LJ publicly puts pressure on SL for signings

[headhunter]

30 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Sorry he knew Wright and Hegeler were both injured before the season started, he also knew that Djuric was leaving and nothing was done reference cover.

Re. Djuric - am I right in thinking the Italian window shuts at the end of August? If that is correct and knowing Fam was out until the Blackburn game [Swansea if Plymouth hadn't beaten us!] could the deal with the club he went to not been agreed in principle but put on hold for 5 weeks? Or was it better to take the money while Djuric was able to run, i.e. his injury issues are such that the risk is he'd more than likely be crocked and the deal wouldn't happen?

[REDOXO]

we were dreadful yesterday. Boro never got out of second gear throughout the game. I was watching on BCTV and the utter chump who kept telling me how close we run them and the positives really should stick to commentary on JUST the game, his opinion is worthless 

We were without several players. Hegeler the new Sick Note King, Wright, Baker, Moore (as if he is getting anywhere near the starting 11) the lad from Scunthorpe and of course DIehdiou. So there are mitigating circumstances, but we were still awful. We played nearly all of our football in front of them and they stood around and watched us, occasionally winning the ball and breaking on us....They didn’t have to do anything else!!!

The telling moment came after, with LJ crying about players who seem ready to come back and then change their mind, th FA and the lack of a center back.

He seemed totally befuddled and exasperated. Why? Because of short term injuries becoming long term injuries or is something else is going on? Hegeler a million miles away, this guy has always been a total waste of money...The comment that we made a profit on Magnússon was thrown out again, yesterday, Djuric gone....I’m just thinking there is something else going on that has not met the eye yet 

[boss hogg]

6 hours ago, Rob k said:

Fair play to him - as my friend said, we lost 30m of talent and replaced it with 10m, he should put pressure on those above to give him the tools to work with, as it stands with this squad I’m happy to finish anywhere between 15-20th. 

Again as pointed out somewhere on here, Boro front 2 yesterday cost more than our whole squad, that’s what we’re up against 

he,s also brought in 40 players enough to field 3 teams , how many more does he want , he,s the master of deflecting blame.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

8 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

By that definition then, you have to say neither side created clear cut chances.

Goals from a defensive mistake and a free kick from distance that should have been easily defended are not down to some outstanding play.

When you think about it, that vast majority of goals scored by all clubs are speculative - and usuallh require errors to have been made by the opponent. 

On a related point, ven when Famara returns, I think the only time we'll do well this season is when we realise that we have some of the fastest players in the dovision - and utilise that speed.

I'm really not trying to be pedantic but once the ball is at the feet of the guy who scored the first it becomes a clear cut chance, however it occurs.

And of course Middlesborough didn't need to create chances they were 2-0 up without breaking sweat, because I believe we are an easy team to play against.

[spudski]

9 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

And not for the first time you misrepresent what I have said and to add an early post script, I listen and read posts and don't need your arrogant remarks, I cannot see anything in my post that does that to you, it just questions your view, I seem to remember your plea for discussion, that is what I have done.

I believe very little of what anybody says about anything, especially in the absence of evidence and you for one should know I have taken with a pinch of salt the so called improvements on the field, however they are spun.

My problem is lack of honesty and clarity and to be honest lack of professionalism with some of our recruitment, we are either drip fed or starved of information, no explanations of when things go wrong, but huge fanfares when something goes right or when the latest BCFC 'give us yer ******* money' scheme is launched we are inundated with information.

I believe nearly 3 years into LJ's tenure the fans are entitled more information about where the club actually stands on it's ambitions, the fans have done their bit by spending millions on increasing our average crowd and season ticket sales and bought into spending millions in the food and drink outlets and the commercial side, I don't think that a little more honesty is too much to ask.

 

I'm not sure how you expect me not to misunderstand, when you say...

Quote... ' I would like to bring up a 2nd point of order with Spudski and his posts, he seems to try to deflect blame on to the fans and their so called expectations and their lack of knowledge of how modern football operates, which I do not agree with.'

Quote... 'Don't blame the fans for expectation, blame the club for lack of honesty and bullshit. '

I've done neither...and pulled you up on your misunderstanding. You've read into something completely wrongly....and as I've said, others have understood my posts and replied accordingly.

It's only you that has seen it wrongly.

As for entitled to more 'info on ambition'...they are a business, trying to do what every other club is trying to do. Every club is run differently. All make mistakes, some get it right...most don't.

As a football fan, it's not rocket science to work out where we stand in this league.

LJ has come out and spoke about what we are up against with other clubs. we know the finances etc.

Nobody in their right mind running a business, is going to come out and say, we are just hoping to survive and do the best we can. Who's going to support or put money into that?

 

[chinapig]

20 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Fans weren’t demanding we overpaid players agents and fees and became a bit of a joke in the football world as a soft touch 

If (and I emphasise if) the story of Matty Taylor being on £16k a week are in any way true we clearly have learnt a limited lesson 

With you on your first paragraph,there has historically been a lack of professional nous.

No idea on the second, though I tend not to take much notice of claims as to how much a given player is paid.

There do remain though fans desperate for so called big name or marquee signings regardless of the costs and potential consequences.

[maxjak]

11 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

we were dreadful yesterday. Boro never got out of second gear throughout the game. I was watching on BCTV and the utter chump who kept telling me how close we run them and the positives really should stick to commentary on JUST the game, his opinion is worthless 

We were without several players. Hegeler the new Sick Note King, Wright, Baker, Moore (as if he is getting anywhere near the starting 11) the lad from Scunthorpe and of course DIehdiou. So there are mitigating circumstances, but we were still awful. We played nearly all of our football in front of them and they stood around and watched us, occasionally winning the ball and breaking on us....They didn’t have to do anything else!!!

The telling moment came after, with LJ crying about players who seem ready to come back and then change their mind, th FA and the lack of a center back.

He seemed totally befuddled and exasperated. Why? Because of short term injuries becoming long term injuries or is something else is going on? Hegeler a million miles away, this guy has always been a total waste of money...The comment that we made a profit on Magnússon was thrown out again, yesterday, Djuric gone....I’m just thinking there is something else going on that has not met the eye yet 

I'm certain that Hegeler is sulking, as he can now only use single player Pro Evo.......due to the other honorary member of the Sicknote Society high tailing it to Serie B.  

[RedM]

1 hour ago, maxjak said:

Surely the message to young incoming players, when they see 3 of our best sold is..............If I play to the best of my ability, work hard and respond to the coaching made available, then I too will get noticed and  possibly earn a lucrative move to the Premiership?  That motivation will benefit the team and keep our finances buoyant.   Seems like a Win, Win to me?

I can see that of course but then they don’t fully buy into the Bristol City idea. They are purely in a job for themselves, they want to progress but not necessarily with the club. They might not want to help and nurture younger players along the way if they only think of themselves and are only going to be here relatively short term. This could cause splits in the dressing room etc.

I’d like to think it was an all round win win as you see it but it’s just as much win/lose I think.

[maxjak]

30 minutes ago, RedM said:

I can see that of course but then they don’t fully buy into the Bristol City idea. They are purely in a job for themselves, they want to progress but not necessarily with the club. They might not want to help and nurture younger players along the way if they only think of themselves and are only going to be here relatively short term. This could cause splits in the dressing room etc.

I’d like to think it was an all round win win as you see it but it’s just as much win/lose I think.

Respect your view, but.....................I believe the days of a Steve Gerrard or [closer to home] Louis Carey are long gone, and that essentially all players are in it for themselves, and that the sucess of the club is merely a byproduct of that. Loyalty no longer exists in football.  Eg. Bobby Reid, one good season at the club who have nurtured and helped him develop his talent...............One offer, and he's GONE.  [And who wouldn't do exactly the same]

[Ashtonwurzel]

4 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Point one I’ll give you. I suppose I’m still a little hurt from the stick Cotts got at the end of his tenure here when defenders individual mistakes were costing us left right and centre. No one had an iota of sympathy then. 

Point two I don’t agree with. Had Pisano been on the right and had the attack come from the right, or had there been a LB at LB then I think the player gets a lot closer to Downing. Pisano got nowhere near, to the extent it may have well been 16st me at LB. That was LJ’s team selection and therefore he must shoulder some blame for it. 

I really don’t get this whole, “let’s all be content because it was Middlesboro” mantra that some seem to have. We shouldn’t be so comfortably beaten at home by anyone in this league. 

We will never know about point two but in my opinion as Downing found himself in so much space initially because of an overload created in his favour by some excellent midfield passing by Boro whether the full back was left or right footed was academic.

I do agree though in hindsight LJ should have started Dasilva at LB.

Can see Hunt being dropped to the bench for Tuesday (lJ very angry with him !) and Pisano at RB and Dasilva in at LB.

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, Ashtonwurzel said:

Can see Hunt being dropped to the bench for Tuesday (lJ very angry with him !) 

??

I missed this 

Possible you could expand 

[Robbored]

Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

??

I missed this 

Possible you could expand 

Hunt make a bad error for the Boro first goal and LJ said post match that “you see that kind of defending in the u9s” - or words to that effect. He was obviously pissed about it but not exactly angry.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

Hunt make a bad error for the Boro first goal and LJ said post match that “you see that kind of defending in the u9s” - or words to that effect. He was obviously pissed about it but not exactly angry.

Ahhh ok heard that

He was certainly none too impressed , on the RB post match similar

Would have thought (And would hope LJ would think ) %90 of blame was Webster’s 

[Dullmoan Tone]

This thread is a great debate and thankfully a diversion from all the Johnson Out threads but I'm not sure our performances are wholly about funding or players really. I'll offer it's about courage or LJ's conviction and his ability to translate this to his players.

LJ has to find the courage to tackle our weaknesses and truly commit to our / his philosophy perhaps by:

Playing DeSilva instead of an out of position Pisano (what message does this send to the Chelsea lad) - we have signed him whether he is ready or not we must now develop him on the pitch before he returns in May. I could say the same with Eliasson.

Playing a consistent home and away strategy that simplifies the tactics - do other teams really have such a marked contrast in performances and selections home and away. How often can you name the starting line up accurately on the way to the ground now?

Recognising he was only one short of his preferred back 4 - surely Hunt, DeSilva and Webster are first choices (and frankly Kelly cannot be made to feel his inclusion was the reason behind the goals conceded) we must believe in this unit and not seek to loan more players to either not play them, or let them idle on the bench and never integrate when the first choice Baker and Wright return.

We have played well without Fam before, we used Reid effectively with Pato. Weimann is clearly a direct Reid replacement it should not be too difficult to set up in a similar way again. LJ was being too clever hoping Watkins speed would unsettle Flint but a system so new would never work - I think this was why Pack was struggling to find the passes he normally makes so reliably.

He recognised first half we were too slow getting the ball forward and said so in his interview, he must find the courage to adapt the tactics mid game, surely he doesn't need them all sitting around in the dressing room to get them to understand they need to move it via midfield faster.

I disagree with the "pretty football" comment above we are rarely pretty now - perhaps Sunderland (before the meltdown) and Sheffield Weds were the last time I thought we were easy on the eye; LJ has an approach he makes work with the personel he has, but they need coaching to continue to make runs - watching Man City today shows how players create multiple options for those with the ball, we often create a single route, so if it's not seen, it goes backwards and is then launched. He needs the courage to get people playing the game we can play - whether we have Flint/Reid/Bryan or not. Webster was Ok yesterday and we quickly forget the diving block he made that Flint so rarely did when we were shipping goals for fun.

We have to accept the financial reality and commit to a consistent set of instructions - if he can do this (I don't think there is any evidence he will btw) I firmly believe we can actually compete mid table.

 

[Red Cloud]

8 hours ago, Moor2Sea said:

But would you trust LJ with any money?

Five/six windows and 40 plus players in and STILL need a ‘spine’ of leaders, physically and mentally robust, consistent 7/10 players. Keeper, centre back, centre midfield, centre forward. 

I think some may view his chances as running out, and that now may include SL.

‘Talks a good game’ similar to ‘Knows what he needs,’ but time and time again he fails to deliver. Staggering.

He’s clearly identified a lack of leaders and players ready to stand up to the physical challenge of the Championship. What ‘leaders’and ‘warriors’ did he buy in this Summer?

Its all now becoming a bit of a shambles I fear. 

I was thinking that, he asked for 3 transfer windows and has had at least 5, signed dozens and dozens of players and we still look kak (most of the time), why would SL give him any more money? - I wouldn't, LJ has had unbelievable support from the board and blown it and now wants more money!

[boss hogg]

think it would really help if lj didnt come out with comments such as europe in 5 years , premier league club in training, total bull shit, the bloke is full of himself , has he ever said after a game that it was his fault got my tactics wrong etc, hoping sl wakes up soon and gives him the chop before its to late, wont hold my breath .

[BITW]

58 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Ahhh ok heard that

He was certainly none too impressed , on the RB post match similar

Would have thought (And would hope LJ would think ) %90 of blame was Webster’s 

Him and Hunt both absolutely pathetic for the first goal. Without seeing the replay I think it was Hunt who was outjumped for the second aswell.

[Robin Ashton]

4 minutes ago, Red Cloud said:

I was thinking that, he asked for 3 transfer windows and has had at least 5, signed dozens and dozens of players and we still look kak (most of the time), why would SL give him any more money? - I wouldn't, LJ has had unbelievable support from the board and blown it and now wants more money!

I've said it before, but we were pretty good after 3 windows. Pity it wrong about the time of the 4th.

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, BITW said:

Him and Hunt both absolutely pathetic for the first goal. Without seeing the replay I think it was Hunt who was outjumped for the second aswell.

Webster mainly at fault for first , Hunt finished off the error 

and It was but Assombalonga was climbing all over him (foul)

[havanatopia]

6 hours ago, irishreds said:

LJ / MA and their recruitment team can't seem to spot the right players. The Marlon Pack post last week with supporters stating he's our most important player, and we'll struggle if he leaves . Pack was signed in 2013 by SO'D. Surely 3 or 4 of LJ / MA's 40 plus signings should now be the most influential players at the club. It's hell of a mess for the next first team coach or hopefully manager to sort out The substantial money recouped in the summer is from Cotts signings / the academy, as several supporters have said, what is the current value of LJ / MA's signings. SL must bring in a manager with a proven track record, it will be more cost effective too. We can't spend millions on players who don't make the first team. 

Flint was an O'Driscoll signing.

Otherwise you make some good points.

Like any club SL has two choices as it gets harder each year to reach the riches of the PL; 

1. He employs someone who has a number of promotions under their belt from tier 2 to tier 1; there are not many. Hughes, Warnock, Allardyce. Warnock probably has the best record of promoting a team without spending much in comparison to others. The Cardiff success was probably his greatest achievement and he said it himself.

2. Or, he employs someone like Lee Johnson but he backs him substantially more than he is doing. You have to, the competition is fierce and relentless. Faffing about with mediocre players is increasingly not going to get u promoted with a relatively inexperienced manager; the odds are simply too great.

So SL has chosen neither of these routes for what? To hang around in a league where it is nigh on impossible to make a profit all the while watching the difficulty level increase every year. Where the pay out bonanza is 100 million plus for failure instead of a few hundred k for ending up 11th in the Championship.

This is all down to the owners philosophy and it has not been working for a decade.

 

[Ashtonwurzel]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

??

I missed this 

Possible you could expand 

comments in post match interview re schoolboy defending for first goal and individual errors costing = aimed at Hunt.

LJ seemed very angry.

[Loosey Boy]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Ahhh ok heard that

He was certainly none too impressed , on the RB post match similar

Would have thought (And would hope LJ would think ) %90 of blame was Webster’s 

Webster' error was worse!

Why didn't he just head the bl@@dy ball instead of trying to duck under it?!

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Loosey Boy said:

Webster' error was worse!

Why didn't he just head the bl@@dy ball instead of trying to duck under it?!

It is inadmissible when a player ducks a ball , especially à Centre back . 

Any one missing Mags ? 

[BigAl&Toby]

10 hours ago, Rob k said:

Fair play to him - as my friend said, we lost 30m of talent and replaced it with 10m, he should put pressure on those above to give him the tools to work with, as it stands with this squad I’m happy to finish anywhere between 15-20th. 

Again as pointed out somewhere on here, Boro front 2 yesterday cost more than our whole squad, that’s what we’re up against 

Is that what it is? £30M out and £10M in?

Whale eye beef hooked as someone else once was called.

What’s happened to the missing £20M? Doesn’t seem to have been reinvested. 

Someones had a dividend. Or a bonus. 

And there my friends lays the problem. Others have far more appetite to succeed.....

[Mr Popodopolous]

@BigAlToby&Liam

What % of the 30m (was actually around 26 million I think) do you think should have been reinvested in the side?

As in, what should our net spend (or profit) have been this summer? (Excluding wages of course, we can only guess them).

[Ivorguy]

There is very little evidence that the owner genuinely wants top flight football, at least of the round ball variety.

We are what we were before SL and BS arrived, a yo yo club between top of third tier and bottom of second tier, with one excursion each to the first and fourth tier.

True this is better than the other Bristol club, but it isn't good enough

Back in the day when both clubs were in the second tier, and both with an England striker, some of us really began to believe that Bristol would make a firm mark on the nation's football. How wrong we were. SL is highly unlikely after all these years in ownership imo to change this

[Davefevs]

41 minutes ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Is that what it is? £30M out and £10M in?

Whale eye beef hooked as someone else once was called.

What’s happened to the missing £20M? Doesn’t seem to have been reinvested. 

Someones had a dividend. Or a bonus. 

And there my friends lays the problem. Others have far more appetite to succeed.....

Looks like we may have lost £18.4m in 17/18!!!

We need to be careful to not only look at fees alone.  The £10m spent on players doesn't include signing on fees, nor agent fees.  We have also extended contracts for Pato and Pack, undoubtedly on higher wages, whilst also securing Kelly, Vyner and O’Leary to longer deals, again on higher wages (albeit not likely to be too significant)

When 17/18 accounts are published there is gonna be a fair bit of scrutiny.

If we have indeed lost £18.4m, then I would say that we didn’t make best use of those resources.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Webster mainly at fault for first , Hunt finished off the error 

and It was but Assombalonga was climbing all over him (foul)

Hunt never even knew Assombalonga was behind him because he never bothered to look (the same as the first goal) and he needed to much stronger when the grappling started, Assombalonga wanted it more.

[SStandUp]

12 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

LJ states that we need to bring more players in his aftermatch press conference.

I agree with him but ;

It puts pressure on SL publicly which deflects responsibility for results from LJ and I'm sure this will anger the owner.

As Fielding said on the BCTV commentary all the players at the club,  bar him and Pack , are LJ's signings so what we have is down to him.

 I don't believe that now is the moment to undermine a new team by , effectively saying ' you're not good enough '.

A destructive interview IMHO LJ  has put himself under a lot of pressure.

 

Lansdown asking for top 10 after selling our 3 best players and not reinvesting to replace the quality is not putting Johnson under pressure?

**** me!!

Ofcourse Johnson is gunna be frustrated, he's looking at his squad and knows it's damn sight weaker than last year? But everyone is expecting progression?

Wouldn't you be a little pee'd off? 

[SStandUp]

11 hours ago, spudski said:

Whilst the Clubs philosophy is admirable...It's not going to give us a chance of any type of Promotion in the near future.

However...I'm not sure of a solution anymore, as we cannot compete with the amount of money floating around in this division. And it's only going to get worse imo.

What we have developed is way of competing in this division, without the money, that will give us a chance to establish ourselves in the division, but not a chance in hell of promotion.

It's a catch 22 tbh.

When fans talk about brining in a new coach or manager, I'm not sure there are many out there that would agree to work under the Clubs philosophy...as it is long term, and the majority of managers work short term. It's how it is...regardless of what's agreed at interview stage. Once a manager or coach has got that 3-4 year contract under his belt, the mindset is all about self survival, not Club survival, as it's their career...they need short term success to keep in the shop window.

I can see us becoming like the 'Crewe' of the Championship if we continue in the same philosophy. LJ being like Dario Gradi.

Whilst I believe LJ wants the philosophy to work, he's now finding out how difficult it's going to be, especially when you do have a half decent season and you lose 3 of your better players in one go. That's the future under this philosophy.

At some point the pressure will become too much and either he will leave, or get sacked, and the next coach manager will be an inexperienced coach or manager at this level, who see's it as a big opportunity and will say anything to get the job.

Not many experienced managers would come here and actually work with the Clubs philosophy.

I can see it becoming like when Mick was at Ipswich...knowing the limitations and doing the best you can...being very honest in interviews but with an air of frustration as deep down you know you are just keeping a ship afloat.

What a fantastic post. One of the best I've seen on here in a while !!

Some realism at last! 

Johnson can already feel the pressure! The fans are just waiting to go for his throats. I can imagine he's thinking, hold on a minute, you rip away £25m of quality from my team and expect us to be better?

I think Lansdowns comments pre season about expecting progression and top 10 is an absolute joke!