firstdivision

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

I’m rather encouraged by what I’ve seen so far with Manning. I know many won’t agree but that’s how I feel. 
 

I am keen to separate the performances under Manning from the ridiculous decisions and comments from Jon, Brian & Gavin. 
 

The reasons for sacking Pearson were, as we all know, spurious. 
Their comments about top 6, top end, best squad etc etc were again, spurious. 
 

I’ve said clearly on threads at that time that I will very much be judging the hierarchy on those comments and expectations. 
 

However, I am not judging Manning on those same comments and expectations. I will judge Manning on what I see on the field. 
 

In my opinion, the squad which Pearson had was a squad which I thought would be about 10th-15th, and would be one where we’d see less of the ball and be rather stodgy. A counterattack team which might get a few results against the grain but generally have less of the play but get enough results for mid table. 
I wasn’t expecting any more than that. 
 

With Manning, my expectations aren’t changing. I still think this is a mid table squad. 
However, I am really encouraged (and frankly amazed) that he’s got this team playing dominant possession football and having twice as many chances as the opposition. 
I actually really like how we’ve played so far. Yes, the results haven’t been there but I’ve enjoyed seeing a City team having 60%+ possession, looking like the better football team, being creative up front and making plenty of decent chances. I also liked today the battling qualities we showed - the 2nd half conditions were horrendous and we had to scrap for loose balls and aerials and we won more than our fair share - for once it seemed like the 2nd balls and ricochets mostly went our way, when can we ever say that as a City fan! Thats not luck. Its effort. 
 

Yes, we could easily have won today. We could easily have won v Norwich. We could have got a point at Southampton. We didn’t. And that will rightly be questioned, but the performances, for me, have been encouraging. 
 

Whatever Lansdown and Tinnion said, I will judge them at the end of the season. Failure is on their heads. 
For Manning, I’m positively encouraged by how he’s managing to get this team playing - I like what I’ve seen so far. I don’t think we’re too far off. Most of the goals against haven’t been anything to do with system, shape, management etc they’ve mostly been basic individual errors. 
Yes, those things will happen (they happened under Nige too). But overall I’m actually quite happy so far. 

I agree with most of this, Harry.
Very disappointed we didn’t win today because we controlled the game (Huddersfield gave up trying to win it) but there was a lot to encourage us as well. Huddersfield could easily get relegated but few games are straightforward in this league. We need a 2/3 more players and to be more ruthless (in attack and defence). 

14 hours ago, italian dave said:

Definite yes for me.

I support Bristol City…..not particular managers (or owners).

And I’ve seen us in far worse times, and with far worse prospects, than we have now. 

I wasn’t going to reply. Then I saw you used every word that I would have used. 

I suppose he hadn’t lost two in a row, the latest one in the last minute to a piece of dire defending, at the Hen and Chickens  - an altogether less stressful and frustrating situation. 

Anyway, it’s early days. I’ve said before that I didn’t enjoy NP’s football very much but I wouldn’t have sacked him. The board should have read the room and realised that enough fans were behind him. But it’s far too early to judge LM. I actually thought we were superb for 15 minutes before half time and we could have cleaned Norwich out.

And an ordinary Stoke side did the same to NP as an ordinary Norwich side did to LM today.
 

We’re just not very good. We didn’t strengthen enough in the summer. Poor from the board after the sale of AS. We’re at least two players short. NP was left short. And now LM is finding out what it’s like having to bring on AM and HC. 

3 hours ago, spudski said:

...' It's a mindset and Culture that needs to be changed'...regarding winning. 

WTF...seriously? 

So Nige hadn't installed that? **** off.

I know lots of people like his talk...but I'm find him just waffling coaching spiel when asked questions. 

Doesn't take time to think of answers...it's all embedded. 

Over time he's gonna come out worse than LJ for it imo. 

I don't mind his football...but he's already grating on me in interviews. 

 

The biggest problem with the club interviews are the awful questions he’s asked. It means the interview doesn’t work as a piece of meaningful communication. 

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

It was not a bad performance.

It was a typical Bristol City performance of this season, based on the ability of the squad we have / have available.  Full of endeavour, sticking in a game, working hard, having the odd good spell - we have more good spells against the poorer teams, less against the better teams.  I honestly don’t think Southampton were on the ropes.  If I second guess you and refer to the period of the game where we fashioned our chances, Conway, Sykes, Conway….Southampton created chances, more chances in that period than us.

It is possible to highlight positive things (as you’ve done), and it’s possible to highlight negative things (as others have done).  The performance contained both.

I see a couple of differences in “tactics”, but I don’t think they are necessarily leading to the Eureka moments some are making out.

LM looks like he’s a good fit to continue Nige’s work.  It will be a bit different, but so far it appears to be pretty similar.

All imho.

Far too sensible, Dave, with not enough headline-catching observations.

Absolutely typical performance. We are 12th. We've beaten one team above us (they are 10th) and six teams below us. That's where we are. We don't have a play-off squad, despite what JL asserted. I was really disappointed with yesterday's second half - we were outplayed, or out-controlled - but it didn't surprise me.

I wouldn't have sacked NP, although his football was pretty dull to watch and bored me a lot of the time. I'm reasonably pragmatic though. I hope LM can makes us more interesting to watch (although I hope it won't be Martin-ball). That will take time. We don't have enough players at the moment who are really comfortable on the ball. 

First time we’ve started with this eleven. 

54 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

If (and appreciate that is the longest word in the English language) Nige had stayed and the injuries cleared up,  could top 6 have been possible? A lot of people thought so only maybe a month ago? If so why not now?

I’ve always thought top six this season was pie in the sky. Still do. 
I thought we were capable of an improvement on last season. Still do. 

6 hours ago, Not Banksy said:

Just thinking... can't be many situations where a new manager (head coach) comes in after a sacking with the team 4 points off the play offs.

Birmingham City a few weeks ago? 

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Undoubtedly.

Do you know what frustrated me a bit yesterday?  Was how loose we became late in the game (back to that in a minute).  I was generally happy with us with the ball.  Each time we injected tempo with a first time pass, we looked threatening, breaking lines. creating overloads.  We couldn’t always do it…and tried to be patient.

In terms of stats, at quick glance our Match Tempo (passes per minute) was the highest of the season, but when you make 667 passes, 250 more than average, there is a tendency to pass for passings sake, so the data is misleading.  And those times we did inject tempo it made us look so much better than when we knocked it about in pedestrian style.  I think we lacked confidence, more than poorly coached, I thought there were times we could’ve pushed the tempo.  But generally I was happy we were trying to pass our way to creating chances.  That’s not an easy transition for a side like us, although TGH helps.

I also think we ended up after the subs with a lack of discipline in our side forwards roles, especially last 15.  Firstly I think Mehmeti did absolutely fine with the ball, and I think he works hard too, but he charged around a bit, and got bypassed by the clever Valentin, who Pring did well to contain.  On the other side Bell did little with the ball, bar the scuff that hit the post, but switched off without the ball.  Sykes got left on his own too often, which is crazy with a one-man advantage.  I’m not sure Sykes going to RB is that great an option anyway.  On paper against 10-men, I see the sense, with Tanner just back, but I don’t think it has worked that well for us.  Sykes influences better from RF.  I would’ve sooner seen JKL on.

That’s my thoughts anyway!

Very good observations, Dave. I couldn’t go to the game yesterday because I wasn’t in the country but I was shouting and swearing at my laptop for the reasons you articulate. 

Last 15: there were at least a couple of occasions when we just needed to move the quickly ball to an unmarked player to open them up. And totally agree about the tactical nous of our forward subs. My god…

One thing it’s easy to overlook, I suppose, is the deeply human side - the potential for panic, the thought that, ‘we really should be beating this lot. They’re bottom. They have ten. But they won’t lie down. And they’ve got some big lads for set pieces. And. And. And.’ The negative voice on your shoulder. 

A good confident side would have seen them off comfortably, though. Sam Bell would have seen them off if he’d taken one quick touch before shooting. Control left, bang right either side of keeper. Even so, one touch should have been enough. 

When you see Sam Bell’s miss, you wonder what a clear goal-scoring opportunity is for us. But surely this is a clear goal-scoring opportunity. Sheffield-born Hackett’s angle doesn’t take into account our players free left and right either. 
If that had happened against us, I couldn’t make out a really strong case for a yellow. It was an unusual situation, though. 
 

3 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

6 out of a possible 18 points, 15th in the table, squad decimated and the managers refusal to utilise the loan and free agent market hampering us. 
Relationship between manager and owner not great. 
 

Manager not the type the owners want moving forward (want a head coach who is more hands on)

 

It really isn’t that mind boggling a decision. He’s done his job, thanks and move on.

You won’t get anywhere on this forum at the moment with opinions like that but I know supporters who have pretty similar views to you. They don’t come on here. They’re not social media posters. And they probably wouldn’t want the emoji barrage anyway. 

i wouldn’t have sacked him, but the case for the defence is not water tight (as you set out). 
 

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I tend to agree…pass, pass, pass without purpose is boring.  Pass, pass, pass with purpose, even if it appears to be boring, but has manoeuvred players into positions to go for the jugular is a bit different (eg Man City).  But you need excellent technicians for that imho.

If I was to look at a Championship style I like from what I’ve seen this season it would be Rosenior’s Hull City.  Great patterns, sucked us in and then exploited the gaps.  Perversely when we dropped in a bit (mid-block) it caused them issues, and in fact it was us playing “fast, attacking, football”, so we need the Chairman to talk about his stuff, and let the football people do the explaining.

This sums it up perfectly for me!

I’d be interested to watch the rest of Manning’s Coaches Voice presentation because I’d imagine you’d start to get a feel beyond the bullshit bingo.

There were two really good ones I watched recently.  Russell Martin (who boils my piss) did an excellent one from last season at Swansea, although you could see the flaws in it as soon as they were without the ball.  The other was Rob Edwards of Luton.

I still have no idea who is gonna take charge, and in many respects I don’t care.

Liam Rosenoir is a coach to keep an eye on. I know a perceptive Hull supporter who was convinced they'd finish top six this season. I've heard you say he's bit of a moaner, Dave, but plenty are in football.  I know someone who's known him since he was a lad - always said he was bright and a nice lad. His dad's a decent bloke, too. I know that from personal experience. We could do much worse than Liam, not that I think it's a likely option this time.

4 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

For those of us who don’t know, could you enlighten us as to where the article you refer to may be found?

It’s under the thread Board Interference.

Perfectly well written, albeit subjective, article but it doesn’t tell us anything new. It’s a rehash of everything that’s on here.  And few people outside Bristol give a flying fig about our club so it’s not exactly taking our dirty laundry to a national audience. I speak as someone who lives in London.

More interesting is James Piercy’s piece about the last weeks of the messiah. 

43 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

This went both ways and actually it was Jon Lansdown who started it last season when he called out Nigel as underperforming in a radio interview and said we had a top six squad, to everyone’s bemusement.

Complete and utter delusion from the daddy’s boy, and Steve is the same.

Aaron, I've had a look back at the quotes from young Lansdown in Feb 2022. He said we should be performing better than we were. Not a particularly controversial statement in my opinion - I think most fans would have felt the same. Some might think it's a stinging criticism but what chairman is going to say 'nah, 17th, with 10 wins from 32 is fine' when asked a question on radio? That's where we were at the time.

It's actually quite a tricky question to answer unless you are skilfully media trained and can see the potential traps. He can't really do the following: 'So John, you're 17th. How do you feel it's going?' 'Oh, really well. 17th was always the plan at this stage.' Fans think: 'are you sure?'

I can't find any quotes in that interview that said we had a top-six squad at the time. (Someone else might be able to find them from Feb 2022.)

NP publicly disagreed with him and called the club's previous transfer policy 'bonkers' and 'who does that?' That's quite a strong criticism in football terms, even if you think it's true.

At that point, NP was a year into the job. Are you sure he hadn't said anything publicly about the club's way of operating before that?

1 minute ago, johnbytheriver said:

It is not brutal, modern football.Its just an idiot called lansdown who knows absolutely nothing about football.

Ok. Thanks for letting me know, John.

7 hours ago, petehinton said:

**** me. Like choosing what STI to catch. 

Good joke but it’s not though, is it? All three have had some success in the Championship. Who would you go for, Pete? 

8 hours ago, Baldyman said:

Do we know whether Euell and Rennie were also sacked or did they walk as a result of Nige’s sacking ? If the latter , this would suggest no such plan tbh. Also why hold on to Flemming and sack the others , if that’s what they did ? 

These are good questions. I don’t think we know the answers yet. 

11 hours ago, WarksRobin said:

I suspect they will approach Coventry for Mark Robins

That certainly crossed my mind. 

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, just got on with it with the odd little moan, which is fair enough.

Yesterday as a fan I was pleased with how we battled.  But Nige as manager was disappointed, thought we should’ve got something, wasn’t happy with how the goals came about.  He showed how he didn’t want to expose the youngsters in this environment, which has been his mantra all along.  He will happily play them but when it’s right.  And yet some in the heirarchy question him opting to play Andy King.  It’s like he’s never ever played an academy lad.

It just doesn’t add up.

You say ‘the odd little moan’, Dave. Don’t you think there were enough digs at the hierarchy to make it pretty clear what he thought? Also, his comments have effectively rallied his supporters in the fan base behind him, and created an us and them situation. Don’t you think he knew what he was doing and couldn’t help himself? No football hierarchy likes being called out in public. Never has, never will. 

I wouldn’t have sacked him, and I think SL made a strategic error by not releasing some funds from the AS sale, but surely no one is particularly surprised that it’s happened. People are angry, yes (not me btw - I just think this is brutal, modern football. My reading is the we reached a clutch moment where we had to make a big decision, contract or no new contract, with planning for the future required, eg January window.) 

The narrative about NP’s seeming clash with the board has come from one person: NP. Not least because the hierarchy has largely been silent (apart, perhaps, from the telling statement that none of the AS money was made available.)

29 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

You don’t think Lee Johnson knew what was going on with the club’s financial situation during his time here? He wasn’t the only one guilty, Lansdown should never have let it happen. But he sign every player he thought could take us to the promised land a failed miserably.

You’re going to have to help me out with this sentence, Ivan. 

7 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

A trio that combined managed to financially hamstring the club and fail to deliver the stated objective. 
 

But hey, we beat Man U and had a good pre Xmas spell one year.  

And I bet you loved it at the time. I bet you didn’t think ‘you know what, this bit of success is all well and good but that Lee Johnson is not trying to get us promotion or to a Wembley final, the scoundrel is trying to ruin my club.’ 

1 minute ago, Sir Geoff said:

You really are John. Time for bed and put the crayons away somewhere safe.

The level of discourse goes up another notch. Nice one, Sir Geoff.  

8 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

He ran the club into the ground just by getting up in the morning. He didn’t have to think about it, it was always going to happen. 

Just by getting up in the morning. Really? I didn’t know that. Thanks. 

11 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Spending £60m+ & 68 players signed trebling the wage bill to finish ******* twelfth 

So was that Mark Ashton to blame? Or Steve Lansdown who sanctioned it? (I get confused who we should hate the most at any given time).
And did we bring in any money in from transfers? Did some players leave to offset the 68?  And did a world pandemic happen? And is there any nuance left in the world? So many questions.