Mr Popodopolous

Going in aiming for Promotion. We will have 4 or 5 Parachute clubs in the League depending on who wins the playoffs. Top 2 just feels unlikely as any kind of realistic goal, a crack at the top 6 more feasible. Ipswich caught that magic in a bottle and I suppose if you get on a roll, have a fast start and loads goes your way but come on..a lot of their squad individually is nothing incredible. Otoh the 3 who drop maybe a bit weaker.

Thanks Dave. Listening now.. bit curious that Tom Rawcliffe didn't mention Community Trust expenditure? As we and everyone on this thread knows we hope: *Depreciation (Plus Impairment) of Fixed Assets. *Youth Expenditure *Ladies Team Football Expenditure *Community Trust *Plus of course, Amortisation and Impairment of Intangible Assets excluding Player Related. Capital Spend is of course Balance Sheet and or Cash Flow in most instances albeit not always- some of the Everton Stadium expenditure appesred under Profit and Loss but most often it wouldn't hit the P&L anyway

Wouldn't have a great issue with 2 or 3 to fill the squad to 24, 25. Ideally keep who we wanna keep too, James, Williams, Conway and all other key while 2-3 can ice the cake. Ideally not of the level of Dire, quality rather than quantity etc but can be a good alternative to splashing millions.. However if it is scattergun, or to replace key players either sold or not renewed thst sounds like a road to chaos.

Part of that was a hedge, when you are in the FFP shit that we were loans that entail healthy wage contributions and a loan fee offen,they aren't feasible. Only when Semenyo went and the prior high earners left in January and summer 2023 did we have breathing room really. Albeit had we kept Scott I wonder how much scope to add this season? I estimated £10-15m this season headroom post sale and maybe more. @petehinton Agree with what you say, but also IMO adding loan fee dependent players not feasible between January 2022 and the Semenyo sale, maybe even a bit longer.

Well for one we never entered the relegation zone under NP or if we did it was 2-3 games early season. Secondly we were a big hitter in the third tier. At this level from a budgetary (not income but budget) we are middling probably if not a bit lower. Thirdly we had the budget of Wilson near enough in his 1st year, Accounts show it and Lita was stepping up yet we regressed- less said about his 2nd year the better- whereas under NP we made cuts, we had to and some sales. He stabilised us while steadily improving the underlying numbers from a horribly low base. I'll give credit for adding Orr and Brooker, Brown if not for injuries did he have injuries, I thought he had promise at one point. Lita flew and flourished and was sold yes. However we worsened sharply whereas NP lost his best and was holding the level if not improving us.

Happy to look back albeit I question how feasible loans were for a good chunk given how hamstrung via FFP we were. Post the sale of Scott, another couple of key loans to ice the cake could have made a great difference.

Why might that be.. Because he was hugely restricted that is why!! "The budget is the budget"..remember. Or words to that effect.

That surely isn't a serious comparison?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/23501929 Others can go through the Accounts for 2007-08 to 2012-13, I might later but I took it to mean £50m over x years.

Was it not £50m in total? Maybe from 2007-2013, and including not only his contribution to fees, but wages, Agents Fees. Nothing like in the 2007-08 season but over several years perhaps. He could've been referring to equity and or Cash Flow.

The thing is both these statements are true. For a relegated side it is usually somewhere between 25-50% in cuts. Not all sides of course. TV money falls by 90% if you are talking PL to Championship perhaps more. Granted player sales, replacement with cheaper, letting contracts expire etc are already part of the process but I just wonder if Parachute Payments were abolished or cut to the level of Championship Solidarity Payments.

They managed him rather closely, as a team/squad well above the sum of their parts IMO and it was a 1 in 20 type season in which yes they did brilliantly but everything went right too.

They still are very bullish, some of them I should add. Not looked at a wide cross section but Ipswich had new owners in 2021, it would be a risk of course but I do believe new ownership or impetus or direction is required here badly.

Sounds more of a Georgian name that but I digress I think he was the same chap involved in some way in the near purchase of Reading's Training Ground.

Some Birmingham fans are talking about revenue of £40-50m even in League One?? Someone square this circle. Okay you can 'gift' income potentially under SCMP but it will hinder you as soon as you return to the Championship.

Could be out here but surely a return to Bristol as a team, a final day in the Monday or Sunday if they prefer. End of Season debrief, fitness and diet, nutrition etc plans is the way to go Plus obviously parameters laid for ongoing negotiations such as James, Williams, Conway contractually. All leaving post the last game and going their separate ways seems a bit incomplete to me.

Got a loose starting point for a formula here as it stands now. Parachute Payments minus Solidarity Payments=Well it depends but freshly relegated it's £35-45m. You lop that off the FFP calculations and then the club can either make that up by March or take a points deduction based on the Forecast Overspend with that excess excluded. Either would improve the competitiveness of the League. By way of example, your 3 Year Loss Limit to the first season down is £83m plus Allowables. You are forecast to have £20m in headroom with all revenue counted in full so £63m. Remove that, you have a shortfall of £15-25m to make up by March. 12 point deduction in the Spring if you can't, more sales, offloads and restraint if you can. This £63m and £20m within becomes £98-108m and therefore will restrain a club, present and future monitoring would need to come into play too. Perhaps even 15 points if losses rise as Birmingham got plus 3. The Premier League points deductions are improving but too soft so far, they need a formula with no notable Upper points cut off. I liked the sound of the 6 points as a starting point then 1 point per £5m. I've got 2 or 3 different plausible figures for the Leicester current position.

In fairness they should have one of the highest incomes in the division so they should perhaps come straight back up, especially with Derby, and before that Sheffield Wednesday, now Portsmouth and who knows maybe Bolton playoffs still mean it is pending. Of course it isn't always so simple, see Reading and Wigan..can be a slog that League, depending on how well you are run too but the gap especially financially can be large.

This is interesting, albeit Leicester may have breached FFP in the process..EFL wanted them to have to cut in January or face Sanctions this season. We had FFP for a while and we couldn't really turn down. The loophole there was that they were a relegated club and the PL and EFL begin the process at different stages, a regular Championship club may lack that and clubs in the future may also. I digress, Ipswich well I look at their squad and there are not many stellar players, good sure but as you say not stellar. Maybe Leif Davis? Luongo, Morsy, Broadhead, Burns, Chaplin, Hirst- none of these on paper are outstanding, they are players at this level individually with certain ages in some cases, certain levels of achievement in others but nothing amazing etc. This isn't me being churlish at all, but they have decent players, some of whom in and around peak years but they have outperformed their baseline, Sum >> Parts.

What about.. Parachute Payments plus Solidarity Payments into a pot. Along with EFL TV money Then you pool all 3 and split flatly by the current divisional weightings. This at a stroke removes the TV chasm between Parachute and Solidarity, reduces the cliff edge between PL and Championship. There are probably some flaws to it but it feels a better solution than the current scenario, it would he in conjunction with wage reductions on relegation etc.

Certainly seems that way RS. Part of me wonders if there is a petty streak, again I don't include Manning but those above "Ooh let us remove reminders of Pearson, no coaching deal for King, no new deal for James is a likely path". Let's hope we are proven wrong on this, I'm sure we and many others would like to be.

Bellingham was 15% of Profit, which equates to £9-9.5m. Seen contradictory suggestions but one was that Birmingham also get that % of the add-ons as and when they fall due. That still isn't revenue under P&S however, it bolsters position without a doubt.

Commercial, Broadcasting and Matchday Receipts seem to be relevant categories. Presumably the Segmented loss in q isn't e.g. the Operating Loss but the Loss verbatim..is in HK$.

To expand on my point elsewhere, Birmingham and their highest non Parachute Income is curious. We made £36m or so in 2022-23, Sunderland around £35m- Birmingham were £19-20m in 2022-23. Even putting aside their odd spike in Commercial Revenue with the January deal, which like all RPTs is subject to Fair Value analysis, a rise in income surpassing clubs with a £30m or above income bracket seems difficult to fathom in one year- let alone balancing it with P&S Fair Value Rules. There was a 6 month rise and it also showed them losing money in the 6 months to end of December 2023 which is surprising. There was a rise but not a mega one year on year in the 6 months.