JamesBCFC Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Xia is , Or was reportedly worth £990million His takeover comprises a £52m purchase price and a £24m overdraft. He has been propping upmghe finances at approx 5/6 million a month Approx £150 million So about £200 million to date and estimated he will be lucky to get anywhere near his purchase price back Ouch Apparently he doesnt want to sell at a loss. Presumably that means the initial outlay to buy the club, not the total he spent afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: Apparently he doesnt want to sell at a loss. Presumably that means the initial outlay to buy the club, not the total he spent afterwards. Yes He will be lucky to get his 52m back (Other sources suggest it was £70m) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 22 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: True. I'd go as far as to say virtually every successful businessman involved in football has! They reckon yachting is like standing in a shower pushing £20s down the plughole. I reckon owning a league club must be like regularly burning a pile of £20s while people shout out that you're a ***! The old joke is that if you want to make a small fortune as a football club owner, start out with a big fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: Apparently he doesnt want to sell at a loss. Presumably that means the initial outlay to buy the club, not the total he spent afterwards. Sounds to me that what he wants and what he gets is gradually being taken more and more out of his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 47 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: True. I'd go as far as to say virtually every successful businessman involved in football has! They reckon yachting is like standing in a shower pushing £20s down the plughole. I reckon owning a league club must be like regularly burning a pile of £20s while people shout out that you're a ***! The two best days in a yacht owners life are the day you buy the yacht - and the day you sell it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 Unless the law has changed it used to be both Tax and NI, if deducted at source but not paid over, remained the liability of the employee. The employer could be fined for breaching the agreed payment schedule but the ultimate debt sat with the employee. They became creditors re the amount of deductions but HMRC always got first cut. Used to be a problem in construction when shyster operators went bust leaving workers in limbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 3 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said: Are players actually on PAYE? Or are they more astute than that and paid as a contractor, as they are only guaranteed work (or payment) for the length of the contract, I would have thought doing it that way would be more tax efficient for them. Villa’s 16/17 staff costs are an anomaly at only £8.45m per annum, which suggest players are being paid or accounted for differently to most clubs. I don’t get where the other £70m is hidden in their accounts. https://document-api-images-prod.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/docs/fNGE40ByvCl3hSUMKUfO6sGQQAvRup35K8GDOsNt12E/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Content-Sha256=UNSIGNED-PAYLOAD&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAJULVCO6TSSMW6G4A%2F20180607%2Feu-west-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20180607T174111Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=FQoDYXdzEL7%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaDCNiJh%2Fqfwz1%2FeI2hCK3Azu5%2F9816pnUodbtCJtN1f%2BsgaEh8jeK7wTCAnIKuUW23duW%2Ftf%2FcpsAPmQaWlLs9C0PcUVO1VlEXP1nPJ80jcN%2FU0xas4%2F%2FrF2phi2edQzXm%2FceXToQn2bVCiSfgmy6b9gjcHwdN9g%2Baxd9YXqz31ba3T4c0OUyjYmYhilZf8dIo2ix8MkHT0JASICfMXow%2FxOKd5VFFdr%2Fn%2BaaruTF9uJS%2FoJZBOQ%2BVDwEL5SUC65Yo29fREIVow%2FkWUA1QYbr3oO3KP0sMdvafDGWC%2FX5vtL4ZClE1RcSBB68BzYCstX7RPtEwZagpuvdV7mqXmPR6blPC0OpxGCaQ%2F6HUU4rDsoBc3z%2BXeYz%2BGAr8pKjXv2Z5k%2BZ%2BshQrnt7nVHLKAEBhcVc8M09DiDh6NYv2Unb2rOZ7flY3UgroPG2upnRsX4rnd2vJVTsuuda1fhKu8WglqLdMoQry2YNbXwBF3HfrPmsj95KtWzlm3G1%2B3TmY2cCFrL%2FWmPCS5bukIOege%2FOOd3C1311IsK9n0xC9DrhYLoL5LK6DKhkchE60li6IOesF9PBBRBfC7N8t%2FbzIQ20cMwTtlDXNNMoj9zk2AU%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=967d387b4448c1c7c6a8420a296598aaab398088cedde7bef66818c811f50f1f @LondonBristolian - you’re my go-to man on accountancy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 14 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Villa’s 16/17 staff costs are an anomaly at only £8.45m per annum, which suggest players are being paid or accounted for differently to most clubs. I don’t get where the other £70m is hidden in their accounts. https://document-api-images-prod.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/docs/fNGE40ByvCl3hSUMKUfO6sGQQAvRup35K8GDOsNt12E/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Content-Sha256=UNSIGNED-PAYLOAD&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAJULVCO6TSSMW6G4A%2F20180607%2Feu-west-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20180607T174111Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=FQoDYXdzEL7%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaDCNiJh%2Fqfwz1%2FeI2hCK3Azu5%2F9816pnUodbtCJtN1f%2BsgaEh8jeK7wTCAnIKuUW23duW%2Ftf%2FcpsAPmQaWlLs9C0PcUVO1VlEXP1nPJ80jcN%2FU0xas4%2F%2FrF2phi2edQzXm%2FceXToQn2bVCiSfgmy6b9gjcHwdN9g%2Baxd9YXqz31ba3T4c0OUyjYmYhilZf8dIo2ix8MkHT0JASICfMXow%2FxOKd5VFFdr%2Fn%2BaaruTF9uJS%2FoJZBOQ%2BVDwEL5SUC65Yo29fREIVow%2FkWUA1QYbr3oO3KP0sMdvafDGWC%2FX5vtL4ZClE1RcSBB68BzYCstX7RPtEwZagpuvdV7mqXmPR6blPC0OpxGCaQ%2F6HUU4rDsoBc3z%2BXeYz%2BGAr8pKjXv2Z5k%2BZ%2BshQrnt7nVHLKAEBhcVc8M09DiDh6NYv2Unb2rOZ7flY3UgroPG2upnRsX4rnd2vJVTsuuda1fhKu8WglqLdMoQry2YNbXwBF3HfrPmsj95KtWzlm3G1%2B3TmY2cCFrL%2FWmPCS5bukIOege%2FOOd3C1311IsK9n0xC9DrhYLoL5LK6DKhkchE60li6IOesF9PBBRBfC7N8t%2FbzIQ20cMwTtlDXNNMoj9zk2AU%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=967d387b4448c1c7c6a8420a296598aaab398088cedde7bef66818c811f50f1f @LondonBristolian - you’re my go-to man on accountancy? Quality linkage there @Davefevs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, One Team In Keynsham said: Quality linkage there @Davefevs And quality quoting! @One Team In Keynsham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03375789/filing-history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 5 hours ago, Monkeh said: well if the wage bill is 61 million and the majority of those are players they'd be paying around 40% tax on average 40% of 61 is 24.4 divide by 12 works out at about 2 million a month Plus National Insurance, plus employer's NI, plus tax and NI on bonuses, plus tax and NI they might have on car allowances, employer paid accommodation, relocation expenses.... notably they probably had end of season bonuses in that payroll which spiked may. It's quite easy to double that number. I don't think HMRC are often very minded to wait 3 months for PAYE. It's deducted and source and thus should be paid immediately, it's like VAT, it isn't a business asset/cash. Its collection on behalf of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 3 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said: Are players actually on PAYE? Or are they more astute than that and paid as a contractor, as they are only guaranteed work (or payment) for the length of the contract, I would have thought doing it that way would be more tax efficient for them. Almost certainly employees and thus on PAYE. There isn't a single test for contractor v employed but rather question of 'on the balance of probabilities', a footballer registered to one club, only able to play for the club he's registered to... absolutely no chance you're going to get HMRC agree you're anything but an employee and subject to PAYE - in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 53 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Villa’s 16/17 staff costs are an anomaly at only £8.45m per annum, which suggest players are being paid or accounted for differently to most clubs. I don’t get where the other £70m is hidden in their accounts. https://document-api-images-prod.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/docs/fNGE40ByvCl3hSUMKUfO6sGQQAvRup35K8GDOsNt12E/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Content-Sha256=UNSIGNED-PAYLOAD&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAJULVCO6TSSMW6G4A%2F20180607%2Feu-west-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20180607T174111Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=FQoDYXdzEL7%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaDCNiJh%2Fqfwz1%2FeI2hCK3Azu5%2F9816pnUodbtCJtN1f%2BsgaEh8jeK7wTCAnIKuUW23duW%2Ftf%2FcpsAPmQaWlLs9C0PcUVO1VlEXP1nPJ80jcN%2FU0xas4%2F%2FrF2phi2edQzXm%2FceXToQn2bVCiSfgmy6b9gjcHwdN9g%2Baxd9YXqz31ba3T4c0OUyjYmYhilZf8dIo2ix8MkHT0JASICfMXow%2FxOKd5VFFdr%2Fn%2BaaruTF9uJS%2FoJZBOQ%2BVDwEL5SUC65Yo29fREIVow%2FkWUA1QYbr3oO3KP0sMdvafDGWC%2FX5vtL4ZClE1RcSBB68BzYCstX7RPtEwZagpuvdV7mqXmPR6blPC0OpxGCaQ%2F6HUU4rDsoBc3z%2BXeYz%2BGAr8pKjXv2Z5k%2BZ%2BshQrnt7nVHLKAEBhcVc8M09DiDh6NYv2Unb2rOZ7flY3UgroPG2upnRsX4rnd2vJVTsuuda1fhKu8WglqLdMoQry2YNbXwBF3HfrPmsj95KtWzlm3G1%2B3TmY2cCFrL%2FWmPCS5bukIOege%2FOOd3C1311IsK9n0xC9DrhYLoL5LK6DKhkchE60li6IOesF9PBBRBfC7N8t%2FbzIQ20cMwTtlDXNNMoj9zk2AU%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=967d387b4448c1c7c6a8420a296598aaab398088cedde7bef66818c811f50f1f @LondonBristolian - you’re my go-to man on accountancy? However, Harry Redknapp is the go to man on tax. At his first meeting with Tony Xia 'Arry asked the Villa owner "have you got a dog? If not, get one" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 On 06/06/2018 at 08:03, ScottishRed said: And that is exactly why we will never get promotion. Its is nothing more than fantasy to suggest that model will be successful. The very clear way to a self sustained club is get promotion and then be HUGELY careful with the proceeds. Witness Burnley. Accept , and that includes us too, that you may be a yo-yo club for a few seasons, but with good management and astute recruitment you can become an established PL team. Getting there on the dream of 11 local lads from the Academy is just that - a dream. So did Burnley break the bank to get into the Prem? Did Huddersfield? Did Swansea? Did Stoke? Did Blackpool? Did Palace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider_boy Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 2 hours ago, 29AR said: Almost certainly employees and thus on PAYE. There isn't a single test for contractor v employed but rather question of 'on the balance of probabilities', a footballer registered to one club, only able to play for the club he's registered to... absolutely no chance you're going to get HMRC agree you're anything but an employee and subject to PAYE - in my opinion. Yep, no doubt they are employed. Some of the higher profile players try to structure their affairs to ensure they receive image rights payments etc more tax efficient, and some clubs tried to reduce tax liabilities by paying players through Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTS). I believe this is what Rangers and HMRC have spent years arguing over in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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