firstdivision

We had the chances to win that game comfortably. The defending on the Norwich goal though was appalling, just amateurish. I’d like to know if the Norwich scorer was offside, but how we let them get in so easily was baffling. 

14 minutes ago, Eco said:

How did they beat Sunderland 5-1? It beggars belief after watching them tonight.

It’s the Championship. Mad-as-hell league…

2 hours ago, Alessandro said:

I agree with much of your post, it's a very sensible, realistic one.

But I just want to pick up on your sentences in bold - I've seen this kind of comment quite a lot on here recently:

Something along the lines of "this is the way it's alway's been with City" or "it used to be much worse" and "it's football, it's tough, nothing's a given" etc etc.

And I just don't like it. At all - it's so...defeatist. So unambitious. So mediocre.

Do you think that's the attitude Ipswich have at the moment? Or Luton before them. Or Brentford before them? I could go on.

Yes it's a tough league and nothing is a given, but we should as a club and a fan base, be striving and demanding so much more from the club, even with the level of investment, IMO, we should be competing higher up the league.

The reason's for that have been done to death - but I personally don't subscribe to this "it is what it is" attitude. 

I believe the "10 seasons in the championship" is not necessarily the badge of honour you think. Why:

Well IMO mid-table championship is Bristol City's par - the fact we've spent so much time under that level shows how we've underachieved as a club and the fact we've been talking about 'potential' for 20 years shows every year more at mid-table in the championship is not fulfilling our potential.

 

 

 

Of course. We should always strive to achieve and be successful. I was merely trying to provide some context. 

Plus, I remember some serious investment a few seasons back but that landed us in huge financial peril after Covid. It was not such a long ago we were second in the league at Christmas as a result of that investment. It’s not easy getting the balance right. 

13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Honestly, I won’t know until we see what happens over the rest of this season and the summers ins and outs.

But let’s just assume we get Tins no9 and no10 as per what he’s said as the significant signings and a bit of tit for tat with anyone else who leaves, gets replaced.

All things being equal, I’d expect:

• success to be playoffs
• met expectations to be a bloody good tilt at the playoffs, right in it up to the end(ish)
• failure a plodding season or worse

of course it can’t be as black and white as the above, but you get the gist.  It can’t be a plodding season.  I doubt  that would get him the sack either, I think bottom half would be though.

Nor do I hope it’s 46 games like Swansea’s performance either.

Whatever I think of Conway, losing him is not like losing Scott or Semenyo.

+++

how about you?

I think play-offs is out of reach as we stand (ie before summer recruitment - but it will need something significant to make us top six).  Success next season (for me) is top ten with some exciting performances. 
Failure is flirting with relegation/still looking  over our shoulder with ten games left. 

I think this league is brutal and there will be crap games and some poor performances. (I see myself as a realist.) We should kind of accept that , however frustrating it is.

I’ve no idea whether LM will ‘succeed’ or not, but I have some patience. I never bought the hierarchy’s supposed suggestion that we were capable of top six this season. They didn’t fund a big/strong enough squad for that. I take a lot of what football people say with a pinch of salt.

I can’t stand many of the unequivocal postings on this forum. They lack nuance and context. And I don’t like the personal attacks on LM. But that’s the world we live in: too much social media short-termism and knee-jerk reactions. Thirty years ago we went down the pub after a game, or whatever, and ranted with two or three mates about  a performance. Now we come on here and other sites, and everything is amplified. It’s nuts, frankly. Plus, some people take themselves far too seriously. I’ve hardly posted recently because I can’t be bothered with the aggro. 

Only two Bristol City managers in history have succeeded in getting us into the top division and I don’t even know the name of the first one. Mid-table in the Championship is not the worst place to be. Ten seasons in the Championship have been pretty good compared to many of the other forty-four seasons I’ve witnessed. I’d like to see us in the PL before I die but it’s a damn hard thing to achieve. It needs wisdom, skill, money, patience and luck. I’m not holding my breath. 

I really hate losing and I want every BC manager to succeed. I don’t mind a sacking (ruthless when necessary) but I think LM deserves more time. I’m surprised you’ve nailed your colours this early in his tenure but that’s your prerogative. I’ve seen good and bad under LM and I expect that will continue under him and every other BC manager I’ll see. Because that’s pretty much football life. 

 

57 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Short answer…yes.

Longer answer, because…two decent performances (and two good results, one of which was excellent) has been followed by a shitty performance and a lucky result imho.  So 3 games of a mix, don’t influence heavily enough the view I established over 27 previous games.

When James Piercy asked Hoggy on Thursday whether they’d used the two week break to change a couple of things, spoon feeding him “higher press” and “higher intensity” of the Leicester and Plymouth matches in the way he framed the question, I sat there with baited breath for the answer.  I expected a “yeah, we’ve picked up on a couple things, and tweaked it”.  Had I heard that I’d have started to think that maybe that stubborn streak of LM isn’t a rigid as I thought, and I could then start to look out for these “new signs”.

Instead, he said pretty categorically (paraphrased) “no, that was just down to the way our opponents play, gave us different spaces.”

So, I’m back to the cart (our opponent) driving the horse (LM’s game plan), not our head-coach being dynamic by instilling his identity rather than playing a weekly game of how do I tweak for this opponent, how do I tweak for that one.

Of course he may have been economical with the truth, a bit of pride trying to be retained, so today was a biggy for me.

So, I came away from that hugely despondent and no change in my stance.  And therefore today was hardly gonna change it was it?

So, if I were in charge I’d still sack him.  I’m not, so it’s just a case of “this is what I’d do”.  I don’t expect that many on here have reached a black and white position, like I have.  Most will want to see how he does over time.  I don’t.

+++

I did enjoy hearing from Hogg though, I thought he talked well, but the answer to JP’s question was like a dagger!!!

No, this is Fountain’s (see poster above) words / post I was responding to…nothing to do with LM’s post match comments.

I can critique LM’s if you like!

Seriously though, I had no real issues with what LM said post-match, apart from he used the word “fight” and I thought we weren’t “righty” today.

What does success or failure look like under Liam Manning for you, Dave? (I suppose I mean next season for now - let’s start with that.)

26 minutes ago, cityexile said:

FT 0-0. Not overrun second half but still somewhat lucky at times. Clean sheet, but somewhat flattering to get that. Decent away point overall, in difficult conditions.

A sound, level-headed summary.

8 hours ago, pillred said:

Imagine teams playing 2 games in 24 hours seems inconceivable, and that was in the days of no subs.

I know. Seems daft by modern standards.

As late as the 1974-75 season, we played Good Friday and then the following day. The reason I remember it was because it effectively cost us promotion. We won 1-0 at Southampton on Good Friday. Great result. Then the following day we played Norwich at home. They were one of our big promotion rivals. (They went up.) Norwich didn’t play the day before. So unjust by modern standards where the games are generally organised more fairly.

Our performance was, unsurprisingly, lethargic. We lost 1-0 and missed out on promotion. Made up for it the following season though. 

7 minutes ago, 22A said:

I'm told by older fans that City once lost 5-0 at Plymouth on Boxing Day and that goalie Tony Cook was drunk. The next day was the return fixture at AG. Bob Anderson replaced Tony C in goal and City won 6-0. 

Dunno about you, but I'd like to see a return to "local" derbies again at holiday times with the fixtures just 24 hours apart. For some reason they always lwd to odd score lines such as I detailed above.

1955

3 hours ago, City Rocker said:

I was at this game, I believe it was Good Friday 1985, my first visit to Home Park.

We lost 1-0 I think, and my memories include their mob trying to get out through the locked gates before the game to have a go at us in their car park, and also having lumps of concrete thrown at us during the game. Welcome to the mild south west.

I trust those going tomorrow enjoy more pleasant day out all round

Yep, it was a damp, miserable Good Friday. Tommy Tynan scored their winner late on when John Shaw, I think it was, misjudged a ball into our box. We had what seemed a good goal disallowed.
We were in with a chance of back-to-back promotions. We beat promotion rivals Hull on Easter Monday 2-0, but fell away. Won only four of our last nine to finish 5th, six points behind the third promotion spot. No play-offs in those days. 

17 hours ago, headhunter said:

Live on You Tube @ 6.00 then on Spotify etc later this evening

Can't deny the fact that City deserved all three points against a Leicester side who have now lost 4 of their last 6 games and in so doing might have to settle for a play-off spot despite leading the division for months.

Manning changed the formation which meant the left side was strong with Pring & the impressive Roberts. Mehemti was at his most infuriating but he capped his performance with a well struck winning goal.

Max O'Leary deserves praise for some fine saves and even his distribution was on point today.

What's the view on Twine and Conway for that matter - should we sign the former whilst did our Scottish U21 put some ££££ on his value based on today's performance.

Andrew Kitchen the ref, what a disgrace - showed unbelievable "big team" favouritism 

Overall though one swallow does not a summer make but things aren't perhaps as bad as some of us are making out?

 

 

Good points towards the end of the pod about the bitter, personal and relentless negativity (it’s embarrassing) and ‘learning on the job.’ If you’re not learning on the job, you’re not doing your job. 

37 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

Despite supposedly losing the dressing room, being out of his depth, and boring I'd say our manager deserves a lot of credit for today's excellent victory against Premier League bound Leicester.

Although I expect several of you to disagree.

 

Yes, it’s amazing what you can achieve despite only having one eighth of the wisdom, tactical nous and man management and media skills of all the wise owls on this forum. 

5 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

That foul on Wells was a stonewall penalty too

It’s astonishing, isn’t it. He just shoved him over in the box. How is that not a foul? 

23 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Whilst we probably have enough points not to be troubling the bottom 3, based on current form, that might not still be the case by the last game of the season.

The only thing that makes this unlikely is that those in the bottom 3 are unlikely to pick up many points either.

Unlikely or mathematical scenarios have happened before though, like the time the Sags were dumped out of the football league

I only start to relax when we have 53pts. And only relax fully when the arithmetic says we are safe. This season is no different. We still have a bit to do. 

1 hour ago, oldie said:

Showing my age here, but I remember a certain Gerry Gow “flashing the v’s (as we used to say) at the Dolman Stand. The fans had been giving the team some stick,  when losing 0-1 against Carlisle (I think), after a couple of very late goals bought us a win. 

I never understand why “fans” think they can dish it out, only to get distraught when a player shows any sort of reaction. 
 

 

 

For a City 'legend', he used to get hammered by some fans at certain times in his career. 

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Half a season is plenty long enough to get a decent feel.

By my models, non-penalty xg has gone from 0.1003 (10% per chance) to 0.0776 (7.8% per chance).

What about our opponents' Xgs? How have they changed or otherwise?

18 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Ian Gay tonight:

 

Who’s on anyway @headhunter? Ian on or is he busy with a prior engagement in Brian’s rectum?

Why are abusive about someone's opinions on a podcast you don't have to listen to/can simply ignore. You have enough opinions - why don't you create your own podcast if you don't like what you hear from Ian G? 

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Can I guess who we are talking about?

And therefore I’m guessing we need to get to 16 wins on the Gay-ometer, because he said that Nige getting 15 wins last season was crap / sackable because he got 15 wins the season before….completing ignoring that we lost less and drew more, ie we improved overall (55 pts to 59 pts).

So 16 wins but less than 59 points is better?  Hmmmmm!!!

 

No. It had nothing to do with that.

15 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

I would hope that Manning watched Swansea play the way he seems to want us to play and might realise how ineffective it can be without the best players in the division. Swansea didn’t have a single shot on target all game and our only effort on target was the goal. If you wanted to see how football dies, this would have been prime evidence!

Swansea seem to me to be one of the most boring teams in league. Their 72 per cent possession stat is meaningless. For a team like us, we kind of had to play the way we did today to beat them. 
Imagine how their fans must have reacted to today. (I’ve seen how some of our fans have .)

26 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

For the credibility of the hierarchy I'd say real and discernible improvement is needed. A sense that we are moving forward.

Some of the foundations look okay indeed solid in a range of ways but they twisted, they made a change to try and push forward.. the Championship could be a bit less top heavy next year.

We have to seize a bit of momentum, look to make a push.

I don’t disagree with that but I don’t see it as do or die. Perhaps I just have a little more patience than some, however much I hate it when we lose. 
 

2 hours ago, Tim Monaghan said:

This is exactly where I'm at, next season is probably one of the most crucial I can remember.  I never thought that we would be up there this season even though JL and GM alluded (more than alluded) to it after Pearsons sacking.  Basically they had to say that, however, that has heaped the pressure on for next season x100.  Of course, a lot of people were fuming at the way the sacking of Nigel was done, myself included. It was toxic wasn't it, but imagine how toxic it will become if we aren't challenging next year. I include myself into this. At the end of the day, I think Manning is the right fit for the club, and actually one of the most exciting managerial appointments for me since, well, Nigel, but he will have to deliver. If Liam doesn't deliver next season, well, I think JL and SL are in deep.........  You can't recover from that can you really, especially with the history they've got when it comes to managerial appointments and the league position that we were in when the NP sacking was made.

I really hope it doesn't get to that stage, and JL, BT and GM will be fully aware of the fans feeling around this.  As the post above states, there really isn't any excuses next season to be up there after what JL, GM and BT have said. None whatsoever. It really is do or die and this is the final straw with the fans I feel. 

We are certainly in for an interesting season, that's for sure. 

 

It really isn’t do or die, though, is it? We all hope next season is an improvement on this one, as this season has been a small improvement on the last one. Too many fans at too many clubs want to be angry or become angry about too much. We all hope for better but we’ll be better off if we leave the hyperbole aside. 
There will be another season after the next one and another season after that.

22 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

Where did the cock in the middle get that from then? QPR spent the whole second half on the floor time wasting.

I thought post Qatar and heading into this season proper added time was going to be played?

Far from the reason we lost but clearly an absolute incompetence from the referee

It was astonishing, wasn't it?  A time-wasters' charter. Their tactics broke up any flow or momentum, which was what it was designed to do. (We would have done the same, I'm sure.)

To those that say 'we never would have scored', that's certainly possible. But we definitely won't be able to score after the final whistle. We nearly did from that late corner, and we've all seen very late goals in games. At least apply the laws properly. 

1 hour ago, handsofclay said:

 

Correct it wasn't a ticket game, the capacity (37,000) was exceeded and just under 39,000 announced as the gate. A good couple of thousand were also locked outside. 

I don't know if the exceeding of the capacity by nearly 2,000 had an effect upon the capacity the next season onwards which was reduced to 32,000. 

I remember being in the Open End on that Monday night, where Garland headed the winner against Clemence. I think the first was a diving header near halftime in the East End goal to equalise Johnson's opener for Liverpool. 

It was (a diving header, that is). I think the winner was a header as well.

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

A huge sense of disappointment, frustration and anger about the second half performance.

No problem with a half-time sub (assume Cornick a knock), but why the change in shape from the first half where we controlled so much of the 45 mins?

They played through us, around us, behind us.  We had no answer.  CB spacing went to pot as they slid in their forwards.

To end, well done though, three points, winless run over, a big boost after a tough set of fixtures.

And chilllllllllll.

That’s a fair point if we’d had six days to prepare like Boro and not 120 minutes on Wednesday. But we looked shattered in the second half. Rob Dickie was knackered. 

I didn’t see it at the ground because I was caught outside in the ticket-distribution fiasco. But it looks a clear and outrageous handball. I thought so the first time I saw it on the highlights. 

It seems to me, though, that although they had VAR in operation, there were very few cameras, which seems ridiculous. Someone might know more about this. Were there other angles? 

54 minutes ago, Manon said:

Tbf I think they're all gonna miss!

But Bell didn't miss. It was saved.

It was one of those, granted, at the 'wrong' height, but the keeper goes the other way and no one bats an eye and calls it a good pen.  

Misses a penalty is a generic term as you well know. 
And it was a poor penalty: no deception in it, nice height, not in the corner. But someone has got to miss. So no blame. He played well.