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Rich

Concourse seating (lack of)

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3 minutes ago, cynic said:

I agree with everything you say - but I think its falling on deaf ears in Bristol Sport.

They are only interested in covering their arses mate.

Have to shout louder then.

When I first raised this issue, it was with my brother in law in mind, and our experiences bringing him, unfortunately, we can't bring him with the current situation. Having raised this subject and through speaking to people at the ground, It would appear there are a lot of people who would appreciate somewhere to park their arse for a short while. 

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5 minutes ago, cynic said:

Best of luck.

I hope shouting louder works - but I doubt it.

 

 

 

 

 

Remind me, why did you choose your user name? :whistle:

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11 minutes ago, JasonM88 said:

How many ******* times does it have to be said? It's not allowed. Simple, end of, lock it. 

 

Think if we all went back to pre/post match drinking in pubs, the Club would soon adopt a 'can-do' attitude. 

Six inch wide shelves around pillars and walls is hardly going to result in thousands being trapped in the event of a fire or  adversely impact on the structural integrity of a double decker stand. 

Tell you what, a compromise. Put a level surface on top of your litter bins. There we go, now try and make up an excuse why you can't do that. To advance the idea, tell the SAG jobsworths,  the drinks will raidly extinguish any fire in the bin. Jobs a good'un. 

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6 minutes ago, cynic said:

Or put yer pints on the floor while eating yer pie - much safer.

@Mkelly

True.

In an emergency evacuation far better people slide across the floor on a film of spilt alcohol than walk.

Think aeroplane slides. Genius.

Maybe I underestimated SAGs lateral thinking abilities. I hereby withdrawal my demands. 

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17 hours ago, JasonM88 said:

How many ******* times does it have to be said? It's not allowed. Simple, end of, lock it. 

As many times as you want, as it is ******** allowed, it's just that the club haven't done it yet. Though they say they are looking into some form of drop down seating, which is welcome but, not for this season. 

If the topic upsets you, don't read it. Simple.

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10 minutes ago, Rich said:

As many times as you want, as it is ******** allowed, it's just that the club haven't done it yet. Though they say they are looking into some form of drop down seating, which is welcome but, not for this season. 

If the topic upsets you, don't read it. Simple.

The club are looking into drop down seating?  

Not sure H&S will allow it so I guess that'll be the first place the club would look.

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5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The club are looking into drop down seating?  

Not sure H&S will allow it so I guess that'll be the first place the club would look.

Can you tell me where it states in any literature from H&S that drop down seating, or any seating come to that, is not allowed in a concourse?

Why would they be allowed in a stadium in restricted areas, yet not in a concourse, in specifically identified safe areas?

The term used in the notes from the fans meeting was fold up chairs, but that was added into the notes as an addition. 

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17 hours ago, JasonM88 said:

How many ******* times does it have to be said? It's not allowed. Simple, end of, lock it. 

The SAGs are a safety Advisory group on which group sits a representative from the council public protection office plus building control unless the planning permission specifically states no seats of any kind I fail to see how they can object to drop down seating and on what grounds , Are they going to stop people sitting on the "window ledge" that already exists !

Would be nice if the club made a specific statement as to their objection to clear it up once and all.

As with the FAN meeting replies despite a lot of good work it is being undone by pethetic answers that if they were interested they could answer properly.

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57 minutes ago, Rich said:

Can you tell me where it states in any literature from H&S that drop down seating, or any seating come to that, is not allowed in a concourses?

Don't ask me Rich.

I was never involved with H&S during my working life.

I mentioned it because that's the reason the club have used not to have seating in the concourse.

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On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 18:28, Robbored said:

Don't ask me Rich.

I was never involved with H&S during my working life.

I mentioned it because that's the reason the club have used not to have seating in the concourse.

The clubs recent statement on the subject By Mark was : We are unable to provide traditional seating areas with the concourses due to the following stipulation in the planning application: "Concourse's are both a means of escape and a first sterile area of safety should a stand have to evacuate.  No extra fire loading or obstruction can be introduced within these areas."

So, we've established that there is no obstruction, as the areas suggested are recessed or in corners and, to claim that the seating suggested would be a fire hazard is questionable seeing as we have twenty seven thousand plastic seats already, so, I'm sure a design of seating (metal) could be found that wasn't a fire hazard. And, we've been told it's not a question of cost.

Problem solved, order some seats.

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@Rich

I wrote a lengthy lengthy post in response to your one to me, but my phone screwed it up at the wrong time. So will summarise my views on your response in a few bullet points.

  • Don't disagree that the club have done a great job with matchday experience. My belief is their hands are tied a bit here.
  • Yes it is bigger by about a third but I am assuming this was pre-arranged/signed off with H & S. To my mind the Dolman is a harder stand, perhaps the hardest to evacuate in such a situation in the ground. Bear in mind that turnstiles are not or should not be factored in if there is an evacuation necessary.
  • Plastic seating on a concrete base is less of a risk as concrete doesn't burn, than seating on a base on a concourse floor- the latter seems to be looking like in tile form so not concrete.
  • Plastic bins? Necessity. Again without bins litter could be strewn around. Litter strewn around? Greater fire risk, especially if the floor is not made from concrete. Plus fire guidance in general is not to have a crack at tackling if it's bigger than a waste paper bin.
  • Ovens and other heat sources? Yes very true but I believe- and I might be wrong here- there are self-closing shutters with a reasonable fire rating on catering outlets. The idea of this is to buy time to evacuate the stand safely. Also all concourses sell food, even heated food.
  • Again part of the modern experience, and as above self-closing shutters. In terms of an emergency evacuation, I query whether the pitch would necessarily be used.
  • Rugby? Much lower capacity- both in terms of as a whole and in terms of a stand by stand basis. Far easier to evacuate.

However one thing I will agree on unequivocally, is that there is much more lenience towards a rugby supporter, and you can add cricket to that too.

Your suggestion of metal seats maybe worth looking int for sure, but again IMO would have to be weighted against auto-ignition risks.

Having said that Rich, I actually think the risk of it is not so high- but beyond essentials such as bins for rubbish and I would argue fire hydrants are quite essential, the club are probably obliged legally to keep any nice to have, out- e.g. seats in a concourse.  In terms of structural integrity, in a latter post you made I too agree there probably isn't a risk but do you know what impact fire has on concrete? In the sense of if seats autoignite, the secondary factor to the possible fire or smoke at minimum, would be on the walls to which they are attached.

@cider head Smoke being a major major risk, very true. Autoignition may yield said smoke if not fire which is why I think the club probably can't do this.

PS, @Rich I appreciate we're at different ends of the spectrum on this debate, so that's my last post on it.

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On 19/09/2017 at 00:00, JasonM88 said:

How many ******* times does it have to be said? It's not allowed. Simple, end of, lock it. 

Oh the irony...not a thread I'm terribly interested in anymore but oh the irony.

A post on the Cotts MK Dons thread, well that sang a different tune. :laughcont:

Quote

On 23/10/2016 at 15:26, JasonM88 said:

if you don't want to talk about or see comments about certain subjects **** off the thread, others do want to ******* discuss it.

 

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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Oh the irony...not a thread I'm terribly interested in anymore but oh the irony.

A post on the Cotts MK Dons thread, well that sang a different tune. :laughcont:

 

This ones gone round in circles for years. We’ve been told at least 10 times it won’t happen

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48 minutes ago, JasonM88 said:

This ones gone round in circles for years. We’ve been told at least 10 times it won’t happen

Generally agree. Can't think of another club ground which has it in the concourse, and that's the case for a reason.

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5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Generally agree. Can't think of another club ground which has it in the concourse, and that's the case for a reason.

I'm beginning to believe more than ever that, the reason for a lack of seating has nothing to do with safety and more to do with commercial interests. There are studies which find that bars where music increases in volume gradually, drink consumption also increases, people can't sit and chat, so just drink more.

I'm sorry but, I can't honestly take spontaneous ignition seriously regarding a few metal or plastic seats. Surely they would not be allowed in the stadium if there was that risk.

As for your points about the Dolman being harder to evacuate, if that were the case, why have a drinks outlet at each end and at the narrowest points?

Not logical to think the pitch would not be used to evacuate people. If there were a fire or smoke in the concourse, where do you think people would go? That's after all, why they have emergency exits onto the pitch.

I have a picture of self closing shutters on the bars closing and imprisoning the staff within.

Sorry I think you are grasping at straws to find a reason to explain the lack of seating in concourses. As has been stated, people standing with nowhere to put their drinks down, drink more. There is no logical reason why a few seats on the perimeter and in certain other areas cannot be fitted. Ah sorry I forgot, there is a danger of alien abduction  from perimeter seating within concourse areas.:whistle:

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No conspiracy here, although quite a creative revenue strategy, so I read with interest 

As stated before, I'm happy to meet and illustrate the planning requirements on fire safety to reassure you 

No modern stadium builds have seating in the concourses in the U.K. 

All concessions at AG have self closing shutters on activation of a fire alarm 

Mark 

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45 minutes ago, Mkelly said:

No conspiracy here, although quite a creative revenue strategy, so I read with interest 

As stated before, I'm happy to meet and illustrate the planning requirements on fire safety to reassure you 

No modern stadium builds have seating in the concourses in the U.K. 

All concessions at AG have self closing shutters on activation of a fire alarm 

Mark 

This in particular- thank you!!

Particularly the bit about no seating in concourses in modern builds- hopefully people will now believe it a bit. Never thought I had seen any elsewhere, and lo!

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58 minutes ago, Mkelly said:

No conspiracy here, although quite a creative revenue strategy, so I read with interest 

As stated before, I'm happy to meet and illustrate the planning requirements on fire safety to reassure you 

No modern stadium builds have seating in the concourses in the U.K. 

All concessions at AG have self closing shutters on activation of a fire alarm 

Mark 

So, to be clear, older stadiums in the UK don't have Health and Safety regulations?

I'll look with interest at the new Crossrail tube stations.  I guess they will not have seats as the platforms are egress points in the case of an emergency.

Can you also state categorically that you have no need to cater for people with mobility issues (under current regulations)?

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7 minutes ago, Chivs said:

So, to be clear, older stadiums in the UK don't have Health and Safety regulations?

I'll look with interest at the new Crossrail tube stations.  I guess they will not have seats as the platforms are egress points in the case of an emergency.

Can you also state categorically that you have no need to cater for people with mobility issues (under current regulations)?

Lay off it. 

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11 hours ago, Chivs said:

So, to be clear, older stadiums in the UK don't have Health and Safety regulations?

 

Are you aware of any older stadiums that have Concourse seating?

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17 hours ago, Mkelly said:

No conspiracy here, although quite a creative revenue strategy, so I read with interest 

As stated before, I'm happy to meet and illustrate the planning requirements on fire safety to reassure you 

No modern stadium builds have seating in the concourses in the U.K. 

All concessions at AG have self closing shutters on activation of a fire alarm 

Mark 

Hi Mark, nice to know you're following this.

I don't think reassurance is required regarding fire safety, I'm sure most people are aware that there are requirements that have to be met.

My comment about "self closing shutters" was an attempt at humour, shutters closing by themselves? I work in the construction industry and have enough experience of meeting building regulations, regarding containment of fire, detection of fire, door release systems and means of exit, though not in terms of stadium design I admit, I don't suppose many have,  I've yet to see shutters that close by themselves.

As for no modern stadiums in the UK having concourse seating, there are a few questions regarding that.

Firstly, is that by law, or is it just standard practice at football clubs, where the masses are made to stand? I believe it's probably for commercial reasons, as well as free movement.

Secondly, The Dolman is a refit of an existing stand, so one assumes it would have been built to the same design as the other stands had it been a new design. As such, it would have had a smaller concourse and maybe, been less restrictive at the entrance/exit points in proportion to it's floor area. As it is a refit and considerably more spacious, having the benefit of areas that are recessed, why can't fire proof seating be installed in those areas?

Thirdly, if there are ways of providing seating within planning law, why don't Bristol City/BS, buck the trend of all other less caring clubs at their stadiums and, provide some seats in specific safe areas, for those who are less able, who could then enjoy the facilities the rest of us do?

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19 hours ago, Mkelly said:

No conspiracy here, although quite a creative revenue strategy, so I read with interest 

As stated before, I'm happy to meet and illustrate the planning requirements on fire safety to reassure you 

No modern stadium builds have seating in the concourses in the U.K. 

All concessions at AG have self closing shutters on activation of a fire alarm 

Mark 

You might want to look at Liverpools new concourse in the main stand. Not sure if it has been incorperated yet but it looks like it. They have a seating area and also somewhere to put your drinks. 

http://www.kssgroup.com/projects/anfield-stadium-concourses/

 

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30 minutes ago, Threshing Red said:

You might want to look at Liverpools new concourse in the main stand. Not sure if it has been incorperated yet but it looks like it. They have a seating area and also somewhere to put your drinks. 

http://www.kssgroup.com/projects/anfield-stadium-concourses/

 

Impressive but looks like one of those malls in Dubai.

 

 That’s not a good thing.

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49 minutes ago, Threshing Red said:

You might want to look at Liverpools new concourse in the main stand. Not sure if it has been incorperated yet but it looks like it. They have a seating area and also somewhere to put your drinks. 

http://www.kssgroup.com/projects/anfield-stadium-concourses/

 

I was thinking that they could've put some of the old Williams' seats in along the back wall. 

On a side note, are people made to stand up, if they are found to be sitting on the floor in the concourse? That surely is more of a hazard in an emergency, than sitting on a bench

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8 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I was thinking that they could've put some of the old Williams' seats in along the back wall. 

On a side note, are people made to stand up, if they are found to be sitting on the floor in the concourse? That surely is more of a hazard in an emergency, than sitting on a bench

What's good enough for Liverpool surely must be good enough for us. I really don't buy all this health & safety excuses. P.S. I sat on the concourse floor against the wall last home game just to make a point. But it did take me a few minutes to get up again :laughcont:

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/stadium/234173-8-days-to-go-the-stand-inside-the-new-main-stand-revealed

Just a closer look at it. 

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I'm following this with interest too. No there might not be seating in the concourses of other grounds, but his many have such lovely huge spaces like we have?

Granted I have only been in the away fan facilities at most other grounds, but just about every concourse is very narrow. I did go to QPR a few weeks ago, and found myself in the concourse by the directors box, obviously in the home end. It was really narrow but this had a small area in which there was a betting office, and this had ledges around. These ledges were probably for people to write down their bets but people were using them to put drinks on. 

I'm also thinking that just suppose we hadn't developed, people would be sitting in the Dolman Hall now wouldn't they? Carpet on floors, tables and chairs everywhere. Now we have been refurbished, no doubt with the top range sprinkler system, alarms and non flammable flooring etc, people can't get even a temporary seat. Madness. 

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Just noticed this on the fans experience webpage. Even back then the club were listening to their fans feedback. Obviously they don't have the same Health & safety group as we have. 

"March 2013:

Further to feedback from fans, new mobile tables have been introduced in the lower Kop concourse. These tables provide an area for fans to rest their food/drinks and also contain a waste bin in the centre."

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/fans/fan-experience/lfc-is-listening

 

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3 hours ago, Rich said:

My comment about "self closing shutters" was an attempt at humour, shutters closing by themselves? I work in the construction industry and have enough experience of meeting building regulations, regarding containment of fire, detection of fire, door release systems and means of exit, though not in terms of stadium design I admit, I don't suppose many have,  I've yet to see shutters that close by themselves.

If you look at the concession shutters, you'll see the signage that says they're closing. Presumably this lights up (with an audio signal too) should the fire alarm activate and they close.

Something similar is shown top right here: https://www.ukrollershutters.co.uk/products/fire-shutters-curtains/fire-rated-roller-shutters/productsfire-rated-productsfire-rated-roller-shutterstwin-skin-fire-shutters/

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26 minutes ago, Threshing Red said:

Just noticed this on the fans experience webpage. Even back then the club were listening to their fans feedback. Obviously they don't have the same Health & safety group as we have. 

"March 2013:

Further to feedback from fans, new mobile tables have been introduced in the lower Kop concourse. These tables provide an area for fans to rest their food/drinks and also contain a waste bin in the centre."

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/fans/fan-experience/lfc-is-listening

 

Just demonstrates how remote from us fans, sorry consumers, the Club has become and how lacking they are in their ability to understand fan issues. Sad. 

Clearly, our suits just want to maximise profit at the expense of customer comfort. May work in the short term lads, but the local pubs are becoming a more attractive proposition for some now the novelty of our somewhat soulless concourses is wearing off. 

Dont worry, I'm sure those who naively believe your excuses for not providing drinks stands will continue to patronise your bars.

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On 14/09/2017 at 11:36, Red Army Faction said:

You drink faster when you are standing up.  

Is that true?

 

tfj

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1 hour ago, Taxi for Johnson said:

Is that true?

 

tfj

Especially if there's nowhere to put your drink, other than the floor.

As I posted earlier, they turn the music up gradually in bars, which makes people talk less and drink more, studies have been made about it. Bit like product placement in supermarkets.

This is big business, they know how to maximise profits, we're talking in association with Heineken and Thatchers here mind, they're no mugs when it comes to selling.

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16 minutes ago, Rich said:

Especially if there's nowhere to put your drink, other than the floor.

As I posted earlier, they turn the music up gradually in bars, which makes people talk less and drink more, studies have been made about it. Bit like product placement in supermarkets.

This is big business, they know how to maximise profits, we're talking in association with Heineken and Thatchers here mind, they're no mugs when it comes to selling.

As someone who has run bars & pubs in the recent past, I can assure you that the music was never turned up to maximise drinking.

Customers would want to listen to music while drinking, those that also wanted to talk would then talk louder to be heard & the music would then in turn need to be turned up so that the paying public could enjoy their music, similarly with TV's for sporting events in pubs & bars, one battles the other.

Many pubs / bars are music based, especially on Thursday, Friday & Saturday evenings & when their not musically based, they are sport based, so the TV's are turned up especially for live football & rugby.

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10 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

As someone who has run bars & pubs in the recent past, I can assure you that the music was never turned up to maximise drinking.

Customers would want to listen to music while drinking, those that also wanted to talk would then talk louder to be heard & the music would then in turn need to be turned up so that the paying public could enjoy their music, similarly with TV's for sporting events in pubs & bars, one battles the other.

Many pubs / bars are music based, especially on Thursday, Friday & Saturday evenings & when their not musically based, they are sport based, so the TV's are turned up especially for live football & rugby.

Yours might not have been, I'm not lying. Google drinking and music and see for yourself. You'll find where studies have taken place and bars have used the music to drive up drink sales and consumption.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080718180723.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2432699/Loud-music-in-bars-makes-customers-drink-more-say-scientists.html

https://www.bighospitality.co.uk/Article/2011/12/14/Loud-music-could-improve-pub-and-bar-sales

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036389/Loud-music-pub-makes-drink-say-scientists.html

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33 minutes ago, Rich said:

Yep you’re right about this. A friend of mine who runs a bar swears by it. More applicable to busy / livelier places than a quiet country pub of course but what you’re saying is true.

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8 minutes ago, Rich said:

Are these similar researches that have stated the reasons for putting salty snacks on the bar in the past was to get people to drink more? (Again something that I never done or had ever been instructed to do).

If you look hard enough you'll find research done for just about everything, only this morning on the BBC Breakfast program was a story of research being done into honey bees & the fact that they are now superglueing trackers onto the back of said bees because no one knows how long a bee spends in it's hive or outside of it's hive or collecting pollen or doing whatever else & so they can see how long a bee lives!!

And people get paid for doing this 'research'!!

If people don't like the music or TV loud in their drinking establishment, there is nothing stopping anyone from moving on to another bar / pub but at the same time, there are people who enjoy loud music or the atmosphere created by having the sport turned up on the TV, bars & pubs are paying huge amounts to supply this entertainment, their not going to go to that expense & then have a live band on quietly in the background or the big match on mute.

There are pubs / bars that don't have this line of entertainment & that's fine, so how are they maximising profits without making people drink more by not being able to have a conversation?

People go to football for differing reasons, some go for a few beers & for the atmosphere & to have a good laugh with their mates, others go solely for the football, aren't interested in meeting up with others or having a few drinks or for any form of atmosphere & that's fine.

Unfortunately it is more or less impossible to accommodate everyone in any form of entertainment based business because you can be sure that someone won't like something that is going on at any given venue. You just can't please everyone & unfortunately your issue is something of a minority problem as far as the club is concerned because 90% or so of their paying public are happy with their matchday experience.

As I've mentioned previously, I simply no longer attend games because I don't expect the club to accommodate my needs, my issues aren't a problem of the clubs, they are a problem of mine & because of that I have to miss out on something that I spent nearly 40 years of my life doing & enjoying. Do I miss it? Hell yeah. Do I ever see myself returning to Ashton Gate on match days? If I'm honest, no I don't. But that is my decision & not one I expect the club to try & rectify.

My choice has meant that I miss out on socialising with friends & family, supporting my club & forgetting my troubles for a few hours a week or so because attending a match would simply mean me suffering even more than I already am for even more time & it's just not worth it to me.

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Tis simple.

At 1.00pm staff run around and throw these bad boys on the pitch and we can all sit down until 2.45 and have a quiet sophisticated drink in the centre circle...Job done!Garden-tables-metal-garden-furniture-Table-chair-glass-wine-grass-strawberry.thumb.jpg.1b299cd8fe1f4f4e8d606cc04e12f8f1.jpg

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I dont think i can recall any of the away concourse areas ive been to with seating?

Certainly not Newcastle cuz i bloody needed it after that climb...

Most have ledges to put glasses on but not seats....

If you want to sit i guess you go to a lounge?

 

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8 hours ago, Rich said:

Especially if there's nowhere to put your drink, other than the floor.

As I posted earlier, they turn the music up gradually in bars, which makes people talk less and drink more, studies have been made about it. Bit like product placement in supermarkets.

This is big business, they know how to maximise profits, we're talking in association with Heineken and Thatchers here mind, they're no mugs when it comes to selling.

How right you are-selling Heineken you would need to know every trick in the book-plus as few that aren't........

Ultimately if the club refuse to adopt common sense and not just keep trotting out the 'party line then there are many excellent venues on the way down to the ground which are accessible/suitable for all-and the food and drink better!

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It's smacks of the man who had threes wishes then wished for three more. We have a nice updated stadium but in crowds of almost 20k you can't please everyone. It's a concourse not a pub, if we had seats would people then be requesting pool tables dart boards or log fires? No other concourse (except maybe Liverpool) have seating. Wembley or the Principality Stadium with wide open concourses do not have seating. I sympathise with those who have problems with standing I have back issues myself and therefore unable to stand for any length of time but there are places around the ground where I can sit. It's not like the concourses are struggling for customers there are people on other threads stating how long it's takes to get served. Are the concourse really that fantastic that people who are unable to stand feel that they are missing out?

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On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 03:56, Fodbarmyarmy said:

I dont think i can recall any of the away concourse areas ive been to with seating?

Certainly not Newcastle cuz i bloody needed it after that climb...

Most have ledges to put glasses on but not seats....

If you want to sit i guess you go to a lounge?

 

This is not about wanting to sit, it's about "needing" to sit.  Needing to sit close to the main stadium seating prior to a match, to enjoy the facilities with either family and friends, or both.

There are numerous people that need to sit, disabled, back pain sufferers, people with heart conditions, the elderly, asthmatics, add whoever else there might be. Currently those people have to either miss out on the concourse facilities to arrive in time to take their seat for the game, or, use facilities elsewhere, or not attend, like Tipps69. I know the sports bar is available, but, if you suffer with any of the above problems you don't want to first make your way there, then, make your way to your seat through the crowds.

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On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 11:33, Big C said:

It's smacks of the man who had threes wishes then wished for three more. We have a nice updated stadium but in crowds of almost 20k you can't please everyone. It's a concourse not a pub, if we had seats would people then be requesting pool tables dart boards or log fires? No other concourse (except maybe Liverpool) have seating. Wembley or the Principality Stadium with wide open concourses do not have seating. I sympathise with those who have problems with standing I have back issues myself and therefore unable to stand for any length of time but there are places around the ground where I can sit. It's not like the concourses are struggling for customers there are people on other threads stating how long it's takes to get served. Are the concourse really that fantastic that people who are unable to stand feel that they are missing out?

Bit simplistic, we're talking basic human requirements here, try getting my brother in law to sit down on a little ledge, let alone get him up from it. Obviously you can't please everyone and you are correct, it's not like the concourses are struggling for customers. I wonder what the stance would be if they were and, there will come a time, hopefully not soon, when they will struggle.

If Liverpool have met the planning criteria for seating in their concourse, I'm sure we could, given the space available in the Dolman concourse alone. So, if we meet the criteria, give me a good reason in your opinion, why we should not allocate an area,  where seating can be provided for people who are less fortunate than others?

 

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Below is an excerpt from the access to stadium guide for the disabled. It also covers ambulant disabled, which relates to people I have referred to. These represent the greater number of people who are classed as disabled, disabled people amount to twenty percent of the population. We have an ageing population and as such, this group of ambulant disabled person will increase in numbers. I'm not sure the concourse would be classed as a restaurant or bar, possibly not, but, we certainly have bar areas within the concourses. The last sentence seems to suggest that some seating should be available for ambulant disabled people.

 

 

:2.31 Restaurants and Bar Areas
Standards and requirements for accessibility to restaurants and bar areas are given in BS 8300 Chapter11‘Assembly Areas’ and Part M Section 4. Reference should also be made to Section 1.13 of this publication and to the needs of people with impaired vision.
All bars and service counters should be designed so that they can be reached and used by all people including wheelchair users. The accessible part of the working surface of a bars should be at a level of not more than 850mm from the floor with a clear space beneath at least 700mm above the floor. This can be achieved by providing level access and removable seating, or no seating at all, to accommodate the wheelchair users.
Table legs or bases should be set in from the table edge to allow for the approach of wheelchair users. A proportion of seats with armrests, or other aids to sitting and rising, should be included for ambulant disabled people.
 

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8 minutes ago, Rich said:

Should anyone wish to read the guide. If you have a few hours.

http://www.levelplayingfield.org.uk/sites/default/files/contentfiles/accessible_stadia_guide.pdf

Its a bit long as Rich alludes to... (over 100pages) so I suggest anyone wishing to read it should first......

Take a *seat and make yourself comfortable!!!

*(ironic pun intended ;)  ) ..... but until the laws on concourse seating (in reasonable areas,) are reviewed and revised using common sense then in this case the law will remain an absolute Ass!!! 

*If the above is not possible (through sheer bloody mindedness) how about revising the law regarding drinking in sight of the pitch to allow disabled people/carers in designated stadium areas to order drinks that are brought and served to them in their seats?  (hmm, fat chance of that happening but why not eh?  not hard to maintain security with a steward or two on duty in the area after all)... Besides it would be far too civilised for football supporters wouldn't it?

 

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6 minutes ago, WhistleHappy said:

Its a bit long as Rich alludes to... (over 100pages) so I suggest anyone wishing to read it should first......

Take a *seat and make yourself comfortable!!!

*(ironic pun intended ;)  ) ..... but until the laws on concourse seating (in reasonable areas,) are reviewed and revised using common sense then in this case the law will remain an absolute Ass!!! 

*If the above is not possible (through sheer bloody mindedness) how about revising the law regarding drinking in sight of the pitch to allow disabled people/carers in designated stadium areas to order drinks that are brought and served to them in their seats?  (hmm, fat chance of that happening but why not eh?  not hard to maintain security with a steward or two on duty in the area after all)... Besides it would be far too civilised for football supporters wouldn't it?

 

Seems as if it is covered under this good practice guide.

"A proportion of seats with armrests, or other aids to sitting and rising, should be included for ambulant disabled people".

 

 
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On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 03:56, Fodbarmyarmy said:

I dont think i can recall any of the away concourse areas ive been to with seating?

Certainly not Newcastle cuz i bloody needed it after that climb...

Most have ledges to put glasses on but not seats....

If you want to sit i guess you go to a lounge?

 

Currently, the only bar available to Joe public is the Sports bar. If you have mobility problems, that's the last place you want to be before the match and then try and make your way to your seat.

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Ok, a week has passed since this topic was on page one, sorry if it bores some of you folks.

There is a chance for @Mkelly to put this to bed.

So, we've established that LFC have installed seating in part of their concourse area. So is it against the law.                         https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=nS0b1alK&id=A71D017BAAF6CCF489172F3032CDB4271B303BA1&thid=OIP.nS0b1alK604pXfTKlKGV8QEsCc&q=liverpool+concourse+seating&simid=608036288488344891&selectedindex=8&mode=overlay&first=1

We've established that there are seats which meet planning building regulation requirements.

There are recommendations for ambulant seating in bar areas, in the accessible stadium guide, as previously posted.

We've established that areas within the Dolman concourse would be suitable for seating, without any chance whatsoever of causing an obstruction. 

We've established that it's not a matter of cost, (statement by Mark).

So the question is still the same. Can we have some seating in the concourses, for those less able?

I note from the pictures that LFC have actually put some shelves in for their supporters comfort as well, something our supporters are waiting to enjoy, two years plus after opening. They could even put double shelves into the recesses of the upright RSJs, they wouldn't protrude at all and would hold three pints per shelf, so four per RSJ, of which there are twelve in the South Stand. 144 pints worth of shelving, not protruding and very little cost.

 

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