Manchester Arena Explosion (Merged)

[One Team In Keynsham]

Listening to the Beeb, just indicated that the youngest victim is possibly 7 or 8. Horrific.

[BobBobSuperBob]

If identified by Security Services as a threat to our Country or Citizens take 'decisive' action as we did in Gibraltar , and as we would do in Afghanistan or elsewhere 

'Neutralise' the threat , on our own soil as necessary , before the threat becomes a reality

[brizzlelou]

2 hours ago, CrazyInWeston said:

I understand you're angry, as am I over the horrific situation but it is "cultural" racism, You see we are all one race (Humans)  so yes we shouldnt use the word, but we do. We use it because culturally we are different, that was the kind of "racism" I meant here.

A guy called Craig Considine said it as:

"It is true that Muslims are not a race. The word “Muslim” itself connects to followers of Islam, a world religion — not a “race.” Muslims are a diverse religious grouping, and, in fact, one of the most heterogeneous populations in the world. In theory, the ummah - or global Muslim community - is made up of many “races.” Moreover, not all Muslims are simply born “Muslim,” like people are born White or Black. Muslim identity is something that one can acquire through conversion. In this sense, Muslim identity is nurtured and not natured.

Since I am focusing on the subject of identity and race, let me extend this discussion to other social groupings.

If Muslims are not a race, than which group is? Some people might immediately point to Black people, and say, “that is definitely a race. Look at their skin color.” But, to be exact, Black people are not a race either. Neither, for that matter, are White people.

You see, there is no such thing as race or races, traditionally understood. Scientists long ago proved that race is not a biological reality but a myth, a socially constructed concept. Yet, despite the data, human beings have been programmed to associate specific things to certain “racial groups”; things like intelligence, work ethic, family values, and behavior. As such, we have been brainwashed to think that some groups are inherently better than others, and that the White race — to be frank — is better than all."

He then goes on to say:

"Treating Muslims poorly because they are Muslim is racism. It is that simple. If someone gives a Muslim women wearing the hijab a dirty look, sorry, but you are racist. If someone assaults a Muslim woman wearing the hijab — which has recently happened in Toronto — yeah, you are a racist. Time to face the music."

The full article is here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-considine/muslims-are-not-a-race_b_8591660.html

As I said, we are all ONE race IE Humans, the Human race, but this IS the word to use because we have made it the word to use. So yes I used the word "racist" in my post because the dude I was quoting was tarnishing all Muslims under the same brush. Hence why I said it was harsh and "racist"

You can't change the meaning of a word due the idiotic and uneducated misunderstanding of people!

[SARJ]

9 minutes ago, Selred said:

I am certainly not responsible for what my family do. What a ridiculous suggestion.

Also close down his mosque? So affect hundreds of innocent Muslims because he is the same race, and if anything just incite hatred? 

If 1 child misbehaves in his class at school, the whole class stays behind.

[phantom]

10 minutes ago, Selred said:

I am certainly not responsible for what my family do. What a ridiculous suggestion.

Also close down his mosque? So affect hundreds of innocent Muslims because he is the same race, and if anything just incite hatred? 

Genuine question and I don't pretend to be an expert on the subject, but haven't people involved in previous instances been traced back to being radicalised at their mosques?

If that is the case tough shit if there are "innocents affected" - what about the "innocents" they have targeted ? 

[BobBobSuperBob]

Didn't realise yesterday was the anniversary of Lee Rigby's murder

Coincidence ?

Unlikely 

[CrazyInWeston]

11 minutes ago, brizzlelou said:

You can't change the meaning of a word due the idiotic and uneducated misunderstanding of people!

I didnt change the meaning of the word, that is the meaning of the word. Hitler rounded up every jew he could find and placed them into concentration camps because he thought that his fellow "German" compatriots were the superior species/race. Its as I said, we cannot have racism because we are all one race, whether we are white/black/gingered/hindus/jews etc, its like why I say the word **** cant be a swear word but it is because society made it a swear word, just like the word racist, it isnt what it means as it means hatred to other races, but since we are all human, one race, we as a society made it so that the word racist or racism means hatred towards others whether religion/geographically or skin colour.

[BobBobSuperBob]

16 minutes ago, phantom said:

Genuine question and I don't pretend to be an expert on the subject, but haven't people involved in previous instances been traced back to being radicalised at their mosques?

If that is the case tough shit if there are "innocents affected" - what about the "innocents" they have targeted ? 

I think that the Internet and radical,clerics preaching over the WWW is the major problem Phantom, moreso than Clerics at Mosques, these days

Hundreds returning / returned from fighting in Syria and Iraq a massive nest of danger too

[Super]

12 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Didn't realise yesterday was the anniversary of Lee Rigby's murder

Coincidence ?

Unlikely 

Born in Manchester as well.

[phantom]

14 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I think that the Internet and radical,clerics preaching over the WWW is the major problem Phantom, moreso than Clerics at Mosques, these days

Hundreds returning / returned from fighting in Syria and Iraq a massive nest of danger too

Thank you @Bob Bob Super Bob glad I got a sensible response 

(Was interested to read this guy so say must have had help from others to build the bomb)

[phantom]

Second victim named now, 8 year old Saffie-Rose Roussos

[CrazyInWeston]

34 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I think that the Internet and radical,clerics preaching over the WWW is the major problem Phantom, moreso than Clerics at Mosques, these days

Hundreds returning / returned from fighting in Syria and Iraq a massive nest of danger too

This is why I say bombing Syria now isnt an option, they've all been and dispersed out, mainly to Europe because of Europes "open border" policy. They get in under false pretenses, then within Europe can move to any country they like.

I'f I was in Spain, I could hire a car and drive all the way to Poland with no checks, thats route permitting (chose any route) but going through France, Belgium, Getherlands, Germany, then Poland. Thank feckj we Brits still need our passports just to head to France over the eurotunnel.

[Mr Popodopolous]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/13/radicalisation-brainwashing-british-men-syria-julian-baggini

I know is from nearly 3 years ago but interesting read nonetheless.

Would also add to that, not especially covered in the article, the idea of self radicalisation.

What @Eddie Hitler said about Iran and Saudi Arabia and different sects of Islam, was interesting. Unsure whether I agree about Iran, on the fence about that but Saudis are very very dubious to say the least.

[Lew-T]

This makes an interesting reading..

Infact it's not interesting, it's ******* sickening.

[Super]

9 minutes ago, phantom said:

Second victim named now, 8 year old Saffie-Rose Roussos

No words..

[BobBobSuperBob]

10 minutes ago, phantom said:

Second victim named now, 8 year old Saffie-Rose Roussos

Sickening , truly sickening 

Bless her

Some of the stories already and the poor parents who can't find love ones is heartbreaking

Anyone that can look at this picture and not say 'enough is enough' ,  I find difficult to comprehend.

[Eddie Hitler]

2 hours ago, CrazyInWeston said:

What are you on about now? Writing it down? It'll say the same thing as you have already said.

There are plenty "muslims" living in peace in the UK and around the world.

You declared the act was done by a muslim just because of the fact that they were a "muslim" 

Lets go back a few decades, most bombings in the UK were done by the IRA, would you then at the time been adamant that it was an Irish person just because of the fact they were Irish?

What is the complicated concept is you for thinking everyone of the same skin colour/hair colour/religion is the same, because you said it.

If there was a bomb in London in the 1980s I would have said that it was done by somebody Irish before waiting for the police to release that news.

I won't try to explain this again as it's clearly beyond you.

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

If there was a bomb in London in the 1980s I would have said that it was done by somebody Irish before waiting for the police to release that news.

I won't try to explain this again as it's clearly beyond you.

And without getting embroiled in this -

I should say In both instances I'd think the same as you Eddie

Perhaps we are the only ones

Does that mean I thought anything but a tiny minority of  , let alone all Irish were terrorists or all Muslims are , - give me strength   

of course not

[CrazyInWeston]

Just now, Eddie Hitler said:

If there was a bomb in London in the 1980s I would have said that it was done by somebody Irish before waiting for the police to release that news.

Its not beyond me mate, you've just clearly proven you're racist to a fault. If back in the 80's you would have declared that, as you have just told me. It is prejudice, just like last night's bombings, now it may well have had been committed by somebody of Islam or Muslim faith, it still isnt right to put every single one of them under the same assumption as you have been doing.

5 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

I won't try to explain this again as it's clearly beyond you.

Explain again?? What on Earth do you mean? You never explained anything, just prejudice and hatred, which I said INITIALLY on my first quote from you, I understood you are angry, but please, lets not brush everyone the same.

[Eddie Hitler]

Just now, CrazyInWeston said:

Its not beyond me mate, you've just clearly proven you're racist to a fault. If back in the 80's you would have declared that, as you have just told me. It is prejudice, just like last night's bombings, now it may well have had been committed by somebody of Islam or Muslim faith, it still isnt right to put every single one of them under the same assumption as you have been doing.

Explain again?? What on Earth do you mean? You never explained anything, just prejudice and hatred, which I said INITIALLY on my first quote from you, I understood you are angry, but please, lets not brush everyone the same.

Ok, one last chorus.

I said the bombing was done by a muslim and was inspired by his religion.

I said that I would have assumed that a bomb in London in the 1980s would have been done by somebody Irish.

 

So what I am saying is: all elephants are grey. 

Whereas what you are hearing is: all grey animals are elephants.

 

This is commonly referred to as a logical fallacy on your part.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Ok, one last chorus.

I said the bombing was done by a muslim and was inspired by his religion.

I said that I would have assumed that a bomb in London in the 1980s would have been done by somebody Irish.

 

So what I am saying is: all elephants are grey. 

Whereas what you are hearing is: all grey animals are elephants.

 

This is commonly referred to as a logical fallacy on your part.

The only thing I'd personally say Eddie is

instead of 'said the bombing was done by a muslim and was inspired by his religion.'

(And I'm no expert on Islam but as far as all I've read and understand)

Id say 'and was inspired by a perverse and inaccurate interpretation of his religion.'

[CrazyInWeston]

Just now, Eddie Hitler said:

Ok, one last chorus.

I said the bombing was done by a muslim and was inspired by his religion.

Yes exactly mate, you prejudiced to say it was done by a muslim, before the police had any facts. You could well be right, but what if this was done by an atheist who had mental issues? All I'm saying here, is wait till the facts have been announced. If it was a dirty muslim as you call them, then by all means slag off, but what I'm trying to tell you, not all of them are dirty, and it is this that you dont seem to understand. 

[Northern Red]

For the first and possibly only time ever, I thought Donald Trump got it spot on with his statement - saying not to refer to these people as monsters because that term glamourises it, it's what they want. Call them losers instead. 

[Selred]

1 hour ago, SARJ said:

If 1 child misbehaves in his class at school, the whole class stays behind.

The key word being child. 

1 hour ago, phantom said:

Genuine question and I don't pretend to be an expert on the subject, but haven't people involved in previous instances been traced back to being radicalised at their mosques?

If that is the case tough shit if there are "innocents affected" - what about the "innocents" they have targeted ? 

Yes in some cases they have, and if the Mosque is radicalizing people then it 110% be shut down. But in this instant there has been no suggestion that this has been the case with this bomber, yet Rascal is calling for it to be shut.

The majority of radicalization is through the internet, on this logic we shut that down as well.

[Eddie Hitler]

5 minutes ago, CrazyInWeston said:

Yes exactly mate, you prejudiced to say it was done by a muslim, before the police had any facts. You could well be right, but what if this was done by an atheist who had mental issues? All I'm saying here, is wait till the facts have been announced. If it was a dirty muslim as you call them, then by all means slag off, but what I'm trying to tell you, not all of them are dirty, and it is this that you dont seem to understand. 

Where have I called them that?  I did a lengthy post setting out many of the factions of islam, some that I'm fine with and some that I'm not.

You are just wildly virtue signalling here for reasons best known to yourself.  You're not impressing anybody.

 

[CrazyInWeston]

Just now, Eddie Hitler said:

Where have I called them that?  I did a lengthy post setting out many of the factions of islam, some that I'm fine with and some that I'm not.

You are just wildly virtue signalling here for reasons best known to yourself.  You're not impressing anybody.

 

OMG why do poeple have to be so LITERAL on this forum, I added dirty ffs, anyway you may well have, it still doesnt excuse your post for brandishing everyone following muslim the same now does it, because as you just said, you made a post in the past declaring which ones you liked, so why when you said the word "muslim" last night, you didnt separate these sects! As that word would declare all of them, seems to me you dont like any of them after all. Why not say Shias or Shiites or Sunnies? Saying Muslim on the whole means you imply no difference.

[Eddie Hitler]

2 minutes ago, CrazyInWeston said:

OMG why do poeple have to be so LITERAL on this forum, I added dirty ffs, anyway you may well have, it still doesnt excuse your post for brandishing everyone following muslim the same now does it, because as you just said, you made a post in the past declaring which ones you liked, so why when you said the word "muslim" last night, you didnt separate these sects! As that word would declare all of them, seems to me you dont like any of them after all. Why not say Shias or Shiites or Sunnies? Saying Muslim on the whole means you imply no difference.

[CrazyInWeston]

Just now, Eddie Hitler said:

 

I see, another picture post, the intelligence of someone losing the argument rather than anyone who has anything constructive to support it.

Not only that, you seem to have highlighted why ppl are so literal rather than actually answer my question, another reason you are losing here.

[Mr Popodopolous]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/manchester-bombing-mancunians-defiance-in-the-face-of-terror_uk_5923f5b2e4b034684b0f6874

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Firstly my sincere thoughts to everybody caught up in this most cowardly of acts by people who are worse than monsters and RIP to the dead, words seem just so hollow, especially when already an 8 year old girl has been named amongst the dead.

And this from a scum sucking freelance American so called journalist, somebody known for his barbed comments against Trump, another know all it all falling pathetically from his high horse, I am sure even Trump couldn't sink that low ever.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/23/too-soon-american-reporter-slammed-for-sick-joke-on-twitter-in-wake-of-manchester-attacks-6655091/