Johnson out

[TheCulturalBomb]

LJ is just walking the tightrope now, and it's going to snap sooner or later. He has had the time, he has had the budget and he has talked the talk. But he doesn't know how to do the walk. 

[real_bristol]

On 10/11/2018 at 15:36, Redmycolour said:

ONLY ONE JOHNSON HAPPY CLAPPER 

Top banter. I’m pretty sure there’s at least two of us

[real_bristol]

6 hours ago, Swede said:

A different perspective.

LJ is going nowhere for the time being. To get rid will mean the whole coaching policy and the structure behind it going too and that's not going to happen.

This would also mean a slap in the face for the major shareholder who has given LJ a lot of backing. In fact I would go on to suggest that in the future, the next head coach will be Jamie McAllister. 

IMO we have no grit in the team as the player recruitment takes this into account and doesn't seemingly see it as a critical factor when making signings, which I think is wrong. That's why players like Baker, Taylor and Watkins have to start. They are the players who can dig in. I was astounded to find Watkins wasn't even in the squad but Eisa was.

Other teams have worked this out and its no surprise that we are struggling to get on the front foot.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but in all honesty we have sold three cornerstones of the team and with it 30+ goals.

One can argue that Webster is a defensive improvement on Flint.

DaSilva/ Kelly will be better than Bryan and Weimann should turn out equally as good as Reid. What you can't guarantee is the goals.

There is more pressure this season on others getting the goals.

So, with losing those players, which LJ has no control over, it is no surprise we are struggling to make an impact. Obviously he thought those signings would have filled the void but in order to kick on this season we not only needed to replace those important players but we also needed to improve still further.

We are heading towards mid table obscurity IF LJ can turn the tide.

The interesting point is that SL expects a year on year improvement so that's a top ten or maybe flirting with the play offs for this season. Currently LJ is falling short and if that continues then I can honestly see the change made.

I was extremely disappointed that we didn't compete over the majority of the match and I can understand to a certain extent (but not all) the outcry against him. He will always be a "marmite" player/coach because of his father which deeply devides opinion (unfairly in my opinion).

I am just trying to put a more considered view to the debate.

I agree with most of this because it’s  realistic. 

Personally, I don’t think Taylor and Baker are good enough at this level, in fact I think it was Baker who couldn’t clear the ball which resulted in Preston’s goal. Taylor is a grafter however and deserves to start because we don’t have much more to offer. Marley is decent.

[Major Isewater]

11 hours ago, Redandwhitescarf said:

I'm in the LJ camp(just) but yesterday showed his disrespect when he put a player on (Matty Taylor) because we have a song about him. Not because he believed he could turn the game. I know some fans think buying Matty was a big joke on Rovers and now it appears the manager thinks likewise. I'm a fan of both LJ&MT but LJ showed a total lack of respect to a player who has been performing well for us 

He didn't put him on solely because he had a song about him.

He was trying to explain how important it is to have the crowd behind you and also to say that players need to make their mark with the supporters.

Incidentally , Diedhou has a song about him but was subbed off. 

 

[Major Isewater]

7 hours ago, Swede said:

A different perspective.

LJ is going nowhere for the time being. To get rid will mean the whole coaching policy and the structure behind it going too ,

No it won't, that is the main reason for having the set up and that's not going to happen.

yet

This would also mean a slap in the face for the major shareholder who has given LJ a lot of backing.

Agreed but League 1 with the Gas would be more embarrassing for him.

In fact I would go on to suggest that in the future, the next head coach will be Jamie McAllister. 

Quite possibly , known quantity. 

IMO we have no grit in the team as the player recruitment takes this into account and doesn't seemingly see it as a critical factor when making signings, which I think is wrong. That's why players like Baker ! Taylor and Watkins have to start. They are the players who can dig in. I was astounded to find Watkins wasn't even in the squad but Eisa was.

Other teams have worked this out and its no surprise that we are struggling to get on the front foot.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but in all honesty we have sold three cornerstones of the team and with it 30+ goals.

And replaced them with Championship experienced players.

One can argue that Webster is a defensive improvement on Flint.

DaSilva/ Kelly will be better than Bryan and Weimann should turn out equally as good as Reid. What you can't guarantee is the goals.

There is more pressure this season on others getting the goals.

So, with losing those players, which LJ has no control over, it is no surprise we are struggling to make an impact. Obviously he thought those signings would have filled the void but in order to kick on this season we not only needed to replace those important players but we also needed to improve still further.

We are heading towards mid table obscurity IF LJ can turn the tide.

and League 1 if he can't.

The interesting point is that SL expects a year on year improvement so that's a top ten or maybe flirting with the play offs for this season. Currently LJ is falling short and if that continues then I can honestly see the change made.

I think LJ is a very likeable , honest , hardworking bloke who loves the club . I'm not sure that that is enough.

I was extremely disappointed that we didn't compete over the majority of the match and I can understand to a certain extent (but not all) the outcry against him. He will always be a "marmite" player/coach because of his father which deeply devides opinion (unfairly in my opinion).

I am just trying to put a more considered view to the debate.

 

[WarksRobin]

We’ve got decent players. The problem imo is that we don’t have the players which fit the “identity” LJ wants, and he doesn’t have the imagination/experience to find an “identity” which suits the available players. 

I fear he is going back into tinker-mode to experiment and try to find something that works and in the meantime we will slip down the table again. 

[daored]

7 hours ago, Yipikiaye said:

I don't believe now is the time to be getting rid of Lee . It would be ludicrous to sack a manager when we're 13th in the table , not only that who do you replace him with ? If Steve wanted shot of him it would of been end of last season after the last bad run . The season still has a long way to go with January window too be nice to see us mid table at the end of the season 

When you look at Johnson’s form, for me you have to take  into consideration our form since the turn of the calendar year. I don’t think any other manager  would still be in a role taking that into consideration. 

Do you have belief that Johnson can go out and recruit the right players in January ?

[Honiton Tony]

I think he will take us down and be told he is the best bet to get us back up......unbelievable

[Davefevs]

8 hours ago, Yipikiaye said:

I don't believe now is the time to be getting rid of Lee . It would be ludicrous to sack a manager when we're 13th in the table , not only that who do you replace him with ? If Steve wanted shot of him it would of been end of last season after the last bad run . The season still has a long way to go with January window too be nice to see us mid table at the end of the season 

Do you think there will be much investment in January? I don’t think there will be but we’ll see I guess. 

[spudski]

7 hours ago, Swede said:

A different perspective.

LJ is going nowhere for the time being. To get rid will mean the whole coaching policy and the structure behind it going too and that's not going to happen.

This would also mean a slap in the face for the major shareholder who has given LJ a lot of backing. In fact I would go on to suggest that in the future, the next head coach will be Jamie McAllister. 

IMO we have no grit in the team as the player recruitment takes this into account and doesn't seemingly see it as a critical factor when making signings, which I think is wrong. That's why players like Baker, Taylor and Watkins have to start. They are the players who can dig in. I was astounded to find Watkins wasn't even in the squad but Eisa was.

Other teams have worked this out and its no surprise that we are struggling to get on the front foot.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but in all honesty we have sold three cornerstones of the team and with it 30+ goals.

One can argue that Webster is a defensive improvement on Flint.

DaSilva/ Kelly will be better than Bryan and Weimann should turn out equally as good as Reid. What you can't guarantee is the goals.

There is more pressure this season on others getting the goals.

So, with losing those players, which LJ has no control over, it is no surprise we are struggling to make an impact. Obviously he thought those signings would have filled the void but in order to kick on this season we not only needed to replace those important players but we also needed to improve still further.

We are heading towards mid table obscurity IF LJ can turn the tide.

The interesting point is that SL expects a year on year improvement so that's a top ten or maybe flirting with the play offs for this season. Currently LJ is falling short and if that continues then I can honestly see the change made.

I was extremely disappointed that we didn't compete over the majority of the match and I can understand to a certain extent (but not all) the outcry against him. He will always be a "marmite" player/coach because of his father which deeply devides opinion (unfairly in my opinion).

I am just trying to put a more considered view to the debate.

I agree with what you say.

It's not just LJ that would go...but backroom staff as well.

We have built over a period of years, a team of coach's that all work together well, willing to work with the philosophy, and have invested in certain types of players for the future.

It's a long term plan.

The only way I see LJ ever being removed, is if we are in serious trouble in the relegation zone. And then imo, the person brought in would only be temporary...to save us.

The way we work now...we would have a clear objective of who we as a Club would want to be the next manager. It might come from within, or we might be courting someone for the future.

It's how we work now.

We've gone from being reactive and throwing money around short term...to being a Club built on a long term project....with stability being the main objective.

Imo, much of our fan base are expecting too much too quickly.

We aren't even an established Championship side yet.

Most other Clubs see us as the WBA of the League 1/Championship. We've spent more seasons in league 1 in recent history.

We are literally still playing catch up.

Fans can moan all they like, but they forget how poorly run this club has been for many generations. We survived on our owners generosity that got us a taste occasionally but always short term.

Our whole philosophy has changed. And it had too. But still....we are playing catch up.

We have been run by businessmen...not football men. That imo...is why we have floundered below what should be expected.

From Grass roots to the top...it's been below what should be expected of a Professional football Club with such potential.

You go up north and see such places like Burnley...football through and through. The Clubs set up properly...run properly. From Grass roots up. It's the same for many smaller professional clubs.

We simply haven't been run professionally by knowledgeable footballing people.

Our owner has learnt on the job so to speak. He's now learnt, and almost been forced to go a certain way...because we don't have parachute payments and are governed by FFP.

To become established...we need stability.

We will flirt with relegation and play offs...but we still need to develop more. And that needs structure and stability for it to work.

Unfortunately the majority of fans won't have the patience for this. They want instant play off form.

We have no right to that in this league.

You've only got to look at other teams in this league to see most are fairing the same as us. Good and bad results.

Fans have banged on about how well Preston and Brentford have done compared to us over the past couple seasons...both sit below us.

Others like Villa...with all their talent...pretty much same boat as us.

Whilst losing is never nice...we sit exactly mid table. We are bang average in this league. Some like myself expect that.

I'm neither pro or anti LJ. But for now...I'm pro stability, and agree with the ethos of the Club, which imo, isn't Promotion, but stability.

I think they are looking for a gradual build over more years.

Just my opinion....sure it will ruffle a few feathers....and people will put forward arguments that a new coach would fit.

However...how many managers do we know, that would come in to a Club and work with the rest of the staff, without wanting to bring in their own?

I really do think we as a Club are looking for stability throughout the Club...all working as one. Over the past, all we've had is people come in and fall out.

It creates unrest and turmoil within.

We need to keep building our infrastructure. And make sure everyone is fighting for the same thing.

I'd rather get behind a Club with an owner and head coach that obviously love the Club, and are looking to do the right thing long term, even with faults and errors along the way, than go back to what we had before...just chancing it.

 

[Floatn Over]

12 minutes ago, WarksRobin said:

We’ve got decent players. The problem imo is that we don’t have the players which fit the “identity” LJ wants, and he doesn’t have the imagination/experience to find an “identity” which suits the available players. 

I fear he is going back into tinker-mode to experiment and try to find something that works and in the meantime we will slip down the table again. 

Starting a new week and after watching MOTD2 last night I think you are right with this.

We have some good players and some average players but it's been said before, possibly earlier in this thread, that we are over complicating a simple game and trying to exceed capabilities, also with our injury history, are we overtraining ?  We are not MC or Chelsea or Bournemouth or Wolves etc but I am worried now that constant chop and change will be persisted with regardless.

I think I have reached the end of my patience this weekend (sincerely hope I am wrong and that I will be driving back from a Wembley play off final listening to LJ on TalkSport explaining how we beat Villa) but I cannot get out of my mind that performance, statements about better to be playing away from the gate *, making a sub because we have a song for a player (yes I know that statement was perhaps not intended to be as it came across), a grafter like MW not even making the bench, players placed out of position.

* Other than SO'D, from Fred Ford to Cotts I cannot think of a manager who would say that *

Finally, Saturday was crying out for a leader or leaders (poor Marlon, he's trying to do this and everything which is having an impact on his game) but at the end of last season a statement was made by LJ that we needed to recruit leaders but did we sign one ? No.  So either we did not go after any, we did but they would not sign or we did but they were not going to be yes men so we walked away.

 

[Dolman Block B]

8 hours ago, Yipikiaye said:

I don't believe now is the time to be getting rid of Lee . It would be ludicrous to sack a manager when we're 13th in the table , not only that who do you replace him with ? If Steve wanted shot of him it would of been end of last season after the last bad run . The season still has a long way to go with January window too be nice to see us mid table at the end of the season 

Thats why it the CORRECT time to sack Lee Johnson.

If gives a new coach some sort footing to work on.

Bottom 4 would be so much harder work.

Also a prospective incoming top man would find this much more appealing.

 

 

[cidered abroad]

16 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree with what you say.

It's not just LJ that would go...but backroom staff as well.

We have built over a period of years, a team of coach's that all work together well, willing to work with the philosophy, and have invested in certain types of players for the future.

It's a long term plan.

The only way I see LJ ever being removed, is if we are in serious trouble in the relegation zone. And then imo, the person brought in would only be temporary...to save us.

The way we work now...we would have a clear objective of who we as a Club would want to be the next manager. It might come from within, or we might be courting someone for the future.

It's how we work now.

We've gone from being reactive and throwing money around short term...to being a Club built on a long term project....with stability being the main objective.

Imo, much of our fan base are expecting too much too quickly.

We aren't even an established Championship side yet.

Most other Clubs see us as the WBA of the League 1/Championship. We've spent more seasons in league 1 in recent history.

We are literally still playing catch up.

Fans can moan all they like, but they forget how poorly run this club has been for many generations. We survived on our owners generosity that got us a taste occasionally but always short term.

Our whole philosophy has changed. And it had too. But still....we are playing catch up.

We have been run by businessmen...not football men. That imo...is why we have floundered below what should be expected.

From Grass roots to the top...it's been below what should be expected of a Professional football Club with such potential.

You go up north and see such places like Burnley...football through and through. The Clubs set up properly...run properly. From Grass roots up. It's the same for many smaller professional clubs.

We simply haven't been run professionally by knowledgeable footballing people.

Our owner has learnt on the job so to speak. He's now learnt, and almost been forced to go a certain way...because we don't have parachute payments and are governed by FFP.

To become established...we need stability.

We will flirt with relegation and play offs...but we still need to develop more. And that needs structure and stability for it to work.

Unfortunately the majority of fans won't have the patience for this. They want instant play off form.

We have no right to that in this league.

You've only got to look at other teams in this league to see most are fairing the same as us. Good and bad results.

Fans have banged on about how well Preston and Brentford have done compared to us over the past couple seasons...both sit below us.

Others like Villa...with all their talent...pretty much same boat as us.

Whilst losing is never nice...we sit exactly mid table. We are bang average in this league. Some like myself expect that.

I'm neither pro or anti LJ. But for now...I'm pro stability, and agree with the ethos of the Club, which imo, isn't Promotion, but stability.

I think they are looking for a gradual build over more years.

Just my opinion....sure it will ruffle a few feathers....and people will put forward arguments that a new coach would fit.

However...how many managers do we know, that would come in to a Club and work with the rest of the staff, without wanting to bring in their own?

I really do think we as a Club are looking for stability throughout the Club...all working as one. Over the past, all we've had is people come in and fall out.

It creates unrest and turmoil within.

We need to keep building our infrastructure. And make sure everyone is fighting for the same thing.

I'd rather get behind a Club with an owner and head coach that obviously love the Club, and are looking to do the right thing long term, even with faults and errors along the way, than go back to what we had before...just chancing it.

 

Of course we all want stability and it's always been clear to me in the past that there wasn't a "Plan" in place. Just knee jerk reaction. I met a guy at a preseason under 23 game, a scout for a Premier team, but a lifelong City fan, who said exactly the same.

We can all put up with mediocre performances, with young players who will make mistakes but learn and improve. We are now trying to "do it the right way". Similar to what Busby did at Man U in the 1940/50's? Find good youngsters who will bond together.

We have a new stadium which will bring extra revenue from non football. We have an Academy full of some very talented youngsters who give me a lot of hope for the future.

Everything appears to be in place except for one glaringly obvious failing. He is not the only coach in the world who would " buy in to our club philosophy". So why do some, including Lansdown?, believe he is the only one who can oversee and lead?

To change the club from what we were to what we need to do isn't easy. There will be ups and downs. But Johnson, IMO, is not the person to lead us in an upward trajectory. If this latest bad spell isn't cured quickly, we will be back in League One where FFP means 60% of income in wages, not £39 million losses over three years. Crippling to progression.

He has to go now.

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

I agree with what you say.

It's not just LJ that would go...but backroom staff as well.

We have built over a period of years, a team of coach's that all work together well, willing to work with the philosophy, and have invested in certain types of players for the future.

It's a long term plan.

The only way I see LJ ever being removed, is if we are in serious trouble in the relegation zone. And then imo, the person brought in would only be temporary...to save us.

The way we work now...we would have a clear objective of who we as a Club would want to be the next manager. It might come from within, or we might be courting someone for the future.

It's how we work now.

We've gone from being reactive and throwing money around short term...to being a Club built on a long term project....with stability being the main objective.

Imo, much of our fan base are expecting too much too quickly.

We aren't even an established Championship side yet.

Most other Clubs see us as the WBA of the League 1/Championship. We've spent more seasons in league 1 in recent history.

We are literally still playing catch up.

Fans can moan all they like, but they forget how poorly run this club has been for many generations. We survived on our owners generosity that got us a taste occasionally but always short term.

Our whole philosophy has changed. And it had too. But still....we are playing catch up.

We have been run by businessmen...not football men. That imo...is why we have floundered below what should be expected.

From Grass roots to the top...it's been below what should be expected of a Professional football Club with such potential.

You go up north and see such places like Burnley...football through and through. The Clubs set up properly...run properly. From Grass roots up. It's the same for many smaller professional clubs.

We simply haven't been run professionally by knowledgeable footballing people.

Amen brother . 

Our owner has learnt on the job so to speak. He's now learnt, and almost been forced to go a certain way...because we don't have parachute payments and are governed by FFP.

To become established...we need stability.

We will flirt with relegation and play offs...but we still need to develop more. And that needs structure and stability for it to work.

Unfortunately the majority of fans won't have the patience for this. They want instant play off form.

We have no right to that in this league.

You've only got to look at other teams in this league to see most are fairing the same as us. Good and bad results.

Fans have banged on about how well Preston and Brentford have done compared to us over the past couple seasons...both sit below us.

Others like Villa...with all their talent...pretty much same boat as us.

Whilst losing is never nice...we sit exactly mid table. We are bang average in this league. Some like myself expect that.

I'm neither pro or anti LJ. But for now...I'm pro stability, and agree with the ethos of the Club, which imo, isn't Promotion, but stability.

I think they are looking for a gradual build over more years.

Just my opinion....sure it will ruffle a few feathers....and people will put forward arguments that a new coach would fit.

However...how many managers do we know, that would come in to a Club and work with the rest of the staff, without wanting to bring in their own?

I really do think we as a Club are looking for stability throughout the Club...all working as one. Over the past, all we've had is people come in and fall out.

It creates unrest and turmoil within.

We need to keep building our infrastructure. And make sure everyone is fighting for the same thing.

I'd rather get behind a Club with an owner and head coach that obviously love the Club, and are looking to do the right thing long term, even with faults and errors along the way, than go back to what we had before...just chancing it.

 

A good post Spudski although I don't totally agree with all your points . 

The whole ethos of the club being stability means that new coaches can slot into the club's system not the club completely changing for a new manager .

There are hundreds of qualified , competent coaches who would jump at the chance of coming here. 

If Ferrari had a super F1 car which was fantastic except the engine wasn't good enough would they not try to improve the engine ? 

It's not play off form that most demand but to avoid relegation form . 

We have now lost four on the bounce , uncomfortable feelings of deja vu persist with LJ.

We are not scoring goals and are making schoolboy errors in defence , why ? Who's to blame ? 

[Olé]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Imo, much of our fan base are expecting too much too quickly.

..

Unfortunately the majority of fans won't have the patience for this. They want instant play off form.

..

Whilst losing is never nice...we sit exactly mid table. We are bang average in this league. Some like myself expect that.

No issue with your overall theme of stability and the absence of obvious replacements for LJ that would maintain the strategy, but in respect of the latest clamour for change, I don't think it's a) fair this season to blame fans expectation levels, or to b) excuse performances on the strength of us being in mid table:

a) Yes last season the expectations ratcheted up and for some the eventual finishing position was hard to take, even though it represented progress. I don't believe that there are many - or any - fans whose expectations were particularly high this season. Certainly none I have spoken to or read on OTIB. It was SL (and it's a statement he must now regret) at the end of last season who exhibited the boldest expectations for this season that I've seen or heard from anyone. Conversely a lot of fans, myself included, feared that we would struggle with the new players and the way we finished last season. So I'm not sure we really expected that much to begin with.

b) The league position is really of no consequence at this point either. No one was really inferring back in September that a play-off challenge was on when our position flirted with that, and nor is anyone that I can see or hear now, settling in comfortably for a win-some / lose-some mid table season. The form of the team and manner of its performances are far more useful barometers. Only 1 of the last 9 teams we played is above us in the league, and yet we've lost 5 of those games and won just 2. We have come up against 4 of the poorest teams in the division (3 at home) in the past month and scraped just 1 win. And those performances are among the worst of the LJ era.

As I said yesterday, however badly we were doing under other managers who went on to lose their job, the one thing you could always count on was basic attempts to rally for a goal late on at Ashton Gate. For the most part that has disappeared altogether under Johnson. The past two games have been tactically appalling, bereft of any organisation or plan to cause our opponents problems. As you yourself highlighted yesterday on crosses, no one is quite sure what Johnson is now trying to have the team doing, the players lack belief, and allied to LJ desperately cycling through players once again, he is managing to fall short even of low expectations.

Happy to be mid-table, happy to lose some games, but to be completely unprepared and ineffective against a succession of teams that have otherwise been among the divisions worst, is enough to quite reasonably reflect on the managers position. It's not like this is surprise new territory for the him either. He has rowed us into these waters several times before and on each occasion we've floundered about not knowing quite what to do to get back on our way. Enough is enough. This isn't about our expectations or our league position, it's about being so clearly out of your depth as a manager that you visibly suffer the same problems year after year after year.

Incidentally, on the subject of stability, it's not good enough to decry the absence of an alternative to LJ that would fit within the club's strategy, simply because internal options would be Dean Holden, or Jamie McAllister, none of whom have had any serious experience beyond their current remit. If we're so committed to this strategy we should be hiring people at all levels who can step up, not using it as a ridiculous excuse for why LJ could never be replaced. I was always told to hire people who can do your job. It's the only way to up-skill everyone. We pay lip service to philosophy and structure and then recruit a cosy club with no succession plan. It's bollocks.

[glen humphries]

2 hours ago, daored said:

When you look at Johnson’s form, for me you have to take  into consideration our form since the turn of the calendar year. I don’t think any other manager  would still be in a role taking that into consideration. 

Do you have belief that Johnson can go out and recruit the right players in January ?

If you look at his record it’s got to be no

[daored]

10 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

If you look at his record it’s got to be no

Completely agree, every club goes through good and bad form in general. The concern is with Lee it is a regular occurance of 10 odd games, and it’s happened every season he’s been here and also at Barnsley. 

 

 

[Undy English]

29 minutes ago, daored said:

Completely agree, every club goes through good and bad form in general. The concern is with Lee it is a regular occurance of 10 odd games, and it’s happened every season he’s been here and also at Barnsley. 

 

 

Well said, every season now we have this very poor run around the winter/Jan period that put's us low table facing a relegation battle. We then inevitably have some success in the past few games that restores supporter's faith. It's a cycle that has been repeated for 2 seasons now, looking at a possible third.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, Undy English said:

Well said, every season now we have this very poor run around the winter/Jan period that put's us low table facing a relegation battle. We then inevitably have some success in the past few games that restores supporter's faith. It's a cycle that has been repeated for 2 seasons now, looking at a possible third.

I assume you mean ‘ last few games ‘

uhmmmmmmmm

Last season ....where were the success in the last few games.........??

Finished off last season with FOUR wins in TWENTY ONE games after jan 1st !! and the finale was  a surrender and pathetic capitulation to Sheffield United in a performance , only surpassed by Saturdays ... now there’s a thing

we survived the season before last by the skin of our teeth in the penultimate game btw

Lets at least talk truth and open eyes

 

Weve been in relegation form since January 1st

 

A late survival from relegation is looking about as successful as it may get as it appears  right now 

[ZiderEyed]

8 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I assume you mean ‘ last few games ‘

uhmmmmmmmm

Last season ....where were the success in the last few games.........??

Finished off last season with FOUR wins after jan 1st and the finale was  a surrender and pathetic capitulation to Sheffield United in a performance , only surpassed by Saturdays ... now there’s a thing

we survived the season before last by the skin of our teeth in the penultimate game btw

Lets at least talk truth and open eyes

 

A late survival from relegation is looking about as successful as it may get as it appears  right now 

26% win rate in 2018. Lets not forget that.

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

26% win rate in 2018. Lets not forget that.

ONE decent spell when  tinkerman had no options in selection or tactics

The stories of the closed dressing room post Preston and Wilbraham and senior pros pulling the dressing room together to to grab some wins to save  us the previous season 

Staggering that people still believe 

Staggering

[ZiderEyed]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

ONE decent spell when  tinkerman had no options in selection or tactics

The stories of the closed dressing room post Preston and Wilbraham and senior pros pulling the dressing room together to to grab some wins to save  us the previous season 

Staggering that people still believe 

Staggering

Not to mention the bust up with Joe Bryan last January.

And the Tomlin situation.

Does that sound like a leader of men to you?

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

Not to mention the bust up with Joe Bryan last January.

And the Tomlin situation.

Does that sound like a leader of men to you?

Best We not mention Pisano or O Dowda at moment I guess...

An open question .....

Which senior pro has spoken well or hit it off with our Head Coach......

[ZiderEyed]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Best We not mention Pisano or O Dowda at moment I guess...

An open question .....

Which senior pro has spoken well or hit it off with our Head Coach......

Forgot about them.

Genuinely can't think of one too. Says a lot really doesn't it?

[Coupon]

1 hour ago, ZiderEyed said:

26% win rate in 2018. Lets not forget that.

I'm not sure if this was meant to be detrimental or not ZE, so no offence intended if I've got your post wrong. You got me thinking "how good or bad is a 26% win rate"

A 26% win rate equates to 36 points (35.88 to be exact) over a season of 46 games, this would mean that another 14 games need to be drawn to reach the 50 point marker (but this doesn't always result in safety from relegation), however this is based on the assumption that the 26% win rate is carried through to the end of the season.

I'm not that good at maths but even I can work this one out, this is definitely relegation form.

[spudski]

4 hours ago, Olé said:

No issue with your overall theme of stability and the absence of obvious replacements for LJ that would maintain the strategy, but in respect of the latest clamour for change, I don't think it's a) fair this season to blame fans expectation levels, or to b) excuse performances on the strength of us being in mid table:

a) Yes last season the expectations ratcheted up and for some the eventual finishing position was hard to take, even though it represented progress. I don't believe that there are many - or any - fans whose expectations were particularly high this season. Certainly none I have spoken to or read on OTIB. It was SL (and it's a statement he must now regret) at the end of last season who exhibited the boldest expectations for this season that I've seen or heard from anyone. Conversely a lot of fans, myself included, feared that we would struggle with the new players and the way we finished last season. So I'm not sure we really expected that much to begin with.

b) The league position is really of no consequence at this point either. No one was really inferring back in September that a play-off challenge was on when our position flirted with that, and nor is anyone that I can see or hear now, settling in comfortably for a win-some / lose-some mid table season. The form of the team and manner of its performances are far more useful barometers. Only 1 of the last 9 teams we played is above us in the league, and yet we've lost 5 of those games and won just 2. We have come up against 4 of the poorest teams in the division (3 at home) in the past month and scraped just 1 win. And those performances are among the worst of the LJ era.

As I said yesterday, however badly we were doing under other managers who went on to lose their job, the one thing you could always count on was basic attempts to rally for a goal late on at Ashton Gate. For the most part that has disappeared altogether under Johnson. The past two games have been tactically appalling, bereft of any organisation or plan to cause our opponents problems. As you yourself highlighted yesterday on crosses, no one is quite sure what Johnson is now trying to have the team doing, the players lack belief, and allied to LJ desperately cycling through players once again, he is managing to fall short even of low expectations.

Happy to be mid-table, happy to lose some games, but to be completely unprepared and ineffective against a succession of teams that have otherwise been among the divisions worst, is enough to quite reasonably reflect on the managers position. It's not like this is surprise new territory for the him either. He has rowed us into these waters several times before and on each occasion we've floundered about not knowing quite what to do to get back on our way. Enough is enough. This isn't about our expectations or our league position, it's about being so clearly out of your depth as a manager that you visibly suffer the same problems year after year after year.

Incidentally, on the subject of stability, it's not good enough to decry the absence of an alternative to LJ that would fit within the club's strategy, simply because internal options would be Dean Holden, or Jamie McAllister, none of whom have had any serious experience beyond their current remit. If we're so committed to this strategy we should be hiring people at all levels who can step up, not using it as a ridiculous excuse for why LJ could never be replaced. I was always told to hire people who can do your job. It's the only way to up-skill everyone. We pay lip service to philosophy and structure and then recruit a cosy club with no succession plan. It's bollocks.

Hi mate...and in response to others who quoted me

I totally agree with you about our style of play and philosophy. It has lost it's identity. Last season you could see what we were trying to do...this season, it seems bits of everything.

LJ has confessed in the past that he's over coached and tinkered...and I think he maybe falling into that category again.

However...aside from results and how we play, I think it will take a lot to remove LJ, as long as he doesn't get us relegated.

As I said earlier...it's about us becoming stable. And I think we are still in the early stages of that.

And I believe that's the one thing that SL wants at this Club.

After the Burton game last season, SL was having talks with the other Directors about whether or not to keep LJ...and they brought him in to tell him very openly that they were talking about letting him go.

The point is, SL trusts LJ, Lansdown said. “The aim is to build and develop, and the relationship I have with Lee, the knowledge I have of his career so far, his philosophy, I want to continue. So I didn’t want to give up on what we know is so good. And I think more owners, more boards, should do that and take a longer-term view. But, unfortunately, if you get relegated, of course you get castigated. So that’s the pressure.”

It's not just LJ...it's Aston as well...SL believes in him too.

I believe the biggest words spoken by SL in recent months were these...

“We have a club here at the moment where everyone is focused on the right thing, 100% behind what we’re doing. And I’ve never had that feeling before.

Yet it is not easy to convince every supporter that the club is on the right track, especially when results start to fall away and the critics find their voice.''

SL loves the fact he can trust people he's working with, and that EVERYONE is working in the same direction. And it's that 'feeling'....that feeling of being stable that turns him on.

 

We have all our teams from the Academy to the first team being coached pretty much the same way.

The Clubs 'Identity'. I understand from titbits being said, that it's changed from last season. That we have recruited different types of players to fit in with this new style of play.

For many of us, it looks a bit of a mess. One week one thing...the next, something else. So are we in transgression again...or just lost our way?

Now this is the point...is the Clubs way of playing football  LJ's idea...or something that was agreed as a way forward as to what Bristol City would do as a Club throughout all it's teams and recruit along those lines?

To have a Club identity in the way it plays, you need a DoF and Coach's throughout the club all knowing how we are going to play, and thus coach and recruit to ingrain that identity.

You bring in a Head Coach or Manager to maintain and motivate that philosophy. If it doesn't work...you bring in someone else...so it's seemless.

We've never really had a Club philosophy or identity.

I believe it's what we are trying to establish and it's still early doors.

In trying to Establish that identity...you need everyone working from the same hymn sheet.

That's why we have LJ, Ashton and all the other Coach's and backroom staff working towards establishing that and making it ingrained and as a Club...stable.

Once that is established, then I feel, if it's not working out with the first team with improvements every season, the SL will look to kick on and bring in a new head coach who would work within our philosophy, with the same staff, and try to kick us on to the next level.

I personally don't think we are either established, perfectly stable or have found our identity yet...it's still early doors, and thing s are still being tried and tested. For instance looking to Europe...I think that may have been brushed under the carpet a bit and we are now looking closer to home.

We are still in transition it seems...but getting there.

If your Club doesn’t have a clear coaching philosophy then you should do your utmost to change that. You cannot expect every player to progress the same way if all your coaches are following a different plan or even worse no plan at all. The club’s philosophy should be the first thing that is mentioned when a coach or player are brought into the team. If a club has a philosophy and stands by it, then the coaches will benefit from this.

Having a clear philosophy at your club, will make sure that there is a clear pathway for the players starting from the youngest right through to the seniors at the club. Often coaches are not given a clear idea of what’s expected when they join a club, especially at grassroots level. This leaves many coaches unsure of how to gradually progress the players each year, resulting in the players development suffering. Without guidance your coaches cannot achieve consistent results, meaning you won’t consistently produce top players at your club.

If you want to attract the best coaches for your club then you will need to have a strong philosophy in place. Which is what we are trying to put in place now. If you were to look at the clubs who have a certain structure in place you will see that they tend to attract the best players and coaches. Others start to notice and your club will start to develop a reputation for the philosophy that they use, thus attracting others who share the same ideas.

Once a Clubs playing philosophy is ingrained, it becomes the blue print for every coach at the Club to follow. It is our vision, the values and principles that form the base of our philosophy, they will decide what we do, why we do it and how we decide on any coach. Many coaches especially at grassroots level focus on short-term goals instead of long-term goals. All coaches should have a long-term plan that you should stick to throughout. This is what we want as a Club. This may alter slightly as we progress because you never stop learning as a coach or club, so you must always be ready to add to your philosophy as methods never stay the same and every player learns differently.

We are still developing a system that will connect all our new ideas from the training ground to match day. A style of play is your teams/Clubs identity, Do you like to build possession through the thirds? or do you prefer to attack teams quickly with fast flowing football?. It could easily be a mixture of the two but you need to have a clear idea of how want to play the game. We are still developing this identity imo....and it's a bit trial and error.

It is important that we take every failure or defeat as a lesson in itself. We've failed in the past, Sl has probably learnt a lot more from the failures in his time then the few successes. What you choose to do after each failure will define us as a Club, this is why it is very important to have a philosophy in place.
If we continue with no structure, no ingrained philosophy, we are doomed to fail again. . As a Club,  this is a dated way of thinking that will not help, we need to be better then that and stick with the  philosophy we are trying to build. Instead of going away from our principles for a quick fix, and uproot everything, think how we can you stick to our philosophy but do it better. I'm sure they are working hard to keep progressing and motivating.

In conclusion...imo, the time will come for LJ to move on, but unless we are going down, the stability and Club identity is more important to build on. Once that is stable and ingrained, then sure...kick on and try to achieve promotion. It's the Clubs end goal...but imo, it's still too early, as this Club was so far behind professionally across the board.

[Undy English]

14 hours ago, Swede said:

A different perspective.

LJ is going nowhere for the time being. To get rid will mean the whole coaching policy and the structure behind it going too and that's not going to happen.

Sadly this poster has nailed it.

I'm no happy clapper of Johnson In activist. But as supporters we have to face facts. Lansdown is not going to sack him. We've been through far worse spells and the guy has kept his job. I think it would take weekly hammerings of 4 nil and a dressing room rebellion to oust him now.

For the time being, that's not going to happen so, dare I say it, all this negative chat is not going to help proceedings. 

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, Undy English said:

Sadly this poster has nailed it.

I'm no happy clapper of Johnson In activist. But as supporters we have to face facts. Lansdown is not going to sack him. We've been through far worse spells and the guy has kept his job. I think it would take weekly hammerings of 4 nil and a dressing room rebellion to oust him now.

For the time being, that's not going to happen so, dare I say it, all this negative chat is not going to help proceedings. 

You’d have thought that most fans would understand that sacking the manager isn’t about one man losing his job. It means the entire coaching team being sacked and that kind of upheaval leads to the club becoming destabilised  again - one thing SL wants to avoid.

[grove park city]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Do you think there will be much investment in January? I don’t think there will be but we’ll see I guess. 

No one of any real quality will be brought in the end game is to balance the ridiculous financial losses we haven't got the players to move on and attract mega bids to really affect team recruitment, and reading between the lines it appears S.L has had it with throwing his cash down the Lee Johnson wishing well waiting for something deep down he knows full well won't happen with Johnson floundering about with his scatter gun line up's and basket case tactics .

The cold hard facts are as so many have said City are a bang average team led by a manager/coach who can't change his policy of treating every team City play like Manchester City so its backs to the wall and caution  , can't adapt his thinking to play a different style altering the players and tactics as a game progresses ,has no motivation to inspire just seems to confuse players as he has no set plan to show what sort of team or individual he wants to put in place.

There is  a way forward and its not by letting Lee Johnson   loose to squander more cash in January .    

[ZiderEyed]

3 hours ago, Coupon said:

I'm not sure if this was meant to be detrimental or not ZE, so no offence intended if I've got your post wrong. You got me thinking "how good or bad is a 26% win rate"

A 26% win rate equates to 36 points (35.88 to be exact) over a season of 46 games, this would mean that another 14 games need to be drawn to reach the 50 point marker (but this doesn't always result in safety from relegation), however this is based on the assumption that the 26% win rate is carried through to the end of the season.

I'm not that good at maths but even I can work this one out, this is definitely relegation form.

It is meant exactly as you've read it mate. Truly terrifying stat.

One aside though, the 26% does also include cup games since Jan 1st (Man City games, Plymouth home this season).