an all singing and dancing new stadium.

A legacy would've been built amongst the new fans and their kids and we'd be in the sky finance loop. It would not be purely down to SL putting his hand in his pocket and if anything, SL deserves credit for not running off (as the city's degenerates would like us believe he'll do any time) but having another pop at getting us there.

How we convince a largely professional and geographically transient population to inherit City as their club, can only be done through a successful side. Not having Rovers about will help. We're grossly underachieving because City is not in the culture of a huge number of the city's inhabitants.

[spudski]

Right, let's simplify it.

Does the fact Manchester United, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Liverpool and Aston Villa making up the top teams, in terms of honours won, register with you?

If no, stop reading.

If yes, is the fact that all these clubs are firmly on the urban population belt and in the areas of traditional working class catchment areas of pure coincidence to you?

If yes, you really do firmly believe that it has been the structure alone within Bristol City that has kept us shit for 120 years?

I appreciate you're a footballing man but to not take into account further sociological issues in explaining why we're so piss poor, then I can not help you.

Don't be daft fella...of course back in 'the day' there was an influence. But the structure in those clubs got in place early in their history.

You cannot blame society in Bristol for 120 years of failure.

Ipswich and Norwich all seem to do better...how so?

Norwich have a cook in charge FFS.

Look at the teams above us for years and it has nothing to do with 'society'.

BCFC comes from a working class area...far bigger than many smaller teams above us.

Bristol hasn't always been 'middle class'.

It was just as much a working class area as Liverpool. They have their 'rich' areas too.

We have had no guidance from within for pretty much all our history.

 

For example...it's only been in the last couple of years that we've sorted some sort of scouting network out...how can that be for a professional Club of over 100 years. What has that to do with society?

[WTFiGO!?!]

You speak of two clubs, Norwich in particular, for which they are the only East Anglian club about. It's akin to taking Swindon and Cardiff clean out of the equation - not to mention the gas. They have waiting lists for ST's.

No denying City could've been run better but it would've been easier to do had the club a decent foundation, within the city's culture, to build upon.

For whatever reason, that is not there.

[spudski]

You speak of two clubs, Norwich in particular, for which they are the only East Anglian club about. It's akin to taking Swindon and Cardiff clean out of the equation - not to mention the gas. They have waiting lists for ST's.

No denying City could've been run better but it would've been easier to do had the club a decent foundation, within the city's culture, to build upon.

For whatever reason, that is not there.

You are going to have to explain to me how our 'culture' has influenced how our club has been run.

Norwich have Ipswich pretty much the same distance away as we do with Cardiff.

When you look at the likes of Bolton, Wigan, Blackburn, Burnley...you can see it's not about how many go to watch.

Look at Reading now...we should be like them. The same type of investor...owner...but we are not. They got their act together...and have installed a good structure for whoever manages the Club. We have only just got it.

All this mullarky about Bristol being 'middle class' and influencing BCFC is total bull...as is having a large amateur league...so has London. It's just an excuse to hide behind.

With SL's money and a proper structure we should be at least the same as Reading if not more.

[WTFiGO!?!]

You are going to have to explain to me how our 'culture' has influenced how our club has been run.

Norwich have Ipswich pretty much the same distance away as we do with Cardiff.

When you look at the likes of Bolton, Wigan, Blackburn, Burnley...you can see it's not about how many go to watch.

Look at Reading now...we should be like them. The same type of investor...owner...but we are not. They got their act together...and have installed a good structure for whoever manages the Club. We have only just got it.

All this mullarky about Bristol being 'middle class' and influencing BCFC is total bull...as is having a large amateur league...so has London. It's just an excuse to hide behind.

With SL's money and a proper structure we should be at least the same as Reading if not more.

Makes me think you think I'm saying we have been well run when we obviously have not.

Given the size of the catchment area, we have always been pitifully underachieving. That we only scrape together 12,000 is, imo, indicative of a 'cultural problem' here, inspite of continued mismanagement up to now. You also compare us to town clubs that have been well run, we are from a major city. Why, in your opinion, has Bristol not put a club on the footballing map on a regular basis thoughout the entire history of football? SL did it all? We have indeed been horribly mis-managed, always? Maybe there's a cultural indifference to football, here? Maybe?

[Red-Robbo]

[spudski]

I'm afraid I can't agree with your proposition that Bristol City FC just so happened to have divvies in charge for more than a century. Nor can I believe that genuine divvy owners - your Ashley's, Tan's, Glazer's etc didn't just destroy these amazing club "structures" of which you speak once they took over. Let's face it, they want clubs in their image.  Your face doesn't fit, you're out. Including successful managers!

 

Lets think about who actually runs virtually every club in the country. Local boys made good + (these days) a smattering of foreign criminals.  ;-)

 

Now I know that you like to paint Steve Lansdown as some sort of tyrannical prat, but he's actually a great example of a local boy made good. Made a billion and in a relative short space of time. Now you don't do that without being shrewd and a shrewd man knows to appoint capable people to take care of parts of an enterprise he himself doesn't deal with or isn't qualified to deal with. There have been quite a few missteps, and more bad luck, but I genuinely don't think City are worse run than most other clubs in professional football.In fact, I'd go as far as to say that as the son of someone who worked in professional football I know they aren't.

 

There are demographic reasons why Bristol football crowds have not attracted as high a percentage of Bristol's population as Liverpool football crowds (for instance). and as I pointed out, this applied even when City were a "successful" top flight club.

Fella. I think you've completely misunderstood what I mean by 'structure'.

Which now makes sense when we disagree so much.

The likes of Tan, Ashsley and the Glaziers wouldn't have the success they have, without that 'structure' being in place in the first place. They have just provided the money. There are people at those clubs that run it...properly. We just haven't had those 'footballing' people in place at this Club.

No matter how good SL's intentions are...and the money he's put into the Club...if the 'Structure' isn't their...then it wont work.

Look at a Club like Everton...they have that 'Structure'...footballing people in place and a large network. That's why they have been able to compete on a relatively small budget compared to others.

You seem to be close to SL....or you allude to this.

Ask him how many Scouts we had here 3 years ago...and before that.

Ask him who was in control of contracts.

Ask him if his staff knew who was doing what, and who was responsible for what.

Ask him if things just sort of change when each manager comes in...or is their a structure which they can adhere too.

Ask him whether Burt was doing the same job as he is now when SC came in, and whether Burt just 'fell into' what he is doing now.

.

What I am saying...is that there are no clear guidelines within this club...it maybe changing slowly... but it's been a nightmare.

This is why we have failed...no one has had a clue who is doing what...we just bumble along.

This maybe hearsay on my part...but all from City people, and people within the game and ex managers...for many many years.

[Miah Dennehy]

You are an embarrassment of a football club from top to bottom . Vile chairman , delude fan base. I understand why you are on here and not your own board,

 

 

. You must be very PROWED.

 

As prowed as you

[Red-Robbo]

Fella. I think you've completely misunderstood what I mean by 'structure'.

Which now makes sense when we disagree so much.

The likes of Tan, Ashsley and the Glaziers wouldn't have the success they have, without that 'structure' being in place in the first place. They have just provided the money. There are people at those clubs that run it...properly. We just haven't had those 'footballing' people in place at this Club.

No matter how good SL's intentions are...and the money he's put into the Club...if the 'Structure' isn't their...then it wont work.

Look at a Club like Everton...they have that 'Structure'...footballing people in place and a large network. That's why they have been able to compete on a relatively small budget compared to others.

You seem to be close to SL....or you allude to this.

Ask him how many Scouts we had here 3 years ago...and before that.

Ask him who was in control of contracts.

Ask him if his staff knew who was doing what, and who was responsible for what.

Ask him if things just sort of change when each manager comes in...or is their a structure which they can adhere too.

Ask him whether Burt was doing the same job as he is now when SC came in, and whether Burt just 'fell into' what he is doing now.

.

What I am saying...is that there are no clear guidelines within this club...it maybe changing slowly... but it's been a nightmare.

This is why we have failed...no one has had a clue who is doing what...we just bumble along.

This maybe hearsay on my part...but all from City people, and people within the game and ex managers...for many many years.

I do understand what you meant by structure and if you look at - say - Ashley's reign you will find that executives, scouts, coaches, all levels of club workers have been replaced, sacked or walked out because the guy interferes at all levels. Yet Newcastle still get big crowds. And would get bigger crowds than us if they were ever to find themselves in the same division. Why? The answer lies in demographics.

[Bris Red]

. Yet Newcastle still get big crowds. And would get bigger crowds than us if they were ever to find themselves in the same division. Why? The answer lies in demographics.

Newcastle used to get dire attendences in the 80s and part of the 90's..You dont have to go far back (1991) to see them averaging 16 k in the champ or in old money Division 2.

They then went on to have a sustained peroid of success, ok they won nothing but came bloody close to winning the league whenever that was 96 maybe?

For me lack of investment has been our problem over the years. Sustained decades of failure and general negative attitudes in the City towards local teams has then just passed down the generations who have then just thought fo0k City and Rovers ill suppport Arsenal Liverpool

Etc.

Personally any sort of sustained stint in the Premiership will see our sleeping fanbase awake and debates like this i honestly think will be a thing of the past. Its a shame it didnt happen in 08 but i am pretty certain our time in the top

Flight will come again, sooner than many think may i add..

[The Casual Connoisseur]

Right, let's simplify it.

Does the fact Manchester United, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Liverpool and Aston Villa making up the top teams, in terms of honours won, register with you?

If no, stop reading.

If yes, is the fact that all these clubs are firmly on the urban population belt and in the areas of traditional working class catchment areas of pure coincidence to you?

If yes, you really do firmly believe that it has been the structure alone within Bristol City that has kept us shit for 120 years?

I appreciate you're a footballing man but to not take into account further sociological issues in explaining why we're so piss poor, then I can not help you.

Arsenal: based in an extremely middle class area of London, highbury & highbury park, the area around let's say a 3 mile radius constitutes of upper St and the improving northern Hackney/Islington areas of stoke Newington and the exceedingly gentrified dalton area.

I think you should have mentioned Chelsea a team situated in arguably the most wealthy areas of London, if not the country, supported by middles class Surrey.

Tottenham, itself is one of Londons worst areas, so ally deprived and seemingly forgotten by regeneration, however! The fact of the matter is that the predominance of Spurs fans live in middle class/wealthy areas of Hertfordshire and Essex?

The fact of the matter is the number of locals who support football in Bristol isn't big enough to sustain two league teams (whoops), it's obvious that one team in Bristol are on the rise and one in great demise.......this town ain't big enough or the two of us, I think it's only a matter of time that our success and progression decides the future of the blue few.

Goodnight Irene indeed.

[JamesBCFC]

Just wondering on what the thoughts of people would be if mangotsfield were to be a league team, obviously it wont happen for a long time as im sure there are ground improvements that would need to happen and about 4 promotions

[Mahatma Coate]

Just wondering on what the thoughts of people would be if mangotsfield were to be a league team, obviously it wont happen for a long time as im sure there are ground improvements that would need to happen and about 4 promotions

That's a never in my opinion. If there was to be another league team locally it would be FGR and / or one of the satellite towns suddenly getting major funding and better gates - likes of Yate - but another remote possibility.

[JamesBCFC]

That's a never in my opinion. If there was to be another league team locally it would be FGR and / or one of the satellite towns suddenly getting major funding and better gates - likes of Yate - but another remote possibility.

apply the same question to one of those then, only used mangotsfield as i know a few on here went down to watch them in the cup a couple of weeks ago

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Hello teds. Just interesting in your opinions on why Bristol football has been so poor over the years? We could and probably should have 2 teams in the championship or even you lot in the prem. For the size of our city and the lack of big clubs around why is it so bad? The sheffield clubs are going through a poor patch but have loads more happiness then the both of us lately

P.S no sarcastic comments. I know we have been a lot worse then you over the years.. i don't need reminding

 

Many years ago (just after the suspicious South Stand fire) a gas head who is now employed by your club said to my dad "the proper thing to do would be for BCFC to GIVE us half of your ground and share it as a resource" and my dad replied "you can **** right off, BRFC would end up selling the half that they don't actually own, because that's what you have always done, sold anything worth anything".

 

and several years later I was unfortunate enough to have share a car to Old Trafford (for a european night) with another City fan and 2 gas heads and this cropped in conversation "I don't know why you BCFC fans hate us so much, all we want is for somebody to GIVE us a new ground", spot the theme forming here?, footnote the journey home was very quiet it was the famous night that Flapper saved the last minute penalty at the mem against the sags, my son was at the mem and phoned us just as the penalty was being taken and the walk back to the car was joyous as the 2 gas heads were in tears realising what that result meant.

 

You have found your level, accept it.

[...]

EMB uses his tongue prettier than a $50 hoare.

 

Good post.

 

 

 

TFR

[Esmond Million's Bung]

EMB uses his tongue prettier than a $50 hoare.

 

Good post.

 

 

 

TFR

 

Thank you, just off to clean my tooth.

[Mahatma Coate]

apply the same question to one of those then, only used mangotsfield as i know a few on here went down to watch them in the cup a couple of weeks ago

Difficult to say really, rivalries tend to build up over time. If we were Championship and they were League 2 then the relationship would end up like us and Yeovil I guess.

[Red-Robbo]

Newcastle used to get dire attendences in the 80s and part of the 90's..You dont have to go far back (1991) to see them averaging 16 k in the champ or in old money Division 2.

They then went on to have a sustained peroid of success, ok they won nothing but came bloody close to winning the league whenever that was 96 maybe?

For me lack of investment has been our problem over the years. Sustained decades of failure and general negative attitudes in the City towards local teams has then just passed down the generations who have then just thought fo0k City and Rovers ill suppport Arsenal Liverpool

Etc.

Personally any sort of sustained stint in the Premier League will see our sleeping fanbase awake and debates like this i honestly think will be a thing of the past. Its a shame it didnt happen in 08 but i am pretty certain our time in the top

Flight will come again, sooner than many think may i add..

Well you have to go back further than that to get us with 16k average in the second tier.

For one of Britain's largest cities (both City and Rovers) attendance is poor and that is NOT only down to lack of success.

The fact that Sheff Utd languishing well below us in L1 have much larger crowds week in, week out - and they are their city's least successful team, should tell you something about differences between cities in the north of England and Bristol.