No signings in two years...

[spudski]

....yet competing at Champions league level.

I'm sure most fans know about Athletic Bilbao's philosophy of trying to only play Basque region players...this article talks about their ethos, and how they go about putting all their money into scouting, coaching, the academy and producing a pathway for their academy products to play for the first team.

When reading...it struck a chord with our own club. Whilst miles away from Bilbao's standard, and 'restraints'...it shows it is possible to compete and win without using the transfer market and buying 'Big'.

Could we do the same eventually?

Pour more and more money into the Academy, coach's, scouting...dare I say make someone like 'Cheltenham' our Club for development ( as Bilbao do with fourth tier team Basconia ).

With FFFP not effecting by these costs...surely another reason to do it.

In many ways we already are with the principles in place...I for one would be happy to see us going more towards this example.

https://www.tifofootball.com/features/no-signings-in-two-years-how-do-athletic-club-bilbao-do-it/

[Welcome To The Jungle]

I have long admired their philosophy and would love to see City turn out with players from the West Country only. 

Although our policy of buy young and sell high will probably work, it isn't without its risks. Players like Engvall and Magnússon where we will probably not re-coup the money payed for them. I do believe it is working as players like COD and Brownhill would easily compensate if we sold them, but it would only take one 'bad batch' of signings to make us financially at risk.

Therefore I think that the academy and first team training facilities need more investment than any other area at the moment to make them completely state of the art. 

I'd also like Bristol City to invest in sports pitches across Bristol, and maybe one day further afield. Little things like making sure they are flat, without rocks sticking out or boggy patches (through better drainage). Focusing primarily on ones that are used by players under 18, this would help local coaches produce better players before they reach our system. A sign by each pitch saying that it was renovated by BCFC would be great marketing too.

In addition to this, local coaches could be offered courses by the club to try and get the whole youth football community in Bristol, singing off the same song sheet.

A large investment but it could mean that future outgoings are reduced and you'd win over kids from all over Bristol as we invest in them and their football.

[lenred]

23 minutes ago, spudski said:

....yet competing at Champions league level.

I'm sure most fans know about Athletic Bilbao's philosophy of trying to only play Basque region players...this article talks about their ethos, and how they go about putting all their money into scouting, coaching, the academy and producing a pathway for their academy products to play for the first team.

When reading...it struck a chord with our own club. Whilst miles away from Bilbao's standard, and 'restraints'...it shows it is possible to compete and win without using the transfer market and buying 'Big'.

Could we do the same eventually?

Pour more and more money into the Academy, coach's, scouting...dare I say make someone like 'Cheltenham' our Club for development ( as Bilbao do with fourth tier team Basconia ).

With FFFP not effecting by these costs...surely another reason to do it.

In many ways we already are with the principles in place...I for one would be happy to see us going more towards this example.

https://www.tifofootball.com/features/no-signings-in-two-years-how-do-athletic-club-bilbao-do-it/

Also got a fantastic new stadium into the bargain. Must be an incredibly well run club with a fantastic ethos. Great city as well, not unlike Bristol with it's amazing arts and food scenes. 

[Shtanley]

I do think that with the recent trend of outrageous spending by all the teams in the top ~8 in the premier league, the fact  everton have utilised their academy and the buying of young English talent is something that deserves far more praise.

I know Keane Pickford and Rooney cost/are costing them a lot but the fact that you see Holgate, Kenny, Davies, Calvert-Lewin all starting games  plus Dowell and Robinson doing well out on loan to me proves that you can achieve things with a strong academy at the highest level. 

For me I think we can do something similar, especially when you get a feeling that we’re now actively looking to get other clubs’ most promising youngsters (Bakinson, Hinds and now walsh). I think if I was a bristolian/West Country youngster I’d stay here rather than going to Southampton. 

[GrahamC]

@spudski Their youth scouting system is simply off the scale.

Basically because they know they will only play Basque players they have something ridiculous like 50 scouts looking at youth team football alone, watching every junior game that a possible future player might play.

They run teams from under nines upwards, sometimes having an A & B team for the same age group!

They are also incredibly ruthless in the way they poach Academy players from the other Basque sides (Real Sociedad, Alaves, Eibar, Osasuna).

Amazing club though..

[CyderInACan]

Great article; but  this kind of story tends to reappear every year or two given the self-imposed "Basque only" ethos and the over-riding principals the club are run on. 

That said, it IS a great story. That in this day and age it is remarkable and - I guess - also shows how poor La Liga is once you get past the top 7 or 8 clubs. 

It's also - as mention quite rightly by @lenred above - a great city and well worth a visit. @EnclosureSurge and I were there in the mid-noughties and enjoyed it thouroughly. Athletic were still at San Mames then so we did the tour of the Stadium & Museum, including the stuffed Lion in the boardroom (apt for Los Leones) and the statue of Pichichi. 

Always good to see them doing so well and I always keep an eye out for their results. 

[spudski]

Perhaps someone can enlighten me better...Have Bilbao lightened up a bit with the  'only Basque' philosophy?.... do Bilbao's scouts only look at youth players from the Basque region, or do they scout outside that region as well,and bring those youngsters into their Academy?

Or is it purely Basque youth?

[Fiale]

It would be great if we could set up a cat one academy for South West players. Then loan the players out to clubs in the South west for the aproppiate levels they play at. This would hopefully give everyone access to good players, but of course would rely on teams such as Torquay, Exeter, Cheltenham, Yeovil etc to buy into the concept (at least partly) the centre would effectively be all these clubs (and more) youth development. With the successful players moving up the pyramid  as they progress.

 

I am sure there are loads of rules, contractual and costs problems - but where there is a will there is a way. Local English players, playing for local teams. 

 

[GrahamC]

24 minutes ago, spudski said:

Perhaps someone can enlighten me better...Have Bilbao lightened up a bit with the  'only Basque' philosophy?.... do Bilbao's scouts only look at youth players from the Basque region, or do they scout outside that region as well,and bring those youngsters into their Academy?

Or is it purely Basque youth?

They effectively decide at the outset how "Basque" someone is..

The black lad up front for them at present, Inaki Williams, is the child of immigrants but as he was born in Bilbao, he qualifies.

Likewise a CB they had a few years ago (Amorebieta, who then played for Boro & Fulham later on) was born in Venezuela of 2 Basque parents, was considered to be "eligible".

What they don't do though is go down the route of Wales & Ireland with tenuous "grandparent went there once", sort of eligibility..

To answer your question, anyone they pick has to be considered as Basque, they won't bring in say a lad born in Madrid or Seville, you must have a connection to the Basque lands.

[spudski]

26 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

They effectively decide at the outset how "Basque" someone is..

The black lad up front for them at present, Inaki Williams, is the child of immigrants but as he was born in Bilbao, he qualifies.

Likewise a CB they had a few years ago (Amorebieta, who then played for Boro & Fulham later on) was born in Venezuela of 2 Basque parents, was considered to be "eligible".

What they don't do though is go down the route of Wales & Ireland with tenuous "grandparent went there once", sort of eligibility..

To answer your question, anyone they pick has to be considered as Basque, they won't bring in say a lad born in Madrid or Seville, you must have a connection to the Basque lands.

Cheers for that mate.

[Ivorguy]

How local is local? Bristol, Glos, Somerset?   Atyeo would have been rejected.

What constitutes The West Country? Guernsey?

How many Bristolians have made it to league level without passing through City or Rovers first?  Very few, I suspect.  Roy Bentley?

[PHILINFRANCE]

20 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

How local is local? Bristol, Glos, Somerset.  Atyeo would have been rejected.

What constitutes The West Country? Guernsey?

How many Bristolians have made it to league level without passing through City or Rovers first?  Very few, I suspect.  Roy Bentley?

How interesting.

I always thought RB was one of those who played for both City and Rovers.

[eastonboy]

I opened this thread expecting to see a topic about the blue quartered few and their camel fiddling owner

[Maesknoll Red]

A fine ambition, but once the Colony is up and running and the sags academy is in full flow, we’ll have serious competition for youngsters signatures......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ivorguy]

1 hour ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

How interesting.

I always thought RB was one of those who played for both City and Rovers.

I think you are right!

[red'tili'mdead]

Do  you guys know if we are now seriously going for Cat 1 status for our Academy? Got a bit lost as to where this got to with Ashton Vale etc

As far as I can recall the nearest Cat 1 Academy are Southampton and WBA and they can therefore still poach our most promising youngsters - if the big boys don't swoop in....

Surely its a no brainer with Big Steve's investment program and commitment to Bristol Sport?

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Don't think LA Liga is as poor as all that.

Barca Madrid Atletico tier 1 arguably

Valencia Sevilla Sociedad Villarreal Bilbao Tier 2

Then plenty of sides capable of a good year or perhaps more..Celta Vigo Real Betis. Hell Las Palmas last year outplayed Madrid twice.

Leganes and Girona- both relative minnows- both took points off Real this year. Espanyol are a solid side who can trip up most opposition on their day.

Make no mistake, Bilbao self evidently have an excellent academy. La Liga absolutely has more depth than widely perceived though.

If it's a straight comparison to PL? Our very own top 6 getting nearly 2.4 pts per game aka approaching 80 percent of pts on average vs the other 14 sides isn't too competitive at all is it?

[The Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, Ivorguy said:

How local is local? Bristol, Glos, Somerset?   Atyeo would have been rejected.

What constitutes The West Country? Guernsey?

How many Bristolians have made it to league level without passing through City or Rovers first?  Very few, I suspect.  Roy Bentley?

Not many. 

Jack Butland is probably the most prominent.

Reuben Reid and Danny Rose (not that one) are the only others I can think of.

[gordie]

8 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

Great article; but  this kind of story tends to reappear every year or two given the self-imposed "Basque only" ethos and the over-riding principals the club are run on. 

That said, it IS a great story. That in this day and age it is remarkable and - I guess - also shows how poor La Liga is once you get past the top 7 or 8 clubs. 

It's also - as mention quite rightly by @lenred above - a great city and well worth a visit. @EnclosureSurge and I were there in the mid-noughties and enjoyed it thouroughly. Athletic were still at San Mames then so we did the tour of the Stadium & Museum, including the stuffed Lion in the boardroom (apt for Los Leones) and the statue of Pichichi. 

Always good to see them doing so well and I always keep an eye out for their results. 

Isn't that the case with most leagues?

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 hour ago, Chris_Brown said:

Not many. 

Jack Butland is probably the most prominent.

Reuben Reid and Danny Rose (not that one) are the only others I can think of.

Lloyd James did fairly well at Saints but has fallen off the radar now.

Colin Addison, Scott Laird and Lee Martin were all born in Taunton.

[Cowshed]

2 hours ago, red'tili'mdead said:

Do  you guys know if we are now seriously going for Cat 1 status for our Academy? Got a bit lost as to where this got to with Ashton Vale etc

As far as I can recall the nearest Cat 1 Academy are Southampton and WBA and they can therefore still poach our most promising youngsters - if the big boys don't swoop in....

Surely its a no brainer with Big Steve's investment program and commitment to Bristol Sport?

 

WBA do not have a academy in the near vicinity. They have development centres which is the level between junior club football and academies.

Southampton do similar in Bath and Keynsham but do include academy players who train also at their academy, with an expectation that the player does move to the Southampton area within a timescale.

The development centre path is neglected by BCFC.  

[Bryans Left Peg]

Wow I was not aware of this ethos, what a sensation idea and a fantastic way to run a club. No matter the clubs predicament, you'd always be proud to support your local players.

[The Bard]

Fact is only Real Madrid have provided more Spanish internationals than Athletic Bilbao. Their philosophy means that their resources go into making what they have better. 

People have listed local players above.  The point about them is there would be many more local players because they would be better coached and have the opportunity to play. What is there not to like about making the best of what you have?

[Cowshed]

23 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I have long admired their philosophy and would love to see City turn out with players from the West Country only. 

Although our policy of buy young and sell high will probably work, it isn't without its risks. Players like Engvall and Magnússon where we will probably not re-coup the money payed for them. I do believe it is working as players like COD and Brownhill would easily compensate if we sold them, but it would only take one 'bad batch' of signings to make us financially at risk.

Therefore I think that the academy and first team training facilities need more investment than any other area at the moment to make them completely state of the art. 

I'd also like Bristol City to invest in sports pitches across Bristol, and maybe one day further afield. Little things like making sure they are flat, without rocks sticking out or boggy patches (through better drainage). Focusing primarily on ones that are used by players under 18, this would help local coaches produce better players before they reach our system. A sign by each pitch saying that it was renovated by BCFC would be great marketing too.

In addition to this, local coaches could be offered courses by the club to try and get the whole youth football community in Bristol, singing off the same song sheet.

A large investment but it could mean that future outgoings are reduced and you'd win over kids from all over Bristol as we invest in them and their football.

I'd also like Bristol City to invest in sports pitches across Bristol, and maybe one day further afield. Little things like making sure they are flat, without rocks sticking out or boggy patches (through better drainage). Focusing primarily on ones that are used by players under 18, this would help local coaches produce better players before they reach our system. A sign by each pitch saying that it was renovated by BCFC would be great marketing too.

The local HML league for junior clubs has just had two weeks of cancelled fixtures. Happens every season, every year, weeks and months lost all across the Country in a Country that cannot adopt to the weather it knows it will get. Add the training that was cancelled and? Kids in foreign climes get to spend more time practicing with the football. English kids should be spending seven eight hours a week playing, practicing, it can be that a month and less.

The Community Trust did run satellite training centres across Bristol. A great idea that appears to have been ditched v school holiday camps (also very good).

In addition to this, local coaches could be offered courses by the club to try and get the whole youth football community in Bristol, singing off the same song sheet.

I think this is more important than the above if BCFC, Bristol, England wants to develop truly skilled football players, but also allowing kids to play in fun environments that respect the right of kids to be just that. Junior football is infested with long ball teams and win at all costs coaches and parents to the detriment of kids.

BCFC profile in junior football, is low. They have no song sheet for the community. A % of a % get coached in BCFC's academy leaving 99%+ to luck of who will coach them. BCFC can step in where the FA should. A BCFC skills syllabus could be introduced for schools and junior clubs, BCFC accreditation for junior clubs and schools that meet BCFC standards (which we do not know) ... It goes on  and on.

The Community Trust do offer level I coaches courses. They could offer something entirely different - the guidance to clubs and schools they do not get leading to long ball teams and win at all costs that could disadvantage the Bobby Reids, and Joe Bryans who ARE out there waiting to be discovered and nurtured.

It is also makes socio and economic sense. A C in FC that means Community (stole another's line here).

[red'tili'mdead]

5 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

I'd also like Bristol City to invest in sports pitches across Bristol, and maybe one day further afield. Little things like making sure they are flat, without rocks sticking out or boggy patches (through better drainage). Focusing primarily on ones that are used by players under 18, this would help local coaches produce better players before they reach our system. A sign by each pitch saying that it was renovated by BCFC would be great marketing too.

The local HML league for junior clubs has just had two weeks of cancelled fixtures. Happens every season, every year, weeks and months lost all across the Country in a Country that cannot adopt to the weather it knows it will get. Add the training that was cancelled and? Kids in foreign climes get to spend more time practicing with the football.

In addition to this, local coaches could be offered courses by the club to try and get the whole youth football community in Bristol, singing off the same song sheet.

I think this is more important than the above if BCFC, Bristol, England wants to develop truly skilled football players, but also allowing kids to play in fun environments that respect the right of kids to be just that. Junior football is infested with long ball teams and win at all costs coaches and parents to the detriment of kids.

BCFC profile in junior football, is low. They have no song sheet for the community. A % of a % get coached in BCFC's academy leaving 99%+ to luck of who will coach them. BCFC can step in where the FA should. A BCFC skills syllabus could be introduced for schools and junior clubs, accreditation for junior clubs and schools that meet BCFC standards (which we do not know) ...

The Community Trust do offer level I coaches courses. They could offer something entirely different - guidance to clubs and schools they do not get leading to long ball teams and win at all costs that could disadvantage the Bobby Reids and Joe Bryans who ARE out there waiting to be discovered and nurtured.

It is also makes socio and economic sense. A C in FC that means Community (stole another's line line).

Totally agree !!

Should also be focused at schools level too as this should able us to identify and hoover up all local talent.

In an 'ideal world' where Steve L plays fairy godmother BCFC could:

• Organise/fund a Bristol wide league/cup competition. Winners play a final at Ashton Gate
• Provide a structured training program for schools and ad hoc coaching sessions with BCFC players/coaches
• Perhaps fund upgrade to pitches in deprived areas.

Could also give participating players match day tickets - would drag in a whole cohorts of reds for life and get some energy into the ground

[bcfctim]

22 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Don't think LA Liga is as poor as all that.

Barca Madrid Atletico tier 1 arguably

Valencia Sevilla Sociedad Villarreal Bilbao Tier 2

Then plenty of sides capable of a good year or perhaps more..Celta Vigo Real Betis. Hell Las Palmas last year outplayed Madrid twice.

Leganes and Girona- both relative minnows- both took points off Real this year. Espanyol are a solid side who can trip up most opposition on their day.

Make no mistake, Bilbao self evidently have an excellent academy. La Liga absolutely has more depth than widely perceived though.

If it's a straight comparison to PL? Our very own top 6 getting nearly 2.4 pts per game aka approaching 80 percent of pts on average vs the other 14 sides isn't too competitive at all is it?

Absolutely. Comparisons are virtually impossible to quantify because there's no direct competition but those that say La Liga's rubbish bar the top few teams tend to be those that couldn't name anyone bar the top few teams. It's had as many different winners in the last 20 years as the PL

[Cowshed]

22 hours ago, red'tili'mdead said:

Totally agree !!

Should also be focused at schools level too as this should able us to identify and hoover up all local talent.

In an 'ideal world' where Steve L plays fairy godmother BCFC could:

• Organise/fund a Bristol wide league/cup competition. Winners play a final at Ashton Gate
• Provide a structured training program for schools and ad hoc coaching sessions with BCFC players/coaches
• Perhaps fund upgrade to pitches in deprived areas.

Could also give participating players match day tickets - would drag in a whole cohorts of reds for life and get some energy into the ground

Bristol City/Community have been organising competitions for schools. Great, do it more and bigger aim for brilliant.

The way of increasing the clubs reach has to be similar to your second bullet point. European clubs coach tens of thousands of kids by introducing their philosophy into junior clubs and schools. In Bristol this could replace the archaic methods of many and if directed at younger years in the 6 -11 age groups it would help create many more skilled kids rather than the many with a touch like a trampoline. This would increase the pool of talent for BCFC, children would enjoy it - Its symbiotic.

The skilled kids could then move into more specified technical skills coaching provided by BCFC.

Southampton scout in Bristol and its surrounds then offer professional advanced coaching to kids at Bath with a view to moving onto their academy if good enough. Its a form of development centre BCFC do not have. Bristol City have nothing for kids between junior football and academy level. A door is left open for other clubs. City allow Southampton to hoover up what could be our talent.

At junior clubs and schools what we see presently is often the uneducated in the means of development with a level 1 badge teaching children. Would anybody send their kids to a school where the teachers are volunteers with a basic qualification?

The FA have coach mentoring schemes, less than 100 mentors for the entire Country. The Somerset FA have just put up the price of coaching badges and have not run a level two course in Bristol for nearly a year ... That is not the way forward.

Bristol City FC could provide a philosophy, structure (skills programme) to educate the educators (coaches) to educate the kids.

Bristol and Bristol City can create a community wide coaching culture versed in the way of BCFC. The benefits are obvious ... Come on the Fairy  Godmother Steve L ... It is there waiting to happen..

[Trueredsupporter]

23 hours ago, red'tili'mdead said:

Totally agree !!

Should also be focused at schools level too as this should able us to identify and hoover up all local talent.

In an 'ideal world' where Steve L plays fairy godmother BCFC could:

• Organise/fund a Bristol wide league/cup competition. Winners play a final at Ashton Gate
• Provide a structured training program for schools and ad hoc coaching sessions with BCFC players/coaches
• Perhaps fund upgrade to pitches in deprived areas.

Could also give participating players match day tickets - would drag in a whole cohorts of reds for life and get some energy into the ground

City could start at my Sons school. It was year six before they started playing any football.

[Three Lions]

On ‎08‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 11:00, spudski said:

....yet competing at Champions league level.

I'm sure most fans know about Athletic Bilbao's philosophy of trying to only play Basque region players...this article talks about their ethos, and how they go about putting all their money into scouting, coaching, the academy and producing a pathway for their academy products to play for the first team.

When reading...it struck a chord with our own club. Whilst miles away from Bilbao's standard, and 'restraints'...it shows it is possible to compete and win without using the transfer market and buying 'Big'.

Could we do the same eventually?

Pour more and more money into the Academy, coach's, scouting...dare I say make someone like 'Cheltenham' our Club for development ( as Bilbao do with fourth tier team Basconia ).

With FFFP not effecting by these costs...surely another reason to do it.

In many ways we already are with the principles in place...I for one would be happy to see us going more towards this example.

https://www.tifofootball.com/features/no-signings-in-two-years-how-do-athletic-club-bilbao-do-it/

A club like Bilbao do not just put more money into their academy they aim to coach the region kids. you cant out the regions kids into one academy. the academy is for the tiny elite who might make it. City scouts are everywhere locally but with only x amount of space available at each age group in the academy what they do is limited to that. so City have to put money into grass roots to do some of the above and that is the big difference between what English and spanish clubs do.

[Trueredsupporter]

On ‎09‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 10:59, red'tili'mdead said:

Totally agree !!

Should also be focused at schools level too as this should able us to identify and hoover up all local talent.

In an 'ideal world' where Steve L plays fairy godmother BCFC could:

• Organise/fund a Bristol wide league/cup competition. Winners play a final at Ashton Gate
• Provide a structured training program for schools and ad hoc coaching sessions with BCFC players/coaches
• Perhaps fund upgrade to pitches in deprived areas.

Could also give participating players match day tickets - would drag in a whole cohorts of reds for life and get some energy into the ground

Community trust were running the EFL junior tournament yesterday at South Bristol sports centre.

"Provide a structured training program for schools and ad hoc coaching sessions with BCFC players/coaches" my kids school team need it!!!