Stefan Bajic - Signing confirmed

[GrahamC]

4 hours ago, ORANGE500 said:

I think I've included his assists in my assessment of over 70 appearances in 3 seasons. If you think 1 or 2 suggests an  outstanding  performer that's up to you. 

Depends what you think his job is, I suppose.

I was pointing out that you said he had one assist & I could think of two off the top of my head.

I have never said he was “outstanding” & for what it’s worth have said a couple of times I’d sell him at the right price, but as that clearly hasn’t happened, I can see that it might yet be worth persevering with someone who isn’t even 21 yet (tomorrow, by the way).

[Logical-City]

18 hours ago, petehinton said:

20 years old and is coming straight in as new number 2 and to push Bentley out the team (or even replace him next season?). 
 

Max will be 26 by the time he comes back from his next loan, and has already had decent stints in the first team yet taken out the team again. 
 

Would be pushing for a permanent move away if I was Max, personally 

Correct I think it’s time to push Bentley out. There is somewhat of a love in with him but the facts are Brentford decided to let him go as they looked to progress there promotion aspirations.
Before the first lockdown and football stopped in 2020 Lee Johnson dropped him leading to an upturn in form with Mannepa taking his place.

Holden dropped him at a point for form.

Again last season Pearson dropped him leading to an upturn in our form.

I can’t remember a keeper which has been in goal during a period we have leaked goals for fun and has seen off 2 managers all 3 dropping him yet is still held in such high regard by supporters

I feel many of you are blinded by the Hollywood saves and miss the poor communication skills, kicking and weak palms on saves which have lead to many tap ins which could have been avoided over recent seasons.

The league positions and goals conceded point to this and management at Brentford and Bristol City have clearly identified it

Edited July 6, 2022 by Logical-City

[Mr Popodopolous]

Welcome Stefan.

What type of goalkeeper is he- ballplaying, old school...something else?

[bcfc01]

17 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Welcome Stefan.

What type of goalkeeper is he- ballplaying, old school...something else?

He's only 20 so still developing I suppose.

But his distribution surely can't be any worse than Bentley or O'Leary ?

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

He's only 20 so still developing I suppose.

But his distribution surely can't be any worse than Bentley or O'Leary ?

Well yeah- plenty of time on his side.

Bentley at Brentford had not bad distribution IIRC although that could have been down to how they played too- think a number of our players with questionable distribution for GK or passing in outfield in recent years have been affected by how we've set up tactically at times.

[bcfc01]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Well yeah- plenty of time on his side.

Bentley at Brentford had not bad distribution IIRC although that could have been down to how they played too- think a number of our players with questionable distribution for GK or passing in outfield in recent years have been affected by how we've set up tactically at times.

Bentley had a habit of holding on to the ball too long and then lumping it upfield only for it to come straight back at us. That wasn't tactical, it was his lack of confidence in playing out. He seems to have improved a lot in that respect. But his kicking is poor and can put the team under pressure  - either straight to the opposition or out of play. He really needs to work hard at that imo.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

56 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Bentley had a habit of holding on to the ball too long and then lumping it upfield only for it to come straight back at us. That wasn't tactical, it was his lack of confidence in playing out. He seems to have improved a lot in that respect. But his kicking is poor and can put the team under pressure  - either straight to the opposition or out of play. He really needs to work hard at that imo.

 

Think Brentford fans might have a different view in respect of his time there- although Raya as I say a superior option for them clearly.

Holding onto it too long and lumping it up field- well if you're outnumbered in CM or don't play out from the back that well as a team, it's not too surprising at times.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[ExiledAjax]

7 hours ago, Ian M said:

I mean it's entirely possible for him to speak with the same corporate mumbo-jumbo as Ashton but if he has no interest in taking the limelight then how can we ever know to dislike him? 

Keep it up!

He doesn't. He's much more straight talking.

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, Logical-City said:

Correct I think it’s time to push Bentley out. There is somewhat of a love in with him but the facts are Brentford decided to let him go as they looked to progress there promotion aspirations.
Before the first lockdown and football stopped in 2020 Lee Johnson dropped him leading to an upturn in form with Mannepa taking his place.

Holden dropped him at a point for form.

Again last season Pearson dropped him leading to an upturn in our form.

I can’t remember a keeper which has been in goal during a period we have leaked goals for fun and has seen off 2 managers all 3 dropping him yet is still held in such high regard by supporters

I feel many of you are blinded by the Hollywood saves and miss the poor communication skills, kicking and weak palms on saves which have lead to many tap ins which could have been avoided over recent seasons.

The league positions and goals conceded point to this and management at Brentford and Bristol City have clearly identified it

I don’t think Pete was suggesting pushing Bentley out because he isn’t good enough, more hopefully we have signed someone that can improve upon him.

Bentley is absolutely fine for where we are going, middle eight, top half.  Questions about whether he’s promotion capable, but he’s one of the players I’m pretty happy to have as first choice.  Would cost a lot of money to go and recruit someone like Michael Cooper, and expect him to be Champ-ready to replace Bents from day one.

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think Pete was suggesting pushing Bentley out because he isn’t good enough, more hopefully we have signed someone that can improve upon him.

Bentley is absolutely fine for where we are going, middle eight, top half.  Questions about whether he’s promotion capable, but he’s one of the players I’m pretty happy to have as first choice.  Would cost a lot of money to go and recruit someone like Michael Cooper, and expect him to be Champ-ready to replace Bents from day one.

I think Bentley is good enough to be part of a top 6 squad. For me he's not the player that takes a top 12 squad and elevates it to be top 6. However, with the right outfield players in front of him he's capable enough to be in a team that gets promoted.

As you say, it's also far too expensive to replace him with a keeper is absolutely better than him and is ready to be that exceptional player that elevates the rest of the squad.

 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I think Bentley is good enough to be part of a top 6 squad. For me he's not the player that takes a top 12 squad and elevates it to be top 6. However, with the right outfield players in front of him he's capable enough to be in a team that gets promoted.

As you say, it's also far too expensive to replace him with a keeper is absolutely better than him and is ready to be that exceptional player that elevates the rest of the squad.

 

Agree  

[Port Said Red]

7 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

When you say "decent looking" are you referring to his pretty face or his standard of shot saving?

I always believed that to be a City goalkeeper, one had to have enormous hands, have a slightly large belly and be about 5ft 10inches in old money; Gibbo and Cashley!

It's an area of the game that has changed so much really. I remember my old man being disgusted at large amounts of money being spent on goalkeepers in 70s 80s and 90s. "How much more can they do than a few of the blokes on the Downs?"

But now they have to be footballers and sometimes playmakers well as shot stoppers.

[Betty Swallocks]

6 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

It's an area of the game that has changed so much really. I remember my old man being disgusted at large amounts of money being spent on goalkeepers in 70s 80s and 90s. "How much more can they do than a few of the blokes on the Downs?"

But now they have to be footballers and sometimes playmakers well as shot stoppers.

Goalkeepers in football have changed massively in the last 20 years in the same way that wicketkeepers have had to in cricket. 
I might be wrong in my assumption but as Adam Gilchrist changed how wicketkeeping was viewed in the latter much like Manuel Neuer did for football. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Betty Swallocks said:

Goalkeepers in football have changed massively in the last 20 years in the same way that wicketkeepers have had to in cricket. 
I might be wrong in my assumption but as Adam Gilchrist changed how wicketkeeping was viewed in the latter much like Manuel Neuer did for football. 

I’ve got his wicky gloves (signed) at home from the Aussie Tour over here.

[Chivs]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve got his wicky gloves (signed) at home from the Aussie Tour over here.

Does Adam know about this?

[CiderJar]

On 06/07/2022 at 11:26, GrahamC said:

Depends what you think his job is, I suppose.

I was pointing out that you said he had one assist & I could think of two off the top of my head.

I have never said he was “outstanding” & for what it’s worth have said a couple of times I’d sell him at the right price, but as that clearly hasn’t happened, I can see that it might yet be worth persevering with someone who isn’t even 21 yet (tomorrow, by the way).

The "assists" metric is an interesting one isn't it? How many times did Massengo assist the assister? Maybe @Davefevs has the data? I remember a run from his own half at QPR where he crossed to Weimann in the six yard box who did well to set up Martin to score. Having said that I also remember a pass to the opposition at home from which they scored. But as you point out he is only just 21.

[KegCity]

Anyone using goals and assists to analyse a centre midfielder knows nothing about football. It’s boring to read.

Edited July 8, 2022 by KegCity

[Davefevs]

39 minutes ago, CiderJar said:

The "assists" metric is an interesting one isn't it? How many times did Massengo assist the assister? Maybe @Davefevs has the data? I remember a run from his own half at QPR where he crossed to Weimann in the six yard box who did well to set up Martin to score. Having said that I also remember a pass to the opposition at home from which they scored. But as you point out he is only just 21.

4 “second assists” according to Wyscout.

Cardiff 2, QPR and Barnsley.

15 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Anyone using goals and assists to analyse a centre midfielder knows nothing about football. It’s boring to read.

So agree….albeit I might not as far as “knows nothing about football”.

Out of interest, I spent some time last night looking at HNM’s stats compared to Flynn Downes who’s just gone to West Ham for £9m (plus add-ons).  He did get 1 goal last season, but the only real place he excelled over Han, was in his general passing stats (and receiving the ball too).  Of course, in Downes case, that is hugely weighted in his favour because of the style Swansea play.

Downes is 23, 2 1/2 years older than Han.  One goal and two assists didn’t scare West Ham off!!!

[1960maaan]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

4 “second assists” according to Wyscout.

Cardiff 2, QPR and Barnsley.

So agree….albeit I might not as far as “knows nothing about football”.

Out of interest, I spent some time last night looking at HNM’s stats compared to Flynn Downes who’s just gone to West Ham for £9m (plus add-ons).  He did get 1 goal last season, but the only real place he excelled over Han, was in his general passing stats (and receiving the ball too).  Of course, in Downes case, that is hugely weighted in his favour because of the style Swansea play.

Downes is 23, 2 1/2 years older than Han.  One goal and two assists didn’t scare West Ham off!!!

I think that anyone playing for us should have a massive caveat against his name

                          *playing in a poor passing side*

We haven't looked after the ball at all over the last 2/3 years. That must massively impact on MF metrics more than any others. Defenders still block, win headers. Forwards still score & assist, but if you have very poor possession numbers and you end up having to be more direct, those midfield stats aren't going to be great. 

 

[KegCity]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

4 “second assists” according to Wyscout.

Cardiff 2, QPR and Barnsley.

So agree….albeit I might not as far as “knows nothing about football”.

Out of interest, I spent some time last night looking at HNM’s stats compared to Flynn Downes who’s just gone to West Ham for £9m (plus add-ons).  He did get 1 goal last season, but the only real place he excelled over Han, was in his general passing stats (and receiving the ball too).  Of course, in Downes case, that is hugely weighted in his favour because of the style Swansea play.

Downes is 23, 2 1/2 years older than Han.  One goal and two assists didn’t scare West Ham off!!!

It’s like counting the clean sheets a striker was involved in. Almost entirely irrelevant and says nothing about the player. 

[Davefevs]

42 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I think that anyone playing for us should have a massive caveat against his name

                          *playing in a poor passing side*

We haven't looked after the ball at all over the last 2/3 years. That must massively impact on MF metrics more than any others. Defenders still block, win headers. Forwards still score & assist, but if you have very poor possession numbers and you end up having to be more direct, those midfield stats aren't going to be great. 

 

When I prep a “stats-pack” for Harry and his Scouting Group, I include some stuff re team style too.  Wyscout does have a couple of metrics that “PAdj” - possession adjusted, but it is only a couple.  That gives him a bit more context than just player v player.

[RedM]

I've only read part of this thread, and obviously its mainly about the new signing and where he fits in, will Max go on loan etc. But has this been considered, maybe Bentley might leave us? Has he only got a year left? He might want to play in the premier League after seeing Brentford up there and wonder 'what if'.

He's a good age and ticks a lot of boxes for some clubs I would think?

I just wanted to throw this into the mix after reading a lot of 'is Bentley good enough for us' type posts

[Taz]

38 minutes ago, RedM said:

I've only read part of this thread, and obviously its mainly about the new signing and where he fits in, will Max go on loan etc. But has this been considered, maybe Bentley might leave us? Has he only got a year left? He might want to play in the premier League after seeing Brentford up there and wonder 'what if'.

He's a good age and ticks a lot of boxes for some clubs I would think?

I just wanted to throw this into the mix after reading a lot of 'is Bentley good enough for us' type posts

I think he's been brought in to directly compete with Bentley, and possibly/probably take over the number 1 shirt next season, if Bentley does leave. 

Sending Max out to league 1, hopefully getting regular minutes in, we will keep a close eye on him to see if it really is worth taking up an extra year or two with him, or just setting up for a parting of the ways. It could well be that they don't think Max is quite ready/up for the Championship yet, but with a years experience at the next level down, it could make him a better goalkeeper.

There were clearly issues of some description with Bentley last season, hence the extended run that Max had. Whilst we seemed to play better football from the back when Max started playing, we conceded quite a few goals as well - although admittedly we did come up against Fulham, but were also conceding around 2 or 3 goals a game for quite a while afterwards as well. The fact that the team wasn't really settled then didn't help either, so maybe a prolonged spell away would do him good. 

Max is a decent number 2, but personally if I was him I would want to be playing regularly at his age.

Back to Bajic, time will tell, but I do think this signing is more of a progression signing to replace Bentley (at some point).

[RedM]

56 minutes ago, Taz said:

I think he's been brought in to directly compete with Bentley, and possibly/probably take over the number 1 shirt next season, if Bentley does leave. 

Sending Max out to league 1, hopefully getting regular minutes in, we will keep a close eye on him to see if it really is worth taking up an extra year or two with him, or just setting up for a parting of the ways. It could well be that they don't think Max is quite ready/up for the Championship yet, but with a years experience at the next level down, it could make him a better goalkeeper.

There were clearly issues of some description with Bentley last season, hence the extended run that Max had. Whilst we seemed to play better football from the back when Max started playing, we conceded quite a few goals as well - although admittedly we did come up against Fulham, but were also conceding around 2 or 3 goals a game for quite a while afterwards as well. The fact that the team wasn't really settled then didn't help either, so maybe a prolonged spell away would do him good. 

Max is a decent number 2, but personally if I was him I would want to be playing regularly at his age.

Back to Bajic, time will tell, but I do think this signing is more of a progression signing to replace Bentley (at some point).

Good points.

Its a difficult position isn't it. Any other position can get rotated, whether starting the match or off the bench. A keeper can spend months as a sub without getting league game time. Often then the second keeper is sent out to get experience at another team, which of course is no good if your keeper gets injured or sent off there and then. 

I don't know what the answer is, if one is needed. Maybe being allowed to have a 4th sub, as long as its a keeper? Usually when a keeper is subbed during a match (which is rare) unless it is due to injury its seen as a negative thing, why not treat the position like any other and have good competition and equality between them? 

Yeah, probably a stupid idea, but stranger rules have been made!

[Jerseybean]

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/premier-league-bristol-city-bajic-7318007

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 16/06/2022 at 20:13, Snufflelufagus said:

I bet his now fiance replied when he popped the question 'Yes your a keeper'

... although, as the forum pedant, and with extreme apologies, I bet she really said “you’re a keeper” - I’m so sorry ...

[RedRock]

I like Bents. Not outstanding, but solid. Most of the time, comfortably a top six keeper.

Needs to improve on dominating his area and distribution. Think he has the mental and physical abilities to do that.

My one worry is his confidence. When it takes a knock it invariably triggers a dip in form - not just for one game, but a series. That’s more difficult to address and probably why we’ve decided we need quality back-up. 

 

[Negan]

6 hours ago, RedRock said:

I like Bents. Not outstanding, but solid. Most of the time, comfortably a top six keeper.

Needs to improve on dominating his area and distribution. Think he has the mental and physical abilities to do that.

My one worry is his confidence. When it takes a knock it invariably triggers a dip in form - not just for one game, but a series. That’s more difficult to address and probably why we’ve decided we need quality back-up. 

 

That's just every player though, no matter the position. Bents in my opinion is top 3 keepers in the league, put him in the Watford, Norwich, West Brom sides and he'd look even better. Our biggest problem is being so bad defensively. Which in turn leads to Bentley having more to do, so he'll eventually make mistakes. I'd say every year he earns us 7-10 points on his own. Really do hope we're doing everything we can to get him to sign a new contract, can easily keep going as he is now for another 4/5 years. Saves us having to find someone of his quality again. Having said all of that if Bajic can come in and genuinely push him then great. I think Nige might start easing Bajic in more after Christmas if Bents still hasn't signed a contract. 

[Taz]

Are we still waiting on permits/visa for final clearance on this? Hasn't been named at all in either game so assume he's still not able to play? Does that mean he can't train also?

[DaveF]

6 minutes ago, Taz said:

Are we still waiting on permits/visa for final clearance on this? Hasn't been named at all in either game so assume he's still not able to play? Does that mean he can't train also?

Hes injured.