Match Report: Johnson's latest collapse may be fatal

[glen humphries]

3 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

The attack’s not too great either at the moment. 

All down to lj 

[ScottishRed]

1 hour ago, Drew Peacock said:

I do wonder why, if LJ is recognised as such a great up and coming coach, we never see him connected with vacancies, never seem to have approaches for him.

Sure he appears in press articles about his coaching methods and so on, but publishers are usually pretty keen for any articles and the BCFC media department should be able to get these placed. It lifts his and the club's profile but at the end of the day nobody seems to be interested in our up and coming coach. Why?

I can't see that I have seen much of this apart from the stuff from the club itself and Mark Ashton. You are totally correct he is never mentioned in regard to any vacancies as I suspect inside the game he does not have an 'up and coming' profile at all.

I think he is seen as someone who is competent, nothing special and has one of the safest jobs in the profession.

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, glen humphries said:

We don’t have a problem scoring, we do have a problem defending.

I've always thought that in good teams good defence starts at the front. 

Its not just pressing, it's when you are attacking having players able to hold the ball and build attacking pressure. 

We seem to continually be punished for players making a mistake when in the attacking third, when our players are pushing forward and out of position, and a few quick passes later our then stretched  defence is exposed. 

Strangely we seem unable to exact the same punishment on opposition teams, as our counter attacks can be timed on a calender! 

While I'm not in the LJ outcamp (yet) I agree that this latest run of defeats feels different. 2 poor home performances then this defeat, to a depletedvteam without a win in 3 months has to put pressure on the coach, given the quality in the squad. 

I've long felt that too often we are a team playing with the handbrake on, where players are curtailing their natural instincts. I understand that players need to play discipline but, as has already been commented, why do so many seem shadows of the players they were only a few months ago? 

 

 

 

[Prinny]

28 minutes ago, Allwaysred said:

Why the he'll would you trust LJ with any money in January?? He hasn't been able to identify the 4 key players we've needed in the last 2 summer windows he's had instead he's brought in players who have never featured or who simply don't fit and that lies with LJ. 

 

27 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Agree. Except the bit about LJ. He created the problems, is slow in recognising the problems he’s created and even slower fixing them. 

Most of them are recognised by people who have no FA coaching badges, do not spend their time at NHS Hospital A&Es learning about crisis management, have no drones or grass measuring devices and don’t get paid ££££’s per week. 

Leadership, quality not quantity, physicality..... blindingly obviously attributes of a Championship squad... yet it’s taken him 4 years to realise that!!!! Truly alarming. 

 

 

25 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

This is LJs team.  He built it, he trains it.  No excuses.  The problem areas have been identifiable to anyone with eyes for two seasons - what has LJ done about it?  Bought gash or where he has bought well, took all the creativity out of them.  His team - he lives or dies by it. 

So I want you guys to explain Benik Afobe. That's the evidence, this season, that LJ knows EXACTLY what the problem is, and knows how to fix it.

I'm not claiming he's perfect, I think the squad is assembled incorrectly, I say that in the post I made, but I have evidence to suggest that he CAN fix the issue.

2 years, 4 years.. well we've improved league position year on year which suggests... that he knows how to fix problems. That's why we should give him the opportunity to do it, because we've seen him do it.

If you're saying he doesn't know, and can't fix it. Explain Benik Afobe.

Genuinely try to explain why you think he can't fix problems with the league table improvements year on year, and the evidence from this season as the back drop. Because that is what you'd have to do to sack him as the board. You'd have to truly believe he can't do the things you've literally seen him do.

[maxjak]

25 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

There’s only one Knill . 

I hear the tolling of a bell.......could it be the deathknill?

[Mendip City]

1 hour ago, cityloyal473 said:

This is LJs team.  He built it, he trains it.  No excuses.  The problem areas have been identifiable to anyone with eyes for two seasons - what has LJ done about it?  Bought gash or where he has bought well, took all the creativity out of them.  His team - he lives or dies by it. 

You’d think he’d look at the only successful team he played in and then look at the one he’s “built”..... where are his strong physical and mental characters... where are his McAllister, Orr, Carey, McCoombe, Elliott and Adebola?? 
 

how could he, more than anyone, not realise that you need someone like Marvin Elliott in midfield if you’re going to try to play Nagy or Brownhill or Szmodics or O’Dowda or Palmer...? 
 

the closest we’ve got is Korey Smith... guess what? The only one not signed by Lee...

Football genius? 8 years experience and no tangible success suggests otherwise. 

[RedRock]

19 minutes ago, Prinny said:

 

 

So I want you guys to explain Benik Afobe. That's the evidence, this season, that LJ knows EXACTLY what the problem is, and knows how to fix it.

I'm not claiming he's perfect, I think the squad is assembled incorrectly, I say that in the post I made, but I have evidence to suggest that he CAN fix the issue.

2 years, 4 years.. well we've improved league position year on year which suggests... that he knows how to fix problems. That's why we should give him the opportunity to do it, because we've seen him do it.

If you're saying he doesn't know, and can't fix it. Explain Benik Afobe.

Genuinely try to explain why you think he can't fix problems with the league table improvements year on year, and the evidence from this season as the back drop. Because that is what you'd have to do to sack him as the board. You'd have to truly believe he can't do the things you've literally seen him do.

Afobe seemed a bit of a last minute gamble after we put all our eggs in one basket. We needed two strikers in the Summer. We got one..and I’m not sure whether he was a known injury risk. 

So for Afobe, I'll match you our most recent signing, CoD. Explain that one please.

I also struggle with ‘give me a pre-season with’ Palmer. Fans and managers warned us - as they did about Watkins - but wonder-coach thought he could train the weaknesses out of them and mould them into a successful team. I’m not so sure he is such a wonder-coach given all the ‘nearly’ players acquired who have subsequently fallen into oblivion. 

I massively struggle with a midfield unit packed full of lightweights that he’s acquired. He now recognises, belated, he needs physicality and power. That for me, after 4 years, and lord knows how many midfield acquisitions is the most damming reflection on his tenure.

I’ll suspect you'll raise me Joe and Bobby. But they were here before he arrived and I suspect their improvement had more to do with their own Summer of independent training than LJ - no doubt their autobiography’s will eventually shed light on that. 

Anyhow, LJ is not going anywhere soon, so it’s a case of getting behind the Club and hoping for the best. Forgive me for being a more passive supporter though, as I was in the dying days of the soul destroying Pulis and SoD regimes. 

 

[cityloyal473]

24 minutes ago, Prinny said:

 

 

So I want you guys to explain Benik Afobe. That's the evidence, this season, that LJ knows EXACTLY what the problem is, and knows how to fix it.

I'm not claiming he's perfect, I think the squad is assembled incorrectly, I say that in the post I made, but I have evidence to suggest that he CAN fix the issue.

2 years, 4 years.. well we've improved league position year on year which suggests... that he knows how to fix problems. That's why we should give him the opportunity to do it, because we've seen him do it.

If you're saying he doesn't know, and can't fix it. Explain Benik Afobe.

Genuinely try to explain why you think he can't fix problems with the league table improvements year on year, and the evidence from this season as the back drop. Because that is what you'd have to do to sack him as the board. You'd have to truly believe he can't do the things you've literally seen him do.

Oh come on, Afobe was not his first, second or third choice, let's not pretend otherwise.  And for Afobe I raise you Rodri, Diony et al. And as the poster above noted - O’Dowda.  What a waste of space the guy is and yet the club made his re-signing seem like we'd just got Messi.

If you think the squad is assembled incorrectly who is to blame for that?

We have regressed and continue to regress - the football has gotten progressively worse.  He continues to dine out on beating a second string United team. We will win Sunday and it'll buy him extra time and raise hopes again, until Brentford when it all becomes glaringly obvious again and we get a hammering at home.  Time for him to go.

[Mendip City]

16 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Afobe seemed a bit of a last minute gamble after we put all our eggs in one basket. We needed two strikers in the Summer. We got one..and I’m not sure whether he was a known injury risk. 

So for Afobe, I'll match you our most recent signing, CoD. Explain that one please.

I also struggle with ‘give me a pre-season with’ Palmer. Fans and managers warned us - as they did about Watkins - but wonder-coach thought he could train the weaknesses out of them and mould them into a successful team. I’m not so sure he is such a wonder-coach given all the ‘nearly’ players acquired who have subsequently fallen into oblivion. 

I massively struggle with a midfield unit packed full of lightweights that he’s acquired. He now recognises, belated, he needs physicality and power. That for me, after 4 years, and lord knows how many midfield acquisitions is the most damming reflection on his tenure.

I’ll suspect you'll raise me Joe and Bobby. But they were here before he arrived and I suspect their improvement had more to do with their own Summer of independent training than LJ - no doubt their autobiography’s will eventually shed light on that. 

Anyhow, LJ is not going anywhere soon, so it’s a case of getting behind the Club and hoping for the best. Forgive me for being a more passive supporter though, as I was in the dying days of the soul destroying Pulis and SoD regimes. 

 

Great post. 

I’ll add that Afobe is a massive loss but with a squad the size of ours you’ll surely have 2 players for every position??? Surely?!?! 

We don’t, we’ve loads of bits and pieces and “clubs in the bag” all of which is stunting the progress of whatever the academy might or might not have to offer. 
 

if you include those on loan (Paterson, Taylor) then we’re about 10 too many experienced players - yet one injury to a key player can’t be replaced. 
 

In the unlikely event of a managerial change, we’ll have to give them loads of time. There’s a big job to do just sorting out this squad. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

Wilder should not be paired with Warnock as they are very different coaches.

 

Chris Wilder and Lee appear to be very different beasts. I remember reading that Wilder, on his arrival at Sheff Utd, tore down all the vacuous motivational quotes put up about the place by the previous coach/manager.

Imagine, if you will (as ridiculous as it seems) Wilder and Lee doing a job swap for a year: one would begin tearing down all the posters/nonsense, and the other would be going around every nook and cranny with blue tac and a pile of "if not you, then we'll recruit someone else, ok" (or whatever the one in the tunnel said) sheets of A4, desperately chasing that ever elusive 1%.....

 

[RedRock]

Run out of ‘likes’ but the above two post are 100% correct. 

Wilder is of the ‘old school’ variety. Compare and contrast the two Clubs fortunes over the last few years, us with probably more riches, an established Academy, stability, a better squad of players on entry to the Championship and with what should have been a massive bonus ... the new stadium bounce... all advantages frittered away. 

Disappointing to say the very least. 

I hope come May I’ll be eating my words... that LJ will be secured on a new 10 year contract as we head into the Premiership. I doubt it very much. .. but we will see.

[petehinton]

46 minutes ago, Prinny said:

 

 

So I want you guys to explain Benik Afobe. That's the evidence, this season, that LJ knows EXACTLY what the problem is, and knows how to fix it.

I'm not claiming he's perfect, I think the squad is assembled incorrectly, I say that in the post I made, but I have evidence to suggest that he CAN fix the issue.

2 years, 4 years.. well we've improved league position year on year which suggests... that he knows how to fix problems. That's why we should give him the opportunity to do it, because we've seen him do it.

If you're saying he doesn't know, and can't fix it. Explain Benik Afobe.

Genuinely try to explain why you think he can't fix problems with the league table improvements year on year, and the evidence from this season as the back drop. Because that is what you'd have to do to sack him as the board. You'd have to truly believe he can't do the things you've literally seen him do.

Playing devils advocate, if he knew an Afobe-esq player was always the answer - why so late? Why sign Fam? Why sign Eisa? Why sign Engvalll?

We also shouldn’t have our entire play pinned on one player. An Afobe injury/suspension/rested shouldn’t mean the entire style of play falls apart. Not one part of that is healthy for any squad. We’ve spent insane amounts of money & shouldn’t have it all falling apart because of a a single loan striker getting injured meaning jt totally transforms us (negatively) 

[ScottishRed]

10 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Chris Wilder and Lee appear to be very different beasts. I remember reading that Wilder, on his arrival at Sheff Utd, tore down all the vacuous motivational quotes put up about the place by the previous coach/manager.

Imagine, if you will (as ridiculous as it seems) Wilder and Lee doing a job swap for a year: one would begin tearing down all the posters/nonsense, and the other would be going around every nook and cranny with blue tac and a pile of "if not you, then we'll recruit someone else, ok" (or whatever the one in the tunnel said) sheets of A4, desperately chasing that ever elusive 1%.....

 

That is actually a really interesting concept, imagine if they did swap jobs today and were NOT allowed to buy in January- so work with what you have until May.

I wonder where both clubs would end up.

[chinapig]

4 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Run out of ‘likes’ but the above two post are 100% correct. 

Wilder is of the ‘old school’ variety. Compare and contrast the two Clubs fortunes over the last few years, us with probably more riches, an established Academy, stability, a better squad of players on entry to the Championship and with what should have been a massive bonus ... the new stadium bounce... all advantages frittered away. 

Disappointing to say the very least. 

I hope come May I’ll be eating my words... that LJ will be secured on a new 10 year contract as we head into the Premiership. I doubt it very much. .. but we will see.

Wilder is only old school to the likes of Danny Mills - i.e. pundits who knew nothing about him but decided he must be a long ball merchant.

Wilder's peers, including LJ, knew better when they voted him coach of the year. Suddenly, pundits and journalists who neither know nor care about the EFL are discovering how good he is, having written Sheff Utd off before a ball was kicked.

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Do you expect the team to be busier? 

The lack of discipline and work there is a consequence of the recruitment and lack of focus. An expected consequence .. Skill sets of players do not meet  busy easily collectively. Passengers are a theme out of possession.

Pressing, screening, shape etc it's lack is down solely to the Manager. The team is a reflection of Mr Johnson's ideals.. 

 

 

 

 

I agree to some degree.

However...I do think LJ is restricted in many ways when it comes to recruitment.

The Club...not him, have said we want young hungry players that we can develop, either keep, or sell on at a profit. We aren't going to be mainly buying the finished article.

We have done in a few places...Hunt, Williams, Kalas, Weimann, Rowe...as an example, they all have reached their pinnacle imo.

We don't have an experienced DM that is top 6 standard. We rely on Nagy ( totally new to the Championship ) and HNM ( an 18 year old the same experience as Nagy )

Smith is not the answer in this department. He's a good Professional, but not one that will make us top 6.

Josh and Odowda are absolutely pants at defending. Odowda is powder puff weak, mentally and physically and loses the ball too often.  Josh is great offensively but can't tackle for toffee. Both go missing when defending.n

Palmer is also weak defensively. Awful concentration...young, still learning. Makes massive mistakes...but can see a pass. He has more negatives to the team than positives. Again not the finished article.

Eliasson...fantastic offensively...again, weak defensively, poor concentration. Can tackle, but lacks understanding on where to be in shape etc.

Famara...imo, is absolutely pants at this level. Causes more problems than he's worth. Loses the ball to frequently, doesn't wwork hard enough when pressing or defending from the front line and can't find a run of any worth. His positional understanding is awful. Weimann spends more time covering him. So a man wasted.

Then you have Moore and Pierra...both very young and inexperienced, and asking a lot to be top 6. They will make mistakes.

Imo...the defenders we have are fine. It's the rest of the positions that are unbalanced for a top 6 side.

The balance of players screams mid table....because so many of them are so young and inexperienced at the level required. Or in Famaras case...he doesn't fit.

You can say it's a reflection of LJ...which is true, but to some degree it's down to recruitment philosophy.

We are so physically weak in midfield as well as mentally it's no surprise we are so inconsistent.

HNM, Nagy, Odowda, Josh, Palmer, Eliasson, DaSilva...it's like a group of Munchkins or elves :laugh:...not one of them is going to boss midfield physically.

 

 

 

 

[CityCiderEd]

1 hour ago, Prinny said:

So I want you guys to explain Benik Afobe. That's the evidence, this season, that LJ knows EXACTLY what the problem is, and knows how to fix it.

This comment really is clutching at straws! Afobe was a last minute signing that turned out well for us but there were plenty of planned signings that weren't so clever. As BA was only a loan player I doubt LJ even imagined how good he was for us.

[Tin Soldier]

I think that the Charlton debacle will be a defining moment as far as Johnson goes. It may take time but in effect I think he has had his time at City. This club needs to get back to playing decent football. I don’t really care if we lose a few games, the fact is that Johnson’s style of football is dead boring and lacks any entertainment value. It really is crap.

A large % of the support has turned against him this time. It is a good squad that any new coach/manager will inherit. They just need some direction from someone who knows what there best eleven is.

As for Johnson, well ........

[BTRFTG]

20 minutes ago, spudski said:

HNM, Nagy, Odowda, Josh, Palmer, Eliasson, DaSilva...it's like a group of Munchkins or elves :laugh:...not one of them is going to boss midfield physically.

You appear to have overlooked the majestic powerhouse that is the ghosting Marley Watkins....

Plays like he's dead, in chains and I haven't the Dickens why anybody would ever pay one penny piece for him. Utter humbug.

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

You appear to have overlooked the majestic powerhouse that is the ghosting Marley Watkins....

Plays like he's dead, in chains and I haven't the Dickens why anybody would ever pay one penny piece for him. Utter humbug.

I'd forgotten all about him :laugh:

Tbh...We are never going to know the full story when it comes to recruitment.

I've got a gut feeling not everyone has been LJ's signings. Based on what I've heard from people I trust. I got speaking recently to a lad that played for us in the Academy two seasons ago, ended up playing in Sweden, and has since packed in Football. He said he trained with Gustav...according to him it was an in house joke to how bad he was and common knowledge that LJ didn't rate him or want him.

You start to wonder.

[Cowshed]

37 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree to some degree.

However...I do think LJ is restricted in many ways when it comes to recruitment.

The Club...not him, have said we want young hungry players that we can develop, either keep, or sell on at a profit. We aren't going to be mainly buying the finished article.

We have done in a few places...Hunt, Williams, Kalas, Weimann, Rowe...as an example, they all have reached their pinnacle imo.

We don't have an experienced DM that is top 6 standard. We rely on Nagy ( totally new to the Championship ) and HNM ( an 18 year old the same experience as Nagy )

Smith is not the answer in this department. He's a good Professional, but not one that will make us top 6.

Josh and Odowda are absolutely pants at defending. Odowda is powder puff weak, mentally and physically and loses the ball too often.  Josh is great offensively but can't tackle for toffee. Both go missing when defending.n

Palmer is also weak defensively. Awful concentration...young, still learning. Makes massive mistakes...but can see a pass. He has more negatives to the team than positives. Again not the finished article.

Eliasson...fantastic offensively...again, weak defensively, poor concentration. Can tackle, but lacks understanding on where to be in shape etc.

Famara...imo, is absolutely pants at this level. Causes more problems than he's worth. Loses the ball to frequently, doesn't wwork hard enough when pressing or defending from the front line and can't find a run of any worth. His positional understanding is awful. Weimann spends more time covering him. So a man wasted.

Then you have Moore and Pierra...both very young and inexperienced, and asking a lot to be top 6. They will make mistakes.

Imo...the defenders we have are fine. It's the rest of the positions that are unbalanced for a top 6 side.

The balance of players screams mid table....because so many of them are so young and inexperienced at the level required. Or in Famaras case...he doesn't fit.

You can say it's a reflection of LJ...which is true, but to some degree it's down to recruitment philosophy.

We are so physically weak in midfield as well as mentally it's no surprise we are so inconsistent.

HNM, Nagy, Odowda, Josh, Palmer, Eliasson, DaSilva...it's like a group of Munchkins or elves :laugh:...not one of them is going to boss midfield physically.

 

 

 

 

The question was do you expect the team to be busier? I think that is a no. 

It's pretty basic. If you recruit players with little defensive intensity and put them in the. XI expect the team to display similar and error to be a consequence.

its not a question of big or small. Bristol City are not purchasing players collectively with aggression and intensity as keystone behaviours. 

Lee Johnson is involved in these  players recruitment, selection and development ... It is a reflection of his football.

 

 

[chinapig]

9 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'd forgotten all about him

Tbh...We are never going to know the full story when it comes to recruitment.

I've got a gut feeling not everyone has been LJ's signings. Based on what I've heard from people I trust. I got speaking recently to a lad that played for us in the Academy two seasons ago, ended up playing in Sweden, and has since packed in Football. He said he trained with Gustav...according to him it was an in house joke to how bad he was and common knowledge that LJ didn't rate him or want him.

You start to wonder.

The strategy is as you posted earlier. It's not about building a side over time to play in a defined way, with the aim of getting promoted without being financially rash. It is to sign, develop and sell on players at a profit. Duff punts like Gustav don't matter much to the club because the overall strategy is achieving what is required.

The man in charge of the strategy, and the de facto Head of Recruitment, is Mark Ashton. He refers to "my recruitment team" after all. He was voted Chief Executive of the year because he has been so successful in delivering the strategy. The Head Coach, whoever he is, works for Ashton.

Accepting all this to be the case and that the actual football is secondary, is the first step to peace of mind for us fans! 

 

[Chappers]

51 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree to some degree.

However...I do think LJ is restricted in many ways when it comes to recruitment.

The Club...not him, have said we want young hungry players that we can develop, either keep, or sell on at a profit. We aren't going to be mainly buying the finished article.

We have done in a few places...Hunt, Williams, Kalas, Weimann, Rowe...as an example, they all have reached their pinnacle imo.

We don't have an experienced DM that is top 6 standard. We rely on Nagy ( totally new to the Championship ) and HNM ( an 18 year old the same experience as Nagy )

Smith is not the answer in this department. He's a good Professional, but not one that will make us top 6.

Josh and Odowda are absolutely pants at defending. Odowda is powder puff weak, mentally and physically and loses the ball too often.  Josh is great offensively but can't tackle for toffee. Both go missing when defending.n

Palmer is also weak defensively. Awful concentration...young, still learning. Makes massive mistakes...but can see a pass. He has more negatives to the team than positives. Again not the finished article.

Eliasson...fantastic offensively...again, weak defensively, poor concentration. Can tackle, but lacks understanding on where to be in shape etc.

Famara...imo, is absolutely pants at this level. Causes more problems than he's worth. Loses the ball to frequently, doesn't wwork hard enough when pressing or defending from the front line and can't find a run of any worth. His positional understanding is awful. Weimann spends more time covering him. So a man wasted.

Then you have Moore and Pierra...both very young and inexperienced, and asking a lot to be top 6. They will make mistakes.

Imo...the defenders we have are fine. It's the rest of the positions that are unbalanced for a top 6 side.

The balance of players screams mid table....because so many of them are so young and inexperienced at the level required. Or in Famaras case...he doesn't fit.

You can say it's a reflection of LJ...which is true, but to some degree it's down to recruitment philosophy.

We are so physically weak in midfield as well as mentally it's no surprise we are so inconsistent.

HNM, Nagy, Odowda, Josh, Palmer, Eliasson, DaSilva...it's like a group of Munchkins or elves :laugh:...not one of them is going to boss midfield physically.

 

 

 

 

Spot on. If you look at our summer transfer activity, we signed 3 players who had been on loan, heaps on a midfielder who was never likely to have a great impact this season, a midfielder who had not played many games in 3 years, and no experience of English football, 2 lower league freebies and a decent keeper. Forgot Afobe, pacy, but injured. We lost a classy defender and a strong, solid, experienced, slightly limited midfielder. 
To me,  that looked more like a development season than a serious push. The problem for January is how do we offload players to afford to bring new ones in? Or do we accept our fate, and focus on development, with one eye on next season? Spending big could get us a 25% chance of promotion at best, and undermine our financial stability completely, at worst.

[Natchfever]

2 hours ago, Prinny said:

 

 

So I want you guys to explain Benik Afobe. That's the evidence, this season, that LJ knows EXACTLY what the problem is, and knows how to fix it.

I'm not claiming he's perfect, I think the squad is assembled incorrectly, I say that in the post I made, but I have evidence to suggest that he CAN fix the issue.

2 years, 4 years.. well we've improved league position year on year which suggests... that he knows how to fix problems. That's why we should give him the opportunity to do it, because we've seen him do it.

If you're saying he doesn't know, and can't fix it. Explain Benik Afobe.

Genuinely try to explain why you think he can't fix problems with the league table improvements year on year, and the evidence from this season as the back drop. Because that is what you'd have to do to sack him as the board. You'd have to truly believe he can't do the things you've literally seen him do.

Benik was a panic loan acquisition when the over long courting of Arsenal over Nkeitah went tits up. The two players appear rather different to me to be honest so I think LJ struck lucky (in the very short term) with Benik.

[petehinton]

43 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'd forgotten all about him

Tbh...We are never going to know the full story when it comes to recruitment.

I've got a gut feeling not everyone has been LJ's signings. Based on what I've heard from people I trust. I got speaking recently to a lad that played for us in the Academy two seasons ago, ended up playing in Sweden, and has since packed in Football. He said he trained with Gustav...according to him it was an in house joke to how bad he was and common knowledge that LJ didn't rate him or want him.

You start to wonder.

LJ has said a few times he has the very final say when it comes to every transfer coming in & out of the club 

[Natchfever]

18 minutes ago, chinapig said:

The strategy is as you posted earlier. It's not about building a side over time to play in a defined way, with the aim of getting promoted without being financially rash. It is to sign, develop and sell on players at a profit. Duff punts like Gustav don't matter much to the club because the overall strategy is achieving what is required.

The man in charge of the strategy, and the de facto Head of Recruitment, is Mark Ashton. He refers to "my recruitment team" after all. He was voted Chief Executive of the year because he has been so successful in delivering the strategy. The Head Coach, whoever he is, works for Ashton.

Accepting all this to be the case and that the actual football is secondary, is the first step to peace of mind for us fans! 

 

Do you not think that LJ gets the first and final say on player acquisitions ? My impression was Ashton gets a shopping list and goes get at the best price (apparently)

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, Natchfever said:

Do you not think that LJ gets the first and final say on player acquisitions ? My impression was Ashton gets a shopping list and goes get at the best price (apparently)

I believe LJ has more influence than he did initially, having pushed for that a couple of summers ago. If you check what Ashton says in interviews though you will see that the recruitment team works for him not for the Head Coach.

As I understand it LJ does not present any list as such, though he will say the kind of player he wants and even sometimes name names e.g. Webster. He won't necessarily get what he wants though, as in he wasn't given a replacement for Webster. He may also be handed a couple of punts he doesn't really want: which ones they are is pretty obvious.

That is the point in a way, it's a continental model, hence the job title being Head Coach not Manager. The kind of "big name" manager people crave is not likely to accept the limitations that involves.

[Prinny]

14 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Playing devils advocate, if he knew an Afobe-esq player was always the answer - why so late? Why sign Fam? Why sign Eisa? Why sign Engvalll?

We also shouldn’t have our entire play pinned on one player. An Afobe injury/suspension/rested shouldn’t mean the entire style of play falls apart. Not one part of that is healthy for any squad. We’ve spent insane amounts of money & shouldn’t have it all falling apart because of a a single loan striker getting injured meaning jt totally transforms us (negatively) 

You're making a claim about us spending a lot of money. In comparison to who? Please post where we are in terms of wage bill and footballing budget compared to our competition.

Why so late is very easy. We sold Webster very late. Nketiah turned us down very late. We're then in a rush to rejig the squad to make up for his loss by "upgrading" in several areas and by remaining compliant with FFP. Proving or disproving that he didn't know what was the problem is impossible. Except the evidence of him actually signing a guy who improved us dramatically exists. Which is far better than saying he didn't know, with no evidence. Right? That's the logic to go off. The factual evidence of him improving our league position year on year, with the combination of signing the player to IMO subjectively fix one of the problems of the team. IMO subjectively the biggest issue we have when taking the whole season as a challenge.

Now, should there be a back up player who can fulfil the same role and make sure that one person does not cause a collapse. Yes. And I've made that point many times. Now take into consideration the budget and you'll see that expecting like for like quality replacements is unreasonable. So who's the type replacement for Afobe? Well, guessing it was meant to be Antoine Semenyo. We should definitely get rid of people who believe too much in that guy. Bunch of clowns...

Your questions about other players ignore context and timing. I could answer the question by saying "to improve the teams league position, which is the ultimate goal of the coaching staff, and they were successful in that". In the two years of Gustav Engvall we went from 18th to 11th. So it's a great signing, of course it isn't.

So what is Lee Johnson's job this season? He says a successful season is playoffs. So if he fails without due cause he should be fired. Do you think we've failed already? I just challenge that viewpoint based on every year he's been here. What's different this year to last to expect differently?

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

6 hours ago, Olé said:

I have to say, I said exactly this last night.

I posed the question how does a team with

1. the undoubted talent and record investment in good players
2. the relentless detailed coaching Johnson is routinely praised for

seem to make such a ridiculous number of basic mistakes game after game, which to my eyes, certainly recently, is the biggest difference between us and opponents - give the ball away, don't close down player, missed tackle, missed finish, misplaced pass. It's endemic and while I know confidence is part of it, these are the basics we're mainly talking about.

It can't be because they're rubbish players because see: 1. It can't be they're not coached or prepared properly on what to do, see 2 (unless the whole Johnson coaching pedigree as widely reported is a myth). So just maybe the problem is they're over-coached, they are not able to think about the basics as they're too busy trying to execute a complex game plan.

I don't know if that qualifies as Occam's Razor but "over thinking things" seems to me to make more sense as an explanation for this team's propensity for mistakes, than anything else: I really don't accept that these are poorly recruited players (Nagy and Massengo both look worse than when we signed them). I also don't buy the idea another striker fixes this.

Really interesting Rob.  The notion of ‘over-coaching’ is fascinating and there might well be something there in terms of us losing our way.  There’s a noticeable anti-Academy feeling in grass roots football, and I know that the club that I’m involved with (which I won’t name) does its very best to dissuade families from accepting academy places for their kids, not least because of a feeling that league clubs are destroying the talent of many young players by over-coaching.  If you go to league club trials for 15/16 year olds you’ll often see academy boys looking stale and formulaic and being out-though and out-fought by boys coming in fresh from outside the academy system.  The FA currently believes that it’s all about coaching and that match play is far less important, and I get the feeling that this approach is beginning to affect the game at all ages.

[chinapig]

39 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Really interesting Rob.  The notion of ‘over-coaching’ is fascinating and there might well be something there in terms of us losing our way.  There’s a noticeable anti-Academy feeling in grass roots football, and I know that the club that I’m involved with (which I won’t name) does its very best to dissuade families from accepting academy places for their kids, not least because of a feeling that league clubs are destroying the talent of many young players by over-coaching.  If you go to league club trials for 15/16 year olds you’ll often see academy boys looking stale and formulaic and being out-though and out-fought by boys coming in fresh from outside the academy system.  The FA currently believes that it’s all about coaching and that match play is far less important, and I get the feeling that this approach is beginning to affect the game at all ages.

I tend to agree on Academies: too much too young imo.

Though Real Sociedad have an interesting approach:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/dec/24/real-sociedad-football-club-academy-la-liga

[Cowshed]

 

45 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Really interesting Rob.  The notion of ‘over-coaching’ is fascinating and there might well be something there in terms of us losing our way.  There’s a noticeable anti-Academy feeling in grass roots football, and I know that the club that I’m involved with (which I won’t name) does its very best to dissuade families from accepting academy places for their kids, not least because of a feeling that league clubs are destroying the talent of many young players by over-coaching.  If you go to league club trials for 15/16 year olds you’ll often see academy boys looking stale and formulaic and being out-though and out-fought by boys coming in fresh from outside the academy system.  The FA currently believes that it’s all about coaching and that match play is far less important, and I get the feeling that this approach is beginning to affect the game at all ages.

I hope that is out of context. No grass roots club should be  doing its best to tun kids away from academies. 

My family member has had an experience he will have for the rest of his life, and is pursuing his dream. No reputable club should try and prevent kids having that experience and opportunity.