Could all the 'LJ out' brigade post here please...

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Mtimmy11 said:

I spoke to Steve cotterill at the bristol Marriott just before he took the Birmingham job with Harry and believe me he was not backed.He knew his time was up a month before a ball was kicked.this is one of the main reasons I can’t take to little lee

I think Cotts is great. He revived us somewhat ahead of schedule. He partly inherited and partly purchased had assembled a good young squad that had gone up with talent, potential- not only winning third tier but the JPT as well.

The problem as I see it is that the targets at that time weren't necessarily financially viable.

Clubs at this time before rules changed could only lose 5 million per season. Ground was still being redeveloped, attendances were what 16k- we were walking a tight line tbh! I think clubs at this level were almost in open revolt at the very tight loss limit.

The fees let alone wages...not terribly viable at that time IMO for the likes of Gayle etc.

[RedRock]

Play more aggressive football

Play high tempo football

Play forward thinking football

Recruit power players and winners

 

What’s not to like about the last week.

Good job Lee reads OTIB

[ashtonphil mk2]

7 hours ago, Robbored said:

Just before Xmas prior to Cotterills dismissal SL was guest speaker at Senior Reds. He said before SC was sacked in January that Cotterill had asked for the money to buy Gray/Gayle and told SL that he’d “got all I can” from the existing squad. SL said “ I didn’t believe him”. We looked at each other across the table and to a man realised that SCs days were numbered........

In my view SC was out of his depth in the Championship - I know you won’t agree Dave!

Don't normally agree with you but I was also at the lunch and will confirm that is what was said.

If Cotterill thought his days were numbered before ball was kicked - surely he should have resigned!!  Being a man of principle and a winner and all that 

[Nogbad the Bad]

25 minutes ago, ashtonphil mk2 said:

Don't normally agree with you but I was also at the lunch and will confirm that is what was said.

If Cotterill thought his days were numbered before ball was kicked - surely he should have resigned!!  Being a man of principle and a winner and all that 

Cotterill's not a quitter and you forget perhaps the wonderful team spirit he engendered in the young team he created.

His clear intention was to build on these young lads and head straight for the next level, no doubt at all about that.

I don't think walking out on 'his boys' was in his make up at all.

[Red-Robbo]

I'm not going to get drawn in again with debates about previous managers ...

BUT

Although I can understand why threads like this arise, they are pointless.

There will be a mass-slitiing of wrists and bitter recriminations as soon as City lose two on the bounce, which - during the forthcoming 41 games -  they are a racing certainty to. 

This is the nature of Otib: euphoria or despair.  Twas ever thus. I think the internet encourages those two extremes.

Me, I'm just happy the team is doing better than I imagined at this early stage. I don't  know if we can draw any long-term conclusions yet about a side featuring loads of players we're just getting to know.

[bcfcredandwhite]

I am not a ‘Lover’ or ‘Happy Clapper’ - nor a  ‘hater’. 

I just look at the CURRENT table for this season. 

I find myself defending LJ more than criticising him because of the unfair stick he gets at times.  That doesn’t mean he is immortal as far as I am concerned - far from it - I’ll criticise when I see fit. 

For now he hasn’t done much wrong and we have just secured 6 points in 2 away games. A good achievement. 

However, it’s early days and still time for things to go wrong - or to take off brilliantly. 

Time will tell - but as I have stated before, I will reserve judgement on our manager until December. For now I am happy with him. 

[ChippenhamRed]

17 hours ago, Trueredsupporte said:

Lee Johnson has spent more money than any manager in BCFC history and has a big squad. Steve Cotterill didn't. 

If Alan Dicks was up against rivals spending £10m on strikers you might have a point.

Such a weak argument.

[Harry]

42 points from safety 

[Judda]

5 hours ago, billywedlock said:

LJ earns another go, despite the ridiculous crash for half of last season. I do not rate him as a leader of the club, but I would rather he prove me wrong than gain zero satisfaction for the club struggling. It is very early days, and Kelly and Weimann look to be big shining light so far. It is a long season, getting 2 wins early doors is excellent as it gives you a little platform already for the first group of  games , It was needed, as early form was terrible. 

This season LJ has to perform, he has been given, again, huge financial support (despite the player sales, we are spending) has signed huge numbers of players, been given time by the club, and fans, you have to say. Deliver and all will be happy. It does not matter what anyone writes on here, LJ has been given everything to deliver , and we are not talking promotion, I do not feel anyone  feels that is the expectation, but a decent balanced season, with a consistent game plan, logic, intelligence, progress in player development, but most of all no more excuses and blaming everyone else. Then the silver spooned coach might convert the people that have doubts. 

Agree with everything you have said except that last sentence! 

[Odysseus]

If people don’t want to back our man you shouldn’t argue that he needs to win your respect either. People often assume loyalty applies to everyone but themselves. That’s unless you view yourself as a customer rather than a supporter. 

Johnson has already reached what was expected as a young manager. The majority here thought we were certain to be relegated under him. People have short memories. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

9 minutes ago, Odysseus said:

If people don’t want to back our man you shouldn’t argue that he needs to win your respect either. People often assume loyalty applies to everyone but themselves. That’s unless you view yourself as a customer rather than a supporter. 

Johnson has already reached what was expected as a young manager. The majority here thought we were certain to be relegated under him. People have short memories. 

I reckon this is a lot to do with it. Football has moved away from it's humble origins and it is very much now a part of the wider "entertainment" culture, and people "know their rights" nowadays and are not slow to complain where they think they are being short-changed. 

Everything in football now is inflated/ramped up/super-charged: the cost of tickets, the players wages, the investment needed for success, the media coverage, the glittering palaces that go for grounds nowadays, the expectations, the reaction to disappointment, the polished self-publicity clubs put out, the opportunity to complain and criticise. Losing doesn't sit well with much of that other than the last!

Football has gone down the "customer" route, and moved away from the "supporter" tradition of the game, and cannot be too surprised if and when some people respond to poor results more like 21st century customers than 1950s supporters.

 

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

6 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

I reckon this is a lot to do with it. Football has moved away from it's humble origins and it is very much now a part of the wider "entertainment" culture, and people "know their rights" nowadays and are not slow to complain where they think they are being short-changed. 

Everything in football now is inflated/ramped up/super-charged: the cost of tickets, the players wages, the investment needed for success, the media coverage, the glittering palaces that go for grounds nowadays, the expectations, the reaction to disappointment, the polished self-publicity clubs put out, the opportunity to complain and criticise. Losing doesn't sit well with much of that other than the last!

Football has gone down the "customer" route, and moved away from the "supporter" tradition of the game, and cannot be too surprised if and when some people respond to poor results more like 21st century customers than 1950s supporters.

 

 

This to a certain extent. A lot of the criticism I see and hear is from older supporters (of which I am one) and I believe it is largely due to what football has become as much as it is to do with how the team are performing. We now have the instant reaction (hopefully regretted on reflection) of social media which I don`t see as a good thing at all - there are some extremely nasty and vicious things said on those media which the person saying them would never dare to say to their target`s face - where every word is analysed to the nth degree and pulled apart to try and fit someone`s agenda and a lot of us (me included) would rather be watching City in the `good old days` before the game became the monster it now is with every part of it being on twitter or facebook.

The money that has come in has been a force for good in some ways (stadium redevelopments being the main one IMO) but not in others (obscene wages, slick marketing, a disconnect from fans with many feeling it`s not their club any more, a dread of failure and falling off the gravy train and many other things) but cash is what it`s all about now at the exclusion of everything else.

I know things move on and we have to adapt as we do in all walks of life but a lot of us I think would rather go back to the way it was before the money men took over. If we could have that but without the violence, crap facilities and a few other things I think the joy of supporting your club would return and we could accept a bit of failure like we always did in the past. After all, the lows were what made the highs that much more special.

Sorry for the ramble!

[bcfcredandwhite]

21 hours ago, Trueredsupporte said:

Lee Johnson has spent more money than any manager in BCFC history and has a big squad. Steve Cotterill didn't. 

I’ve seen this argument/accusation from several posters, on here and on other forums. 

Firstly, it’s SL who has actually SPENT the money - but that’s just nitpicking. 

People say Cotts wasn’t backed with finance, but we put 2 huge bids in excess of £10m for Dwight Gayle and Andre Gray. Had either one of those gone through then Cotts would have landed the most expensive player in our history - even now! 

Cotts did have money available but wasn’t able to land his targets. We wouldn’t have made those bids if the funds hadn’t been available.  

[ChippenhamRed]

30 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

I’ve seen this argument/accusation from several posters, on here and on other forums. 

Firstly, it’s SL who has actually SPENT the money - but that’s just nitpicking. 

People say Cotts wasn’t backed with finance, but we put 2 huge bids in excess of £10m for Dwight Gayle and Andre Gray. Had either one of those gone through then Cotts would have landed the most expensive player in our history - even now! 

Cotts did have money available but wasn’t able to land his targets. We wouldn’t have made those bids if the funds hadn’t been available.  

Plus the absolute figures on what has been spent are largely irrelevant if you don’t factor in inflation and the exponential growth in transfer fees over the last decade or so.

For example, the 2008 Nicky Maynard wouldn’t have cost £2.5m in today’s market.

Our budget remains relatively modest compared to many of our rivals, and our position in that pecking order has been roughly the same for a number of years.

Of course this sort of nuance is lost on those who can’t look beyond the total money spent and would prefer to use it as a stick with which to beat the manager.

[Redtucks]

22 hours ago, Trueredsupporte said:

Lee Johnson has spent more money than any manager in BCFC history and has a big squad. Steve Cotterill didn't. 

Lee Johnson has also made more money than any manager in BCFC history.

 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

31 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Plus the absolute figures on what has been spent are largely irrelevant if you don’t factor in inflation and the exponential growth in transfer fees over the last decade or so.

For example, the 2008 Nicky Maynard wouldn’t have cost £2.5m in today’s market.

Our budget remains relatively modest compared to many of our rivals, and our position in that pecking order has been roughly the same for a number of years.

Of course this sort of nuance is lost on those who can’t look beyond the total money spent and would prefer to use it as a stick with which to beat the manager.

Agreed. We also had a small squad when LJ first arrived and needed more bodies otherwise we’d probably have got relegated.

That means a reasonable outlay and players incoming, as we saw in the 15/16 Jan window and 16/17 summer window. 

Since then, our net spend hasn’t been enormously high. We just needed more players to begin with.

[Davefevs]

12 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Cotterill's not a quitter and you forget perhaps the wonderful team spirit he engendered in the young team he created.

His clear intention was to build on these young lads and head straight for the next level, no doubt at all about that.

I don't think walking out on 'his boys' was in his make up at all.

You picked up and wrote the 3 things I thought:

• winner (!!!) not a quitter
• hoped to build on a successful season....he really thought City could go again and carchbteams by surprise (quote at the end of season celebration at the Lloyds Amphitheater)
• ”his boys” 

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

You picked up and wrote the 3 things I thought:

• winner (!!!) not a quitter
• hoped to build on a successful season....he really thought City could go again and catch teams by surprise (quote at the end of season celebration at the Lloyds Amphitheater)
• ”his boys” 

No doubt about it Dave, I asked him as much at the Amphitheatre, 'same again next season Cotts?'

He replied with a grin, 'You don't ask for much do you, but, by God, we'll give it a damn good go.'

 

[Trueredsupporter]

1 hour ago, Redtucks said:

Lee Johnson has also made more money than any manager in BCFC history.

 

 

If a Manager had more money than any other he is very likely to make more  but fella that is not point that was made. It was about if Steve Cotterill had similar sums of money would he had continued as he did??? its bloody stupid to suggest he would have done exactly the same. One thing that can be said about Cotterill is he bought few duffers. 

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Trueredsupporte said:

If a Manager had more money than any other he is very likely to make more  but fella that is not point that was made. It was about if Steve Cotterill had similar sums of money would he had continued as he did??? its bloody stupid to suggest he would have done exactly the same. One thing that can be said about Cotterill is he bought few duffers. 

 

Who do you consider duffers?

[Mtimmy11]

4 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

I’ve seen this argument/accusation from several posters, on here and on other forums. 

Firstly, it’s SL who has actually SPENT the money - but that’s just nitpicking. 

People say Cotts wasn’t backed with finance, but we put 2 huge bids in excess of £10m for Dwight Gayle and Andre Gray. Had either one of those gone through then Cotts would have landed the most expensive player in our history - even now! 

Cotts did have money available but wasn’t able to land his targets. We wouldn’t have made those bids if the funds hadn’t been available.  

I asked him about these targets and he said when it came to the nitty gritty of wages we were not even in the same ball park as the other clubs.he felt like he was misleading the agents

[Alessandro]

I’m not interested in getting into LJ vs Cotterill, pointless in my opinion.

But what I will say in transfers, is that under Cotterill, there was no real plan in place.

Since MA and LJ there has been a plan, agree with it or not, which has enabled the club to back it’s current manger like it has never been able to a previous one.

Yes, £40m plus has been spent, but £50m has come back in.

‘LJ’s era’, and I’ll call it that, because ultimately it’s the club that make the transfer decisions, has a net gain on transfers.

But regardless of all that - the single most important thing is overlooked all he time IMO when I see people write things like ‘LJ is the most backed City manager ever’. 

It’s totally missing the point. It actually matters sod all to the right here right now. There is no point in comparing to previous managers or eras because we are operating in an era of football unlike ever before.

So simple terms, it doesn’t matter if LJ is the most back manager of BCFC ever, it matters how he is backed compared to the other managers in the division. That is the only comparison that matters, not Cotterill or SOD, Coppell or whoever.

And the bottom line is that in terms of total transfer spend and wage bills, we are at best a team around 8th-12th. Anything above that and we are over-achieving. It’s been said time and again but the reality is there are teams who spend more than we do in total each window on one player and can still blow us out of the water with wages. 

So 8th-12th would be where I expect us to be this season. Anything more and Mr Johnson has us achieving as a team greater than our parts, anything less and the pressure will be on LJ in my opinion, especially after the last few seasons.

[Redtucks]

3 hours ago, Trueredsupporte said:

If a Manager had more money than any other he is very likely to make more  but fella that is not point that was made. It was about if Steve Cotterill had similar sums of money would he had continued as he did??? its bloody stupid to suggest he would have done exactly the same. One thing that can be said about Cotterill is he bought few duffers. 

 

My point is that if a manager makes a lot of money by selling players then he is entitled to spend that money buying others.

There's two sides to the argument.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, there was money available to Cotterill.

Cotterill's targets, Gayle and Gray, were unrealistic with regard to salaries.

 

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

10 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

People say Cotts wasn’t backed with finance, but we put 2 huge bids in excess of £10m for Dwight Gayle and Andre Gray...

Considerable bids, yes, but not in excess of £10m....

[BS4 on Tour...]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Who do you consider duffers?

I think the poster was saying that Cotterill bought ‘few duffers’ rather than ‘a few duffers’ - ie he was praising Cotts’ transfer dealings...

[Northern Red]

The only permanent signing that Cotterill got wrong was Adam El-Abd. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

10 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

The only permanent signing that Cotterill got wrong was Adam El-Abd. 

I must admit I`ve been racking my brain for ten minutes and can`t think of another one TBH.

[Davefevs]

15 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I think the poster was saying that Cotterill bought ‘few duffers’ rather than ‘a few duffers’ - ie he was praising Cotts’ transfer dealings...

Sorry @Trueredsupporte I misread. Ta

[Esmond Million's Bung]

15 hours ago, Northern Red said:

The only permanent signing that Cotterill got wrong was Adam El-Abd. 

Ummmm my recollection at the time was that the SOD is GOD ITK FUNDAMENTALISTS, were claiming (before he actually kicked a ball and the praise from Brighton was high praise) that he was not and never was an SC signing but a signing made by others at the club.

Bearing in mind how short a time it took for SC to bench and then bin him, this would make sense.

But of course twisted the other way it's another stick to beat SC with.

[DaveF]

On 26/08/2018 at 07:34, joe jordans teeth said:

The thing is the Johnson fans are like a cult a bit like the young loonies who chant corbyns name,any bit of negative criticism and they are like animals 

You’re obsessed with bringing your political views onto this football forum... Bizarre...