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Whats the real Reason Holden was appointed?


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27 minutes ago, Robbored said:

 

It makes no difference which level any club is at. Promotion from within can have distinct advantages, one of which the stability that SL desires.

It can. But it’s not a guarantee. Every appointment is a risk and our track record of internal promotion is far from great. 

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Bottom line is that DH said what those appointing wanted to hear. That made it the “easy” rather than necessarily the “cheap” option. That’s often how interviews go in many walks of life.

However when appointing a manager or Head Coach the CV is the critical part. What have you achieved elsewhere? Demonstrate where you have had real success, not just a few wins as a caretaker at this level. That was the bit that was lacking from the process.

The “5 pillars” may have gone but the club’s model remains very similar, and it’s not a guarantee of success.

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I think playing the youth was a big part of it. Knowing the players would have helped. I imagine the other candidates just didnt impress so much in the interviews.

Problem with the youth thing is, Bell or Edwards coming on for 5-10 minutes when we are losing I doubt does a lot for their development.

It all helps of course. But Holden could say I have put X amount of academy players in the squad, and brought on some too.

But I don't think that helps their development as much as loans would. 

To be fair he has got Vyner, Bakinson and Semenyo playing very well. That is a big positive from this season. They should only get better and already playing well at championship level.

I think Holden has done a decent job, but like Johnson, for some reason starts positively and gone too negative. Millwall game was ridiculous. And first half of Preston game, we were playing against a team that concede loads and we just seemed to want to keep it 0-0 and probably thought we would score at some point against a Preston side that concede goals.

2nd half got it right and were the better team, creating better chances. Do that from the start and I would have fancied us to win it. 

Lots of injuries clearly is a big reason for what we are seeing. If any other club had 9 first team squad players unavailable at the same time and we saw their fans slating their manager, then we'd probably be thinking how can their manager cope with all those injuries!

Holden might not be using it as an excuse, but doesn't mean it's not a good reason for us not being higher in the league and playing better football.

I think missing Dasilva is massive, I think especially when playing wing backs we have so little on the left side without him.

Mawson obviously a big loss, though I do think Vyner has done very well. It is probably Weimann and Paterson who we have missed most. They were so key to how we played earlier in the season.

I do think Holden is making mistakes though. Even with all these injuries I expect to see better. If he continues with this 352 then I don't see much improving.

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52 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The ‘boot room’ approach is a model that worked fantastically well at Liverpool back then. A model or approach is all it is but with DH getting promoted from within suggests a similar approach from City.

It makes no difference which level any club is at. Promotion from within can have distinct advantages, one of which the stability that SL desires.

No it doesn't! They key difference is the success. With the Liverpool model, the success made it justifiable. We are a middling Championship club, it's not a valid comparison at all. 

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4 hours ago, One Team said:

I don’t think there really is a ‘cheap’ option; he will still be on several hundred k a year. Cheaper than LJ perhaps, but he’s not doing it for free.

For me the one and only reason is that he is a “yes” man to Ashton and SL. 

Definitely probably a yes man. However what is big money. If he’s on say 400 K a year that’s nothing if we paid for a real manager at 800K a year and we were in the top 3 of the league week in and week out. The status quo of recent seasons would be a blast in the pass and we would all be on a high.

the point is the board put a manager in that was relatively cheap to gain some stability but the board decision shows that they have little minds and need to broaden their horizons.

its always a COYR ,s for me but this season I’m afraid is all over which is totally disappointing. 

Love to hear from the DH dreamers on this and they would probably blame injuries.. 

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Holden is the cheapest option not in terms of his own personal salary but the budget that he would be happy to work with. Of course he is a yes man aswell - like any other line of work when you are given your first big break you are willing to bend over backwards to firstly get the job and you normally carry on in that vein - football management is no different IMO.
 

Obviously he said all the right things in the interview aswell.. ‘’im happy to work within said budget’’ ‘’im also happy to bring through as many academy players as i can’’ etc etc.. the bloke knows full well what the club and the board wants going forward and he played right up to it to get the job.

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We couldn’t have someone come in and disrupt the Bristol City cosy club. We needed someone happy to work within the structure / empire established by the CEO / Director of Football / Head of Recruitment. A “yes” man appointed by said CEO / Director of Football / Head of Recruitment to go with all the other “yes” men / women in senior roles at the club who have been appointed during his tenure. That way no one will dare question the CEO / Director of Football / Head of Recruitment. 

Edited by SuperRed
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Why was he appointed?

  • Because no manager worth their salt would work under Ashton
  • Because appointing someone from the outside would've cost more in transfer fees
  • Because of the "direction of travel" he wants us to go in
  • Because he was "the outstanding human"

But don't worry, he wasn't appointed because of the financial effects of the pandemic and the PL is the goal. Cough cough. 

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in summary, and other posters have said the same, he interviewed the best***.

Of course with that you could question whether the interviewers were up to the job.

I had no problem with Holden’s appointment, but I don’t think anyone could come out and say we did a global search and DH was the best choice.  That’s just MA spin.  Would’ve been much better to say something along the lines of there were others out there with more experience, etc, but their job demands were too high, or they didn’t match the ethos, or whatever else.

The bit I can never get my head around is that the process went along the lines of:

- application

- filter

- initial chat / mini interview with 10+

- more interviews with 3 or 4

- appointment

At what point was Hughton unprepared because if he was, why didn’t they filter him out after the first chat?

I can certainly imagine Hughton thinking this isn’t the club for him.

(*** gave the answers the interviewers liked)

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

in summary, and other posters have said the same, he interviewed the best***.

Of course with that you could question whether the interviewers were up to the job.

I had no problem with Holden’s appointment, but I don’t think anyone could come out and say we did a global search and DH was the best choice.  That’s just MA spin.  Would’ve been much better to say something along the lines of there were others out there with more experience, etc, but their job demands were too high, or they didn’t match the ethos, or whatever else.

The bit I can never get my head around is that the process went along the lines of:

- application

- filter

- initial chat / mini interview with 10+

- more interviews with 3 or 4

- appointment

At what point was Hughton unprepared because if he was, why didn’t they filter him out after the first chat?

I can certainly imagine Hughton thinking this isn’t the club for him.

(*** gave the answers the interviewers liked)

We don’t know the Hughton bit is even true though, do we?

It is really easy these days to leak this sort of stuff afterwards to a journalist & it then becomes “fact”, this government literally currently does this on a daily basis.

Hughton may or may not have been the right choice but what is obvious is the decision made wasn’t made on track record or achievement, but a set of criteria which appear to be unique and let’s be honest, didn’t remotely stand up to serious scrutiny at the press conference when Holden was appointed.

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What some posters are overlooking is the guidelines set down my SL. Namely promotion but having to sell your better players pretty much every window and not many, if any experienced managers would be prepared to adhere to them - that’s what happened to SC who got the job but eventually reneged having agreed at interview to follow SLs strategy.

DH would have been 100% aware of what the job entailed having worked as LJs assistant and seen first half what expected and that clearly gave him a huge advantage at interview - along with the stability that SL wants.

 

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36 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

We don’t know the Hughton bit is even true though, do we?

It is really easy these days to leak this sort of stuff afterwards to a journalist & it then becomes “fact”, this government literally currently does this on a daily basis.

Hughton may or may not have been the right choice but what is obvious is the decision made wasn’t made on track record or achievement, but a set of criteria which appear to be unique and let’s be honest, didn’t remotely stand up to serious scrutiny at the press conference when Holden was appointed.

No, I was poo-poohing that notion, by saying if he was really unprepared why didn’t we filter him out earlier.

Edited by Davefevs
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23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

in summary, and other posters have said the same, he interviewed the best***.

Of course with that you could question whether the interviewers were up to the job.

I had no problem with Holden’s appointment, but I don’t think anyone could come out and say we did a global search and DH was the best choice.  That’s just MA spin.  Would’ve been much better to say something along the lines of there were others out there with more experience, etc, but their job demands were too high, or they didn’t match the ethos, or whatever else.

The bit I can never get my head around is that the process went along the lines of:

- application

- filter

- initial chat / mini interview with 10+

- more interviews with 3 or 4

- appointment

At what point was Hughton unprepared because if he was, why didn’t they filter him out after the first chat?

I can certainly imagine Hughton thinking this isn’t the club for him.

(*** gave the answers the interviewers liked)

Ahhhh the Hughton unprepared rumour (Not your rumour I appreciate Dave) ............. Does he strike you as somebody so unprofessional to do that 

And don’t forget that all those interviewed were told that all signings and sales were MAs remit .......


Those still blaming all ills at Ashtons door amaze me - Do they really think SL and JL jump to his tune

Or does MA jump to theirs .........
 

I would suggest that MA might throw his opinion in but it is SL , via JL , and increasingly , JL himself that has the major decision making power


FWIW Personally my gut feeling is that DH was a JL choice

MA is a decent administrator , but is also a (highly paid)  ‘puppet’ / ‘front man’ who will follow the party line and say what the Lansdown’s want him to say

What is clear is that , setting aside administration , SL , JL and MA have little football knowledge / credibility between them 

Add a new learning coach with a professional career to date that is limited and the reality is there is no one in power at BCFC with a football pedigree 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Ahhhh the Hughton unprepared rumour (Not your rumour I appreciate Dave) ............. Does he strike you as somebody so unprofessional to do that 

And don’t forget that all those interviewed were told that all signings and sales were MAs remit .......


Those still blaming all ills at Ashtons door amaze me - Do they really think SL and JL jump to his tune

Or does MA jump to theirs .........
 

I would suggest that MA might throw his opinion in but it is SL , via JL , and increasingly , JL himself that has the major decision making power


FWIW Personally my gut feeling is that DH was a JL choice

MA is a decent administrator , but is also a (highly paid)  ‘puppet’ / ‘front man’ who will follow the party line and say what the Lansdown’s want him to say

What is clear is that , setting aside administration , SL , JL and MA have little football knowledge / credibility between them 

Add a new learning coach with a professional career to date that is limited and the reality is there is no one in power at BCFC with a football pedigree 

 

 

See my post above yours.

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50 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

in summary, and other posters have said the same, he interviewed the best***.

Of course with that you could question whether the interviewers were up to the job.

I had no problem with Holden’s appointment, but I don’t think anyone could come out and say we did a global search and DH was the best choice.  That’s just MA spin.  Would’ve been much better to say something along the lines of there were others out there with more experience, etc, but their job demands were too high, or they didn’t match the ethos, or whatever else.

The bit I can never get my head around is that the process went along the lines of:

- application

- filter

- initial chat / mini interview with 10+

- more interviews with 3 or 4

- appointment

At what point was Hughton unprepared because if he was, why didn’t they filter him out after the first chat?

I can certainly imagine Hughton thinking this isn’t the club for him.

(*** gave the answers the interviewers liked)

To add to this, and another thing I think is an outright lie, is Ashton said they him and JL interviewed the 3 finalists ‘5 or 6 times’. 
 

Now, either they have just stupid and think that that sounds rigorous and acceptable/sounds like they worked really hard. Or, they’re stupid to think that the SAME two people need to speak/interview someone on at least 5 different stages before making a choice?

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5 hours ago, Chappers said:

At a guess, continuity, quality and ideal choice in times of Global uncertainty.it’s not normal times, we have a long injury list, and we are finally looking at our own youth players as the future. This type of transition season was inevitable at some time, no great problem really as I can’t see normality returning next season, and who wants a PL season with limited fans and no away trips?

Closest answer to the truth in my opinion. It's just a shame that:

a) the club can't be up front about it and you have to work it out for yourself.

b) we can't do a "transition season" and play a nice drop of proper football, now and again like QPR do, at the same time.

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53 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

 

What is clear is that , setting aside administration , SL , JL and MA have little football knowledge / credibility between them 

Add a new learning coach with a professional career to date that is limited and the reality is there is no one in power at BCFC with a football pedigree 

 

 

Ain't that the truth...........

Edited by Numero Uno
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Another DH/MA/SL opportunity to bash thread. 

Why am I so unsurprised.

How do we solve a problem like Bristol City? 

Stop creating drama around each individuals version of what the club should be where it should go and why after 20 years ish theSL is bad discourse should be consigned to the dustbin. 

If these things were that awful, ala Glaziers and united then a break away would have happened by now. 

It hasn't, yet here we are going through the same thing different manager each and every time we don't win 100 on the bounce. 

It's not discussion any more it's repeated mantra and conditioning, until fan x gets what they want to be sated at the expense of everything else. 

Holden got the job, he's our manager til the next one and the next one. 

Some will be more successful, some less so. 

Enjoy the ride instead of recycling 

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