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RedDave

Leeds Emergency Press Conference 5pm

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Bielsa appears to me as very diligent in his pursuit of success. I would suspect that spying on training sessions has bee high on the agenda for many clubs and its up to the club to do as much as it can to keep their training in seclusion.

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3 hours ago, Woodsy said:

 

Apparently he's spied on every single team he's played against this year

That means us

I've changed my mind now

Dirty Leeds, dock them 100 points and relegated to Yorkshire Div 4 😂

 

Who's our spy then? Everyone saying it goes on everywhere and at every club. I reckon ours is this dodgy fella. No idea who he is... 

20190116_204859.jpg

 

Edited by Septic Peg
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9 minutes ago, Med/MadHatter said:

 If all this info gathering started just from the start of this season then it is even more impressive, gotta hold my hands up to this  spying team they certainly have done their job! Goodness knows how the Leeds players learn all the info needed in time for game day!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/marcelo-bielsa-full-transcript-3000-13866685

Especially

Quote

 

*AT THIS POINT BIELSA LOADED UP HIS POWERPOINT*

Of each opponent we watched all of the games form the 2017-18 season. The 51 games of Derby County. We watched them. The analysis of each game takes four hours of work.

Why did we do that? Because we think this is professional behaviour. We try not to be ignorant of the competition we play in.

Tell me any game, point to any game.

*19 SAYS A JOURNALIST*

This is the analysis of that game. Both starting teams. ALl the data of the game, taking into the account the tactical scheme of the opponent.

Would you like to see another game?

*NUMBER 12, MAN UNITED VS DERBY SAYS ANOTHER*

I’m trying to convince you what I said is true. This is the same analysis. We watch the players in the 51 games, those who are still playing for Derby County.

The other thing we do is point out the chances to score, the half chances to score and which team dominates every five minutes. That’s why it takes four hours to analyse each game. This is not very useful.

It doesn’t put you in better conditions to win a game. But the way to respect the way football receives you is to make the effort to know the players and the teams.

I can’t speak English, but I can speak about the 24 teams of the Championship.

 
0_Leeds-United-v-Blackburn-Rovers-Sky-Be

Kemar Roofe has starred this season (Image: PA Wire)

The only goal of this is to see what were the positions of the players still in Derby from last year.

We also do video analysis where we register the goals, chances, and that’s why it takes four hours to analyse the game. It’s a process, a way to get to know the opponent.

This document allows us to know if one player has missed some games, if another has played or missed games. We see for example, he played against us then not anymore and we can express all these parameters with this graphic. I feel ashamed to have to tell you all this.

Let’s talk about the analysis that Derby played this season.

They played 31 games. 49% they used a 4-3-3 with No.8 [Mason Mount] on the right. In 22% a 4-3-3- but with the No.8 on the left. Same for the 4-2-1-3, with the No.8 on the right and left.

They also used structures, 3%, 2%, but they’re not significant. Before the game we knew perfectly that they would use these kind of systems.

 
0_Leeds-United-v-Derby-County-Sky-Bet-Ch

Mason Mount shoots against Leeds (Image: George Wood)

These structures gives you fixed priorities and we here have the minutes and the games to understand why Derby changes the system and when. If they change the system to keep a result or to try to score.

We also analyse if the changes are to give an offensive profile to the team or to give defensive strength. And if these changes work or not.

We also gather this kind of information. The structures Derby play against.

Why do we look at this? THe idea is to try to observe what is the most difficult structure for them to face?

I would to explain that all this information, I don’t memorise it. All the information that this report has responds to the questions I have asked myself over the last 30 years.

If you ask me the most difficult system for Derby to play against, I don’t have it in my mind. I can ask and look at the document.

I know I have the answer. We gather all this information from the 31 games.

 
0_Marcelo-Bielsa-Press-Conference-Thorp-

Bielsa and his powerpoint presentation (Image: PA)

Give me a number please. I’m doing this because I consider you don’t believe me. I want to give you factual elements to convince you I’m telling the truth.

Give me a number of I’ll carry one.

 

 

Quote

 

*NUMBER 27 - VS BRISTOL CITY*

This is the tactical analysis. This is the document. Have a look. The analysis of chances, goals, domination. We see in each segment of 5 minutes, who dominates and if they create chances.

Now lets have a look at the video of this game. We know what this player will do when he raises both hands. I know that and so do all the Championship head coaches.

This same game, in order to make our players understand it, we put the name of each player - a player cannot watch more than 10 or 15 minutes. If you don’t help a player with the rival's name, you cannot analyse each player.

*BIELSA THEN SHOWED A VIDEO*

 

As you can see, you have 40 minutes of offensive action from Derby from 31 games. When you see 41 minutes of attack, you see what is the path for the opponent to attack.

And if you do the same thing analysing what were the chances considered by Derby County, you see the defensive weaknesses that they do. Our goal is to sum up in seven or eight minutes to show to the player how Derby attack.

We also make a seven or eight minutes video showing the defensive weaknesses.

The goal of this analysis is to allow our players to have an idea of the opponent in 15 minutes.

We know Derby for 90% of the game use four systems. Here we have a table where we see each of these four systems. We see who plays in the 4-3-3. In red we have the usual starters and the second players are the subs and the third or fourth players play less.

If you want to have synthesis of the 31 games of Derby, we have them in this document.

For the fifth system we use, we also have this document. This is another way to see the same information on this document.

*CHANGES DOCUMENT*

Now let’s look at the tactical analysis. These are the players who play in different positions. These are the four basic systems. We look at each player and I know how many minutes each player plays in each position.

Lets look at each player.

He played 1,772 minutes as a left-back and 70 minutes as a left winger.

This player played as a left offensive midfielder, as a No.8 on the left and on the right, a No.4 on the centre right, as left winger and as winger-midfielder on the right. With this info we know his main positions are the first three.

Another player. Wilson. He plays as a right and left winger and as an offensive midfielder on the left. All the data we can have, we have on a document and we know about his past.

 
0_2018-EFL-Championship-Football-Derby-C

Derby's Harry Wilson (Image: Action Plus via Getty Images)

This document allows us to understand the question we have.

These are the goalkeepers, the right-backs, the left-backs. This is the centre-back on the right and on the left. We do this for each position. We analyse each position.

Let’s look at the wingers.

Against Derby, Alioski played as a left-back. So who could play against him? No.20, 11, 7 and the player who played the least at the end of the day, played the game actually.

So this is No.9, plays on the left and on the right.

*AT THIS POINT ONE JOURNALIST APOLOGISES AND HAS TO LEAVE*

To sum up, these are the players and we have the position which they played. These are the players that were at Derby last year, the left-footed players and it’s easier to just focus on the left.

We gather information for the systems, we analyse to see which player goes in which system. I don’t need to watch a training session to know where they play.

So, why do I go?

Because it’s not forbidden, I didn’t know it would create such a reaction and even though going and watching an opponent is not useful, it allows me to keep my anxiety low.


 

 
They condense it all into 10-15 mins. 
Quote

This same game, in order to make our players understand it, we put the name of each player - a player cannot watch more than 10 or 15 minutes. If you don’t help a player with the rival's name, you cannot analyse each player.

 

@WolfOfWestStreet Bielsa is one of the foremost managers in some respects. Rest assured we analyse and scout opposition but he is pretty elite in certain respects.
Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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12 minutes ago, Med/MadHatter said:

If all this info gathering started just from the start of this season then it is even more impressive, gotta hold my hands up to this  spying team they certainly have done their job! Goodness knows how the Leeds players learn all the info needed in time for game day!

They would have years of info...as do most clubs mate.

Tbh...players get loads of info, some say too much...info overload.

You can see it sometimes when watching. Players often waiting for a reaction or move to happen from info given, rather than being intuitive or reacting.

Also, we as fans will often wonder why a player doesn't choose an obvious pass...it's often because of info and a game plan, to attack in certain areas of weakness that the Coaches see as weakest.

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9 minutes ago, Septic Peg said:

 

Who's our spy then? Everyone saying it goes on everywhere and at every club. I reckon ours is this dodgy fella. No idea who he is... 

20190116_204859.jpg

 

Knew it. Wrong 'un.

 

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7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/marcelo-bielsa-full-transcript-3000-13866685

Especially

*NUMBER 27 - VS BRISTOL CITY*

This is the tactical analysis. This is the document. Have a look. The analysis of chances, goals, domination. We see in each segment of 5 minutes, who dominates and if they create chances.

Now lets have a look at the video of this game. We know what this player will do when he raises both hands. I know that and so do all the Championship head coaches.

This same game, in order to make our players understand it, we put the name of each player - a player cannot watch more than 10 or 15 minutes. If you don’t help a player with the rival's name, you cannot analyse each player.

*BIELSA THEN SHOWED A VIDEO*

 

As you can see, you have 40 minutes of offensive action from Derby from 31 games. When you see 41 minutes of attack, you see what is the path for the opponent to attack.

And if you do the same thing analysing what were the chances considered by Derby County, you see the defensive weaknesses that they do. Our goal is to sum up in seven or eight minutes to show to the player how Derby attack.

We also make a seven or eight minutes video showing the defensive weaknesses.

The goal of this analysis is to allow our players to have an idea of the opponent in 15 minutes.

We know Derby for 90% of the game use four systems. Here we have a table where we see each of these four systems. We see who plays in the 4-3-3. In red we have the usual starters and the second players are the subs and the third or fourth players play less.

If you want to have synthesis of the 31 games of Derby, we have them in this document.

For the fifth system we use, we also have this document. This is another way to see the same information on this document.

*CHANGES DOCUMENT*

Now let’s look at the tactical analysis. These are the players who play in different positions. These are the four basic systems. We look at each player and I know how many minutes each player plays in each position.

Lets look at each player.

He played 1,772 minutes as a left-back and 70 minutes as a left winger.

This player played as a left offensive midfielder, as a No.8 on the left and on the right, a No.4 on the centre right, as left winger and as winger-midfielder on the right. With this info we know his main positions are the first three.

Another player. Wilson. He plays as a right and left winger and as an offensive midfielder on the left. All the data we can have, we have on a document and we know about his past.

 
0_2018-EFL-Championship-Football-Derby-C

Derby's Harry Wilson (Image: Action Plus via Getty Images)

This document allows us to understand the question we have.

These are the goalkeepers, the right-backs, the left-backs. This is the centre-back on the right and on the left. We do this for each position. We analyse each position.

Let’s look at the wingers.

Against Derby, Alioski played as a left-back. So who could play against him? No.20, 11, 7 and the player who played the least at the end of the day, played the game actually.

So this is No.9, plays on the left and on the right.

*AT THIS POINT ONE JOURNALIST APOLOGISES AND HAS TO LEAVE*

To sum up, these are the players and we have the position which they played. These are the players that were at Derby last year, the left-footed players and it’s easier to just focus on the left.

We gather information for the systems, we analyse to see which player goes in which system. I don’t need to watch a training session to know where they play.

So, why do I go?

Because it’s not forbidden, I didn’t know it would create such a reaction and even though going and watching an opponent is not useful, it allows me to keep my anxiety low.

 

Wow! I am honestly stunned! Bielsa must be thinking the English league is backward (if he has been doing this elsewhere), and wondering what the big deal and fuss is all about!

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4 minutes ago, spudski said:

They would have years of info...as do most clubs mate.

Tbh...players get loads of info, some say too much...info overload.

You can see it sometimes when watching. Players often waiting for a reaction or move to happen from info given, rather than being intuitive or reacting.

Also, we as fans will often wonder why a player doesn't choose an obvious pass...it's often because of info and a game plan, to attack in certain areas of weakness that the Coaches see as weakest.

That makes sense, you can see that happening,  my eyes have well and truly been opened today :laugh:

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Mixed feelings. Analysed 51 derby games last season, well done, look at Man Utd from 2 months ago. What would Tottenham have learned, not much is the answer. This is not Derby last year, this is Frank Lampard's derby, and look at the turnover in players they've had. 

The focus on one club, part of me thinks this data was 'prepared' for this presser perhaps, and he's sucking a lot of people in. 

Simply, not buying it. 200 man hours + looking at history. Bollocks. 

I accept a lot of analysis goes in, a lot of quantitative and qualitative data, but I think this is hook line and sinker stuff. If he could replicate that for 20 other clubs tomorrow I'll apologise. Until then, I'm so cynical. 

Edited by 29AR
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2 hours ago, phantom said:

It was mentioned earlier that the Leeds scout had crawled through bushes and was using binoculars hiding in a Bush. This is why Derby took the step to call the police 

That’s not how it was reported on SSN and TalkSport. 

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19 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

As much as it may pain a few (not me particularly) Robbo is right! The worst spy in history. 

It was the fact he was behaving in a suspicious manner with binoculars and wire cutters......

As I posted earlier - all he needed to do was wear a Derby shirt and he’d probably got invited in to watch.

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7 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Mixed feelings. Analysed 51 derby games last season, well done, look at Man Utd from 2 months ago. What would Tottenham have learned, not much is the answer. This is not Derby last year, this is Frank Lampard's derby, and look at the turnover in players they've had. 

The focus on one club, part of me thinks this data was 'prepared' for this presser perhaps, and he's sucking a lot of people in. 

Simply, not buying it. 200 man hours + looking at history. Bollocks. 

I accept a lot of analysis goes in, a lot of quantitative and qualitative data, but I think this is hook line and sinker stuff. If he could replicate that for 20 other clubs tomorrow I'll apologise. Until then, I'm so cynical. 

He quoted a number of Derby games this season and provided examples too though.

Gave analysis on Man Utd v Derby, Derby v us and Chelsea v Derby. Think he's pretty big on this side of the game etc.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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"It is from their foes, not their friends, that cities learn the lesson of building high walls" - Aristophanes.

I don't really care what the agreement between clubs is winning matters, its a competitive game and we need to learn the lessons of Leeds current success and the defend our walls.

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35 minutes ago, Med/MadHatter said:

Now that is what I call preparation, who ever did all that work certainly earned their corn!

A team of 8-10 analysts can do this level of workload to cover 2 games a week.

26 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's not mainly from spying at training- could only gain a proportion of the info.

This is from Bielsa and his team watching every Derby game last season, analysing, key patterns, formations, team shapes- the work. They watched all 51 apparently.

As you say, a shitload of info and technology for each game. Phil Hay's Twitter feed definitely worth a read.

 

I do think he’s trying to deflect away from the spying incident....almost trying to show that they do a shedload of other watching.

15 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Why aren't we doing this kind of shit.

I’d be surprised if we aren’t....to that level?  Who knows.  Depends on size of analyst team focusing on opposition.  Think Luke Werehun has a team of 8.  Some will be looking at possible players, some at opposition, some at our own performances.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

A team of 8-10 analysts can do this level of workload to cover 2 games a week.

I do think he’s trying to deflect away from the spying incident....almost trying to show that they do a shedload of other watching.

I’d be surprised if we aren’t....to that level?  Who knows.  Depends on size of analyst team focusing on opposition.  Think Luke Werehun has a team of 8.  Some will be looking at possible players, some at opposition, some at our own performances.

Tbh there is possible deflection there, can agree on that. Also think he was out of order a tad- clearly greatly hard working but out of order a tad- going into such detail on Derby's tactics publicly. A few commonly used players and commonly used formations would have been enough, no need to go so far in.

Agree also we are likely doing it but not sure that level!

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11 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Mixed feelings. Analysed 51 derby games last season, well done, look at Man Utd from 2 months ago. What would Tottenham have learned, not much is the answer. This is not Derby last year, this is Frank Lampard's derby, and look at the turnover in players they've had. 

The focus on one club, part of me thinks this data was 'prepared' for this presser perhaps, and he's sucking a lot of people in. 

Simply, not buying it. 200 man hours + looking at history. Bollocks. 

I accept a lot of analysis goes in, a lot of quantitative and qualitative data, but I think this is hook line and sinker stuff. If he could replicate that for 20 other clubs tomorrow I'll apologise. Until then, I'm so cynical. 

Yeah agree.  I know my “What We Can Expect” threads can take a couple of hours to write (most take about an hour) and that’s mainly from Transfermarkt website and my own recall (bias!!!).  They are of course an amateur observation, but you’d imagine a professional with the skills and tools would be able to produce “stuff” more efficiently.

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5 hours ago, Super said:

Is strange that he hasn't issued an apology already.

He said in a tv interview after the game vs Derbybthat he took full responsibility and seemed to apologise? 

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18 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It was the fact he was behaving in a suspicious manner with binoculars and wire cutters......

As I posted earlier - all he needed to do was wear a Derby shirt and he’d probably got invited in to watch.

Exactly!

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38 minutes ago, Septic Peg said:

 

Who's our spy then? Everyone saying it goes on everywhere and at every club. I reckon ours is this dodgy fella. No idea who he is... 

20190116_204859.jpg

 

Don't recognise the fella but seem to recall he used to win the football pools a lot...

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Would everyone feel the same if this Leeds employee was caught spying in the game leading up to our game v them? Highly doubtful.

Yes clubs do allow people to watch PARTS of a training session, when doing tactical, set pieces, or when the starting 11 is clearly being shown, only club officials are allowed on site. So when this person did get caught it was a ‘closed’ training session, gaining an unfair advantage? Most certainly.

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Sad that Bielsa had to announce all of this just to get rid of all the media hype created by journalists who don’t understand football.

Bielsa is a genius football manager.

It’s been a joy to watch adults getting upset about it all.

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12 minutes ago, BCFC11 said:

Would everyone feel the same if this Leeds employee was caught spying in the game leading up to our game v them? Highly doubtful.

Yes clubs do allow people to watch PARTS of a training session, when doing tactical, set pieces, or when the starting 11 is clearly being shown, only club officials are allowed on site. So when this person did get caught it was a ‘closed’ training session, gaining an unfair advantage? Most certainly.

Spot on.

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26 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

He quoted a number of Derby games this season and provided examples too though.

Gave analysis on Man Utd v Derby, Derby v us and Chelsea v Derby. Think he's pretty big on this side of the game etc.

Oh I'd expect it this season, absolutely, and that intricately. If he wants to tell me 23 clubsx 51 games last year x4hours plus the games this year, I'm saying 'bullshit'. If that's true, basically he's admitting he has f all impact because you can look at Leeds last year to counter them. 

This is nothing more than a PR exercise imho. Totally staged. Impressive none the less. But look even Man Utd showed you don't have to be sooo intricate; on the weekend they basically gave away we saw wide strikers against attacking fullbacks was there kryptonite and from there containment. That doesn't require the analysis Bielsa is blagging they pull out. 

And then, all this data Bielsa is looking at, absorbing it for not only his next game but what the next 3 because he needs to pick with the short term future in mind... he is 100% chatting bollox to my mind. He's basically trying to minimise the impact of the spying because look at all this data I have anyway even putting that aside. 

Like I said, if he could do that on Bristol City, Rotherham, Ipswich, Reading tomorrow I'll accept I'm wrong. He won't, I'm sure because he can't, and only doing so would convince me this hasn't been prepared for the presser. 

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1 minute ago, 29AR said:

Oh I'd expect it this season, absolutely, and that intricately. If he wants to tell me 23 clubsx 51 games last year x4hours plus the games this year, I'm saying 'bullshit'. If that's true, basically he's admitting he has f all impact because you can look at Leeds last year to counter them. 

This is nothing more than a PR exercise imho. Totally staged. Impressive none the less. But look even Man Utd showed you don't have to be sooo intricate; on the weekend they basically gave away we saw wide strikers against attacking fullbacks was there kryptonite and from there containment. That doesn't require the analysis Bielsa is blagging they pull out. 

And then, all this data Bielsa is looking at, absorbing it for not only his next game but what the next 3 because he needs to pick with the short term future in mind... he is 100% chatting bollox to my mind. He's basically trying to minimise the impact of the spying because look at all this data I have anyway even putting that aside. 

Like I said, if he could do that on Bristol City, Rotherham, Ipswich, Reading tomorrow I'll accept I'm wrong. He won't, I'm sure because he can't, and only doing so would convince me this hasn't been prepared for the presser. 

I'm on the fence about the depth of his research. He has form for it elsewhere- I think it possible it happened, maybe it partly depends on how big their scouting and analysis department is too.

Wouldn't agree- Leeds last year were vastly different to Leeds under Bielsa. He has quite significantly improved a number of players- I reckon he's a bit of an obsessive though, not all managers are to that extent. He condenses it into about 10-15 mins per opponent as players as I guess we all do waver after a long time watching.

.https://www.foxsportsasia.com/football/1021321/you-know-more-than-me-bielsas-barcelona-research-surprised-guardiola/

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4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm on the fence about the depth of his research. He has form for it elsewhere- I think it possible it happened, maybe it partly depends on how big their scouting and analysis department is too.

Wouldn't agree- Leeds last year were vastly different to Leeds under Bielsa. He has quite significantly improved a number of players- I reckon he's a bit of an obsessive though, not all managers are to that extent. He condenses it into about 10-15 mins per opponent as players as I guess we all do waver after a long time watching.

.https://www.foxsportsasia.com/football/1021321/you-know-more-than-me-bielsas-barcelona-research-surprised-guardiola/

For me it comes to simple maths. Every champ team played at least 48 games last year (46 league, 2 cups). Multiple that by 23, multiple that by 4 hours a game. Talking 4,500 hours. Times that by 1.5 as we are hald way through a season and he's looking this year too, perhaps more closely this year as it's of relevance. Most people., including (relatively) poorly paid analysts will do a 35 hour week. Even if he had 10 analysts, we are talking 6 months of work before it even starts getting compounded. It just doesn't seem remotely plausible... to me. 

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41 minutes ago, spudski said:

We are...just as much, if not more.

Of course - all clubs do it.

LJ and his coaching staff know all there is to know about every regular Championship player they face. It’s in every clubs interest to do their necessary homework on opposition players. All their strengths and weaknesses along with the favoured formation and tactics of the manager.

All of Citys regular first teamers will be known to every other club  It’s common practice.

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Was it morally okay to do? Probably not. Did he break any rules in doing it? Definitely not. (As far as I can tell anyway). 

In which case I can't see that the EFL/FA can do FA about it. If the 'spy' trespassed (sp) then the police could have done something but seems they ain't so just a moral issue. Let's be honest, morals went out of football a long time ago.

 

 

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1 minute ago, arrytheb said:

Was it morally okay to do? Probably not. Did he break any rules in doing it? Definitely not. (As far as I can tell anyway). 

In which case I can't see that the EFL/FA can do FA about it. If the 'spy' trespassed (sp) then the police could have done something but seems they ain't so just a moral issue. Let's be honest, morals went out of football a long time ago.

  

 

You're not wrong there.

What made me laugh was Jenas going on about a points deduction on the Saturday and then talking about how Bournemouth should have got in the refs face Sunday evening on MOTD2. 

Interesting (football) moral compass he has.

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7 minutes ago, arrytheb said:

Was it morally okay to do? Probably not. Did he break any rules in doing it? Definitely not. (As far as I can tell anyway). 

In which case I can't see that the EFL/FA can do FA about it. If the 'spy' trespassed (sp) then the police could have done something but seems they ain't so just a moral issue. Let's be honest, morals went out of football a long time ago.

 

 

Just to be facetious, trespass is a civil wrong not a crime. 'Trespassers will be prosecuted' as misleading a sign as that brexit bus. 

Edited by 29AR
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10 minutes ago, 29AR said:

For me it comes to simple maths. Every champ team played at least 48 games last year (46 league, 2 cups). Multiple that by 23, multiple that by 4 hours a game. Talking 4,500 hours. Times that by 1.5 as we are hald way through a season and he's looking this year too, perhaps more closely this year as it's of relevance. Most people., including (relatively) poorly paid analysts will do a 35 hour week. Even if he had 10 analysts, we are talking 6 months of work before it even starts getting compounded. It just doesn't seem remotely plausible... to me. 

Ha

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4 hours ago, Super said:

Standard Leeds thinking they are above every other team. Scummy club.

The Championship league table doesn't lie 😎

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24 minutes ago, 29AR said:

For me it comes to simple maths. Every champ team played at least 48 games last year (46 league, 2 cups). Multiple that by 23, multiple that by 4 hours a game. Talking 4,500 hours. Times that by 1.5 as we are hald way through a season and he's looking this year too, perhaps more closely this year as it's of relevance. Most people., including (relatively) poorly paid analysts will do a 35 hour week. Even if he had 10 analysts, we are talking 6 months of work before it even starts getting compounded. It just doesn't seem remotely plausible... to me. 

10 - they've got hundreds!

 

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8 minutes ago, downendcity said:

10 - they've got hundreds!

 

data.thumb.jpg.37460f769f1581585a06903b70da5960.jpg

Well, then there is that. One man's qualitative interpretation v another's, then there is absorbing that data, selecting your team, imparting that knowledge in your players in enough time for them to leave training at midday to get a round of golf in or media or or or community visits whilst also working on fitness and their own plays to counter the opposition... in this presser, in my opinion, less would have been more Mr Bielsa, in that it would have been believable. 

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17 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Well, then there is that. One man's qualitative interpretation v another's, then there is absorbing that data, selecting your team, imparting that knowledge in your players in enough time for them to leave training at midday to get a round of golf in or media or or or community visits whilst also working on fitness and their own plays to counter the opposition... in this presser, in my opinion, less would have been more Mr Bielsa, in that it would have been believable. 

Gives them 10-15 mins on the opponent.

Split partly between their attacking strengths and weaknesses and the same with defence apparently.

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2 hours ago, 29AR said:

For me it comes to simple maths. Every champ team played at least 48 games last year (46 league, 2 cups). Multiple that by 23, multiple that by 4 hours a game. Talking 4,500 hours. Times that by 1.5 as we are hald way through a season and he's looking this year too, perhaps more closely this year as it's of relevance. Most people., including (relatively) poorly paid analysts will do a 35 hour week. Even if he had 10 analysts, we are talking 6 months of work before it even starts getting compounded. It just doesn't seem remotely plausible... to me. 

 

So those 10 analysts they employ are at home awaiting their next job from Leeds, how many Championship games were played this week....  24 games, so each analysts has been assigned 2.4 games to look at, each taking 4 hours to compile so just over 8 hours to compile, and file with the club to add to their dossier on those clubs for the week. You wouldn't need 10 analysts either,  96 hours of work, with your suggestion that they are doing 35 hours a week they would need 2.7 analysts full time, if you had 4-5 a 19-24 hour working week. 

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6 hours ago, Fiale said:

 

So those 10 analysts they employ are at home awaiting their next job from Leeds, how many Championship games were played this week....  24 games, so each analysts has been assigned 2.4 games to look at, each taking 4 hours to compile so just over 8 hours to compile, and file with the club to add to their dossier on those clubs for the week. You wouldn't need 10 analysts either,  96 hours of work, with your suggestion that they are doing 35 hours a week they would need 2.7 analysts full time, if you had 4-5 a 19-24 hour working week. 

Except you're missing  they were compiling for last season also, Bielsa's grandioise claim of 51 derby games from last year plus this season also, on every championship team, that's where it becomes thousands of man hours and lacking credibility. You're right for a given game week of course. 

Edited by 29AR
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If they did it all in a week, but I didn't see where he said it was all done in that time frame. If this is a ongoing thing at the club (and others have indicated all clubs are doing it to some degree bar the actual spying part) then this would just be part of the clubs weekly activity, adding to their dossiers on other clubs in a ongoing basis. The only difference for the last week would be people pulling the files out and summarising key points from all the reports for the team. I maybe wrong, but that would be the only way this kind of thing could work, and as mentioned by others Leeds are alone in this approach.... maybe a poster who is more into the footballing world will be able to shed some light on this, would be interesting to know.

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Apparently when we sent one of our drones to watch Millwall training, it caused some sort of fuss at an airport. Anybody hear about that? 😏

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12 hours ago, 29AR said:

For me it comes to simple maths. Every champ team played at least 48 games last year (46 league, 2 cups). Multiple that by 23, multiple that by 4 hours a game. Talking 4,500 hours. Times that by 1.5 as we are hald way through a season and he's looking this year too, perhaps more closely this year as it's of relevance. Most people., including (relatively) poorly paid analysts will do a 35 hour week. Even if he had 10 analysts, we are talking 6 months of work before it even starts getting compounded. It just doesn't seem remotely plausible... to me. 

It does not work that way. There are services to use and software like 3D tactico coach that does that task. Ten, twenty, thirty etc matches can be studied and the information turned into dossiers and video footage. All done by a couple of individuals in days.

Edited by Cowshed
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1 hour ago, Leveller said:

Apparently when we sent one of our drones to watch Millwall training, it caused some sort of fuss at an airport. Anybody hear about that? 😏

It must have been a tad off course !!

Edited by BigTone
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4 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

It does not work that way. There are services to use and software like 3D tactico coach that does that task. Ten, twenty, thirty etc matches can be studied and the information turned into dossiers and video footage. All done by a couple of individuals in days.

I'm glad this has become news worthy as I don't think the average football fan realises actually how much technology is used in football/sport these days.

Info from players wearing gadgets in there vests all being tracked via satellite and gathered by analysts using software.

Individual Apps that players have...and software tracking sleep patterns, rest, diet etc.

It really is mind blowing how much is used these days, and it's not really spoken about or shown via the national media.

I've used layman's terms here.

 

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40 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

It does not work that way. There are services to use and software like 3D tactico coach that does that task. Ten, twenty, thirty etc matches can be studied and the information turned into dossiers and video footage. All done by a couple of individuals in days.

That's how he explained it worked, which is why I'm a non-believer. He said his staff spent the time analysing the games and invested on average 4 hours a game. That's what tipped me to 'this has been prepared for the presser and he's blagging this for PR' and now everyone is not talking about sneaky, sneaky Bielsa, but what a magnificent manager he is. It's had exactly the desired effect. In my opinion, maybe I am wrong. 

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57 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'm glad this has become news worthy as I don't think the average football fan realises actually how much technology is used in football/sport these days.

Info from players wearing gadgets in there vests all being tracked via satellite and gathered by analysts using software.

Individual Apps that players have...and software tracking sleep patterns, rest, diet etc.

It really is mind blowing how much is used these days, and it's not really spoken about or shown via the national media.

I've used layman's terms here.

 

I don't know why the manager (head coach tsk) doesn't just get in his car, drive up the motorway for 2 hours, and sit in his sheepskin coat, with a hot bovril in one hand and a greasy bacon sarnie in the other, and watch the opposition.

Analytics! I ask you!!

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