downendcity Posted October 26, 2018 Report Share Posted October 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said: Overbearing, evasive. Come on out and debate with me in detail. My points are carefully considered and you cannot answer them. FFP is now your constant cover line for Sir Steve"s timid approach to Football Club ownership. Thankyou and goodnight. When you say timid, I presume you mean financially timid. Much as though it is all too easy to regard Robbored as an argumentative whatsit, on ffp he is right. SLcomes from a financial services background where compliance rules are not to be messed with and a breach has massive consequences. As a result, I cannot imagine SL wanting to jeopardise the club when it comes to footballs financial rules In the good old days a wealthy owner could enable a club to buy players as long as he/she had the personal funds to finance the purchases and wages. FFp put paid to that approach by limiting the amount an owner can put directly into a club based on the club's losses. My opinion is that a little while back, SL realised that having thrown £50m at the club, ithad not worked, leaving us in league 1 and with too many journeyman pros on big wages that we could not shift out of the club. He also foresaw the implications of the introduction of financial rules. The consequence of that was the long term sustainability plan we now have have. However, FFP does allow an owner to invest in the club's infrastructure, and I think this is unlimited (?) and 2 main areas allowed are in the stadium and the academy. The amount SL has put into both is substantial and not indicative of financial timidity. The stadium redevelopment means that the club is generating more revenue from the stadium, both on match days but crucially on the there 6 days of the week. Those additional revenues go into the club's coffers so boost the money that can be used on the playing side. The academy has already proved it's value with Bobby Reid and Joe Bryan becoming important first team players and we also have Kelly and now O'Leay breaking into the first team and it sounds like there are other academy players coming through and getting close to the first team. This will save the club a lot of money on transfer fees, but, as with Joe and Bobby , will generate substantial fee income when academy graduates are sold and that can be re-invested back into the playing squad. The stadium redevelopment cast, what, £45m? The academy has already costs fair few bob and the new academy will cost a few million more. Some fans will suggest that SL's should have put this money into the team as it would easily have enabled us to afford the quality midfielder we need, but the problem is that the financial rules would not let him put that £40-50m idirectly into the playing squad, even if he anted to. What he has done is use his money within the rules but in a way that will benefit the playing side, but that benefit will not be as immediate as fans would like it to be i.e. spending £15-20m on a Bradley Dack in the summer. FFP is not cover for SL it is the reality of championship football today, and before someone points out that Bournemouth breached those rules and look where they are, that was under the old rules, when promotion put a club beyond the reach of the EFL being able to impose any penalty. That's all changed now, so that clubs have to produce projected accounts in March of the third year of the three year cycle. If a club is then found to breach the limits the EFL can invoke a penalty in the same season, i.e. before the end of the season. It means that a team gaining promotion by breaching the financial rules can be subjected got a points penalty which prevents them being promoted. The problem we have is that we are trying to compete with much bigger clubs financially and clubs enjoying massive parachute payments. However, when it comes to buying big players on big money to make the difference, you only have to look at Villa, the massive amounts they have spent ( fees and wages) for top players at this level, and then look at where they are compared to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 27, 2018 Report Share Posted October 27, 2018 2 hours ago, JonDolman said: Realistic midfield signing would be Vaulks of Rotherham or Browne of Preston. Both contracts running out end of the season. Maybe cut price deal in January, or get Hayden on loan and bring one of those 2 in the summer on a free. Browne is a good player, goals in him, but not a luxury player. That’s the type we want, not a no10 who 1) won’t do the hard yards or 2) means a complete system change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted October 27, 2018 Report Share Posted October 27, 2018 13 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Browne is a good player, goals in him, but not a luxury player. That’s the type we want, not a no10 who 1) won’t do the hard yards or 2) means a complete system change. Been an admirer of Browne for years but he’d be another Brownhill type for me. I love Brownhill but not sure can get away with two in a 442 if that makes sense. In reality, hard to find great fits for 442 anymore. Not many steals for a ready made champ player in a 442. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadman Posted October 27, 2018 Report Share Posted October 27, 2018 the sheffwed bloke who took the piss out of us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southvillekiddy Posted October 27, 2018 Report Share Posted October 27, 2018 15 hours ago, downendcity said: When you say timid, I presume you mean financially timid. Well mate. If you read my exchanges with Robbored from last night you will see that I think the financial aspect is only a part of my concerns about our ownership, which is characterised by excessive control. If we accept that Bristol City FC is operating in a footballing backwater, then the club has to do far, far more than say a Club in the Midlands, London or Lancashire to be a success, especially in recruiting the right people to carry through a serious attempt on Premiership football. We are a galaxy away from doing that IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxo Jr. Posted October 27, 2018 Report Share Posted October 27, 2018 On 26/10/2018 at 12:51, southvillekiddy said: I'm not looking to be excused thankyou very much. Bloody cheek, young 'un! I'm asking my fellow City-mad lunatics if they can genuinely see us attracting the quality of midfielders and players in other positions to take us to the promised land in the next 10 to 15 years with our present club set-up. This is SLs stated aim! In 15 years time SL will be 81 and LJ will be 53, "following the strategy". What a laugh! A top 6 city should have a top 6 football team. Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, the current Top 5 do not waste their time on mediocrity in any part of their operation. And please don't anyone say at this point "We cannot compare ourselves to those Clubs" as Bournemouth are currently in 6th place.! Ye Gods, with a maximum capacity of 11,360 at Dean Court! You mean the same Bournemouth that still have a large amount of their promotion squad intact and have invested little in new players? I'm pretty sure they are exactly the team we are trying to emulate. The Championship sides that slowly build a strong squad/club tend to have a way longer shelf life in the Premier League than the ones who buy a bunch of experienced players that know how to get promoted. Look at Cardiff, then look at Bournemouth. (Wolves are an extreme exception) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiderEyed Posted October 27, 2018 Report Share Posted October 27, 2018 16 minutes ago, Luxo Jr. said: You mean the same Bournemouth that still have a large amount of their promotion squad intact and have invested little in new players? I'm pretty sure they are exactly the team we are trying to emulate. The Championship sides that slowly build a strong squad/club tend to have a way longer shelf life in the Premier League than the ones who buy a bunch of experienced players that know how to get promoted. Look at Cardiff, then look at Bournemouth. (Wolves are an extreme exception) The same Bournemouth that broke FFP rules and are funded by a Russian billionaire? Think you need a better example mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxo Jr. Posted October 27, 2018 Report Share Posted October 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said: The same Bournemouth that broke FFP rules and are funded by a Russian billionaire? Think you need a better example mate. Ok. Swansea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southvillekiddy Posted October 27, 2018 Report Share Posted October 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Luxo Jr. said: You mean the same Bournemouth that still have a large amount of their promotion squad intact and have invested little in new players? I'm pretty sure they are exactly the team we are trying to emulate. The Championship sides that slowly build a strong squad/club tend to have a way longer shelf life in the Premier League than the ones who buy a bunch of experienced players that know how to get promoted. Look at Cardiff, then look at Bournemouth. (Wolves are an extreme exception) Missing the point mate. The main one being that the 6th largest city in England should have Premiership football. We can can be exceptional too if the Club has the guts to appoint someone like Santos with all his contacts and back him fully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 27, 2018 Report Share Posted October 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said: Missing the point mate. The main one being that the 6th largest city in England should have Premiership football. We can can be exceptional too if the Club has the guts to appoint someone like Santos with all his contacts and back him fully. Still labouring your tired old point SK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southvillekiddy Posted October 27, 2018 Report Share Posted October 27, 2018 16 minutes ago, Robbored said: Still labouring your tired old point SK? Hmm still being a supercilious smart Alec mate, sniping in a kind of Ian Carmichael stuck-in-the-mud in the mud mode. What I'm saying is a truth which is eternal and you know it. Maybe you have settled for Championship football thanks to that generous Sir Steve but I haven't. Glue, glue, glue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireSection Posted October 27, 2018 Report Share Posted October 27, 2018 On 25/10/2018 at 21:04, Maltshoveller said: Give Walsh a run of games Too easy! In all seriousness; what more does he have to do in order to start, it's crazy when you contemplate how poorly Pack, Odowda and to a lesser degree, Brownhill have been playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 27, 2018 Report Share Posted October 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, YorkshireSection said: Too easy! In all seriousness; what more does he have to do in order to start, it's crazy when you contemplate how poorly Pack, Odowda and to a lesser degree, Brownhill have been playing. Actually think our formation is doing Pack especially no favours. Make a midfield 3 of Pack, Brownhill, Walsh and in time you'll see a better Pack- and more importantly a better team I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted October 27, 2018 Report Share Posted October 27, 2018 24 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Actually think our formation is doing Pack especially no favours. Make a midfield 3 of Pack, Brownhill, Walsh and in time you'll see a better Pack- and more importantly a better team I think. Breaking it down the options he has had this season do not provide constant support in front of Pack and the football. Bryan who provided constant support has left and that flexibility has not been replaced. I could be smug and suggest that I may also have claimed sometime ago the busy and mobile Walsh in front of Pack could be an improvement and make City a better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 27, 2018 Report Share Posted October 27, 2018 56 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Breaking it down the options he has had this season do not provide constant support in front of Pack and the football. Bryan who provided constant support has left and that flexibility has not been replaced. I could be smug and suggest that I may also have claimed sometime ago the busy and mobile Walsh in front of Pack could be an improvement and make City a better team. Agreed on that. Pack the deepest of the midfield 3, with Brownhill and Walsh in front? Or Pack and Brownhill back with Walsh higher? Either way, see it as a good blueprint moving forward- could be pretty fluid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 12 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Agreed on that. Pack the deepest of the midfield 3, with Brownhill and Walsh in front? Or Pack and Brownhill back with Walsh higher? Either way, see it as a good blueprint moving forward- could be pretty fluid! The former. Regarding fluid … How would your fluid include Famara? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, Cowshed said: The former. Regarding fluid … How would your fluid include Famara? Ultimately, given I some thought- don't see how it could include him tbh. Still if we were to play him, it maybe a bit more rigid in the final 3rd, but behind more fluid- that midfield 3 with Diedhiou up front as part of a 3 with Eliasson and O'Dowda- though to me that's a Backup plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 On 26/10/2018 at 18:17, Selred said: The biggest stand out is games played. One dominated the Championship as a starter. The other is a Korey Smith injury away from being on loan at league one. Even on the little we'd seen of Walsh up to yesterday it was clear he was a very talented player and far too good to go on loan to L1. On yesterday's performance he can not only be our most accomplished all round midfield player but potentially our most valuable and the one most likely to have an extended career in the top league. Only time will tell if he can perform to that level regularly - consistency is key - but hopefully the stellar performance we saw yesterday will finally convince LJ he is ready to be given a run to prove he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 28, 2018 Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 15 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Actually think our formation is doing Pack especially no favours. Make a midfield 3 of Pack, Brownhill, Walsh and in time you'll see a better Pack- and more importantly a better team I think. 14 hours ago, Cowshed said: Breaking it down the options he has had this season do not provide constant support in front of Pack and the football. Bryan who provided constant support has left and that flexibility has not been replaced. I could be smug and suggest that I may also have claimed sometime ago the busy and mobile Walsh in front of Pack could be an improvement and make City a better team. 13 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Agreed on that. Pack the deepest of the midfield 3, with Brownhill and Walsh in front? Or Pack and Brownhill back with Walsh higher? Either way, see it as a good blueprint moving forward- could be pretty fluid! 1 hour ago, Cowshed said: The former. Regarding fluid … How would your fluid include Famara? Nice conversation you two. Re the bit in bold....if we played Pack as the 1 in a 4141 (second half yesterday and after 30 minutes v Hull on Wednesday), and that allowed the midfield 4 to play much closer to Diedhiou, could you see that working? My observation yesterday was that instead of our starting midfield 4 (in a 4411) being 20-30 yards from Famara, in the second half, it was more 5-10-15 yards, meaning, sharp passes into Diedhiou (who’s back to goal control yesterday was good imho), enabling runners off of him, or give and go’s. That second half set up reminded me much more of the successful period last season when Reid was up top and we had Brownhill and Paterson getting quick and the important thing, short, passes into Reid. I thought Pack was really good second half, just passing to Brownhill and Walsh, and letting them drive us into the final third, whilst he kept us up the pitch, and protecting easy passes into Afobe, in front of Webster and Kalas. It also allowed Hunt and Dasilva to push forward. If you ignore Webster and Kalas (who in fact both brought the ball forward too), our front 8 were the most condensed I’ve seen us this season....the distance from Pack > through the midfield > Diedhiou was 20 yards (ish), a lot of the second half. It looked a bit like this: Hunt. Pack. Dasilva Eliasson. Brownhill. Walsh. Paterson Diedhiou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 On 28/10/2018 at 08:59, Mr Popodopolous said: Ultimately, given I some thought- don't see how it could include him tbh. Still if we were to play him, it maybe a bit more rigid in the final 3rd, but behind more fluid- that midfield 3 with Diedhiou up front as part of a 3 with Eliasson and O'Dowda- though to me that's a Backup plan. On 28/10/2018 at 10:10, Davefevs said: Nice conversation you two. Re the bit in bold....if we played Pack as the 1 in a 4141 (second half yesterday and after 30 minutes v Hull on Wednesday), and that allowed the midfield 4 to play much closer to Diedhiou, could you see that working? My observation yesterday was that instead of our starting midfield 4 (in a 4411) being 20-30 yards from Famara, in the second half, it was more 5-10-15 yards, meaning, sharp passes into Diedhiou (who’s back to goal control yesterday was good imho), enabling runners off of him, or give and go’s. That second half set up reminded me much more of the successful period last season when Reid was up top and we had Brownhill and Paterson getting quick and the important thing, short, passes into Reid. I thought Pack was really good second half, just passing to Brownhill and Walsh, and letting them drive us into the final third, whilst he kept us up the pitch, and protecting easy passes into Afobe, in front of Webster and Kalas. It also allowed Hunt and Dasilva to push forward. If you ignore Webster and Kalas (who in fact both brought the ball forward too), our front 8 were the most condensed I’ve seen us this season....the distance from Pack > through the midfield > Diedhiou was 20 yards (ish), a lot of the second half. It looked a bit like this: Hunt. Pack. Dasilva Eliasson. Brownhill. Walsh. Paterson Diedhiou A bald headed clever boke at Man City says formations are merely telephone numbers so a 4-3-3 I have previously mentioned can be that 4-1-4-1, or more 4-5-1 with players pushed up wide and Diedhiou staying high stretching the pitch, Pack sits in as a pivot, with two narrower players (Brownhill and Walsh) in front of him and its a five man midfield = Numerical superiority, and possible greater flexibility. It all depends on how you view Diedhiou. I sit in the same camp as MrP there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnefcok Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 On 27/10/2018 at 11:04, JoeAman08 said: Been an admirer of Browne for years but he’d be another Brownhill type for me. I love Brownhill but not sure can get away with two in a 442 if that makes sense. In reality, hard to find great fits for 442 anymore. Not many steals for a ready made champ player in a 442. Browne was never great for us in a 4-4-2 really, lacks the technical ability. He had begun to stall under Grayson but when Neil came in he loved what he saw and played him as a no.10, stating that he didn't really have the technical ability on the ball to play deeper and receive the ball off defenders and dictate like Pearson and Johnson do, but his running and physical presence as the 10 would work and that assessment has certainly been proven right. The combination of Pearson and Johnson dictating from deep and Browne pressing in front of them is excellent, and Neil may a mistake at the start of the season trying to shuffle in a luxury player (IMO) like Harrop. It just didn't work and we've reverted back to that usual 3 now. He lacks a creative/technical eye for a pass in that role which can hold us back a bit at times as we don't really have an advanced playmaker, but the running and pressing he does from that advanced position is hugely impressive and vital in our system, and he now carries a big goal threat in and around the box too, mainly with headers or snap-shots / belters. Will probably go for big money eventually, and be replaced by someone inexperienced who will take 4-5 years to develop again, thus costing us any realistic shot at the top 6. It's the PNE/Hemmings way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 7 hours ago, pnefcok said: Browne was never great for us in a 4-4-2 really, lacks the technical ability. He had begun to stall under Grayson but when Neil came in he loved what he saw and played him as a no.10, stating that he didn't really have the technical ability on the ball to play deeper and receive the ball off defenders and dictate like Pearson and Johnson do, but his running and physical presence as the 10 would work and that assessment has certainly been proven right. The combination of Pearson and Johnson dictating from deep and Browne pressing in front of them is excellent, and Neil may a mistake at the start of the season trying to shuffle in a luxury player (IMO) like Harrop. It just didn't work and we've reverted back to that usual 3 now. He lacks a creative/technical eye for a pass in that role which can hold us back a bit at times as we don't really have an advanced playmaker, but the running and pressing he does from that advanced position is hugely impressive and vital in our system, and he now carries a big goal threat in and around the box too, mainly with headers or snap-shots / belters. Will probably go for big money eventually, and be replaced by someone inexperienced who will take 4-5 years to develop again, thus costing us any realistic shot at the top 6. It's the PNE/Hemmings way. It isn’t just the Preston way. It is the reality of a lot of clubs. We are a bit luckier we have someone who will cover the full amount of losses of ffp limit if need be but even we are trying to be sustainable in terms of money. Back to Browne, he sounds a bit like Bobby Reid. Reid always had a habit of finding space in the box when he was a central midfielder. We didn’t use a traditional ten so he was pushed up front in a 442. At first he’d drop deep quite a bit and be more of a playmaker and arrive later in the box but by seasons end he could do that and play on the shoulder of central defenders. Anyway, always liked Browne when I have seen him play. For us though, the challenge is fitting midfielders in a pair. Pack and Brownhill go through a lot of work in there. I am sure they can be improved on but hard to find a good fit at a good price. We have a top young midfielder here though in Walsh. He would struggle in a two but from what I have seen(and our fans got a taste for last Saturday) he would be a stellar midfielder in the Pearson/Bannan mould. He is a smaller player like those but does make up for it with technical ability and does not mind getting stuck in. He probably isn’t quite as good as either in their best attributes. Well from what I have seen anyway. He likes a tackle and will get stuck in but probably not the awareness defensively of Pearson yet(may not be as good ever but can get better). His best qualities are on the ball however and really reminds me of Bannan. Bannan a lot more experience but reckon Walsh can be a better defensive version of him in a few years. Trouble is LJ and his 442. LJ is ok but is stubborn in his use of that formation even though we will change mid game and look better for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 Need a battler in the midfield first and we’ve needed one for 10 years now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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