How long has Pearson got left?

[Waconda]

3 minutes ago, Colemanballs said:

I'm by no means in the Pearson out camp, but I do doubt that Luton's squad should be 20 points better than ours.

Correct 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Waconda said:

Yep our squad is better than Lutons, ask any professional coach.

The difference in performance and points gained is virtually all down to the coaching, training, tactics, man management, team selection.

Less cyber world football fanalyst and more "real world" football study.

What we have is a blinkered view of how good some of our players are.

Those players we deem to be so good can’t do it week in week out, which most likely means they aren’t as good as you think.

Please don’t resort to insults either.

 

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

What we have is a blinkered view of how good some of our players are.

Those players we deem to be so good can’t do it week in week out, which most likely means they aren’t as good as you think.

Please don’t resort to insults either.

 

No insult a suggestion because you state that Lutons squad is better than ours.

Something isn't right, I suggest you watch more actual live football, coaching sessions etc.

What we have is a blinkered view on how good our current management team and coaching set up is.

[hertsexile]

I believe Pearson is doing a good job with limited resources. Times are tough in football at the moment and cash flow in most clubs in the championship is tight unless you have parachute payments. The development of our young players under Pearson has been good to watch. 
Given time I am sure Pearson will develop a squad worthy of challenging for a top six place. 
 

[JoeAman08]

49 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Quick thing, cant remember the thread, nor the poster, but putting it here. 

Someone said that Bentley coming back into the side has messed up our game. 

Bents has been on fine form since his return, so not getting where the issue is

Id disagree and say it's James's return that has messed things up Scott has been naff since, and it's utterly messed the pivot or busy bees of our counter attack. 

Not sure what he adds tbh. 

I didn't see much pre Xmas, but post he's had one good game and that's it. 

Not seen it myself either. Preferred King when fit. Not that it is great either way but James here another 1?2? seasons. Not looking smart business. We didn’t need a James or King. Still lacking that holding midfielder. NP has mentioned this recently which fills me with less confidence in what he wants to recruit. 

 

13 minutes ago, Waconda said:

Well that certainly makes things clear.

All makes sense now.

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It does doesn’t it. Team in 4th vs team in 18th, 20 points between them.

You gonna tell me you think City’s squad is better?

no wonder you put everything negative down to Pearson. All clear now. 

I think there is an in between here. If you looked at the squads on paper the day before the first game, I think many opposition fans outside the two clubs would say city have a stronger squad. Certainly more names championship fans are used to seeing. 
 

Luton have recruited much better though for championship football in 2022. They have generally signed young strong players with something to prove. That makes a massive difference. 
 

Now should it be 20 points and 16 places or whatever it is? Imo no. One manager is maximising his squad while another is quite frankly underachieving. Set aside staying up, points totals and positions. Why have we continually leaked goals? Why have continually dropped points after the 90th min? Why have we not won 2 games in a row in the entire spell under NP? You can 100% place blame on the squad but not most of it in my opinion. This has been a massive failing from the coaching staff.

I can’t help but feel we are a dying side that has lucked out this season with points deductions and teams coming up with no income from the previous season. It should not feel this bad. There is a good championship XI in that squad but NP and co have not found the solutions. Getting too much credit for using young players. Couldn’t drop Atkinson fast enough. As soon as James is back Massengo is gone. Scott was can’t miss and does him no favours moving him everywhere 2-3 times a game. Semenyo was already established like Massengo. Benarous and Bell a small handful and Cundy because Kalas got injured. 
 

I could keep going on but I don’t feel NP is the answer. We had enough to be in that mix from 3-16. We just recruited poorly with what little we had and did not play a brand of football that suits the championship. Now looking like we will need to rely on another season of Weimann playing to a level he never has before. Martin staying fit for 40 games. Atkinson Cundy and Tanner making a massive jump and fending off interest for Scott and Semenyo. Fear for 22/23

[Waconda]

2 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Not seen it myself either. Preferred King when fit. Not that it is great either way but James here another 1?2? seasons. Not looking smart business. We didn’t need a James or King. Still lacking that holding midfielder. NP has mentioned this recently which fills me with less confidence in what he wants to recruit. 

 

I think there is an in between here. If you looked at the squads on paper the day before the first game, I think many opposition fans outside the two clubs would say city have a stronger squad. Certainly more names championship fans are used to seeing. 
 

Luton have recruited much better though for championship football in 2022. They have generally signed young strong players with something to prove. That makes a massive difference. 
 

Now should it be 20 points and 16 places or whatever it is? Imo no. One manager is maximising his squad while another is quite frankly underachieving. Set aside staying up, points totals and positions. Why have we continually leaked goals? Why have continually dropped points after the 90th min? Why have we not won 2 games in a row in the entire spell under NP? You can 100% place blame on the squad but not most of it in my opinion. This has been a massive failing from the coaching staff.

I can’t help but feel we are a dying side that has lucked out this season with points deductions and teams coming up with no income from the previous season. It should not feel this bad. There is a good championship XI in that squad but NP and co have not found the solutions. Getting too much credit for using young players. Couldn’t drop Atkinson fast enough. As soon as James is back Massengo is gone. Scott was can’t miss and does him no favours moving him everywhere 2-3 times a game. Semenyo was already established like Massengo. Benarous and Bell a small handful and Cundy because Kalas got injured. 
 

I could keep going on but I don’t feel NP is the answer. We had enough to be in that mix from 3-16. We just recruited poorly with what little we had and did not play a brand of football that suits the championship. Now looking like we will need to rely on another season of Weimann playing to a level he never has before. Martin staying fit for 40 games. Atkinson Cundy and Tanner making a massive jump and fending off interest for Scott and Semenyo. Fear for 22/23

Agreed

[Waconda]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What we have is a blinkered view of how good some of our players are.

Those players we deem to be so good can’t do it week in week out, which most likely means they aren’t as good as you think.

Please don’t resort to insults either.

 

Interesting read -

The Dangers of Football Statistics - The False NineThe False Nine

Should be used for support info and sieving of potential recruits only.

Never to lead.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Waconda

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, JoeAman08 said:

If you looked at the squads on paper the day before the first game, I think many opposition fans outside the two clubs would say city have a stronger squad. Certainly more names championship fans are used to seeing

Perhaps, but that's just a case of "I haven't heard of player X therefore he can't be as good as another player I have heard of" rather than an opinion based on knowledge of the qualities of the players concerned.

Plus of course it doesn't follow that having better individuals guarantees having a better team. Our problem in recent years has been signing lots of individuals rather than building a team.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Luton have recruited much better though for championship football in 2022. They have generally signed young strong players with something to prove. That makes a massive difference. 

Yep, as Joe Royle said - recruitment, recruitment, recruitment.

Our recruitment has been sub-standard for too long.  The financial situation has not made it easy at all, narrows the pool….but there are nuggets out there.  We need to find them, more of them.

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, as Joe Royle said - recruitment, recruitment, recruitment.

Our recruitment has been sub-standard for too long.  The financial situation has not made it easy at all, narrows the pool….but there are nuggets out there.  We need to find them, more of them.

Now this I agree with.

Do we have a recruitment department currently ?

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, Waconda said:

Interesting read -

The Dangers of Football Statistics - The False NineThe False Nine

Should be used for support info and sieving of potential recruits only.

Never to lead.

Sorry???  What are you insinuating?

That i unearth players by looking at data?  Ha ha.  Nice one.  Completely wrong.

You were trying to insult me.  Thought so, Thanks.

[Waconda]

3 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Perhaps, but that's just a case of "I haven't heard of player X therefore he can't be as good as another player I have heard of" rather than an opinion based on knowledge of the qualities of the players concerned.

Plus of course it doesn't follow that having better individuals guarantees having a better team. Our problem in recent years has been signing lots of individuals rather than building a team.

Yes agreed but I was talking about squad not team.

Our team has obviously been far worse than Lutons.

For example playing a 19 year old centre forward at right back will not help the team but there were other options in the squad.

Players "banished" from the squad therefore no help to the team.

 

[Waconda]

Just now, Davefevs said:

Sorry???  What are you insinuating?

That i unearth players by looking at data?  Ha ha.  Nice one.  Completely wrong.

You were trying to insult me.  Thought so, Thanks.

No insult at all, a difference of opinion on the value of stats in a professional sport.

You post unchallenged stats on here constantly and some are relevant and some are not.

Don't get upset because I have a different opinion to you, if you feel insulted I apologise.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Waconda said:

No insult at all, a difference of opinion on the value of stats in a professional sport.

You post unchallenged stats on here constantly and some are relevant and some are not.

Don't get upset because I have a different opinion to you, if you feel insulted I apologise.

You don’t really read my posts then is all I can say.

[DaveInSA]

It's all got a bit heated on here hasn't it

Here's my perspective.

Luton are better in every way than us. The have a balanced squad, who play to a system, are well drilled, and play as a team.

We have, a bit part team of talented individuals, who are inconsistent and prone to individual errors.

@Davefevs, you have a stat or two I am sure. I'd love to know how many points we have lost due to individual errors, and also how many points we could have lost on xGoals from individual errors. For example, HNM back pass against Middlesborough at home, should clearly have been a goal, but a magical save from Bents.

Bottom line is the players don't have the mentality and they're not a cohesive unit. Refer to the point above and the number of late goals we've given away.

We also talk about progress. Losing 3-2 away at a team of premier league players, with a toe in the door is an improvement on losing 2-0 at home and being comprehensively outplayed?

 

 

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, Waconda said:

Now this I agree with.

Do we have a recruitment department currently ?

You already know the answer to that, so I’m trying to work out the relevance of your question?

[DaveF]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You already know the answer to that, so I’m trying to work out the relevance of your question?

Surely you've learnt not to bite at the trolling posts by now...

[JoeAman08]

2 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

So what is the good championship 11 you describe . Where would your 11 finish , to make it a good 11 . 
 

What recruitment options were presented last summer ? 
 

Playing 3 at the back is not what is needed at championship , that is true , but how could we have played a 4 ? Who ? Please explain .
 

Multiple opposition managers have clearly stated we are now a substantially different proposition compared to earlier in the season .  

That is nice of them to say but we still ship 2-3 goals a game. We are still often second to 50/50 balls. We still don’t force opposition mistakes. 
 

There is a myriad of different options we could have used at times this season. NP has rarely experimented looking for an answer. Kalas hasn’t been used at RB where we have had problems. Are 2 of Cundy Klose and Atkinson not enough to play in a 4? Pring has flaws but is your standard championship player. Lacks a bit of technique and perfect positioning. Makes up for it with pace, power and workrate. Kalas Klose Atkinson Pring looks a solid back 4. 
 

In midfield, one of our best performances was a midfield of Benarous, Scott and Massengo against Coventry. I’ll concede we lost but we haven’t seen that trio since which I find strange considering Coventry are quite the side to perform as well as they did. The provided the effort and more importantly the athleticism to get around the pitch. All while being very composed on the ball. Ideally we’d have a true defensive midfielder instead of all 3 but we don’t. Instead we seem insistent on making Matty James work despite him not being able to get around the pitch. 
 

Up front, we had one of our best spells of the season in terms of performances in January. If I am not mistaken it coincided with Martin moving to the bench. Also perhaps O’Leary going in goal. Yet, he had one good performance against Cardiff(after weeks off) and has been an ever present since. Why have we not tried Wells more often? From everything coming from the club, he is training well. Requesting some u23 minutes and being a good influence. Sometimes I feel like he has been cast aside because the previous regime gave him a wage which NP disagrees with. Feel like it is a stubborness. 
 

So there you have it

O’Leary

Kalas Klose Atkinson Pring

Benarous Scott Massengo

Weimann Wells Semenyo

 

Hell, idk if that gets us more or less points. My point is we haven’t tried many different things. The squad was here to be used for an entire season. NP was reluctant to try things to get us out of ruts. He has not used the squad to 100% of its capabilities which imo is inexcusable for a side barely picking up a point per game

[Waconda]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You already know the answer to that, so I’m trying to work out the relevance of your question?

It's a serious question that you might have the answer for, I know there was a limited one last Summer. 

Has it been improved to your knowledge, are there plans in place for the Summer.

As you state "our recruitment has been sub standard for too long".

 

[JoeAman08]

32 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Perhaps, but that's just a case of "I haven't heard of player X therefore he can't be as good as another player I have heard of" rather than an opinion based on knowledge of the qualities of the players concerned.

Plus of course it doesn't follow that having better individuals guarantees having a better team. Our problem in recent years has been signing lots of individuals rather than building a team.

Oh I agree but it is why there will be people who say we should definitely be better than a Luton or Millwall. I never thought this was a promotion squad but not sure even the most optimistic could see Luton or Blackburn occupying top 6 spots for a large portion of the season.
 

My point is outside 2 teams at the top and really 2-3 teams at the bottom, everyone is in the same mix really. For us to be adrift from the majority of the division I think is a failure. Mind you the gap is only 7-8 points. I think performance wise however we have been even further than that in reality. Hope that made sense 

[GrahamC]

21 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

It's all got a bit heated on here hasn't it

Here's my perspective.

Luton are better in every way than us. The have a balanced squad, who play to a system, are well drilled, and play as a team.

We have, a bit part team of talented individuals, who are inconsistent and prone to individual errors.

@Davefevs, you have a stat or two I am sure. I'd love to know how many points we have lost due to individual errors, and also how many points we could have lost on xGoals from individual errors. For example, HNM back pass against Middlesborough at home, should clearly have been a goal, but a magical save from Bents.

Bottom line is the players don't have the mentality and they're not a cohesive unit. Refer to the point above and the number of late goals we've given away.

We also talk about progress. Losing 3-2 away at a team of premier league players, with a toe in the door is an improvement on losing 2-0 at home and being comprehensively outplayed?

 

 

You’re right.

I also wonder what the reaction would have been on here if we’d brought in Cameron Jerome last summer…

Recruitment is tricky & for me since Keith Burt left us it seems to have been either badly mismanaged by Ashton & his cronies or completely neglected.

I cannot believe Pearson is happy with our current recruitment set up but whether he is or not, someone at the club at the top, whether that is the owner, chairman, CEO or manager (or all 4 of them) seem unwilling to remedy it.

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, Waconda said:

It's a serious question that you might have the answer for, I know there was a limited one last Summer. 

Has it been improved to your knowledge, are there plans in place for the Summer.

As you state "our recruitment has been sub standard for too long".

 

Depends how you define a recruitment team. Nigel confirmed again the other day that we don't plan to bring in a head of recruitment.

He also rather pointedly said that he wasn't part of the recruitment team. Quite what to make of that, if anything, I don't know.

[Sheltons Army]

51 minutes ago, Waconda said:

No insult a suggestion because you state that Lutons squad is better than ours.

Something isn't right, I suggest you watch more actual live football, coaching sessions etc.

What we have is a blinkered view on how good our current management team and coaching set up is.

You really are an arrogant plum arn’t you

I think anyone reading Daves analysis and football points would realise he has a significant more understanding about the game than you do , a lot of it down to lengthy analysis work etc 

Do you have much of a background in the game ?

[Waconda]

2 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Depends how you define a recruitment team. Nigel confirmed again the other day that we don't plan to bring in a head of recruitment.

He also rather pointedly said that he wasn't part of the recruitment team. Quite what to make of that, if anything, I don't know.

He has to be part of the recruitment team, surely ?

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

You really are an arrogant plum arn’t you

I think anyone reading Daves analysis and football points would realise he has a significant more understanding about the game than you do , a lot of it down to lengthy analysis work etc 

Do you have much of a background in the game ?

Professionally, yes.

[chinapig]

Just now, Waconda said:

He has to be part of the recruitment team, surely ?

Watch the pre-match press conference, those were his very words. He didn't seem to like being asked about the subject. Which may be just him being grumpy (as if) or may be more significant. Who knows?

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, chinapig said:

Watch the pre-match press conference, those were his very words. He didn't seem to like being asked about the subject. Which may be just him being grumpy (as if) or may be more significant. Who knows?

Strange,

[frenchred]

Just now, Waconda said:

Strange,

Just Pearson distancing himself from any blame whatsoever.....................Again!

[Sheltons Army]

12 minutes ago, Waconda said:

He has to be part of the recruitment team, surely ?

Professionally, yes.

Please tell us more 

 

* You’re not Jon Lansdown are you

Edited April 3, 2022 by Sheltons Army

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I completely agree. 20 points, no way.  But I still think they have a better squad than us.

 

All about opinions, personally I think we have a much better squad than our league position suggests but there is obviously something amiss, I’ve made no secret out of the fact that I don’t rate Pearson and feel we would of been better off with managers who have gone to other clubs in the last nine months (Forest, Boro, PNE, Swansea) but we’ll never know, as I said it’s all about opinions 

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, harrys said:

All about opinions, personally I think we have a much better squad than our league position suggests but there is obviously something amiss, I’ve made no secret out of the fact that I don’t rate Pearson and feel we would of been better off with managers who have gone to other clubs in the last nine months (Forest, Boro, PNE, Swansea) but we’ll never know, as I said it’s all about opinions 

Yes.