Cambridge Batch Red Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Yeah - don't blame the muzzies. They don't like it. We are all one people innit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 I see Pep's wife and daughters were st the arena last night and I think I heard right that Man City Players have pledged £100k to help victims Fair play , and nothing more than a mornings wages but still good-o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 45 minutes ago, gl1 said: Really? The attacks in this country have been all done by born n bred British nationals. The guy who killed Lee rigby had a broad cockney accent. That is irrelevant. The larger the number, whether home grown or imported, it is easier for the bad ones to hide. Have you asked yourself why these attacks take place in the UK, France, Belgium & Germany, yet they don't in countries like Poland or Hungary ? Simple, it is easier to attack here because it is easier to hide. With regard to Lee Rigby; if MI5 hadn't been so keen to get Adebalajo to "switch sides" instead of putting him behind bars, then Lee just might still be alive today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gl1 Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 14 minutes ago, The Gasbuster said: Have you asked yourself why these attacks take place in the UK, France, Belgium & Germany, yet they don't in countries like Poland or Hungary ? ISIS would tell you they target U.K., France, Belgium, Germany, Spain and indeed America due to our perceived 'meddling in the Middle East affairs' poland, Hungary and indeed other states who appear not to 'meddle in their affairs' such as Austria, Italy, Switzerland, Netherlands, Romania, Portugal etc are left alone. i am not an apologist for any terror organisations but your argument is factually flawed. It's nothing to do with how many foreigners you have , more how you are percieved foreign policy wise. I actually support our foreign policy on fighting terror (although didn't support the Iraq or Afghan invasions) the attempt to suppress terror is fundamentally right and they don't like it so we get bombed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Rocker Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said: I love my fellow English men and women (and indeed fellow British men and women) enough to value their liberty, safety and peace. That includes their librety to follow a religion of their choosing, including Islam. More practically, if there is one lesson to be learned from history, it is that banning anything never ever works. It simply drives people underground. And frankly the vast majority of Islamic terrorists are people who identify as Muslim culturally but feel disconnected from both their religion and mainstream Muslim society. Generally speaking people who might see themselves as from Muslim backgrounds (whatever that means) but not go to mosques or follow the Koran and, up until the point of radicalisation, might be engaging with drugs, alcohol, strip clubs, casual sex or other behaviour that is not perceived as Islamic - hence the desperate violent desire to prove their faith in some dramatic way because they struggle to do the small acts on a day to day basis. Banning Islam has three fundamental flaws: 1. As previously stated, it is erroneous to think you can successfully ban a religion. Any religion. It just will not work. 2. It will drive people away from traditional Muslim places of worship, where terrorists tend not to go, and to the places where radical jihadists might actually be. 3.Given the mainstream Muslim community is not in itself the problem, banning the mainstream Muslim community will not be an effective solution. If you actually read interviews with people who have joined IS, they are often gang members who have chosen to join what they see as the biggest gang in the world. Solving the problem of radical Islamic terror is far more likely to be achieved by tackling the reasons why people join gangs than by ill-conceived and doomed attempts at stopping people following a religion. 1 hour ago, Big Brother said: Islam is the root cause of this attack. In the same way that Christianity was the root cause of the IRA bombings? No, religion didn't come into it, murderous criminals with a political chip on their shoulders were responsible. As LB implies above, much the same thing here, criminal gang mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 14 minutes ago, gl1 said: ISIS would tell you they target U.K., France, Belgium, Germany, Spain and indeed America due to our perceived 'meddling in the Middle East affairs' poland, Hungary and indeed other states who appear not to 'meddle in their affairs' such as Austria, Italy, Switzerland, Netherlands, Romania, Portugal etc are left alone. i am not an apologist for any terror organisations but your argument is factually flawed. It's nothing to do with how many foreigners you have , more how you are percieved foreign policy wise. I actually support our foreign policy on fighting terror (although didn't support the Iraq or Afghan invasions) the attempt to suppress terror is fundamentally right and they don't like it so we get bombed. Sorry, but you are wrong. Poland played a significant role in the Iraq war, during the invasion and the occupation directly afterwards. See below. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4640772.stm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_–_Iraq Poland took a far greater role than Germany did (which was purely financial). Time and time again posters on here blame these atrocities upon actions that took place years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 17 minutes ago, gl1 said: ISIS would tell you they target U.K., France, Belgium, Germany, Spain and indeed America due to our perceived 'meddling in the Middle East affairs' poland, Hungary and indeed other states who appear not to 'meddle in their affairs' such as Austria, Italy, Switzerland, Netherlands, Romania, Portugal etc are left alone. i am not an apologist for any terror organisations but your argument is factually flawed. It's nothing to do with how many foreigners you have , more how you are percieved foreign policy wise. I actually support our foreign policy on fighting terror (although didn't support the Iraq or Afghan invasions) the attempt to suppress terror is fundamentally right and they don't like it so we get bombed. Do you include Belgium in that group ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gl1 Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Just now, The Gasbuster said: Do you include Belgium in that group ? No, I put them in my first 'targeted' group. Look, ISIS would tell you they target U.K., France, Belgium Germany, Spain and indeed America due to our perceived 'meddling in the Middle East affairs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Just now, gl1 said: No, I put them in my first 'targeted' group. Look, ISIS would tell you they target U.K., France, Belgium Germany, Spain and indeed America due to our perceived 'meddling in the Middle East affairs And when have Germany been involved in these wars ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gl1 Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, Big Brother said: gl1 ... come on dude ... Where did the parents of these 2nd or 3rd generation muslims come from (English converts notwithstanding)? The amount of crime that has followed the mass invasions of illegal economic migrants has been horrific. Do we need more of that? If they settle here, and then have children ... What then? Dunno fella, you seem to have the answers. Deportation? Castration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gl1 Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Just now, The Gasbuster said: And when have Germany been involved in these wars ? I've not mentioned wars, only that countries who actively support the war on terror seemed to get bombed. The amount of foreigners living there is irrelevant. That's my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Just now, gl1 said: I've not mentioned wars, only that countries who actively support the war on terror seemed to get bombed. The amount of foreigners living there is irrelevant. That's my point Ok, I have given you evidence regarding Poland's involvement. Tell me why, in your opinion, that as of today, Poland has not been targeted by Islamist terrorists ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gl1 Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 minute ago, The Gasbuster said: Ok, I have given you evidence regarding Poland's involvement. Tell me why, in your opinion, that as of today, Poland has not been targeted by Islamist terrorists ? Because there is no point bombing there. All the poles are over here taking our jobs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Just now, gl1 said: Because there is no point bombing there. All the poles are over here taking our jobs... Is that really the best you can do ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Still many parents waiting for news on their children. Just cant imagine what they are going through. Sure most of us here are parents. Truly heartbreaking. Petty arguements should be left for another day imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 26 minutes ago, Big Brother said: WHo cares about motives. I would hope anyone who wants to stop this from happening again cares about the motive. Unless we actually understand what is happening and address it then it is going to keep happening. The problem with your 'solutions' is not that people might consider them unpalatable or that they might be considered 'politically incorrect'. Who gives a damn about any of that. The problem is that, if you ignore or misdiagnose the reasons why, any proposed solutions are never going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gl1 Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, The Gasbuster said: Is that really the best you can do ? No, I was just playing up to the 'foreigners over here taking our jobs' shtick that so many have fallen for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bend it like brian Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 How about for a start....ban these scumbags from spouting this crap on the streets........freedom of speech ....not when your inciting the deaths of british soilders ...british police...etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gl1 Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Just now, Big Brother said: did you mean to write 'foreign ideologies over here killing our people' ? People who believe A also believe B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Rocker Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 19 minutes ago, Big Brother said: How is this relevant to what a muslim does? Does it excuse last night's massacre? You're wrong I'm afraid. The clue is when these bastards quote from the Koran just before they pull the pin. The fact that they, as people, are savages is beside the point, they think they are heading towards Islamic martyrdom. Missed the point just a tad? Neither the actions of the so-called Islamist extremists nor those of the so-called Catholic extremists can be justified. Neither are supported by their respective religions. They were/are carried out by murderers using their warped interpretations of their religions as some kind of justification. It goes without saying, doesn't it, that the vast majority from all religions abhor terrorism and murder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gl1 Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Just now, Big Brother said: Sorry to come back at you but this is completely incorrect. Ok, let's just agree to disagree fella. This forum after what's happened today is not the place for an argument. I think we add do agree that these deaths are a catastrophe and our hearts go out to the friends and family of all concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 15 minutes ago, Big Brother said: But we know why this is happening (at least some people do) - Islam hates the West. Islam has hated everything other than itself from practically day one. Here's my source: https://quran.com/ I could refer you back to my previous post. And we could carry on going round in circles. But it probably will not achieve much. In all honestly, I'm quite happy with how I've put my arguments across so far on this thread and don't have anything to add to them - I could rebut what you have just said but I've already explained why I think you are wrong (particularly if you are implying most Islamic terrorists take their cues from a book the majority of Islamic terrorists are not very familiar with). I would add that I think you have put your points very eloquently, as you almost invariably do. But I think you are absolutely wrong and searching for solutions that fit your worldview rather than solutions backed up by evidence. I think I may leave it there as we are not going to agree and I do agree with @Super that this is far too serious and sensitive subject to denigrate it into a squabble. Edit: Just seen you and @gl1 have reached a similar position! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Just now, Big Brother said: Next time then. And btw I did not intend to get into this debate today. It's just that ... it's all so inevitable. In my eyes, at least. Indeed. I do not doubt at all you are sincere in your motives. But I suspect we will never agree on what the solutions are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Terror threat now raised to critical. Military possibly deployed to secure certain places .... Source sky news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, ziderheadarmy said: Wonder why it's been raised now, intelligence? The religion of peace is about to celebrate its holy month of ramalamalamalamadingdong which they do by killing infidels. Starts Friday IIRC. Charming people, what! Here is their holy song: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 15 minutes ago, The Batman said: Terror threat now raised to critical. Military possibly deployed to secure certain places .... Source sky news Hmmmmmm They havnt done that on a whim Heads down people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said: I see Pep's wife and daughters were st the arena last night and I think I heard right that Man City Players have pledged £100k to help victims Fair play , and nothing more than a mornings wages but still good-o Yaya Toure and his agent have given £50k each..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 16 minutes ago, ziderheadarmy said: Wonder why it's been raised now, intelligence? Often by communication interception or Social Media activity - 'chatter' or possibly as a result of last night , and initial examinations etc they may believe we have a bomb maker in Uk (Normally Prized individuals who are never the actual triggerman) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Just now, BS4 on Tour... said: Yaya Toure and his agent have given £50k each..... Maybe that's what I heard then BS4 - Fair play to them Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Rocker Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 38 minutes ago, Big Brother said: Have you read the Koran? I have read most of it. Here you go - https://quran.com I haven't read the Koran no, life's too short for that sort of thing. It's tough enough finding the time to watch football, listen to music and spend time with your family. Religion? Forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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