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It all kicked off in Bristol (Merged)


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2 minutes ago, SARJ said:

It's a hard sensation to describe unless you're involved.

Not a football hooligan but am an amateur boxer. I love bouts and sparring. The adrenaline, the violence, pride and the great feeling afterwards. Completely understand how some hoolies enjoy it. When you say 'punching people in the face' or 'kicking peoples heads in' yeah it seems strange to read it like that, but it's true, very weird but great feeling.

Again, not for everyone, courses for horses I say. World would be boring if everyone were the same.

HUGE difference. 

If you're in a bout, controlled by strict rules in a controlled environment, then the two of you can, quite frankly, kick the living shit out of each other. 

If you're outside a football ground, drunk, sober, on drugs, and you take a dislike to someone who simply happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and you embark on a polite spot of kicking their head in, then it's a different kettle of whassnames altogether. 

Violence breeds violence. You simply cannot defend an enjoyment of head-kicking-in because of the colour scarf you wear

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19 minutes ago, Paul Lumber said:

Most lads who were called up in the Falklands war, Afghanistan had connection with football firms before they were sent off to fight.

I'm intrigued to see the evidence of this. Seems very far fetched and bordering on the bloody slanderous to me!

Arguments suiting agendas would be my inclination.

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Just now, CyderInACan said:

HUGE difference. 

If you're in a bout, controlled by strict rules in a controlled environment, then the two of you can, quite frankly, kick the living shit out of each other. 

If you're outside a football ground, drunk, sober, on drugs, and you take a dislike to someone who simply happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and you embark on a polite spot of kicking their head in, then it's a different kettle of whassnames altogether. 

Violence breeds violence. You simply cannot defend an enjoyment of head-kicking-in because of the colour scarf you wear

Apparently if you wear a scarf then you aren't in any danger. 

If you sport overpriced knitwear then you are asking for it.

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5 minutes ago, SARJ said:

It's a hard sensation to describe unless you're involved.

Not a football hooligan but am an amateur boxer. I love bouts and sparring. The adrenaline, the violence, pride and the great feeling afterwards. Completely understand how some hoolies enjoy it. When you say 'punching people in the face' or 'kicking peoples heads in' yeah it seems strange to read it like that, but it's true, very weird but great feeling.

Again, not for everyone, courses for horses I say. World would be boring if everyone were the same.

I think a controlled and legal sport is a very  different proposition to kicking someone’s head in in the street and somehow associating it with football!

As for ‘each to their own’ where do you draw the line between criminals activity and ‘each to their own’ ?

I mean if some nutter kicked your head in whilst you were out doing your weekly shop I’m assuming the ‘oh well, if that’s what what you enjoy then who am I to stop you’ argument would dissolve pretty quickly! 

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I read the book and found it fascinating as nearly all the games discussed I attended. I also know a number of people mentioned in the book and know that they all are passionate supporters of our club from a pure football perspective. Being involved in the CSF doesn't make you any less a supporter & whilst you might not agree with violence you cannot take the moral high ground as ultimately you can avoid trouble and walk away, whilst others walk to it. It's choices that we all have!!

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43 minutes ago, Paul Lumber said:

I become a football hooligan because I wanted to be, not because I was from a broken home, that's the sort of comment people who will never understand will make, usually people who wonted to be apart of it but couldn't fit in, within any firm there are like minded individuals from all walks of like, race and political views.

As for you can't see why men fight, men will always fight for something they believe in and not just at football.

How close are/were you to your father, Paul? Does or did your father ever tell you that he loves you?

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Just now, Shuffle said:

I read the book and found it fascinating as nearly all the games discussed I attended. I also know a number of people mentioned in the book and know that they all are passionate supporters of our club from a pure football perspective. Being involved in the CSF doesn't make you any less a supporter & whilst you might not agree with violence you cannot take the moral high ground as ultimately you can avoid trouble and walk away, whilst others walk to it. It's choices that we all have!!

You’re completely right, I mean it’s not like anyone innocent has ever been caught up in violence. 

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9 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

HUGE difference. 

If you're in a bout, controlled by strict rules in a controlled environment, then the two of you can, quite frankly, kick the living shit out of each other. 

If you're outside a football ground, drunk, sober, on drugs, and you take a dislike to someone who simply happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and you embark on a polite spot of kicking their head in, then it's a different kettle of whassnames altogether. 

Violence breeds violence. You simply cannot defend an enjoyment of head-kicking-in because of the colour scarf you wear

What if sarj enjoys bare knuckle boxing? Your assumed he is white collar etc and all above board, he might like going toe to toe with irish travellers.

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We tried repelling Millwall with boots and fists and a car and wooden Dolman seats and bottles from a milk float in 1985 (and before that by rocking up to their's and having a "pop") but still they come back! Looking for more boots and fists and milk floats!

The Buddha was right: hate never yet dispelled hate. Only love dispels hate.

We must fight Millwall with love, not hate. 

Fair play to Paul and the lads, though. They give it their best hate, to be fair.

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It's a kop out to say 'You won't understand if you've never been in it'.

I've 'been in it'...seen people stabbed...had the Police come in with batons etc. Seen people have life changing injuries. Funny they want peoples sympathy and the NHS to help them out afterwards.

When I've been 'in it' at City, following Lazio, England, and at foreign Clubs....I've never felt a want to fight or be part of that 'tribe of lemmings'. I've always felt, 'why the hell do I stand next to these cockwombles'...

As for 'coming to the rescue fans and doing it for the Club...what a complete load of bollox. The difference is, most fans can look after, and defend themselves...and when push come's to shove, they'll stand and look after themselves. They just don't go looking for it. They don't need to be in a 'gang', they can think for themselves and be individuals.

That's the difference between being leaders of men and an individual with a strong character, and those that have to rely on others for guidance, moral spirit and who follow. Basically weak of mind.

As for the comment of the Army in Afghanistan...I rest my case from an earlier post. Sent in as the 'Canon fodder'. Get em stirred up and passionate, 'King and Country' blah, blah, blah, and they'll follow like lemmings without thinking for themselves. That's why the Forces need 'these types'....to do and not to question. And also why they look for individuals with strong character to make decisions and lead...Officers etc.

I get someone being a boxer...but hooligans are idiots, who need the thrill of being part of something, because they've not got it in their home life's...either now or previously.

I actually feel sorry for them.

If I have any 'respect' for any Hooligans...it would be the one's in Eastern Europe, who meet up in forests and 'have it out'. It doesn't effect anyone else, and they look after their own if injured.

I still think they should all do one though, and get a worthwhile life.

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5 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

I read the book and found it fascinating as nearly all the games discussed I attended. I also know a number of people mentioned in the book and know that they all are passionate supporters of our club from a pure football perspective. Being involved in the CSF doesn't make you any less a supporter & whilst you might not agree with violence you cannot take the moral high ground as ultimately you can avoid trouble and walk away, whilst others walk to it. It's choices that we all have!!

Surprised you said that as someone who appears to have attended a lot of games. 

Obviously you've never been chased by a gang of oppsition "fans" then, even though all you want to do is watch your team play footie? 

I'm struggling to comprehend some if the comments on here.

There is often no option to "walk away"

 

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19 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

As well as creating an intimidating atmosphere for other fans, including children, and local residents.  Anyone who suggests that football violence was just a bit of fun that only impacted on the willing participants is either being shockingly naive or deliberately disingenuous.  Apart from the way it ruined the name of football for a while (and still does occasionally), it threatened safety, security and general wellbeing of football fans.  It has cost lives on one or more notable occasion.  Doesn't anyone remember the Heysel tragedy?  That was a direct result of crowd trouble.    I've never been involved in football violence but I've had to run for it on several occasions, as well as feeling threatened and intimidated though no involvement of my own.  Sorry, but the attitude to this from some posters is, IMHO, shocking.

Football was always about taunting the other fans that was part of the atmosphere, that was what football was all about, many parents took there kids to football week in week out no full well what the atmosphere would be like, and I'm sorry as far as I am concerned the local residents shouldn't of bought a housea right next to a football stadium, it would be a bit like buying a house next door to a airport then complaining that airplanespecially are flying over all the i

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12 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I think a controlled and legal sport is a very  different proposition to kicking someone’s head in in the street and somehow associating it with football!

As for ‘each to their own’ where do you draw the line between criminals activity and ‘each to their own’ ?

I mean if some nutter kicked your head in whilst you were out doing your weekly shop I’m assuming the ‘oh well, if that’s what what you enjoy then who am I to stop you’ argument would dissolve pretty quickly! 

Controlled or not, my point was that I can understand what Paul Lumber is saying about how the buzz of violence can be strangely enjoyable.

I'm not sure if this is something you've experienced personally, and I'm not talking about being mugged or attacked in a shopping centre as you put it. I'm talking like minded individuals, be it football louts, MMA, boxing, Muay Thai fighters, whatever. The reason these sports and pastimes are so popular is because people do enjoy it.

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11 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

What if sarj enjoys bare knuckle boxing? Your assumed he is white collar etc and all above board, he might like going toe to toe with irish travellers.

By "Boxing" I have merely assumed he's referring to the sport governed by the Queensberry rules. I haven't made any assumption about "white collar etc" and I'm not sure what that has got to do with it, frankly. 

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12 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's a kop out to say 'You won't understand if you've never been in it'.

I've 'been in it'...seen people stabbed...had the Police come in with batons etc. Seen people have life changing injuries. Funny they want peoples sympathy and the NHS to help them out afterwards.

When I've been 'in it' at City, following Lazio, England, and at foreign Clubs....I've never felt a want to fight or be part of that 'tribe of lemmings'. I've always felt, 'why the hell do I stand next to these cockwombles'...

As for 'coming to the rescue fans and doing it for the Club...what a complete load of bollox. The difference is, most fans can look after, and defend themselves...and when push come's to shove, they'll stand and look after themselves. They just don't go looking for it. They don't need to be in a 'gang', they can think for themselves and be individuals.

That's the difference between being leaders of men and an individual with a strong character, and those that have to rely on others for guidance, moral spirit and who follow. Basically weak of mind.

As for the comment of the Army in Afghanistan...I rest my case from an earlier post. Sent in as the 'Canon fodder'. Get em stirred up and passionate, 'King and Country' blah, blah, blah, and they'll follow like lemmings without thinking for themselves. That's why the Forces need 'these types'....to do and not to question. And also why they look for individuals with strong character to make decisions and lead...Officers etc.

I get someone being a boxer...but hooligans are idiots, who need the thrill of being part of something, because they've not got it in their home life's...either now or previously.

I actually feel sorry for them.

If I have any 'respect' for any Hooligans...it would be the one's in Eastern Europe, who meet up in forests and 'have it out'. It doesn't effect anyone else, and they look after their own if injured.

I still think they should all do one though, and get a worthwhile life.

Nailed it. 

Want to meet like minded Neanderthals and beat seven bells of shit out of each other? 

Crack on, but do us all a favour and **** off somewhere where others won’t get caught up in it, and stop pretending it’s got anything to do with football when the reality is you’re just getting off on violence.

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10 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

By "Boxing" I have merely assumed he's referring to the sport governed by the Queensberry rules. I haven't made any assumption about "white collar etc" and I'm not sure what that has got to do with it, frankly. 

What i was implying, was your making an assumption it was all legal etc.

What is the real difference between say, bare knuckle boxing in a traveller site somewhere, to 50 blokes meeting up in a park somewhere before football to have a fight?

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1 minute ago, AshtonPark said:

What i was implying, was your making an assumption it was all legal etc.

What is the real difference between say, bare knuckle boxing in a traveller site somewhere, to 50 blokes meeting up in a park somewhere before football to have a fight?

None. They’re all ***** :laugh: 

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3 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

What i was implying, was your making an assumption it was all legal etc.

What is the real difference between say, bare knuckle boxing in a traveller site somewhere, to 50 blokes meeting up in a park somewhere before football to have a fight?

I think most people’s assumption of “boxing” would be the legal version. That said, if two blokes wanted to kick the living beejaysus out of each other and it involved no one else, I couldn’t care less. 

Blokes meeting up for a fight likewise.

The point I’m trying to make is that violence (let’s not try and make it sound any more romantic or glamorous or of service to society by calling it “Football” violence) can frequently involve unintended consequences that ruin and end lives. 

Anyone who thinks that kicking someone else’s head in because of the team they support is “normal” behaviour would be better off reassessing their life options tbh. 

 

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29 minutes ago, spudski said:

I've 'been in it'...

I've never felt a want to fight or be part of that 'tribe of lemmings'. I've always felt, 'why the hell do I stand next to these cockwombles'...

As for 'coming to the rescue fans and doing it for the Club...what a complete load of bollox. The difference is, most fans can look after, and defend themselves...

Disagree with you @spudski reading the above I would say that you haven't been part of it, reading the two sentances above clearly contradict that theory.   I would say I have been protected by these people, as one example, every time we used to go to Cardiff the home "fans" have looked for City fans on leaving the ground, we'd have taken a kicking if it wasn't for these people stepping up to them 

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3 minutes ago, phantom said:

Disagree with you @spudski reading the above I would say that you haven't been part of it, reading the two sentances above clearly contradict that theory.   I would say I have been protected by these people, as one example, every time we used to go to Cardiff the home "fans" have looked for City fans on leaving the ground, we'd have taken a kicking if it wasn't for these people stepping up to them 

Well said.

Not City related, but I know a few families from Bemmy who went over to France last year. They were extremely grateful to have the English and Paris SG firms fighting off the Russians.

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4 minutes ago, phantom said:

Disagree with you @spudski reading the above I would say that you haven't been part of it, reading the two sentances above clearly contradict that theory.   I would say I have been protected by these people, as one example, every time we used to go to Cardiff the home "fans" have looked for City fans on leaving the ground, we'd have taken a kicking if it wasn't for these people stepping up to them 

But does this not dismiss the notion that football hooligans are only interested in fighting like-subminded people and you can just walk away?

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17 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

What i was implying, was your making an assumption it was all legal etc.

What is the real difference between say, bare knuckle boxing in a traveller site somewhere, to 50 blokes meeting up in a park somewhere before football to have a fight?

Anti social behaviour on a larger scale?

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7 minutes ago, phantom said:

Disagree with you @spudski reading the above I would say that you haven't been part of it, reading the two sentances above clearly contradict that theory.   I would say I have been protected by these people, as one example, every time we used to go to Cardiff the home "fans" have looked for City fans on leaving the ground, we'd have taken a kicking if it wasn't for these people stepping up to them 

But surely the whole point of that story is that hooliganism interferes with and can cause harm to normal people tying to go about their lives, thus making any justification for it even more tenuous? 

It’s just someone else’s hooligans in this particular story. The root cause is still people that think it’s ok to act like ****. 

Edited by BRISTOL86
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1 hour ago, Paul Lumber said:

Football was always about taunting the other fans that was part of the atmosphere, that was what football was all about, many parents took there kids to football week in week out no full well what the atmosphere would be like, and I'm sorry as far as I am concerned the local residents shouldn't of bought a housea right next to a football stadium, it would be a bit like buying a house next door to a airport then complaining that airplanespecially are flying over all the i

Actually football is/was about football, you know the pitch with the ball and the guys running around? The noise, the supporters, the smells etc... all contribute to the atmosphere and ambience, but fundamentally the game is what draws people to the match, the sport is what we go and see.

I did watch/go to football in the 80s in spite of the violence not because of it. I can’t stand deluded idiots who believe they were protecting me back in the day, they need to grow up, I’ve read similar books in the hooligan genre, sometimes the author seems reformed and regrets his childish behaviour, in this case the author enjoyed violence for the sake of violence and judging by his writing ability on here I’d say he lost most weeks and sustained a few blows to the head, that alone is enough to prevent me purchasing his book, I wouldn’t  pay for food if the chef couldn’t cook, I won’t buy a book if the author can not write.

I don’t need protection now and didn’t need it then, you would know this if you got in a ring or on a football pitch with me, instead of running around in pack, actually packs are made up of wolves, you sound like a sheep.

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15 minutes ago, phantom said:

Disagree with you @spudski reading the above I would say that you haven't been part of it, reading the two sentances above clearly contradict that theory.   I would say I have been protected by these people, as one example, every time we used to go to Cardiff the home "fans" have looked for City fans on leaving the ground, we'd have taken a kicking if it wasn't for these people stepping up to them 

Mate...how can you say I haven't been part of it, when you haven't been with me. I've stood with the Lazio Ultras on the Curva Nord, and followed them against Roma, Napoli, Atalanta to name a few...where it's all kicked off. Police charging in Riot gear, Batons, flares, Stabbings, beatings etc. Seen it and been amongst it with City...and like you at Cardiff.

I looked after myself...didn't need to run with them and get involved...but stood up to them. Didn't back down and those around me did the same. Funny when they don't like it one on one either.

I don't need others to do it for me... Yes I've been 'smacked'...but he got it harder back. Can't remember seeing him get up tbh. His fellow lemmings dragged him off.

And there are a lot like me, that will stand up for themselves when these idiots come looking for it. You don't need to be part of it, to look after yourself. The difference is...I don't go looking for it. I go to enjoy watching football.

Violence is for people too thick to talk, debate and have banter without losing self control.

Stand up for yourself Phantom...you'll be surprised what you can do if you need to ;-)

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