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I think it'd going to be interesting to see how he reacts , is he going to follow the Lee model he was well used to and make a lot of changes some quite random or will he stick with what he's trying to do with maybe just a bit of  tweaking of mid field, i am hoping the later as it will show he's got a plan and knows where he wants to go,

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The worrying thing is I can’t think of one player who had a decent game. We have seen it before in LJ’s reign but if we have any aspirations about top 6 then we cannot see that again. All teams have bad games but no shots on goal at home in inexcusable and that late free kick summed it up. 2 questionable refereeing decisions have cost us of course but the ease with which Warnock tactics totally dominated a team supposedly high on confidence was alarming.
 

Others will have taken note. Tyreeq has been great but nullifying him was all they needed to do to stop our movement and impose their physicality in midfield. He is going to be a great player but is naturally tactically naive and not used to the relentless nature of the Championship . A spell on the bench will do him no harm but much depends on the fitness of Walsh and Williams and whether Brunt can offer an alternative. After the start we’ve had Saturday now assumes a much greater importance as to our ambitions going forward.

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29 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Changes rely on options, we don't have too many at the moment. 

CENTRE DEFENCE
Mawson has to be a massive doubt, Baker long term, Rowe unconvincing, so the only left footed player with defensive experience is Brunt.
WINGBACKS
Be a big call to change both, I'd give DaSilva a start, Rowe is great to have on the bench. Probably play Sessignon in the following game just because I don't like too many changes in one go.
MIDFIELD
Every week, Walsh is a week or two away. Williams was training on grass, which we know means little. HNM & Nagy must have upset Holden somehow, which leaves Brunt. 
ATTACK
Wells and Martin weren't great, but absolutely no service. I'd give Fam a game and give Martin a rest .

WB:

Not sure what his stats looked like but I was actually reasonably happy with Hunt. It would be DaSilva to come in for me.

Mid: 

The Walsh/Williams situation is so frustrating! It's mad that HNM and Nagy were left out because either of them would have been worthy of playing 30 minutes last night. Why have Brunt on the bench if he can't come on to help a poor midfield?

Attack:

Semenyo and Fam looked well off the pace when they came on.

How about we play Weimann up front for a bit of forward press v Swansea and put a proper midfielder in midfield (any of the above!)

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Following a question about tiredness Dean said in post match that he absolutely did not have time for that argument. He brushed it off almost irritated. I thought that was a very good response. He was annoyed with some of his players which parallelled what a lot of us fans were saying. Clearly a below par performance. 

However, when they analyse it in the cold light of day they may come to a partially different conclusion; namely that Boro snuffed out the threat not least by nullifying the two City wing backs. 

You may come to a final conclusion, therefore, that Dean should have spotted this and changed it. Perhaps some will say he did regardless it was too late.

The mistake by Moore was unfortunate, nothing more, and while statistically it lost City the game I doubt we would have scored anyway such was the error in not changing a formation.

In summary, while Dean has an absolute right to be annoyed with the overall performance there is reason to think a formation change would have helped. Adding two strikers for two strikers was not a formation change other than, one might argue, enabling more long balls. That's the oldest 'change' in the book admirably dealt with by most Warnock teams of the past and present.

I don't expect to see wholesale changes. In fact Dean may leave it exactly as it is save for a forced change at the back. 4 wins out of 6 does not require much further scrutiny for now. He's done very well and is well in credit.

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13 hours ago, Redrascal2 said:

That is what really gets me. Yet another manager and we hope he will learn from mistakes. And I hope he does. But it would be nice  one day if we appointed a manager that had learnt before he becomes our manager. But then again he wouldn't be cheap then would he.

Thank Christ. I'd had "someone predictably whinge that we've gone for the cheap option" on my  First Defeat Bingo Card and hadn't managed to cross it off until now. 

HOUSE!

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13 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

Did anyone seriously expect us to be in top six this season?

This was always going to be a season for regrouping whoever came in as Head Coach 

Think in terms of three seasons.

Plusses so far are a commitment to stability in selecting a team and giving young players a chance. Additionally, some of our young talent are cutting it in lower leagues, like Nurse this evening.

And we have two fine Assistant Coaches.

Anything above 12th at season’s end will be ok in my opinion

 

 

I get the very strong impression that the manager, assistant coaches, CEO, Owner and players do. 

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10 minutes ago, mozo said:

WB:

Not sure what his stats looked like but I was actually reasonably happy with Hunt. It would be DaSilva to come in for me.

Mid: 

The Walsh/Williams situation is so frustrating! It's mad that HNM and Nagy were left out because either of them would have been worthy of playing 30 minutes last night. Why have Brunt on the bench if he can't come on to help a poor midfield?

Attack:

Semenyo and Fam looked well off the pace when they came on.

How about we play Weimann up front for a bit of forward press v Swansea and put a proper midfielder in midfield (any of the above!)

Can't argue with any of that. My only point will be that we will play Wells whatever and that would mean having no "big" man up front. Now I loved us with Neville and Riley as a front 2, but I can't see us playing with no real target man.

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2 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

It's not the defeat that hurts. Over a lifetime, a team wins one, draws one and loses one.

It's the manner of defeat that is seriously concerning.

Monotonous passes across the back without any pace. Easy for Boro to press.

Little creativity in midfield. Did we have a midfield there?

No service to front men except long balls lumped anywhere in the vain hope that we could get lucky.

Holden came in promising a more attacking style of play. This was back to the wasted two previous seasons of Johnson. And how did DH hope to change the game by replacing Martin and Wells with like for like?

So what's different? We aren't going anywhere like this.

The long ball is an accepted tactic for breaking a high press. It’s not pretty but it is a numbers game. With Martin, Wells up top and Weimann and Paterson ( the second ‘ t ‘ is silent) attacking the second ball we should have been more affective. 
 

For me what was most striking was the difference in energy levels between us and Boro . They were all over us and, just like the start at Barnsley, we didn’t know how to cope. That needs addressing.

I dare say we’ll have one or two fresh faces in the starting lineup on Saturday. 
 

 

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56 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Thank Christ. I'd had "someone predictably whinge that we've gone for the cheap option" on my  First Defeat Bingo Card and hadn't managed to cross it off until now. 

HOUSE!

Glad to fill up your card. What did you win a dvd of last night's game!!!

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2 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

It's not the defeat that hurts. Over a lifetime, a team wins one, draws one and loses one.

It's the manner of defeat that is seriously concerning.

Monotonous passes across the back without any pace. Easy for Boro to press.

Little creativity in midfield. Did we have a midfield there?

No service to front men except long balls lumped anywhere in the vain hope that we could get lucky.

Holden came in promising a more attacking style of play. This was back to the wasted two previous seasons of Johnson. And how did DH hope to change the game by replacing Martin and Wells with like for like?

So what's different? We aren't going anywhere like this.

I wouldn’t use the word monotonous, I would use “necessary”.  Boro’s shape was excellent and we couldn’t penetrate through the MF3.  Our problem was when we did create the little bit of space from moving it across the pitch and back, we squandered it with a poor pass, not necessarily from the back 3.

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah I kind of mean over the 90 minutes. Its probably the one game we deserved to lose. Arguably forest  game, but then we did play well first half. 

Thinking about it Boro didn't really have many chances last night. And we did have one sitter and a clear pen. No doubt they were the better side though.

Boro shaded it last night, enough to deserve to win? You could argue either way. 0-0 or 1-1 (penalty?) would seem to be 2/3rds the fair result.  But you could argue the other way for some of our games too.  Fine margins? Where have I heard that before!!  Most games are tight(ish) certainly for City.

1 hour ago, winsaw said:

I think it'd going to be interesting to see how he reacts , is he going to follow the Lee model he was well used to and make a lot of changes some quite random or will he stick with what he's trying to do with maybe just a bit of  tweaking of mid field, i am hoping the later as it will show he's got a plan and knows where he wants to go,

I don’t think he needs to change anything than personnel for Swansea.  With those changes in personnel you get a different “flavour” anyway.

If he went with (not saying he will):

                                 Bentley

Sessegnon / Vyner / Kalas / Moore / Dasilva

              Massengo  / Brunt / Weimann

                      Semenyo / Martin

the only real difference is the dynamic of the MF3 and perhaps the channel options that Wells might give you.  But the fundamentals are all still there.

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Let's be honest...how many teams in this division would expect to be top 6 playing inexperienced top 6 level players like Max, Moore, Vyner, Bakinson and Semenyo. 

All of them have done fantastically well...but at top level, if you make a mistake, which they will, you get punished.

Take away the two individual errors in the last two games, Vyner and Moore and points would be different.

How many managers in this league are expected to be top 6 whilst being expected to play youngsters that don't have the top 6 level of experience?

Imo...we shouldn't expect top 6.

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6 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

We looked flat whereas Boro pressed liked their lives depended on it. 
 

A draw would have been a fair result no one could argue if it had ended up 0-0 or 1-1.
 

For those who complained about our gamesmanship v Barnsley I said we should play fair when officials and opponents play fair with us.

IMHO it was a stonewall penalty for TB  and Boro time wasted and fouled throughout the match. 

Totally agree.

Was good to see their goalie get a card.  

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15 hours ago, Northern Red said:

I like this. Clearly not happy with what he's seen and no attempt to make excuses or try and pretend that it was better than everybody thinks it was.

Refreshing to see the guy in charge looking as angry as I'm feeling after that lame performance.

The look that says "I'm gonna sort this sh**"

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15 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Refreshing to see the guy in charge looking as angry as I'm feeling after that lame performance.

The look that says "I'm gonna sort this 

You can imagine the dressing room...

"Pato you miserable worm, I'm going to replace you with a turd and I'll probably get more creativity. Taylor, I'm going to taser your balls until your eyes pop out. At least then we'll know you're concentrating. Nakhi, I'm going to shoot you out of a cannon over the Lansdown stand and maybe you'll land in the same post code as the ball that you shanked in your only shot of the game, you useless cretin! Andi...good running today lad."

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32 minutes ago, mozo said:

You can imagine the dressing room...

"Pato you miserable worm, I'm going to replace you with a turd and I'll probably get more creativity. Taylor, I'm going to taser your balls until your eyes pop out. At least then we'll know you're concentrating. Nakhi, I'm going to shoot you out of a cannon over the Lansdown stand and maybe you'll land in the same post code as the ball that you shanked in your only shot of the game, you useless cretin! Andi...good running today lad."

Richard O’Donnell has asked with goalmouth he will get the best view from. 👀

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8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I wouldn’t use the word monotonous, I would use “necessary”.  Boro’s shape was excellent and we couldn’t penetrate through the MF3.  Our problem was when we did create the little bit of space from moving it across the pitch and back, we squandered it with a poor pass, not necessarily from the back 3.

Boro shaded it last night, enough to deserve to win? You could argue either way. 0-0 or 1-1 (penalty?) would seem to be 2/3rds the fair result.  But you could argue the other way for some of our games too.  Fine margins? Where have I heard that before!!  Most games are tight(ish) certainly for City.

I don’t think he needs to change anything than personnel for Swansea.  With those changes in personnel you get a different “flavour” anyway.

If he went with (not saying he will):

                                 Bentley

Sessegnon / Vyner / Kalas / Moore / Dasilva

              Massengo  / Brunt / Weimann

                      Semenyo / Martin

the only real difference is the dynamic of the MF3 and perhaps the channel options that Wells might give you.  But the fundamentals are all still there.

Thanks for your comments Dave, but the emphasis from me is that the ball between our back three should be hit with some speed to enable us to berak free of the 'Boro press. Instead they were slow and very predicatable. Hence the Boro press worked at treat.

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I’m pretty sure we’ll see changes for Saturday. I’d personally pair Bakinson with Nagy in midfield and rest Andi, though I don’t think that’s what will happen. Regardless, Dean knows this squad well and I trust him to make the right calls on the day. 

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1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

Thanks for your comments Dave, but the emphasis from me is that the ball between our back three should be hit with some speed to enable us to berak free of the 'Boro press. Instead they were slow and very predicatable. Hence the Boro press worked at treat.

Fair comments CA.  I noted that around the 25 minute mark (for about 10 or so minutes) we moved the ball a bit quicker and I thought we’d turned the corner.  I tweeted along the lines “we are getting into this”.   Vyner chipped balls over the press to Mawson missing out Moore, Bentley got the ball to Vyner quickly, and I thought “here we go”.  It was short-lived unfortunately.

I also noticed that Weimann and Pato swapped over in an attempt to shake off Morsy, but only for about 5 minutes before swapping back.

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On 20/10/2020 at 21:48, Numero Uno said:

He can easily make five or six changes after tonight and the players dropped could have no complaints. We need someone to help Bakinson in the centre of the park and personally I would have dropped Moore after that mistake but with Mawson injured he probably can’t do it. I would also be tempted to start Semenyo as a little kick up the backside to Wells.

Dropping Moore after making a mistake is exactly what LJ would have done i.e. thrown him under the bus, and he was roundly criticised on here for doing just that.

Perhaps the players have started to believe their own publicity following the excellent start to the season and have become too complacent, thinking that all they have to do is turn up and the result will follow. If so, then DH needs to make one or two changes, if only to make the players realise that no ones place is safe and on the basis that those coming in will be fired up, wanting to prove a point and looking to grab the opportunity.

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9 hours ago, downendcity said:

Dropping Moore after making a mistake is exactly what LJ would have done i.e. thrown him under the bus, and he was roundly criticised on here for doing just that.

Perhaps the players have started to believe their own publicity following the excellent start to the season and have become too complacent, thinking that all they have to do is turn up and the result will follow. If so, then DH needs to make one or two changes, if only to make the players realise that no ones place is safe and on the basis that those coming in will be fired up, wanting to prove a point and looking to grab the opportunity.

I certainly agree that in all likelihood LJ would have dropped Zac Vyner after the goal on Saturday rather than telling him to wake himself up and giving him another shot. However, the error by Taylor Moore was catastrophic, another level, not just a bog standard mistake or lack of concentration. I can think of many managers who would teach their young player a harsh lesson after doing that. I can also think of quite a few players who would have had a few not so kind words to say to him, apology or not, in the immediate aftermath of that game. But it's gone now, water under the bridge, and I do think Moore will play on Saturday whatever happens and hope that he is able to react in the same manner that Vyner did to his error at the weekend.

We as fans have to accept, though, that a necessary evil of playing promising players like Vyner, Moore and Bakinson is that these things do happen.

On your other point I think Holden seems to have a policy of the shirt is yours until you show me otherwise (I'm happy with that tbh although some prefer squad rotation) and, as a result, we may see a couple of adjustments in the midfield/forward areas on Saturday in addition to the obvious incoming of Kalas at Centre Half.

Edited by Numero Uno
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