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Joe Morrell - Perm to Luton Confirmed (Merged)


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8 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

He isn’t going to be a 10-15m player with Luton even with a good euros imo. He doesn’t have the goals or assists to be that type like a Brownhill did. We may need the funds now or to free up the wages now. Or the deal with Luton could mean we do not have to pay extras due for Bakinson(hypothetical).

Like I said, I like him and would prefer him staying but we have an offer for him and not for others. Maybe this frees up wages/convinces Walsh to sign a new deal. I don’t see it as high risk. He isn’t a teenager who won player of the season at Lincoln. He is almost 24 and has 4-5 games at this level. He doesn’t add goals or assists like Walsh would in theory. See how it goes

A midfielder should not just be judged on goals/assists so comparing him to Walsh is wrong. But if you want to compare the two last season Joe had 2 goals and 2 assists in league 1 while Liam had 3 goals and 4 assists, so the gap isn't that large. I never said Joe would be a 10-15 mil player but with Luton we probably won't even receive 1 mil for him. To me it would make more financial sense to loan him for another season and sell next summer when hopefully finances won't be so badly impacted by covid and clubs have seen him play at this level, could easily add a couple of million to his price tag and then get a sell on down the line.

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11 minutes ago, One Team said:

I thought he was supposed to be the future?

Whilst I get we have too many midfielders surely players like COD should be let go before him?

Yeah, but that means someone/team wants him, has made an approach and made an offer! 

Morrell is an asset that a club is prepared to do the above? Maybe COD will fall into that category in the next 24 hours!?

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On 11/10/2020 at 19:04, Leveller said:

As an aside, I’m a bit confused about these numbers being used. When I was younger and we used the 1-11 system, I got used to the two centre backs being 5 & 6. Number 4 was a midfielder, number 9 was a forward, assuming 442, the other striker was probably 10 and the other midfielders 7, 8 and 11. 

As you and downendcity have alluded to - the current fad for referring to midfielders as a "6" or "8" is just harking back to the old WM 2-3-5 formation when 8 was an attacking player who dropped into midfield to fetch and carry (Atyeo played as many games as an 8 as he did a 9) and the 6 was a more defensive player who basically sat in midfield. 

These days, labelling a more attack minded midfielder as an "8", and a more defensive minded one as a "6", is just a nod to the roles those numbers performed in the WM days.

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1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

Look at the league table.

Would you bring him in ahead of any of the other midfielders we have currently?

The fact that SOD gave him his one first team appearance (45 mins away in an LDV defeat) as a 16 year old tells part of the story, which oddly also saw Lewis Dunk partner Flint at centre back.

Since then, we have signed Backinson from Luton who might have just got lucky with the timing of his loan moves compared to JM and is in competition with him for a similar place in the side, but he is clearly likely to feature ahead of him, as at today.

Could be he goes on and has a great career, could be Wes Burns mk2.

I wasn't suggesting Morrell should be starting instead of Bakinson right now but I would certainly have Joe ahead of Massengo, Nagy and (sadly) Palmer in the pecking order. Those 3 are more dispensable, imo.

In addition, I'll be amazed if Bakinson can maintain his current standard for 46 games and Morrell seems ideal competition for that role - 2 players for every position and all that. I know Holden, and the tactical uber maestros on this board, have said Williams can cover CDM but, personally, I think it would be a waste to restrict him to a confined, defensive role when he has such all-action, all-round abilities.                    

I hope Morrell goes on to have a "better" career than Wes Burns (there's nothing "wrong" with Wes' career, tbf). I'm just amazed that, after so long at the club, with both club and player having shown significant committment to each other over the years (Morrell turned down Liverpool ffs!), we've now decided to let him go at the very point he's both ready and there's an opportunity to play him.

As others have said, I guess events have overtaken us - Bakinson's emergence, the need to offload midfielders, and so on.

"Events, dear boy. Events" to misquote Harold MacMillan.   

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18 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

A midfielder should not just be judged on goals/assists so comparing him to Walsh is wrong. But if you want to compare the two last season Joe had 2 goals and 2 assists in league 1 while Liam had 3 goals and 4 assists, so the gap isn't that large. I never said Joe would be a 10-15 mil player but with Luton we probably won't even receive 1 mil for him. To me it would make more financial sense to loan him for another season and sell next summer when hopefully finances won't be so badly impacted by covid and clubs have seen him play at this level, could easily add a couple of million to his price tag and then get a sell on down the line.

I am comparing for value purposes. Midfielders that lack goals and assists do not go for big money in most cases, especially at this level. I don’t see his value changing drastically over a season. There isn’t the track record there. Most similar midfielders move on at the end of their contracts like Korey Smith. It is why Ben Pearson at Preston hasn’t moved on. No one will pay a substantial fee for that type of midfielder in this league. I bring up goals and assists as that is where the money goes. Clucas, Hendrick, Brownhill. They have diverse games and add goals and assists on top of it. Morrell is not that type of player imo. 
 

The fee may not be huge and the savings may not be great. That said it is pure profit as he was from the academy. Also, it is another one we do not need to give a pay rise to because he would be looking for a much larger contract having broke into the Wales squad. It isn’t ideal but is the situation we find ourselves in now. We have 4 midfielders with uncertain futures and will feature very little this season as it stands. There is an offer on the table for one of the 4. It does us no good keeping someone that isn’t going to play.
 

As for a loan, I wouldn’t be against it. I just don’t see it as something that will raise his value. Also, it is looking like DH will be here for more than this season. Never got the impression DH was really looking forward to using JM. That is an outside perspective for sure but if his value won’t rise and DH thinks he is backup at best then why not sell now? We always protect ourselves with sell ons and other clauses. I don’t see a downside to it personally. 

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On 13/10/2020 at 13:22, downendcity said:

When some of us were younger we were used to 5 being the centre half, 2 & 3 right& left backs, 4&5 right and left halves, 8 & 10 inside right & left, 7 & 11 right & left wing and 9 centre forward. 

2 number 5s?  Cunning 

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1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

I’m not sure that’s clear at all.

More likely he’s an asset we can get our desired value for. 

He rates him lower than the other midfielders we have. 

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4 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

It's all very well people saying "why not CO'D/Nagy/whoever?" but clubs have got to want them at a price we can work with.

I'd rather Morrell stay over a few others, but it's a question of timing and circumstance.

Spot on.

As for the “a few others will be gone by Friday” look at the Eliasson & likely Morrell fee, we are having to make huge cuts on what we would have expected a year ago.

Can’t see any others going myself, especially when they find out what the likes of Palmer & COD are earning...

Edited by GrahamC
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3 minutes ago, BetterRedthenBlue said:

Silly decision by the club to let him go, he'd offer us something different to most of our midfielders. 

I'd have him 4th in line for midfield level with Brunt. 

And £1m as well its an absolute steal for Luton imo. 

That’s all fine and well but Morrell wants to be playing at the Euros next summer. 
He won’t if he remains 4th in line for the whole season. 

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14 minutes ago, Betty Swallocks said:

That’s all fine and well but Morrell wants to be playing at the Euros next summer. 
He won’t if he remains 4th in line for the whole season. 

Yes and that is a Very big driver for the player. A club in our division want him, we get some cash to help with cash flow (half the clubs in the EFL are in trouble as we know) and a very sizable sell on to ensure we keep an interest in the player. None of the above is perfect, but its the time we live in.

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22 minutes ago, Betty Swallocks said:

That’s all fine and well but Morrell wants to be playing at the Euros next summer. 
He won’t if he remains 4th in line for the whole season. 

 

2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Yes and that is a Very big driver for the player. A club in our division want him, we get some cash to help with cash flow (half the clubs in the EFL are in trouble as we know) and a very sizable sell on to ensure we keep an interest in the player. None of the above is perfect, but its the time we live in.

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

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1 hour ago, BetterRedthenBlue said:

Silly decision by the club to let him go, he'd offer us something different to most of our midfielders. 

I'd have him 4th in line for midfield level with Brunt. 

And £1m as well its an absolute steal for Luton imo. 

May I ask what you think he brings that we can't get from our other midfield players? 20 months ago I would have seen him as the natural successor to Korey, but I think we have others that are ahead of him now. I don't see what he has as a USP.

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I'll be disappointed to see him go without getting a real go of it here.

It does seem like he's unlikely to get much game time with the amount of CM options we have and he's well beyond a development loan now.

Hope we get a good deal with a hefty sell on. Probably the right thing for all parties when everything is considered.

Ironically the young midfielder we took from Luton thats burst into the team this season is in part, why he's moving on.

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2 hours ago, One Team said:

I thought he was supposed to be the future?

The thing is that neither the player or the club want him to reach the stage where his future is behind him.

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, I really hoped his chance would come this season.  Pre-season the injury to Walsh looked favourable for him, e.g. one bit of the competition gone for the early weeks of the season.

Even Joe Williams signing wasn’t an issue for me.

But the Brunt signing and then the emergence of Bakinson, which happened with Joe on international duty, then getting a calf strain, shows there are no certainties in football, and things change very quickly.  Bakinson jumped over Massengo too...it’s been a rapid rise.

I know little about this actually, I don’t tend to ask about these kind of things, unless I’m told.

Good luck to him, Jones is Welsh, so he’ll be keen for Joe to do well.  At his stage of his career, Euros next summer, I don’t think he can wait for a chance here..

Got to admit, this is what I find a bit disappointing about this.

No disrespect to Brunt and I know I'm being unduly harsh but I feel a 35 year old veteran who is not going to be a regular starter blocking a local lad from getting regular game time is something I hoped we were moving away from. I know that this isn't really fair - Vyner, Moore, Bakinson and Semenyo are all getting chances so it is hardly as if we have abandoned our young players - but I can't help feeling really disappointed Morrell hasn't at least had a chance. 

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5 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Got to admit, this is what I find a bit disappointing about this.

No disrespect to Brunt and I know I'm being unduly harsh but I feel a 35 year old veteran who is not going to be a regular starter blocking a local lad from getting regular game time is something I hoped we were moving away from. I know that this isn't really fair - Vyner, Moore, Bakinson and Semenyo are all getting chances so it is hardly as if we have abandoned our young players - but I can't help feeling really disappointed Morrell hasn't at least had a chance. 

Morrell is behind Bakinson, Joe Williams and probably even Massengo in the position he is most likely to get picked for Wales. I don’t think Brunt has much bearing in this at all. 

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19 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

I think at this stage I would rather see Joe Morrell go and keep Liam Walsh.

We are overloaded on midfielders and if that's the choice that has to be made then so be it.

 can i ask why? i’d let walsh go as well, he’s not going to get a look in either. remember the clamour to play him when he signed? we did and he was miles out of his depth, not sure one league one loan turns him into some kind of perlo!

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9 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Got to admit, this is what I find a bit disappointing about this.

No disrespect to Brunt and I know I'm being unduly harsh but I feel a 35 year old veteran who is not going to be a regular starter blocking a local lad from getting regular game time is something I hoped we were moving away from. I know that this isn't really fair - Vyner, Moore, Bakinson and Semenyo are all getting chances so it is hardly as if we have abandoned our young players - but I can't help feeling really disappointed Morrell hasn't at least had a chance. 

Yep, I totally get the Brunt signing for experience and his playing ability (he still has a cultured left foot)...and probably the way he will enforce standards on and off the pitch, but I do wonder how many minutes he will get?  I’m happy to trust Holden on this signing, but I see it as a blocker for players, not just Joe.

3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Funny how lots don’t want him to go because he’s allegedly amazing yet he’s going to Luton.  

Because football is so black and white isn’t it?  Very few (if any) are saying he’s amazing, they (me included) are saying he’s good enough to compete for minutes in this City team.  Football has too many dynamics to paint your attempt to sound clever. Unfortunately at this time, City have too many midfielders.

By your “logic” I might argue he must be brilliant, because another team actually want to buy him, unlike several other players!

Luton are 5th by the way!

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  • elhombrecito changed the title to Joe Morrell - Perm to Luton Confirmed (Merged)

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