Bristol City Women - WSL

[Phileas Fogg]

9 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

 

Why surely that’s what equality is? It wouldn't be right to not include the ladies with the men. So if I was comparing standards that’s what I believe? 

 

I think it's fairly futile comparing Women and Men's football. It's clear that Men's football is of a higher standard and that shouldn't be a surprise. If you judge women's football against men's football you'll always think it's a poor product. If you judge Bristol City Ladies against other women's teams then it's a fairer comparison and you'll probably enjoy the sport more.

Personally I don't really enjoy women's football as much as men's football so don't take much of an interest. But I recognise the pointlessness of making a direct comparison between the two. 

[Bs4Red]

27 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Smaller pitches and nets?

Jesus man, listen to yourself.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shrinking-goals-and-pitches-could-improve-women-s-game-dr022ptrx

She’s a few badges ahead of me but pretty sure this women’s credentials are good enough to listen too. Not sure you’d tell her to listen to herself.

[Carey 6]

27 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Smaller pitches and nets?

Jesus man, listen to yourself.

I believe Emma Hayes the current Chelsea womens manager is in favour of this. Wouldn't surprise me if a couple more were as well. 

https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/22/chelsea-women-manager-emma-hayes-urges-goals-made-smaller-womens-game-9640291/

Womens cricket boundaries are smaller, but then tennis courts aren't. I don't think it should be written off though. 

 

[Bs4Red]

1 minute ago, Carey 6 said:

I believe Emma Hayes the current Chelsea womens manager is in favour of this. Wouldn't surprise me if a couple more were as well. 

https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/22/chelsea-women-manager-emma-hayes-urges-goals-made-smaller-womens-game-9640291/

Womens cricket boundaries are smaller, but then tennis courts aren't. I don't think it should be written off though. 

 

I just posted the same thing. Unfortunately this person doesn’t want to talk about the benefits. Would rather just tell me to listen to myself. 

Personally think it’s logical, as she explain average height of a keeper is significantly smaller than men. 

Would give keepers a chance and stop some ridiculous goals I’ve seen in recent years 

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

I believe Emma Hayes the current Chelsea womens manager is in favour of this. Wouldn't surprise me if a couple more were as well. 

https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/22/chelsea-women-manager-emma-hayes-urges-goals-made-smaller-womens-game-9640291/

Womens cricket boundaries are smaller, but then tennis courts aren't. I don't think it should be written off though. 

 

That's an interesting article. Reading that, it makes sense. I think people's instinct is to see it as patronising - but after reading that rationale it's actually fairly logical. 

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, 054123 said:

I don’t understand your point.

When you watch the athletics, do you cheer on Dina Asher-Smith or do you just sit there and comment that men can run faster?

I fully expect a professional men’s team to beat a professional women’s team. I’m not saying it would happen every single time, but given the biological differences, you would think it likely. 

So what? I don’t watch my kids play football and just pass comment that ‘of course the U’16s would beat this lot’

Did you enjoy it? That’s all that matters.

I get that it feels ridiculous when in an effort to raise the profile of the game, it gets compared to men’s football. That’s unnecessary. You need to see past that and accept it and enjoy it for the sport that it is.

If you do, great. If not, that’s cool too. I don’t enjoy every sport.

 

Thanks @054123 for your comments. As I read the posts, I've been composing a reply with my opinion(s). You must be a mind reader.

I enjoy watching football at all levels from three year olds kicking a ball to and from Dad, or Mum, to World Cups with the cream at the very top.

Yesterday evening was an interesting contest especially as it allowed me to escape the two hours of drivel from Oprah and the upset royals. And above all, as it was a team named Bristol City, my club, a very good result.

[Silvio Dante]

Few thoughts:

- The changed dimensions to account for physicality is an interesting debate. What stuck out to me last night was not the technique being poorer as it wasn’t (The first and third goal were as good as the men have scored), but that both teams struggled to clear the ball because the purchase they got on clearances wasn’t good enough. That meant a lot of scrambling and less chance to use the technique!

- Salmon. She’s a bit good. IIRC we had Lauren Hemp who went to Man City and I don’t believe has kicked on, so hoping that ES sees that and stays with City, if they stay up 

- A thorny issue, but the team are much improved form wise under Beard. The logical thing to do would be to try and secure him full time, but disposing of Oxtoby on Mat Leave is a very difficult scenario to manage..,

All in all, a good way to spend a Monday night - entertaining, good goals, and a city win. 

[Baba Yaga]

Just watched the highlights, nice to see at least one BCFC get a win at Ashton Gate.  Great finish for the winning goal and after just making debut for England things are looking up for her. Quite a few teams dragged into the relegation battle now.

As for smaller goals if you look at the WSL the teams in the bottom half average less than one goal a game so I don't think it would make it a better spectacle unless other changes were also made. Its ok for the Chelsea manager (who average 3 goals a game) to say that but for teams like BCFC I am not sure it would make things better.

[054123]

20 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Thanks @054123 for your comments. As I read the posts, I've been composing a reply with my opinion(s). You must be a mind reader.

I enjoy watching football at all levels from three year olds kicking a ball to and from Dad, or Mum, to World Cups with the cream at the very top.

Yesterday evening was an interesting contest especially as it allowed me to escape the two hours of drivel from Oprah and the upset royals. And above all, as it was a team named Bristol City, my club, a very good result.

I enjoy football at all levels as well.

What annoys me is I feel there is an expectation that as a fan of say Bristol City men’s team I should also support the women’s game. Regardless of whether I do or not, nobody should have to.

Without wishing to derail the thread, there is a separate argument around not being able to have a nuanced conversation anymore and only being able to align yourself to an extreme of  a discussion. My wife played decent football, our friends both played for Cheltenham Town and they all think the pitch and goal dimensions should be smaller. They think it would help make for a fairer, more skillful game.

My mum is prime example of a latter day feminist who will constantly go on about the women’s game never being on the telly, but has also never watched a single game when it’s on . Apparently I should as I’m ‘the football fan’. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by 054123

[Unan]

10 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

 

Why surely that’s what equality is? It wouldn't be right to not include the ladies with the men. So if I was comparing standards that’s what I believe? 

 

Equity not equality 

Equality vs Equity

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Banned User

[GrahamC]

Just seen the goals & the technique on display was excellent, especially for Reading’s second & City’s 3rd.

Also a brilliant bit of refereeing to play the advantage for City’s second.

Of course the standard isn’t as high as upper level men’s football, but surely that’s irrelevant?

If I watched a League Two game on Sky I wouldn’t think that player isn’t as good as De Bruyne, would I?

[shahanshahan]

Following the success of the watchalong for the game against Bournemouth, Bristol City Supporters Club & Trust are joining forces with Bristol City Vixencast to host another watchalong for this Sunday's Conti Cup Final between Chelsea & Bristol City (not often you get any Bristol City team in a cup final!)

The game is live on BT Sport, but contact is being made with the club to see if BT Sport can stream the game on YouTube as well, like they do for other cup finals they have rights to.

Joining the watchalong will be guests of honour, and former Bristol City/Academy players Corinne Yorston & Grace McCatty.

The watchalong will start a 2:00pm with KO being at 2:30pm.

To register your interest, please email citywomen@bristolcitysupporters.org

[Basher Bones]

I watched the game and enjoyed it

I did think during the game that it would benefit from slightly smaller goals and maybe a slightly shorter pitch

However some of the technical skills on display were impressive including several of the goals, but it seemed to me the best players stood out more than they do in the men’s game.

I would suggest this is just a reflection of the stage of development of the women’s game and there is a lot more to come

 

 

[mozo]

11 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

Well I mean it was literally spoken about by Fifa so I don’t think I’m far off 

Last night I watched a game that was end to end attacks and finished 3-2. That's basically football at it's best!

Why would you change it when you're getting competitive, attacking football with no diving or shenanigans?!

I don't care I'm watching Premier league, non-league, women or kids, if it's a good game it's a good game. And of the team wears a Bristol City shirt they get my support.

[mozo]

Man U 3 - 0 Villa

Birmingham 0 - 4 Arsenal

Brighton 2 - 0 Spurs

Man C 1 - 0 Everton 

West Ham 0 - 2 Chelsea 

 

Based on the most recent results, why do they need smaller goals or smaller pitches? 

[Bs4Red]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

Man U 3 - 0 Villa

Birmingham 0 - 4 Arsenal

Brighton 2 - 0 Spurs

Man C 1 - 0 Everton 

West Ham 0 - 2 Chelsea 

 

Based on the most recent results, why do they need smaller goals or smaller pitches? 

I think it’s a good idea because of the physical differences and obviously the keeper being on average 5”5 would make a huge difference with smaller nets. Some of the goals keepers let in they can’t even get near. 

If the manager of Chelsea ladies and someone who people actually thought would be good as a manager of our club thinks it. 

I don’t understand why people who only watch football and have never studied the game or been involved in coaching etc would be saying it’s a ridiculous idea. 

She is someone with a position to have this opinion and I agree. But of course on here you can’t have a different opinion without people crying and telling you you’re an idiot. 

[mozo]

4 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

I think it’s a good idea because of the physical differences and obviously the keeper being on average 5”5 would make a huge difference with smaller nets. Some of the goals keepers let in they can’t even get near. 

If the manager of Chelsea ladies and someone who people actually thought would be good as a manager of our club thinks it. 

I don’t understand why people who only watch football and have never studied the game or been involved in coaching etc would be saying it’s a ridiculous idea. 

She is someone with a position to have this opinion and I agree. But of course on here you can’t have a different opinion without people crying and telling you you’re an idiot. 

Make the goals smaller and you'll see fewer goals scored - why would you do that when the number of goals are perfectly normal?

The issue in your mind is the keeper not being able to reach but that doesn't have negative consequences except that you don't like the look of it. 

Forget the article, think about it rationally.

[Bs4Red]

5 minutes ago, mozo said:

Make the goals smaller and you'll see fewer goals scored - why would you do that when the number of goals are perfectly normal?

The issue in your mind is the keeper not being able to reach but that doesn't have negative consequences except that you don't like the look of it. 

Forget the article, think about it rationally.

Have you read the article? 

I mean like do you not watch the goals and just laugh. 

I don’t think that goals make a great game, I’ve watched good 0-0s it’s your perception of football. 

Having studied for 7 or so years I enjoy watching the tactical side. Goals are great but there is another side to it

[054123]

34 minutes ago, mozo said:

Make the goals smaller and you'll see fewer goals scored - why would you do that when the number of goals are perfectly normal?

The issue in your mind is the keeper not being able to reach but that doesn't have negative consequences except that you don't like the look of it. 

Forget the article, think about it rationally.

You’d get even more goals with multi-ball over time

[mozo]

2 hours ago, 054123 said:

You’d get even more goals with multi-ball over time

That would improve any match

[Cowshed]

13 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

Have you read the article? 

I mean like do you not watch the goals and just laugh. 

I don’t think that goals make a great game, I’ve watched good 0-0s it’s your perception of football. 

Having studied for 7 or so years I enjoy watching the tactical side. Goals are great but there is another side to it

 The article states the average height of women in the UK is 5.3. That is not the average height of UK female goal keepers. The England Keeper Bardsley is 6.0 tall. 

In your last sentence you make a point about enjoyment and watching. That is not a coaching point. Implementing goal and pitch sizes would necessitate a huge overhaul of facilities. A impractical massive overhaul as experience and evidence shows within the age related phases in the male game those changes will not occur. At the U14 level kids play on adult pitches with adult goals because there were/are not the resources to support different. 

Age related phases are just that, the coaching and educational phases apply to both males and females, they are not phases solely based upon the physical but very much the psychological.

Males and females playing on the same sized pitches, using the same sized goals, using the same coaching methods makes logical sense. The female game to improve it further needs more equivalence to the male game not less. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Cowshed

[Robbored]

13 hours ago, 054123 said:

You’d get even more goals with multi-ball over time

Especially with the standard of women goalkeepers..............
 

 

[RedRock]

Don’t get the bit about reducing the size of goals at all.

We want more goals per game not less. In any event, since goal posts were invented the average men’s height has increased from around 5’5’’...so there’s an argument that men’s goals should be enlarged.

Nope ‘level playing fields’ same game, same wages, same competition. Equality. 

If they want their own separate woman’s leagues that’s fine ...  if so, base wages on income from gate receipts and sponsorships. Wasn’t it sometime pre-war when some women’s football drew crowds equal or in excess of those for men? Sure that women weren’t talking about cross subsidising income from their game with men’s then.

Stop whinging, you have a ‘product’ that is marketable, with a few advantages currently over men, like little play acting, more goals so be positive, don’t resort to playing the victim card, go out and promote it. 

 

[phantom]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Especially with the standard of women goalkeepers..............
 

 

Ironic you say that as it is widely recognised that there are a number of VERY good goalkeepers in the WSL, Sophie Baggaley being one of those.

I assume that you watch games?

[mozo]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Especially with the standard of women goalkeepers..............
 

 

Don't forget that the women's game is still in it's infancy compared to the men. Men's football has been a national institution for 150 years, whereas for females there has been a lack of access to, and general disapproval of, their participation. Now that the "it's a men's game" dinosaurs are dying out, female participation is growing, social norms are changing and standards are increasing with each decade that goes by. Supporters of the women's game get tetchy at the ridicule of standards because what would really help is positivity. 

I find that tennis is an interesting example of a sport where the physical attributes of the female participants actually enhances the sport. They can't rely on powerful serves to churn out aces and instead you see more rallies. Likewise, in football, the women's game might become more technical because it suits their attributes, but for that to happen we need there to be a society that encourages female participation and gives them the opportunities that men have.

[Super]

1 minute ago, phantom said:

Ironic you say that as it is widely recognised that there are a number of VERY good goalkeepers in the WSL, Sophie Baggaley being one of those.

I assume that you watch games?

I doubt he is interested in Womens Football......

[Robbored]

4 minutes ago, phantom said:

Ironic you say that as it is widely recognised that there are a number of VERY good goalkeepers in the WSL, Sophie Baggaley being one of those.

I assume that you watch games?

Occasionally if it’s England.

I’m probably in the minority here but women’s football doesn’t grab my attention in the same way that men’s football does.

I watched  quite a bit of City ladies v Reading on BT the other night and there are some skilled players but I found acres of space in both midfields that you just don’t see in the men’s game. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

8 hours ago, mozo said:

 

I find that tennis is an interesting example of a sport where the physical attributes of the female participants actually enhances the sport. They can't rely on powerful serves to churn out aces and instead you see more rallies. Likewise, in football, the women's game might become more technical because it suits their attributes, but for that to happen we need there to be a society that encourages female participation and gives them the opportunities that men have.

Cricket too. Because the bowlers can`t hurl it down at ninety miles an hour and the batters can`t smack it 120yds the emphasis is far more on technical skills like spin. It`s one of the reasons I enjoy watching women`s cricket.

[mozo]

10 hours ago, Cowshed said:

 The article states the average height of women in the UK is 5.3. That is not the average height of UK female goal keepers. The England Keeper Bardsley is 6.0 tall. 

In your last sentence you make a point about enjoyment and watching. That is not a coaching point. Implementing goal and pitch sizes would necessitate a huge overhaul of facilities. A impractical massive overhaul as experience and evidence shows within the age related phases in the male game those changes will not occur. At the U14 level kids play on adult pitches with adult goals because there were/are not the resources to support different. 

Age related phases are just that, the coaching and educational phases apply to both males and females, they are not phases solely based upon the physical but very much the psychological.

Males and females playing on the same sized pitches, using the same sized goals, using the same coaching methods makes logical sense. The female game to improve it further needs more equivalence to the male game not less. 

Maybe we could compromise by making the goals bigger in the men's game 

[Bs4Red]

2 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Cricket too. Because the bowlers can`t hurl it down at ninety miles an hour and the batters can`t smack it 120yds the emphasis is far more on technical skills like spin. It`s one of the reasons I enjoy watching women`s cricket.

Yes because I forgot they don’t bring the boundary in 20 odds yards in women’s cricket. 

Literally negates your point