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foghornred

Joe Morrell and Lee Johnson

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Saw this earlier. It's like what I said before and got a few replies thinking what I said was ridiculous...Small players like Morrell can need more time to develop physically than naturally taller and bigger players.

Clearly LJ knows this being the exact same height as Morrell, and LJ himself being nowhere near championship standard in his early 20s when in the lower leagues, maybe even non league at Morrell's age (can't be bothered to look up where Yeovil were exactly!). LJ obviously saw what Morrell can do on the ball, his work ethic and attitude and could see that what he was missing will eventually come.

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6 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Saw this earlier. It's like what I said before and got a few replies thinking what I said was ridiculous...Small players like Morrell can need more time to develop physically than naturally taller and bigger players.

Clearly LJ knows this being the exact same height as Morrell, and LJ himself being nowhere near championship standard in his early 20s when in the lower leagues, maybe even non league at Morrell's age (can't be bothered to look up where Yeovil were exactly!). LJ obviously saw what Morrell can do on the ball, his work ethic and attitude and could see that what he was missing will eventually come.

According to all these sources, Morrell is 6 ft 1” ...

https://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=73077

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/joe-morrell/profil/spieler/293507

https://en.soccerwiki.org/player.php?pid=70571

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Morrell

Not saying you’re incorrect about his height, I haven’t got a clue how tall he is, but you seem very sure that Morrell is exactly the same height as LJ, so are you saying all these sources have got it so, so wrong and have added 7 inches to his height?!

 

 

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13 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

According to all these sources, Morrell is 6 ft 1” ...

https://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=73077

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/joe-morrell/profil/spieler/293507

https://en.soccerwiki.org/player.php?pid=70571

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Morrell

Not saying you’re incorrect about his height, I haven’t got a clue how tall he is, but you seem very sure that Morrell is exactly the same height as LJ, so are you saying all these sources have got it so, so wrong and have added 7 inches to his height?!

 

 

Must be the same people who said Frankie fielding was over 6ft!

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9 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

@Davefevs got any thoughts on what Mark Ashton has said there? 

No, MA said LJ has always rated him.  If I ask his dad whether that’s the truth, he’ll just think I’m trying to shit-stir. 🙂

1 minute ago, Spoons said:

Must be the same people who said Frankie fielding was over 6ft!

Perhaps he was close-up Dougall.

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No, MA said LJ has always rated him.  If I ask his dad whether that’s the truth, he’ll just think I’m trying to shit-stir. 🙂

Perhaps he was close-up Dougall.

You could ask him how tall Joe is if that`s not too controversial!

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2 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

You could ask him how tall Joe is if that`s not too controversial!

Taller than his dad....just!  I’ve stood next to both.  About 5’6” / 5’7”.  But neither is as tall as Frank.

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Always rated him but was flogging him to clubs left right and centre 🧐

Standard club output here. Just say he’s really surprised everyone at his performances and start afresh imo 

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Taller than his dad....just!  I’ve stood next to both.  About 5’6” / 5’7”.  But neither is as tall as Frank.

So not 6`1" then as all the sources above have him as. I suppose they all get their info from one place and if that`s wrong then they all are.

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6 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Always rated him but was flogging him to clubs left right and centre 🧐

Standard club output here. Just say he’s really surprised everyone at his performances and start afresh imo 

When?

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9 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

So not 6`1" then as all the sources above have him as. I suppose they all get their info from one place and if that`s wrong then they all are.

These might help. 😂😂😂

 

E37F9AB2-0ED4-4F6E-8BA2-66616B6D7A64.jpeg

7BDE6A07-6F35-43AD-8E61-DCD63B7441B4.jpeg
 

that’s him in the back row 😜

Edited by Davefevs
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35 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

According to all these sources, Morrell is 6 ft 1” ...

https://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=73077

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/joe-morrell/profil/spieler/293507

https://en.soccerwiki.org/player.php?pid=70571

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Morrell

Not saying you’re incorrect about his height, I haven’t got a clue how tall he is, but you seem very sure that Morrell is exactly the same height as LJ, so are you saying all these sources have got it so, so wrong and have added 7 inches to his height?!

 

 

When they measured Morrell's height they used a 6' ruler, but they stood the ruler in a 7" hole!

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1 minute ago, JamesBCFC said:

When?

LJ himself has said as much that they were looking at other options. Had a pre season at Yeovil a season or two ago. Constantly the fall guy for subs in games even when playing well. Must be 6th(?) choice CM. 

There’s really no harm in just saying he wasn’t fancied but we love that he’s proving us wrong or something 

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37 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

According to all these sources, Morrell is 6 ft 1” ...

https://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=73077

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/joe-morrell/profil/spieler/293507

https://en.soccerwiki.org/player.php?pid=70571

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Morrell

Not saying you’re incorrect about his height, I haven’t got a clue how tall he is, but you seem very sure that Morrell is exactly the same height as LJ, so are you saying all these sources have got it so, so wrong and have added 7 inches to his height?!

 

 

Haha 6 ft 1 !! Don’t believe everything you read ! 

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Just now, petehinton said:

LJ himself has said as much that they were looking at other options. Had a pre season at Yeovil a season or two ago. Constantly the fall guy for subs in games even when playing well. Must be 6th(?) choice CM. 

There’s really no harm in just saying he wasn’t fancied but we love that he’s proving us wrong or something 

"looking at other options" and "flogging him to clubs left right and centre" as vastly different.

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3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

These might help. 😂😂😂

 

E37F9AB2-0ED4-4F6E-8BA2-66616B6D7A64.jpeg

7BDE6A07-6F35-43AD-8E61-DCD63B7441B4.jpeg

Someone should tell Joe  that if he wants to appear taller it's best not to stand in front of the keeper for team photos. :) 

Edited by downendcity
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1 minute ago, JamesBCFC said:

"looking at other options" and "flogging him to clubs left right and centre" as vastly different.

How much of it was clubs coming us for him vs us asking around for clubs to take him is my point tho. I don’t see how LJ’s use of Morrell since he’s been here suggests he intends on using him much more going forward, MA has backed him into a corner a bit after that interview a bit unnecessarily here 

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47 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Taller than his dad....just!  I’ve stood next to both.  About 5’6” / 5’7”.  But neither is as tall as Frank.

When did you stand next to both?! Police line up?! ✌️😄🍷

Edited by BS4 on Tour...
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9 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Haha 6 ft 1 !! Don’t believe everything you read ! 

Maybe we're planning to sell him to a club in the US.

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3 minutes ago, petehinton said:

How much of it was clubs coming us for him vs us asking around for clubs to take him is my point tho. I don’t see how LJ’s use of Morrell since he’s been here suggests he intends on using him much more going forward, MA has backed him into a corner a bit after that interview a bit unnecessarily here 

I think LJ might rate Morrell now after this season and potentially play him next season IF we lose a central midfielder. 
 

The notion that LJ has always rated him or foresaw this sudden development is imo a load of baloney. Nobody really saw it coming and LJ is no different.

The central midfielders signed over him, the appalling lack of game time last season and the fact Morrell was free to leave us a couple seasons ago without much worry from LJ all suggest this. 

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9 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

I think LJ might rate Morrell now after this season and potentially play him next season IF we lose a central midfielder. 

The notion that LJ has always rated him or foresaw this sudden development is imo a load of baloney. Nobody really saw it coming and LJ is no different.

The central midfielders signed over him, the appalling lack of game time last season and the fact Morrell was free to leave us a couple seasons ago without much worry from LJ all suggest this. 

Agree with this .... and I still think Liam Walsh has the ability to be a great success at our club too .... 

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5 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

I think LJ might rate Morrell now after this season and potentially play him next season IF we lose a central midfielder. 
 

The notion that LJ has always rated him or foresaw this sudden development is imo a load of baloney. Nobody really saw it coming and LJ is no different.

The central midfielders signed over him, the appalling lack of game time last season and the fact Morrell was free to leave us a couple seasons ago without much worry from LJ all suggest this. 

SOD?  Gave him his debut at 16!!!

Back to LJ, I honestly don’t know how much he’s rated him, but he made his dad take him at Cheltenham.  He certainly had Joe’s interests at heart.  Recognised he needed game time, and knew he was better than Margate and Sutton’s level at 20 years of age (now 22).

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11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

SOD?  Gave him his debut at 16!!!

Back to LJ, I honestly don’t know how much he’s rated him, but he made his dad take him at Cheltenham.  He certainly had Joe’s interests at heart.  Recognised he needed game time, and knew he was better than Margate and Sutton’s level at 20 years of age (now 22).

McInness convinced him to stay here rather than go Liverpool, I meant nobody saw his sudden re-emergence. If that’s the right word. 

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Just now, Shtanley said:

McInness convinced him to stay here rather than go Liverpool, I meant nobody saw his sudden re-emergence. If that’s the right word. 

I know, I was being sarcy!

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1 hour ago, Shtanley said:

I think LJ might rate Morrell now after this season and potentially play him next season IF we lose a central midfielder. 
 

The notion that LJ has always rated him or foresaw this sudden development is imo a load of baloney. Nobody really saw it coming and LJ is no different.

The central midfielders signed over him, the appalling lack of game time last season and the fact Morrell was free to leave us a couple seasons ago without much worry from LJ all suggest this. 

Well, depends who to believe.

Ashton says the club were going to release Joe but LJ stepped in and insisted on giving him a new contract as he saw the potential in him.

Not sure that Ashton has anything to gain from lying.. 

 

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2 hours ago, Shtanley said:

I think LJ might rate Morrell now after this season and potentially play him next season IF we lose a central midfielder. 
 

The notion that LJ has always rated him or foresaw this sudden development is imo a load of baloney. Nobody really saw it coming and LJ is no different.

The central midfielders signed over him, the appalling lack of game time last season and the fact Morrell was free to leave us a couple seasons ago without much worry from LJ all suggest this. 

That's literally just speculation on your part though.

I already challenged you on it a few days ago an you didn't acknowledge that then, repeated you speculation doesn't make it fact. Less so when we have literally been told the opposite.

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17 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Well, depends who to believe.

Ashton says the club were going to release Joe but LJ stepped in and insisted on giving him a new contract as he saw the potential in him.

Not sure that Ashton has anything to gain from lying.. 

 

Out of interest, here is a chronology of Morrell’s contract stuff that I can find since LJ was here:

May 2017 (aged 20) contract extended

Nov 2017 (aged 20) 2 year extension (1yr option) to summer 2019 (+1) after impressing at Cheltenham 

Jun 2019 (aged 22) 2 year deal to summer 2021 after showing what he could do in limited minutes over the winter

Nov 2019 (aged 22) 3 year deal to summer 2022 plus 1 year option after impressing at Lincoln and Wales

I guess that summer of 2017 might have been the moment the club considered moving him on, but worth extending if only to cover any development compensation payments...and maybe backs up MA / others possibly not keen, but LJ was - hence why he forced his dad to give him a loan.

No need to not believe anything that was said by MA.

 

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, here is a chronology of Morrell’s contract stuff that I can find since LJ was here:

May 2017 (aged 20) contract extended

Nov 2017 (aged 20) 2 year extension (1yr option) to summer 2019 (+1) after impressing at Cheltenham 

Jun 2019 (aged 22) 2 year deal to summer 2021 after showing what he could do in limited minutes over the winter

Nov 2019 (aged 22) 3 year deal to summer 2022 plus 1 year option after impressing at Lincoln and Wales

I guess that summer of 2017 might have been the moment the club considered moving him on, but worth extending if only to cover any development compensation payments...and maybe backs up MA / others possibly not keen, but LJ was - hence why he forced his dad to give him a loan.

No need to not believe anything that was said by MA.

 

@Shtanley mentioned in the Morrell contract thread that Joe looked at going to America as he didn't see any opportunity at City.

What @Shtanley didn't mention was that this was back in 2016, and instead was happy to leave the implication that it was a recent thing.

Quote

Morrell highlights the summer of 2016 as a particular nadir when it looked like City were ready to cut him loose and he subsequently went on trial at Fleetwood and even spent time in America assessing his options.

Source.

 

What Ashton says in the interview fits with the chronology of the things that we know as fact.

 

It would seem very odd for a manager/head coach to talk a player into staying, force their own father to take said player on loan as a condition of other loans between the clubs (source), then extend that players contract four times if they didn't rate the player at all.

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22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, here is a chronology of Morrell’s contract stuff that I can find since LJ was here:

May 2017 (aged 20) contract extended

Nov 2017 (aged 20) 2 year extension (1yr option) to summer 2019 (+1) after impressing at Cheltenham 

Jun 2019 (aged 22) 2 year deal to summer 2021 after showing what he could do in limited minutes over the winter

Nov 2019 (aged 22) 3 year deal to summer 2022 plus 1 year option after impressing at Lincoln and Wales

I guess that summer of 2017 might have been the moment the club considered moving him on, but worth extending if only to cover any development compensation payments...and maybe backs up MA / others possibly not keen, but LJ was - hence why he forced his dad to give him a loan.

No need to not believe anything that was said by MA.

 

What about when he said that "the coaching staff have showed a huge belief in him" 

Despite playing him only once last season when we only had him, Brownhill and Pack fit?

 

2 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

@Shtanley mentioned in the Morrell contract thread that Joe looked at going to America as he didn't see any opportunity at City.

What @Shtanley didn't mention was that this was back in 2016, and instead was happy to leave the implication that it was a recent thing.

Source.

 

What Ashton says in the interview fits with the chronology of the things that we know as fact.

 

It would seem very odd for a manager/head coach to talk a player into staying, force their own father to take said player on loan as a condition of other loans between the clubs (source), then extend that players contract four times if they didn't rate the player at all.

When did I imply it was a recent thing? I thought it was obvious I was talking about 2016 because everyone knows that's when it was close to happening...

Edited by Shtanley

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20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, here is a chronology of Morrell’s contract stuff that I can find since LJ was here:

May 2017 (aged 20) contract extended

Nov 2017 (aged 20) 2 year extension (1yr option) to summer 2019 (+1) after impressing at Cheltenham 

Jun 2019 (aged 22) 2 year deal to summer 2021 after showing what he could do in limited minutes over the winter

Nov 2019 (aged 22) 3 year deal to summer 2022 plus 1 year option after impressing at Lincoln and Wales

I guess that summer of 2017 might have been the moment the club considered moving him on, but worth extending if only to cover any development compensation payments...and maybe backs up MA / others possibly not keen, but LJ was - hence why he forced his dad to give him a loan.

No need to not believe anything that was said by MA.

 

Yep, it was summer that Ashton said the club were going to release him before LJ insisted on him staying.

Another contract after his success at Lincoln and Wales.

LJ always said that you could put Joe in any team and he would give the same performance level - he's proven that to be true with his performances for Wales.

LJ has always supported Joe and hopefully thats been rewarded.

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1 minute ago, Shtanley said:

When did I imply it was a recent thing? I thought it was obvious I was talking about 2016 because everyone knows that's when it was close to happening...

Do they really?

I'd suggest most don't without having to check exactly when it was.

 

Despite this, you keep on pressing your agenda despite the facts that go completely against it, facts are something you aren't doing too well with right now either.

Quote

Despite playing him only once last season when we only had him, Brownhill and Pack fit?

Morrell played 4 games last season.

Not loads by any stretch, but eliminating 3/4s of them is very misleading.

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Just now, bcfc01 said:

Yep, it was summer that Ashton said the club were going to release him before LJ insisted on him staying.

Another contract after his success at Lincoln and Wales.

LJ always said that you could put Joe in any team and he would give the same performance level - he's proven that to be true with his performances for Wales.

LJ has always supported Joe and hopefully thats been rewarded.

This summer? Summer 2019?

Just for filling in gaps:

Mch 2013 - first pro contract
May 2016 - one year deal to summer 2017

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1 minute ago, JamesBCFC said:

Do they really?

I'd suggest most don't without having to check exactly when it was.

 

Despite this, you keep on pressing your agenda despite the facts that go completely against it, facts are something you aren't doing too well with right now either.

Morrell played 4 games last season.

Not loads by any stretch, but eliminating 3/4s of them is very misleading.

In the league I meant sorry Mr Pedant!

 

What's my agenda?

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1 minute ago, Shtanley said:

In the league I meant sorry Mr Pedant!

 

What's my agenda?

You've repeatedly stated LJ doesn't rate any of our young players, despite the fact Kelly played a large number of games for what I think was his debut season (might be wrong if he made an appearence beforehand), despite the fact our squad is one of the younger ones in the division, albeit average age brought up through a couple of outliers. Despite the fact an 18 y/o has played in midfield in the majority of games this season. Despite the fact that Semenyo was given game time last season and this and given a new 4 or 5 year contract. Despite the FOUR contract extensions for Joe Morrell who you say LJ has never rated (even though we have literal video evidence to the contrary at the top of this thread, with what MA says corroborating with other things we know as fact through various interviews).

Max O'Leary played around a third of our games last season, yes enforced by injury, but if LJ really didn't trust him it would have been long before March(?) that he decides to bring someone like Marinovic in.

Maybe it's time to accept the evidence provided by reality.

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6 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

You've repeatedly stated LJ doesn't rate any of our young players, despite the fact Kelly played a large number of games for what I think was his debut season (might be wrong if he made an appearence beforehand), despite the fact our squad is one of the younger ones in the division, albeit average age brought up through a couple of outliers. Despite the fact an 18 y/o has played in midfield in the majority of games this season. Despite the fact that Semenyo was given game time last season and this and given a new 4 or 5 year contract. Despite the FOUR contract extensions for Joe Morrell who you say LJ has never rated (even though we have literal video evidence to the contrary at the top of this thread, with what MA says corroborating with other things we know as fact through various interviews).

Max O'Leary played around a third of our games last season, yes enforced by injury, but if LJ really didn't trust him it would have been long before March(?) that he decides to bring someone like Marinovic in.

Maybe it's time to accept the evidence provided by reality.

Not quite what I've stated and what I think. More to do with our own academy players. 

Never said LJ has never rated Morrell, he probably rates him now. I don't believe that he foreshadowed his eventual current ability like people are so claiming.

LJ was perfectly happy to sign many CMs over him and was happy for Morrell to leave the club. 

Let's have this discussion in person rather than on OTIB pal, cbfa to type up my opinions.

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Just now, Shtanley said:

Not quite what I've stated and what I think. More to do with our own academy players. 

Never said LJ has never rated Morrell, he probably rates him now. I don't believe that he foreshadowed his eventual current ability like people are so claiming.

LJ was perfectly happy to sign many CMs over him and was happy for Morrell to leave the club. 

Let's have this discussion in person rather than on OTIB pal, cbfa to type up my opinions.

You keep saying that and have no evidence of it

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1 minute ago, JamesBCFC said:

You keep saying that and have no evidence of it

Right, so you want what? Texts from the aforementioned parties? You want me to corner LJ outside his home and press him on it?

 

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6 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Right, so you want what? Texts from the aforementioned parties? You want me to corner LJ outside his home and press him on it?

 

At least provide something to back up the claim.

You are asserting something that flies completely in the face of established facts.

 

Don't get arsey over someone wanting evidence when you are making such claims.

MA/Morrell/GJ being forced to take Morrell as part of the Moore loan/4 contract extensions all go against what you are stating, meanwhile you have provided nothing to back up you claim other than an incorrect appearance stat for last season.

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5 hours ago, Shtanley said:

I think LJ might rate Morrell now after this season and potentially play him next season IF we lose a central midfielder. 
 

The notion that LJ has always rated him or foresaw this sudden development is imo a load of baloney. Nobody really saw it coming and LJ is no different.

The central midfielders signed over him, the appalling lack of game time last season and the fact Morrell was free to leave us a couple seasons ago without much worry from LJ all suggest this. 

Are you the guy that does the podcast? You should ask @Robbored what happens when you say untruths about the manager on a forum when you're easily identifiable. 

4 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

Well, depends who to believe.

Ashton says the club were going to release Joe but LJ stepped in and insisted on giving him a new contract as he saw the potential in him.

Not sure that Ashton has anything to gain from lying.. 

 

This, someone clearly decided he was to stay and somehow Stanley is very reluctant to give LJ that credit.

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59 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Are you the guy that does the podcast? You should ask @Robbored what happens when you say untruths about the manager on a forum when you're easily identifiable. 

Should tread carefully or the club will muffle the PA/Tannoy speakers in the area of his season ticket seat... Poor old Robbo is still suffering the consequences to this day !   😂

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