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Nelson Mandela


Roger Red Hat

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Just waiting for the official attendance to be announced....I believe one or two season ticket holders have stayed home, because of the weather today

Full of plastics - I bet most of them don't turn up next week.

 

It was stated that the 3 ex and current presidents flew in on the same Airforce 1 flight, I hope for their sake that they brought Bruce Willis with them.

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Full of plastics - I bet most of them don't turn up next week.

 

It was stated that the 3 ex and current presidents flew in on the same Airforce 1 flight, I hope for their sake that they brought Bruce Willis with them.

And I hope that randy saxophone player kept his hands to himself, or at least, on his saxophone

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The Church st Pretoria bombing was in direct response to murders that the SA government committed.

It was in response to a South African cross-border raid into Lesotho in December 1982 which killed 42 ANC supporters and civilians, and the assassination of Ruth First, an ANC activist and wife of Joe Slovo, in Maputo, Mozambique.

I'm presuming you feel it was ok for the South African apartheid government to kill innocent people on a daily basis, but the ANC were not allowed to respond?

Apartheid caused the whole situation,a cruel and injustice way of treating human beings.

When people are backed into a corner they will respond in any way possible.

That's what happened to the coloured people of SA.

Imagine if the Germans had invaded us in the 40's. Do you think our people would have just accepted it, or fought back with any means possible.

 

As i said, his intentions were good but his actions were not. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. Imagine if Lee Rigby's squadron had opened fire on the mosque where his killers prayed, would you say their actions were justified? If the germans did invade us, i think any resistance would have been directly at them and not on innocent civilians. So Hitler takes command of Buck House and Downing Street, I'll tell you what i'll do, i'll go blow up a public space where innocent people are walking around, that'll show them.

 

In Mandela's trial, he said he would be willing to die for his cause, and that i commend him for. But when it comes to bombing innocent people, I simply cannot bring myself to agree. He should have gone down the Malcolm X & Dr Martin Luther King or Gandhi route of preaching non-violence to achieve their aim. Killing innocent people makes him as bad as the oppressors he was trying to overthrow in my opinion.

 

I'll answer for him as it won't suir his agenda.  The bombing was 20th May 1983, Mandela was released from prison on the 11th February 1990.

 

 

Where was Mandela when these actions occurred ?

 

well done Eco & cheese, by the precedent set by the pair of you, Hitler is now no longer responsible for the death of 6 million Jews. He didn't drive the trains to the death camps, he didn't pull the trigger, he didn't set the explosions, he didn't start the fires, he was in the government offices and hideaway retreats when these acts were going on. In Mandela's autobiography, he admitted that he ordered and "signed off" the church street bombing and his followers and fellow ANC / MK members carried out the attacks.

 

Not the same is it really? I'm pretty sure your comparison is exceptionally unfair.

 

Political party with a military wing, bombing innocent civilians when peace talks break down, fighting against an oppressive imperialistic government that have no right imposing themselves on their country.... am I talking about Sinn Fein & the IRA for Westminster on Northern Ireland or the ANC & MK for Aparthied regime in South Africa???

 

sinn-fc3a9in-and-the-anc-martin-mcguinne

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As i said, his intentions were good but his actions were not. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. Imagine if Lee Rigby's squadron had opened fire on the mosque where his killers prayed, would you say their actions were justified? If the germans did invade us, i think any resistance would have been directly at them and not on innocent civilians. So Hitler takes command of Buck House and Downing Street, I'll tell you what i'll do, i'll go blow up a public space where innocent people are walking around, that'll show them.

 

In Mandela's trial, he said he would be willing to die for his cause, and that i commend him for. But when it comes to bombing innocent people, I simply cannot bring myself to agree. He should have gone down the Malcolm X & Dr Martin Luther King or Gandhi route of preaching non-violence to achieve their aim. Killing innocent people makes him as bad as the oppressors he was trying to overthrow in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

well done Eco & cheese, by the precedent set by the pair of you, Hitler is now no longer responsible for the death of 6 million Jews. He didn't drive the trains to the death camps, he didn't pull the trigger, he didn't set the explosions, he didn't start the fires, he was in the government offices and hideaway retreats when these acts were going on. In Mandela's autobiography, he admitted that he ordered and "signed off" the church street bombing and his followers and fellow ANC / MK members carried out the attacks.

 

 

Political party with a military wing, bombing innocent civilians when peace talks break down, fighting against an oppressive imperialistic government that have no right imposing themselves on their country.... am I talking about Sinn Fein & the IRA for Westminster on Northern Ireland or the ANC & MK for Aparthied regime in South Africa???

 

sinn-fc3a9in-and-the-anc-martin-mcguinne

 

Can't remember Hitler being incarcerated while the Jews were systematically exterminated.  Neither was Hitler killing Jews because they were the majority oppressors killing innocent Germans and denying them any rights.

 

If you are going to make comparisons can we compare apples with apples, oranges with oranges etc, rather than apples and computers - as you have done?

 

I'm afraid none of your comparisons and analogies make any sense whatsoever.  Even the IRA example doesn't bear scrutiny.  

 

Must do better I'm afraid.

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Can't remember Hitler being incarcerated while the Jews were systematically exterminated. Neither was Hitler killing Jews because they were the majority oppressors killing innocent Germans and denying them any rights.

If you are going to make comparisons can we compare apples with apples, oranges with oranges etc, rather than apples and computers - as you have done?

I'm afraid none of your comparisons and analogies make any sense whatsoever. Even the IRA example doesn't bear scrutiny.

Must do better I'm afraid.

We'll said!
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Can't remember Hitler being incarcerated while the Jews were systematically exterminated.  Neither was Hitler killing Jews because they were the majority oppressors killing innocent Germans and denying them any rights.

 

If you are going to make comparisons can we compare apples with apples, oranges with oranges etc, rather than apples and computers - as you have done?

 

I'm afraid none of your comparisons and analogies make any sense whatsoever.  Even the IRA example doesn't bear scrutiny.  

 

Must do better I'm afraid.

 

This is very true. The greatness in the man wasn't just that he stood up and forgave people for the acts of violence that his people had suffered, but that he offered himself up to be forgiven by the same people. He has never turned his back on his past or tried to hide it, he wanted to let people see that ordinary people can be driven to extraordinary lengths when the are attacked, but they can return to normality given the chance. 

A massive number of white South Africans have forgiven him and are willing to move forward without recriminations, it's a shame that there are certain people here that can't do the same.

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Full of plastics - I bet most of them don't turn up next week.

 

It was stated that the 3 ex and current presidents flew in on the same Airforce 1 flight, I hope for their sake that they brought Bruce Willis with them.

 

"So then, what do you think of Nelson Mandela?"

 

"He was some guy that got black south african's rights weren't he? innit...."

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And I'm referring to all the other civilian deaths and casualties at the hands of the group he founded. Feel free to ignore that fact if it doesnt suit YOUR agenda.

Not at all, but if you took the time to take the splinter out of your eye and read what I was responding to you might get it.  The question was the date of the Church Street Pretoria bombing and where was Mandela at the time.  Clearly the answer was the one I gave - it didn't need a list of all the bombings and their dates now did it.  It's a bit like asking when you're birthday is and you responding with all the dates of your family.  That wasn't the question.  Jeez.

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