firstdivision

10 hours ago, Lew-T said:

Yes.

And that’s not because of a couple losses in the league either. 20 years of failure and making the same mistakes.

The club is stale and needs freshening up.

Well, 14 of those years have been spent in the Championship, Lew, which is considerably better than the 20 years previously and actually compares pretty favourably with the spread of our 130-odd-year history. All depends how you look at it.
 

I would say the last ten years have not been matched since the 70s. But it’s hard to find any perspective these days. That’s not to say I’m not desperate for greater success but we’ve been pretty ordinary for a large part of our history, and more ordinary more often than recently. 

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think the thing you have to remember is that in the light of a good result anything classed as negative gets shouted down (and equally, in the case of a poor result anything good gets shouted down). No issue in that, it’s the way of a forum.

What I think you’re missing is that people like @Davefevs, myself etc are more looking at the thematics. We lost to Preston today - that happens. But if it happens as part of a wide thematic theme of Liams game management, and if the overall strategy seems misaligned, then we’ll (and others) will call it. I wanted the Lansdowns gone and expressed concerns over Liam post Watford. I’m in that boat now. A win over West Ham won’t change it. A long term change will.

If anyone is calling for the Lansdowns to go based on today it’s unreasonable. But as a thematic, it’s totally justified.

My point really was more about telling them to ‘eff off’. A logical and reasoned analysis is fine. So too is wanting them to leave, if that’s what you believe. 

8 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Oh no

What makes me laugh is that no one was telling the Lansdowns to eff off after we drew at West Ham, or won at Watford to make three wins in a row. We lose at Preston and the toys come out. It’s pathetic and childish. And so is the abuse. 
I’d have far more respect for our keyboard-warrior supporters if they called for the Lansdowns to go after every win. 
Do you think @Davefevs (our most thoughtful and constructive poster) resorts to this sort of abuse? But fill your boots supporting abuse if that’s what makes you happy. 

 

20 minutes ago, Jose said:

I’d imagine we willl be saying the same thing this time next season and the season after that and the season after that. 
 

The sooner the Lansdowns **** off the better.

I’m sorry, this sort of abuse disgusts me. It is unnecessary and uncivilised. 

TGH has to do better with that early chance (different game then) but it was a truly awful second half performance. No agression. Too many basic errors. No idea how we were trying to score. We couldn’t cope with a poor pitch and stubborn oppo whose changes at ht helped them grab the initiative.

15 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Fair enough, thought the challenge was firm and late, but nothing more. Yellow card for me.

The penalty though, what is the defender supposed to do in that situation coming at speed taking the ball away? 
 

Don’t agree with both decisions

I would suggest, Lew, that’s because you don’t understand the laws as they are currently written. But you’ll probably disagree with that as well. 

7 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Not a great OP to talk about the game but….

Some questionable refereeing decisions in this one.

I thought ref got both decisions just about right. (Could have been red for Cov defender.) Lee Hendrie’s analysis shows he doesn’t understand the laws as they are. Amateurish summariser.

Even Nige thought ref was right on both - and he doesn’t tolerate refs easily.

6 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Cracking game, just spoiled by Darren England. Never a pen.

I actually thought it was a penalty and a probably a red card (not yellow) under the current laws. He’s not in control of his body. He follows through high onto the right thigh area of the Leicester player. Doesn’t matter that he got the ball first. Fans don’t know the laws. They just decide their view on what they want the laws to be. 

44 minutes ago, North London Red said:

TV could also be a factor here given a couple of replays will be televised live. I suspect the TV companies are waiting for the result of tonight's final third round game before deciding which replays to show, and on what days. If Man Utd draw at Wigan tonight I wouldn't be surprised if ITV wanted to show the replay at Old Trafford (Man Utd games command significantly higher advertising revenue than games involving most other clubs).

Oh, they’ll be tempted by that all right. The magic of the cup goes out the window when there’s a chance to show a Manchester United game. 

32 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Out of interest, did anybody who bought seats in the home areas have them cancelled as threatened by BCFC? I didn’t have any problems. Apart from trying to look upset when we equalised.

Not me and four others. My daughter had a theory that the West Ham support was so subdued because it was full of City fans trying to be quiet. 

The support looked fantastic from among the home fans.

The equaliser was a tough moment of suppressed elation. Just had to sit back and purr at the clinical finish.

Loads of grumbling from the home fans. Slightly disappointed we couldn’t quite find a winner. Great that we more than gave them a game though. Vyner, on the ball, was superb. 

2 hours ago, old_eastender said:

Exactly what I was thinking would be so annoyingly typical for us to lose to a bottom 6  side having beaten 3 play off contenders in a row!

That’s the Championship though, oe. Not much between most of the teams. 

41 minutes ago, Leveller said:

I foolishly left it too late to get a ticket - despite having as ST.

However, I went and signed up on the West Ham website and have just bought tickets, which went on general sale at 2pm - no payment for membership required, just create an account.These are etickets which will be sent out seven days or so before the match.

Personally I dont mind being in the home areas and for £25 I've got tickets at the side of the stadium, where I prefer the view.

I had to put my address in (Somerset) but it doesnt seem to exclude by postcode or anything.

So if you missed out, there are plenty of tickets available, provided being in the away fans' area isnt crucial to you.

Quiet please, Leveller. Best to let people use their own initiative. And not broadcast it for those who have.

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Think you both raise perfectly good arguments and I agree.

I constantly come back to - if we’d spent another £3m plus wages in the summer on TWO players of the calibre of Knight and Dickie, might we be a lot closer to the top 6 than we are?

Off the back of £20-25m for Alex Scott.  I don’t buy the “budgets set in March / front loaded the signings” bollox.  That was retrofitted because they’d moved into “sack Nige” plans.

Wasted opportunity, and going over old ground, to spite Nige, or at least make it more difficult for him.

One thing I've been wrestling with is why they didn't sack NP at the end of last season. That actually would have made more sense than doing it when they did if you believe, as I do, that they essentially wanted to get rid. The fan unrest would have been there but would have had no focal point - two months until the next game etc. The new man would have time to work with the players, and we could have recruited properly with the board presumably wanting to support a new manager.

They sacked NP at the first relatively opportune moment anyway (after 5 defeats in 7). They must have known we wouldn't really be challenging for the top six.

Of course, they wouldn't have appointed LM in the summer.

Perhaps they had vague notions rather than clear plans.

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

Hmmm………not so sure that City deserved to win the game, a draw was what the game deserved Imo. If I were a Mackam I’d be hugely disappointed that I’m heading home with nothing from the game.

The possession stat show how dominant they were.

I’ve long felt that deserved to win is one of the most overused and meaningless expressions in football.

I’m sure you’ll agree that so is using possession stats to determine who should have won. Sunderland played some delightful football (I’d love to see us emulate them) but they didn’t do enough to draw this particular football match…for one very obvious reason. 

That was a true Nigel Pearson-style battling performance. We’d have lost that game under Liam Manning. 

33 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I wish he’d stop using the term midget!!!

Agree.

Ian is a good broadcaster/podcaster:  good diction, nice turn of phrase, and articulate with a clearly argued point of view. He makes me laugh, not necessarily because he’s trying to be funny but because he’s so irascible and opinionated. He’s the best aspect of the podcast, even if you disagree with his opinions. I too would liked to have heard more of Ian discussing matters with Dave F. 

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Really getting fed up of hearing "give him time"

I believe this is the worst start for a manager of ours for 20 years? 

This guy has come in and with his new style has our decent team looking over our shoulders at the relegation zone. 

So yea, I'm sorry that I'm worried about that! 

At first and still to quite a degree my anger is/was directed at the owners. 

As I said in another post, Bristol City are not a charity. We are not here to give managers work experience and let them learn on the job. Been down that route far too many times now. 

He came in and gave us a style none of us asked for. He's come in and made some baffling selection choices and substitutions. So now, to a lesser extent my anger is shifting from owners to him. 

Will you still be saying give him time if we're in the relegation zone? 

If we're in that relegation zone by the time the transfer window opens then I'd not feel comfortable cracking open the nest egg as a solution to get us back to where we bloody was! 

 

We live in an instant social-media driven society that really has no basis in reality. The bloke has had SIX games. Of course he needs some time. Anyone would think we were any good before he took over (15th was it?). We’re just not that good.

Everyone needs to calm down a bit. What do you actually want to happen? Would you prefer us to struggle just so you can be right? 

Life is far more nuanced than you suggest. 

NP irritated the hell out of me some of the time but I always wanted us to win and I wanted him to succeed. I think the board got the timing of his sacking hopelessly wrong. But I want Liam Manning to succeed because life is too short not to want to feel happy on a Saturday and Tuesday/Wednesday evening (after a win), not angry and bitter, and harking back to a marriage that’s not going to be revived. 

I’ve seen over fifty years of this club’s football and I can’t remember a more knee-jerk reaction to a new manager. It’s been far from perfect, and deeply frustrating at times. But we’ve been in every game and could have got something from all of them. 
If we lose nine in a row - like a previously successful manager incidentally - you can fill your boots if you want. 

10 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

When he joined I made a comparison with Clough taking over after Rennie at Leeds. I did point out that our situation wasn't to that extreme. But there were some similarities. I got laughed out of the building for suggesting that. 

Manning came in and essentially did what Clough did. And that was to rip everything up and say its my way now. 

Whilst I appreciate Manning wanted to get his principles in from day 1. I think it should have been more like what you suggest. An evolution, not a mid season revolution. 

It was Revie. Clough was a one-off maverick. He told the Leeds players that they'd won their medals by cheating. Leeds had been very successful under Revie. Apart from just about all the details, yeah pretty similar.

8 hours ago, IAmNick said:

I think some of my confusion tonight was that it seemed a bit of a step back from the way I thought we were going to be playing, and our success came as you mentioned from a more Pearson style approach to the game.

The passing along and out from the back was more direct, and we were hassling and trying to win the ball higher up the pitch - and getting some success when we did so as well.

It was a bit of a confused performance for me, and that was reflected in how the game changed significantly with both sets of our subs.

My impression of the first half was that the players said ‘let’s go back to how we were playing before LM came in.’ Mind you, it was dire, which is kind of why the board made the change in the first place.
We improved when we started to pass it. Eg lovely move down the right that ended with Knight’s shot saved by keeper to his left. 

5 hours ago, Harry said:

Ha ha. I’m absolutely not head over heels for Manning. 
I think if you look back I was actually the first one on this forum to write, detail and analyse how I didn’t think his style would suit our current squad. 
The only defence I’ve given to him is that I actually feel a bit sorry for him because of the drivel the board proclaimed and thus placed unnecessary expectations on him from day 1, and that I feel we need to separate our anger at the board and at least give the bloke a bloody chance (not 5 games!!) 

Harry, that post is far too rational and sensible for those who have already decided on their narrative. 

15 minutes ago, Ziderarmy said:

Since the new gaffer has come in I’d suggest this is relegation form. 

Just continuing where NP left off. We lost 5 out 7 at the end of his time. We’re just not very good and we’re a few players short. 

5 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I posted a few days ago that I think the appointment of Manning was in a lot of ways a reaction to what’s happening at Ipswich, both in terms of it being the latest thing that brings success (see Luton) and that there would be a part of the Lansdowns who look at Mark Ashton in harness with a head coach and think “hey, we were right after all”

As Fevs said in that thread, the trouble is that’s viewing the outcome and not the process. It seems McKenna is just exceptionally good and following the same approach may not give the same result.

It’s not just Ipswich though, Silvio. Quite a few clubs are going for the younger coaching ‘guru’ type (eg, Swed and QPR. Indeed, Oxford to replace Manning). Brighton went down that route a while back. So too Swansea. 

5 minutes ago, Bas's perfect hattrick said:

When was the last first team we sent out on loan? It must have been a while

When was the last time we loaned out our joint-leading scorer to a L1 team?