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8 minutes ago, Rossi the Robin said:

It’s not really the form guide, although that really doesn’t help recently- its more the turgid football at home over 2 years 

I enjoyed the win on Saturday v a bottom side but not going to get carried away with it 

In 50+ years I've long since learned not to get carried away with it.

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4 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Well I’ll wash my mouth out with soap and water then ! FFS

Holloway might be a gashead but he’s a football thru and thru. He knows the game both as a player and as a manager and certainly knows his stuff.

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1 minute ago, TonyTonyTony said:

That will be why he is out of work now as a manager then.

He doesn’t need to be in football these days - he makes a tidy sum with his tv and radio punditry.

I do know that before Monk was appointed at the Owls loads of their fans wanted Holloway as their manager.

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4 hours ago, Bristolboy_06 said:

Also as a paying BCFC customer, i think people who want LJ sacked are as thick as pig shit

I want him sacked. Mainly because it is boring watching us and I feel the team is underachieving and the manager has failed to make the most of huge advantages over his peers.  I am not thick as pig shit.  If you genuinely think that someone with a differing opinion to you is necessarily 'thick as pig shit', then I politely suggest that, actually, you are the one that is 'thick as pig shit'.

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5 hours ago, Bristolboy_06 said:

Also as a paying BCFC customer, i think people who want LJ sacked are as thick as pig shit

Just out of interest how thick is pig shit(I know they stink) but I have not seen pig shit since I was kid(not goat)? 

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2 hours ago, bristolcitysweden said:

Steve Lansdown is far, far from happy.

You mean Maggie just gave him socks, a bottle of Brute and a Toblerone for Christmas?

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1 hour ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I get you but playing like Man City every game is impossible at this level. Crapdiff went up 2 yrs ago playing turgid stuff but they were strong with a decent defence etc....

Cardiff (“Crapdiff” - wahey, what a comedian! 🤓) weren’t ‘turgid’ - they were quick, physical, streetwise, belligerent - and they were far from a team that just played direct - eg their goal against Ipswich in that season involved about 10 short, quick passes from defence to attack....easy and lazy to label a Warnock team ‘turgid’ - he’s a genius and no-one can match his record ...

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11 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

You call me a comedian and label Warnock a genius. Priceless. 

Stay off the the Kia Ora dude 😂

In fairness to BS4, Warnock's record in terms of the number of promotions he's achieved does put him in the genius bracket ( from a football management point of view). The way he is divides opinions, and many see him as a bit of a cock, but I think that is a persona he's developed for the media over time, and particularly when he wants to deflect attention from his players.

His football tends to be very direct ( I think we could/should be a bit more direct on occasions) and when it works, as it often has, there's no denying it's effectiveness, but the danger with that style is that it can easily become just long balls hoped out of defence.

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Warnock, I've got mixed views on.

I don't think his Sheffield United side played terrible football, probably more of a mix of styles or were especially short termist- plus they brought through a number of youth, something he doesn't often get credit for, youth that is.

No doubt he had a strong body of work there, but that was a) A while ago and b)  His home town club who he is/was a fan of. He was always going to take some care with them! 

He also did well with Crystal Palace not long after and once again he did bring through youth and the Football again mixed. Bottom in mid October to playoffs same season noteworthy indeed! 

QPR again, no terrible football. Also got the best out of Taarabt, not many managers have! Not sure any other managers have...but then again FFP was not a thing at this level and he had the biggest budget or one of the biggest budgets in the League. 

Getting Cardiff up was of course notable- and vital for them actually. So why am I not fully sold? 

His tactics seem to have got worse and more direct over the years (that said, Arter and Cameras added in midfield in PL can't all be bad- plus of course a certain Bobby Reid).

As @downendcity mentions it can be a fine line between direct and longball football! There's the gamesmanship of course...notably the Battle of Bramall Lane when they deliberately went down to 8 or 7 men of course to try and get a game abandoned in which they were losing badly. 

It's also worth noting that Cardiff though it was an impressive promotion had 4 years worth of parachute payments- he benefitted from it in more than half of 2016/17 and 2017/18. Does @BS4 on Tour... consider this to be decisive or not? 

It also is worth noting that he didn't develop them or the style THIS season back down despite a significant number of upgrades from their promotion two years ago- they lost Gunnarsson granted. 

There's probably more but off the top of my head

Smithies vs Whoever they've got now. Upgrade ON PAPER. 

Flint- His passing in 2017/18 wasn't so bad, potential there.

Cunningham- Better footballing LB than 2017/18 or at least better technically.

Pack, Vaulks, Bacuna- Certainly better footballing midfielders than they generally had 2 years ago. Collectively for sure.

Murphy- Proven and has some flair at this level.

Tomlin- Mercurial is a good word. So was Taarabt- more significantly though Harris is getting the best out of Tomlin- a healthy and happy Tomlin is a strong player indeed.

Madine- Has good attributes. Not the worst technically yet good physicality. Did quite well under Wilder last season IIRC. 

Reid- Look at him now at Fulham! 

My point is basically that he had a stronger, perhaps a significantly stronger squad than 2 years ago but failed to develop the style a bit while pushing for promotion seriously as well. 

That's an indictment IMO. 

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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16 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I get you but playing like Man City every game is impossible at this level. Crapdiff went up 2 yrs ago playing turgid stuff but they were strong with a decent defence etc.

I do wish we would setup more attacking at home but it’s LJ being pragmatic.  

Well I’ll wash my mouth out with soap and water then ! FFS

No it is not. Any team at any level can adopt principles of any team. 

Man City or Mr Warnocks football are based on similar values - The Manager has made a decision to pursue what is important to them. 

Edited by Cowshed
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2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

As @downendcity mentions it can be a fine line between direct and longball football! There's the gamesmanship of course...notably the Battle of Bramall Lane when they deliberately went down to 8 or 7 men of course to try and get a game abandoned in which they were losing badly. 

It's also worth noting that Cardiff though it was an impressive promotion had 4 years worth of parachute payments- he benefitted from it in more than half of 2016/17 and 2017/18. Does @BS4 on Tour... consider this to be decisive or not? 

 

I’m not sure you can say the Blades ‘deliberately’ went down to 8 men. If that was the case why did Warnock ensure that two of those sent off never played for Sheff Utd again? If he’d instructed them to deliberately get sent off then he’d have happily included them in future squads and teams?

And the point on ‘parachute’ payments is an interesting one - it is undoubtedly useful to clubs who find them back in the championship, but I still think you need a bloody good manager to get promoted from this division into the premier league. It’s not all about parachute payments, as Swansea and Stoke etc have found out ...

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7 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I’m not sure you can say the Blades ‘deliberately’ went down to 8 men. If that was the case why did Warnock ensure that two of those sent off never played for Sheff Utd again? If he’d instructed them to deliberately get sent off then he’d have happily included them in future squads and teams?

And the point on ‘parachute’ payments is an interesting one - it is undoubtedly useful to clubs who find them back in the championship, but I still think you need a bloody good manager to get promoted from this division into the premier league. It’s not all about parachute payments, as Swansea and Stoke etc have found out ...

Thanks- I'll go away and read up on the "Battle of Bramall" Lane point- I seem to vaguely recall a lot of acrimony- maybe Megson accused etc.

Fair point. Swansea to be fair have been making cutbacks both this and last season but your general point, absolutely agree- think he failed to develop Cardiff's style a bit more thjis season- he clearly had a better squad than 2 seasons ago, certainly technically...but also Bogle then vs Reid/Tomlin/Glatzel (not Championship proven so question marks granted) and Madine (Tomlin there 2017/18 but barely played, Madine joined half season but didn't fit)...embarrassment of riches this time compared to then and that's just the strikers!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks- I'll go away and read up on the "Battle of Bramall" Lane point- I seem to vaguely recall a lot of acrimony- maybe Megson accused etc.

Fair point. Swansea to be fair have been making cutbacks both this and last season but your general point, absolutely agree- think he failed to develop Cardiff's style a bit more thjis season- he clearly had a better squad than 2 seasons ago, certainly technically...but also Bogle then vs Reid/Tomlin/Glatzel (not Championship proven so question marks granted) and Madine (Tomlin there 2017/18 but barely played, Madine joined half season but didn't fit)...embarrassment of riches this time compared to then and that's just the strikers!

Cheers for the reply - happy new year Mr.P ...

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5 hours ago, Cowshed said:

No it is not. Any team at any level can adopt principles of any team. 

Man City or Mr Warnocks football are based on similar values - The Manager has made a decision to pursue what is important to them. 

You see it at Hellenic and Toolstation money does have a bearing even there but players follow managers when they get the invite and the set up and approach appeals. Just responding on your any level point BTW. 

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5 hours ago, Cowshed said:

No it is not. Any team at any level can adopt principles of any team. 

Copying or adopting other teams methods/principles depends on the players any manager has at his disposal.

Thats why is taken LJ several windows to offload and recruit the players he wants to implement his style or his mysterious ‘Identity’.

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Copying or adopting other teams methods/principles depends on the players any manager has at his disposal.

Thats why is taken LJ several windows to offload and recruit the players he wants to implement his style or his mysterious ‘Identity’.

No implementing the methodology and principles I refer to depends on the person and persons in charge. It is why you see it occurring from kids teams up, at academies and on.

The principle across the five elements of play can be used by single minded kids coaches.. 

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2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Copying or adopting other teams methods/principles depends on the players any manager has at his disposal.

Thats why is taken LJ several windows to offload and recruit the players he wants to implement his style or his mysterious ‘Identity’.

Apart from dull, adventureless, inconsistent, defensive, can you define what the LJ football identity is?

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