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old_eastender

Team for Stoke

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10 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

From what I've read does not sound like Nagy fully fit and Afobe can't play, so...

Bentley

Hunt, Moore, Baker, Rowe

Massengo, Brownhill, Eliasson, Palmer

Fammy, Wiemann

 

That’s about right I reckon.

LJ might start Semenyo ahead of Famara ........:dunno:

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I can see LJ going with this, but with obviously Palmer on the left and Eliasson on the right.

I'd still like to see us revert to a back 3 though if possible, Boro cut through us a number of times with the back 4 before the international break. Albeit I think we could all see they are a good side, that have had a bit of a slow start, they've got a lot of players that can hurt you. However, we just look that extra bit solid with a back 3, but this obviously does depend on whether LJ thinks Williams is ready for a starting spot.

                                                                                          Bentley

                                                           Moore                  Williams                  Baker                   

                                       Hunt                       Massengo                 Brownhill                    Rowe

                                                                                          Palmer

                                                                      Weimann                   Diedhiou 

Playing 3 at the back also allows us to get Palmer in his best position IMO.

Edited by 97Red
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12 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

From what I've read does not sound like Nagy fully fit and Afobe can't play, so...

Bentley

Hunt, Moore, Baker, Rowe

Massengo, Brownhill, Eliasson, Palmer

Fammy, Wiemann

 

With a fit Nagy and an eligible Afobe I'd be really confident. I agree with your line up, but it'll be a close game I think. Can Massengo do it on a mild Saturday in Stoke...?

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It's hard to pick the team right now.

4-4-2 means having Palmer out wide unless you drop him for O'Dowda

                                  Bentley

                    Hunt Moore Baker Rowe

          Eliasson Brownhill Massengo Palmer

                         Weimann Diedihou

 

3-5-2 means no Eliasson

                                Bentley

                  Moore Williams Baker

            Hunt Brownhill Massengo Rowe

                              Palmer

                     Weimann Diedhiou

 

Perhaps to get our best players all on the field in their proper positions right now it's 4-4-1-1?

                          Bentley

           Hunt Moore Baker Rowe

Eliasson Brownhill Massengo O'Dowda

                          Palmer 

                        Weimann

 

I actually prefer Pereira over Hunt, but I think LJ will pick Hunt because of the too much inexperience comments.

 

Edited by Prinny
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Bentley 

Hunt    moore   williams baker    Rowe

            Eliasson messengo    Brownhill

                              Palmer 

                               Weimann

 

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29 minutes ago, Prinny said:

It's hard to pick the team right now.

4-4-2 means having Palmer out wide unless you drop him for O'Dowda

                                  Bentley

                    Hunt Moore Baker Rowe

          Eliasson Brownhill Massengo Palmer

                         Weimann Diedihou

 

3-5-2 means no Eliasson

                                Bentley

                  Moore Williams Baker

            Hunt Brownhill Massengo Rowe

                              Palmer

                     Weimann Diedhiou

 

Perhaps to get our best players all on the field in their proper positions right now it's 4-4-1-1?

                          Bentley

           Hunt Moore Baker Rowe

Eliasson Brownhill Massengo O'Dowda

                          Palmer 

                        Weimann

 

I actually prefer Pereira over Hunt, but I think LJ will pick Hunt because of the too much inexperience comments.

 

I would of agreed before i saw Pereira in the under 21 game , he was so woeful defensively! Makes me think he needs more time to adapt to this league . 

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                       Bentley

Hunt Moore Williams Baker Rowe

    Eliasson Massengo Brownhill

                      Palmer

                     Weimann

 

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10 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Am I the only person who thinks that Massengo isn’t ready for the first team?

No I think there is a lot to learn defensively and with everyone fit would be backup to Nagy and Brownhill.

But he is the player with the most potential in the squad, that is undeniable. 

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12 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Am I the only person who thinks that Massengo isn’t ready for the first team?

IMO he is definitely ready for being involved in the first team. But not to start every game. Pretty sure he wouldn’t of started as many games if the injuries didn’t occur. But for such an inexperienced player he has more than stepped up and our results back that up. 

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Bit of a strange one but I wonder if this would work:

                 Bentley

      Moore  Williams  Baker

Hunt.  Brownhill Massengo  O'Dowda 

                   Palmer 

             Eliasson

                          Weimann 

  

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5 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

Semenayo not yet ready for Championship football..imo.

It’s LJs opinion that matters..............and he should know.

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5 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Am I the only person who thinks that Massengo isn’t ready for the first team?

Possibly! 😜

I think we just need to be mindful of the fact that he played 3.5 league games in a short space of time since arriving, in a very physical league.  There have been more than enough positive things from him whether he’s 18 or 28, or 3 games into his time here or 103.  He’s more than held his own, but I did think Boro stamped on him and he was also a little fatigued as the game went on.  International break at the right time....and hopefully not extended too much by France u19s in that period.

Think Nagy will be another week away, and I wouldn’t rush him either.

I get that Eliasson was good v Boro, but I think the 5212 with Ashley Williams coming in to help guide Taylor Moore through would be what I’d do.  Get that central core nice and compact again....3 CBs shielded by 2 CMs.

Moore_______Williams_______Baker

_____Brownhill_____Massengo_____

And means we can keep Palmer central.

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9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Possibly! 😜

I think we just need to be mindful of the fact that he played 3.5 league games in a short space of time since arriving, in a very physical league.  There have been more than enough positive things from him whether he’s 18 or 28, or 3 games into his time here or 103.  He’s more than held his own, but I did think Boro stamped on him and he was also a little fatigued as the game went on.  International break at the right time....and hopefully not extended too much by France u19s in that period.

Think Nagy will be another week away, and I wouldn’t rush him either.

I get that Eliasson was good v Boro, but I think the 5212 with Ashley Williams coming in to help guide Taylor Moore through would be what I’d do.  Get that central core nice and compact again....3 CBs shielded by 2 CMs.

Moore_______Williams_______Baker

_____Brownhill_____Massengo_____

And means we can keep Palmer central.

Williams has to play , will certainly have a point to prove.

If Massengo needs a break could look at O’Dowda central alongside Brownhill 

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Semenyo and 10 others. Keep Fammy on the bench, champing at the bit, to bring on later if it doesn't work or the youngster tires.

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4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Massengo looked fantastic to me against Boro. Not sure why he needs to be dropped or rested?

Offered nothing except winning 5 fouls. Didn't have 1 interception, clearance or tackle, and it was the same story going forward.

I feel like we watched two very different games. It was clear that he was the most talented on the pitch and had the most potential, but breaking it down he actually offered very little. 

Nagy, Brownhill and Palmer for me with Massengo to come on late for his superb ball retention skills. 

Edited by marcofisher
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15 minutes ago, daored said:

Williams has to play , will certainly have a point to prove.

If Massengo needs a break could look at O’Dowda central alongside Brownhill 

Massengo livens up the midfield they all run scared of him cant leave him out especially without Naggy.

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1 minute ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Massengo livens up the midfield they all run scared of him cant leave him out especially without Naggy.

Agree he should play , just replying to @Davefevs post about potential fatigued

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7 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

Offered nothing except winning 5 fouls. Didn't have 1 interception, clearance or tackle, and it was the same story going forward.

I feel like we watched two very different games. It was clear that he was the most talented on the pitch and had the most potential, but breaking it down he actually offered very little. 

Nagy, Brownhill and Palmer for me with Massengo to come on late for his superb ball retention skills. 

I thought he was much quieter v Boro too.  Wasn’t bad, but nowhere near as good as Derby or Hull (Derby especially).  But I think it was a funny game too, where neither midfield controlled the game....the game seemed to be played in each team’s final third, whereas most games seem to be played out in the middle third.

Teams will do their homework on both Massengo and Nagy, but (early days I know) I think both have football intelligence to know how to get around this.

On the Hull game, Massengo was pressed from minute one and rushed a bit.  By the second half he just sucked players in and played first time or let his teammates bypass him.  There was one bit in second half where someone played a firm pass.  You could see 3 players ready to pounce, even on a good touch....instead, Massengo just dummied the ball, leaving them looking a bit stupid.

We do have to allow players off-games or at least less effective games.  The “he’s a 7/10 every week” is unrealistic.

 

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1 hour ago, marcofisher said:

Offered nothing except winning 5 fouls. Didn't have 1 interception, clearance or tackle, and it was the same story going forward.

I feel like we watched two very different games. It was clear that he was the most talented on the pitch and had the most potential, but breaking it down he actually offered very little. 

Nagy, Brownhill and Palmer for me with Massengo to come on late for his superb ball retention skills. 

Thought he was sharp onto the opposition every time they had it. Was noticeably poorer when he went off injured and we lost the midfield battle.

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18 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Thought he was sharp onto the opposition every time they had it. Was noticeably poorer when he went off injured and we lost the midfield battle.

A fair analysis. However, who would you replace or would you leave Nagy on the bench even if he is fit? 

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22 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

A fair analysis. However, who would you replace or would you leave Nagy on the bench even if he is fit? 

We then have genuine rotation / rest options, with formation options too.  Long old season and we aren’t getting much luck with injuries.  

 

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9 hours ago, Shtanley said:

I reckon I'd risk Williams mind. 

Bentley

Moore Williams Baker

Pereira Brownhill Massengo Rowe

Palmer

Weimann Diedhiou

This for me. We were too open v Boro. Palmer is better centrally. Gives Diedhiou support (at last) from Weimann. 

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I'd like to see (fitness permitting);

                  Bentley

   Moore   Williams   Baker

Hunt   Brownhill   Nagy   Rowe

                Palmer

 Weimann     Semenyo

 

Massengo if Nagy not fit.

Seen enough of Diedhiou, time to give Semenyo a run out.

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10 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

I'd like to see (fitness permitting);

                  Bentley

   Moore   Williams   Baker

Hunt   Brownhill   Nagy   Rowe

                Palmer

 Weimann     Semenyo

 

Massengo if Nagy not fit.

Seen enough of Diedhiou, time to give Semenyo a run out.

I just wonder with Szmodics playing in the u23s with Palmer on Monday and Macca referring to him yesterday in the pre-match presser, whether we might see a 2 behind Weimann (5221) at some point?

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I just wonder with Szmodics playing in the u23s with Palmer on Monday and Macca referring to him yesterday in the pre-match presser, whether we might see a 2 behind Weimann (5221) at some point?

I picked up on that as well but couldn't see how he would fit him in as I don't see him as a striker, but you may have cracked it there.

                  Bentley

   Moore   Williams   Baker

Hunt   Brownhill   Nagy   Rowe

            Palmer Szmodics

                Weimann

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5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I just wonder with Szmodics playing in the u23s with Palmer on Monday and Macca referring to him yesterday in the pre-match presser, whether we might see a 2 behind Weimann (5221) at some point?

I did read in somebody’s report (think McGregor) that LJ wanted to see how they would link up. But apparently they didn’t really click together at all. So would be surprised to see them both being given the green light tomorrow if they didn’t look up to much playing together in an U23 game. 

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20 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Am I the only person who thinks that Massengo isn’t ready for the first team?

Def a case for leaving him out in some away games.

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I think Williams will start this one.  And O'Dowda should be in the team, now he's signed his new deal it's time to see if he can become a quality, hard-working first teamer.

I'd leave Elliason on the bench for tomorrow.  He would be lovely to bring on with 15 mins left and see him whip in some of his quality crosses.

I'm looking forward to seeing who LJ plays in his attack.

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If Diedhiou starts, we must play to his strengths and thats putting high quality crosses into box for him to attack with his bonce. It’s vital that Eliasson plays if Diedhiou is in the team. 

 

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Pace, power and pressing should disrupt a shaky Stoke defence. Of all the permutations offered up in this thread I like this the most. It has a tidy and subtly powerful midfield pairing and lethal pace and trickery on both flanks. Massengo, Brownhill, Weimann and the back four all have the required workrate and Palmer can provide some power in the middle. 

My only change might be to bench Palmer for Diedhiou/Semenyo - with a view to really pressing their CBs in the first half, really trying to force an error and get Butland under some early pressure from a defence that is prone to errors.

On 12/09/2019 at 06:19, Prinny said:

Perhaps to get our best players all on the field in their proper positions right now it's 4-4-1-1?

                          Bentley

           Hunt Moore Baker Rowe

Eliasson Brownhill Massengo O'Dowda

                          Palmer 

                        Weimann

 

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5 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

Now yous'e gone and spoiled it....😉

Yes. Yes I know.

Trouble is I think a number of formations and player combinations will work against Stoke. Not to underestimate them but genuinely I think there are a few ways to get at them. Diedhiou as a battering ram with COD and Eliasson sending balls into the box and Weimann buzzing around is one option. Another is Palmer as a ten behind one or two strikers. Another again that I think I saw someone suggest was playing O'Dowda, Weimann and Eliasson as a budget Salah, Mane and Firmino in a 433. 

In the end I expect LJ sill surprise us all tomorrow.

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