BrizzleRed Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 22 minutes ago, Loon plage said: I think this is one of the worrying things. Compared to the likes of Brentford, who are a selling club, our recruitment has been absolute litter in the main and has pissed millions against the wall, never to be recovered. We don't know who is accountable for that, although I would hope that the head coach gives Ashton a hit list, rather than be presented with a fait acompli. Exactly LP and Brentford are a great example of the type. Sadly we’re miles away from competing with them. They seem to have everything in place to make it work, while we give the impression of playing at it, but without the correct personnel in place to make it work. It’ll be interesting to see if the success continues after losing their manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrizzleRed Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 19 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Brentford are competing whilst almost breaking even (£0.9m loss in 16/17). That is sone effort. A brilliant effort considering all the London clubs they have to compete with to get all these promising players. Given their small crowds, it makes you wonder how we manage to post such huge losses in comparison and I really question if we’ll ever be good enough at this sustainability game to ever compete with clubs like them. Hopefully we don’t find ourselves slipping down the leagues as well, because as we all know, with the ‘fine margins’ in football, the Championship in particular can be very unforgiving if you get things wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 19 minutes ago, Badger08 said: 2 things with this. I don't see Brentford (currently below us) playing in the Premier League or ever playing in the Premier League. Secondly, I find it strange that supports get so annoyed and say things like "pissed millions up against the wall" as if the money being spent is theirs!! If SL has paid over the odds for a player, thats his issue. He's stated a BILLION times that he will never leave Bristol City in a financially unstable position, so what does it matter? Well the 'pissed millions up the wall' comment does matter. Might not be our money but if we screw up 40% of our FFP allowance, on a bunch of donkeys, then the team and the club suffer. If Steve sanctioned my signing at 3 million and paid me 10k a week that would have a significant effect on the rest of the squad we could sign, that's why it matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, Badger08 said: 2 things with this. I don't see Brentford (currently below us) playing in the Premier League or ever playing in the Premier League. Secondly, I find it strange that supports get so annoyed and say things like "pissed millions up against the wall" as if the money being spent is theirs!! If SL has paid over the odds for a player, thats his issue. He's stated a BILLION times that he will never leave Bristol City in a financially unstable position, so what does it matter? It becomes LJ or MA’s issue when they’ve convinced him that said player isn’t as good as they thought he was and they want to replace him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 The OP is not saying anything new, of course. But the striking thing for me is that all five of those names (Tinnion, Millen, Lansdown jnr, Johnson and McAllister) have something else in common: not a single one of them has genuine leadership qualities. Listening to Millen co-commentating on Wednesday's game brought it all back as he nervously, stuttered his way through the game. Lovely bloke, great coach. Manager? No chance. And that's the worry, that SL isn't learning and is making the same mistakes he was 10 years ago. Though, I would question whether they are 'mistakes' and it is in fact the case that he just prefers to work with people that he can retain full control over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Badger08 said: But that's not going to happen, is it. Stupid argument. Ok let's walk you through this. We have a certain amount we can spend to remain within FFP. If we spend that on shite we cannot buy better, and the shite will have added nothing to the team and lost money on their resale. Not tricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 Just now, Badger08 said: Absolutley nothing to walk me through. 1. We aren't going to exceed FFP Regulations 2. You aren't going to be signed for £3m on a 10k a week contract. And you said I had a stupid argument! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Alessandro said: Going round in twisted circles with @NickJ - there's a surprise. I put him on ignore years ago it’s not worth it. Problem is every time you quote him I get to see more of his ramblings. So please stop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, Badger08 said: Buying a player that isn't as good as you though he was isn't a Bristol City thing. That makes it ok then? It happens all over the leagues!! But we (well MA and LJ) go around telling everyone how hi-tec our database and recruitment process is though. They tell us we are really good at it. 2nd highest league position and staying within the FFP regulations say we are doing ok. What do you mean by - “second highest league position”? Everyone bar Birmingham, that’s 22 other clubs in our division are currently within FFP. That’s not a very good argument. And some of those other 22 clubs are much healthier inside of FFP than us. And I think SL wants more than “ok” for his £150m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 41 minutes ago, Badger08 said: 2 things with this. I don't see Brentford (currently below us) playing in the Premier League or ever playing in the Premier League. Secondly, I find it strange that supports get so annoyed and say things like "pissed millions up against the wall" as if the money being spent is theirs!! If SL has paid over the odds for a player, thats his issue. He's stated a BILLION times that he will never leave Bristol City in a financially unstable position, so what does it matter? Pretty odd response in all honesty Badger. The fact that we have pissed millions up against the wall has contributed to the club's losses and is therefore a major factor in why we aren't apparently able to compete financially. SL has also stated (although not a billion times) that he wants the club eventually to be self sustainable. He clearly therefore cannot appreciate seeing millions lost on players, and we could incidentally be financially stable being a big fish in league 1 for 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, Badger08 said: What are you on about? We've just made a shed load of money from the Byran, Flint and Reid sale. We aren't going to exceed FFP, so your argument is completely and utterly hypothetical, isn't it. Where are the millions he has "pissed up the wall?" You're always going to get players that make a loss and ones that make a profit. Name me one club that doesn't "piss money up the wall"? Thats football, swings and roundabouts. One thing I can assure you, we will not exceed FFP, so what is the problem? Apart from having another needless pop at the owner of the club that has given us so much. Its pathetic. Simple, If we waste money on poor players we are therefore under utilising some of our FFP allowance that could make us a better team. My argument is not about breaching FFP but utilising the funds available in the best possible manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 37 minutes ago, RumRed said: Well the 'pissed millions up the wall' comment does matter. Might not be our money but if we screw up 40% of our FFP allowance, on a bunch of donkeys, then the team and the club suffer. If Steve sanctioned my signing at 3 million and paid me 10k a week that would have a significant effect on the rest of the squad we could sign, that's why it matters. Well said - should have read this before I bothered to respond ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, Badger08 said: What are you on about? We've just made a shed load of money from the Byran, Flint and Reid sale. We aren't going to exceed FFP, so your argument is completely and utterly hypothetical, isn't it. Where are the millions he has "pissed up the wall?" You're always going to get players that make a loss and ones that make a profit. Name me one club that doesn't "piss money up the wall"? Thats football, swings and roundabouts. One thing I can assure you, we will not exceed FFP, so what is the problem? Apart from having another needless pop at the owner of the club that has given us so much. Its pathetic. All is well then. We can go on a proper spending spree in January and ignore the £24M losses that were announced a few weeks ago. Phew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, glynriley said: All is well then. We can go on a proper sending spree in January and ignore the £24M losses that were announced a few weeks ago. Phew. @Badger08 you forgot we spent £10m+ of that, plus their agent fees, signing on fees, tribunal fee yet to be confirmed for Adelakun. Loan fees for Kalas and Dasilva. This on top of an ever increasing wage bill. We have a bloated squad for the usage LJ gets out of them. If I were SL I would be critiquing the effectiveness of the way my COO and Head Coach are spending his money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Alessandro said: Well as you were not on the selection committee, interview process or otherwise, nor knew the criteria for the job - are you in a position to pass judgement on the decision of the board members to appoint JL? No - you are judging, from the outside with little or no facts or knowledge. So you don't actually know if nepotism took place? Did you see, meet, hear the other candidates that where unduly disregarded as SL favoured JL? So JL was a good appointment then? Just as you say SL has an obligation to the fans - I could say you, as an employer have an obligation to society. Both equally intangible theories. Either way I don't disagree he is a custodian, but that doesn't mean he has made the wrong choice promoted a trusted ally which makes a long term statement about his families commitment to BCFC. Yes I am judging from the outside. It's an informed judgment, not a guess. I fail to see how anybody with 4 years of relatively low level work experience was qualified to be MD of a Championship club. I'm making an educated guess that there might just have been somebody better. Yes of course any employer has a responsibility to society. But my little family business is not comparable with the responsibility which the owner of a football club has to the wider community. Nice to see the personal comments started in your post 101 have been discontinued. 20 minutes ago, REDOXO said: I put him on ignore years ago it’s not worth it. Problem is every time you quote him I get to see more of his ramblings. So please stop! Your unprovoked bitch rather than an intelligent contribution to the debate says far more about you than it does me @REDOXO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrizzleRed Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 20 minutes ago, Badger08 said: What are you on about? We've just made a shed load of money from the Byran, Flint and Reid sale. We aren't going to exceed FFP, 22 minutes ago, Badger08 said: What are you on about? We've just made a shed load of money from the Byran, Flint and Reid sale. We aren't going to exceed FFP, so your argument is completely and utterly hypothetical, isn't it. Where are the millions he has "pissed up the wall?" You're always going to get players that make a loss and ones that make a profit. Name me one club that doesn't "piss money up the wall"? Thats football, swings and roundabouts. One thing I can assure you, we will not exceed FFP, so what is the problem? Apart from having another needless pop at the owner of the club that has given us so much. Its pathetic. so your argument is completely and utterly hypothetical, isn't it. Where are the millions he has "pissed up the wall?" You're always going to get players that make a loss and ones that make a profit. Name me one club that doesn't "piss money up the wall"? Thats football, swings and roundabouts. One thing I can assure you, we will not exceed FFP, so what is the problem? Apart from having another needless pop at the owner of the club that has given us so much. Its pathetic. I admire your confidence about not needing to worry about ffp Badger, but not quite sure why that is and don’t share that view. Don’t forget we won’t see all the money for the player sales this summer in one go, as there will be installments. We can’t keep losing 25 million a year and expect to cover it with player sales. Looking at our performance levels this season, with due respect, I think it needs a very strong pair of rose tints to not think a very large quantity of cash HAS been pissed up the wall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said: I admire your confidence about not needing to worry about ffp Badger, but not quite sure why that is and don’t share that view. Don’t forget we won’t see all the money for the player sales this summer in one go, as there will be installments. We can’t keep losing 25 million a year and expect to cover it with player sales. Looking at our performance levels this season, with due respect, I think it needs a very strong pair of rose tints to not think a very large quantity of cash HAS been pissed up the wall! ....and it is the “cozy club” attitude of some on here re spending (above our means) that they directly criticise on the playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, NickJ said: Yes I am judging from the outside. It's an informed judgment, not a guess. I fail to see how anybody with 4 years of relatively low level work experience was qualified to be MD of a Championship club. I'm making an educated guess that there might just have been somebody better. Again, as i've said and you admit, speculation on your part. They may have been someone better, but without knowing the criteria, how can we say? JL may have been the best fit for the criteria the club were looking for - he is after all a Bristol lad, City fan and qualified in economics and management. He's not just appointed his play-boy run away spoilt son, who doesn't even like football, as a "project" for him. Yes of course any employer has a responsibility to society. But my little family business is not comparable with the responsibility which the owner of a football club has to the wider community. So you agree then that you have some obligation, however ones opinion decides to grade it vs. SL's responsibility, to consider how appointing your son is also nepotistic from a society point of view. Which was what my original point was. After all, SL's obligation to the fans is, whether we like it or not, only a moral one too. Nice to see the personal comments started in your post 101 have been discontinued. I think somehow calling someone a hypocrite, isn't on the same level of personal comment as "idiotic" and a "bell-end" Surely, even you can see that. So please don't play the patronising moral card, you've forfeited that with your childish replies i'm afraid. Your unprovoked bitch rather than an intelligent contribution to the debate says far more about you than it does me @REDOXO Um....oh forget it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl&Toby Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 15 hours ago, Robbored said: SL freely admits that he’s not a football expert and that’s why he employs people with the knowledge of the game to manage the club but like virtually all owners his appointments frequently don’t work out. In his tenure he must have seen at least four managers come and go and realised that they’re not always quite as they appear at interview and so this time he employs a manager who a) knows the football club. b) is trustworthy and can be relied upon to work with his strategy. SLs skills are his business acumen and he wants the club to run along business lines (about time to) and employs a CEO to oversee the running of the club but no major decisions are made without his approval. That’s why he employs people with the knowledge of the game. Who are these people? I’m not seeing them. Particularly if you look at recruitment and the impact that has had - particularly in SL’s attempts to make us stable and sustainable. Without his deep pockets and without selling players we make a loss. And live in fear of FFP penalties. Or perhaps that’s the unspoken pillar. Make myself indispensably the single point of failure..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobintheRed Red Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 7 hours ago, Robbored said: You just don’t get what “stability and sustainability “ means do you.............. Yes but also understand what stagnant means aswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 Typical otib thread, pick some facts (not all correct), ignore other facts, draw a not necessarily correct conclusion and let the fighting commence, soon turning into personal insults and abuse. Love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 5 hours ago, BrizzleRed said: Let’s be honest, in the real world this sustainability and on the pitch success is never going to actually happen though. If the club’s policy is going to be selling our most valuable players each close season, this club will be in continual transition and is never going to be the finished article. I think we’ll probably be lucky to even tread water, let alone challenge for a promotion spot. Some fans may be ok with that, but I’m pretty sure many will get very bored and disillusioned when they realise the club doesn’t really share their ambition to see City competing at a higher level. I think most football fans are sustained by hope that there could be better days around the corner, but if you take the hope away, what are you left with? Still we can always sit back and enjoy the football being produced by this year’s crop of rising stars!!! Doing a great job aren’t we?!!! Whoah there cowboy, 99% of clubs do what we are doing it is the norm rather than the exception. We have tried to replace those sold with more quality , at least with Championship experience, this is an advance on previous years. It is not like we are being asset stripped . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl&Toby Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 40 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: Whoah there cowboy, 99% of clubs do what we are doing it is the norm rather than the exception. We have tried to replace those sold with more quality , at least with Championship experience, this is an advance on previous years. It is not like we are being asset stripped . We were asset stripped years ago. Look at the balance sheet for BCFC. Nothing there that’s really tangible. Players that’s about it. And as we know they’ll be sold - like three were - to create the illusion of financial stability. From memory there’s a value for some freeholds but the main asset was stripped out long ago..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrizzleRed Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 50 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: Whoah there cowboy, 99% of clubs do what we are doing it is the norm rather than the exception. We have tried to replace those sold with more quality , at least with Championship experience, this is an advance on previous years. It is not like we are being asset stripped . So you think 99% of clubs are running up debts as big as ours do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 The unknown in this is the quality or otherwise of the acadamy players coming through. We have a large number of players out on loan at lower league / non-league clubs who are getting experience, and some are getting decent reviews. My view is that LJ and Ashton have now realised that if you sign a player he has to be either proven at this level, or had a very good season at the leagues below, if you go for a foreign player that raises the gamble level higher. Next season we need a Tammy or Bobby type player no question, where that player comes from is as yet unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 Jon Lansdown’s role at the club is a complete joke - bit like Jon Lansdown really, as I doubt he would get a job in the hard nosed private sector anyway. He would be out on his ass in 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoxton casual Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 On 29/11/2018 at 17:16, Robbored said: What!? “Calls SLs judgement into question”. Jeeez............ If you were a billionaire owner of any business you wouldn’t make a space for your own son? Of course you bloody would......bugger all to do with judgement......it’s called looking after your family. I have absolutely no problem with that at all.. What about managers picking their sons to play in their teams week in week out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, hoxton casual said: What about managers picking their sons to play in their teams week in week out? What about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 On 29/11/2018 at 16:03, Marina's Rolls Royce said: Lansdown's Job for the Fans: 1)We are still Bristol City 2)We play in an amazing Stadium 3)We have a fantastic training set up and facilities 4) Our youth policy is actually working for the first time ever. 5) Despite losing millions and millions and millions - he still covers the losses and invests in the club I'm completely bewildered why he does it especially when the minute it's not going to the fan's plans or time frame - he and his family get contemptible abuse but please Steve..... Do it again. Point 4. Ever? I thought our youth policy did rather well in the 1970s. I believe there are others that think the same. I'm not sure about the youth policy in the 1900s but I believe the lad Wedlock, 23 caps for England, was born just along the road, as well as another, Joe someone. Think they played for their country together (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 29 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said: Jon Lansdown’s role at the club is a complete joke - bit like Jon Lansdown really, as I doubt he would get a job in the hard nosed private sector anyway. He would be out on his ass in 6 months. Plenty of jobs in the public sector. Strange how people want hard nosed business men, yet complain hard nosed business men are taking the heart and soul out of the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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