BrizzleRed

16 minutes ago, Keepers Ball said:

I'm really torn here. I don't ever get put off by scaremongering and have always had the attitude of "it happens it happens".

but if I'm honest, I'm getting cold feet about going. trouble is i have a young Son who keeps asking "Aren't we going? Aren't we going?"

Then there is the habitual side of me that has to go.

FFS why can't the EPL and Football League stop being so pig headed and postpone games over the Christmas period?

This decision making should be taken out of our hands. All this prioritising by Chris Whitty is nonsense

I’ve already made my decision and decided one football match isn’t worth the possibility of messing up Christmas for, but I can certainly see your problem.

Got to say your last sentence proves the no-win situation the authorities are is, as they are damned if they do, or damned if they don’t!

Last year they were hammered for locking down and were accused of ‘cancelling Christmas’.  This year they’re treating us as adults and leaving us to make our own decisions on what’s most important to us, and that’s also wrong.

Who’d honestly want to be in government these day?!!!

3 minutes ago, maxjak said:

           `     Please enlighten me as to what this bigger picture is?   Why is it a narrow minded opinion?   What are these different scientific views?.   I have an extremely open mind,  that is just desperate to be educated by someone of your superior intellect.     "Open your mind and get out of your box".........Ha! Really?     Anyone can spout glib cliches..........offer me some substance.     

I think what we’re supposed to do is trawl the net for every crazy fuitloop mad scientist who disagrees with the accepted view of science or medicine.  When you find them, you follow whatever they say without question.

I think the way it goes is, if you follow the mainstream, you’re a sheep and closed minded, but if you follow a ****** nutter, you’re a maverick and open minded.

I think that’s right, but maybe this Bannerman chappie will confirm.

14 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Wait, where do you think the government gets its money from?

They literally do have a bottom-less pit filled with money they can dip into at will and never have to pay back. Of course it'd be mad to do so blindly for other reasons, but they (in theory) could do if they wanted to.

Do they have a bottomless pit though?  

All us taxpayers are obviously the pit and speaking for myself, my pockets are far from bottomless!

25 minutes ago, Harry said:

You are taking my comments and being very black or white with them and not filling in any blanks because you are not prepared to accept any alternative. 

Lockdowns - I didn’t say it wasn’t necessary in the initial phase. But this certainly wasn’t necessary for as long as it lasted. And then repeated. 
Furlough - I didn’t say furlough was a bad thing or unnecessary. But, as with lockdowns, this was far too long and far too costly. It shouldn’t have been necessary for nyon 18 months. 
Test & Trace - I didn’t say it was unnecessary. I said we wasted a lot of money on it. Anyone who argues against that is a hypocrite, as it’s been a huge complaint from pretty much everyone. 
PPE - I didn’t say we didn’t need PPE. I said a lot of money wasted on PPE contracts. Again, this is a pretty mainstream opinion, no doubt shared by yourself. 
Vaccines - I didn’t say they didn’t work. I said they provided false hope - see my response to China Pig above. 
Early Treatments - Yes, I realise this is a process that needs to be researched and authorised. I’d question why certain drugs that were already approved for other treatments were swiftly shut down and became taboo. 
NHS Capacity - Yes, there was the initial boost in March to bring in additional support - but what’s happened since? Derisory pay rises, no huge recruitment drive, no new hospitals, no increased icu spaces etc. 

Ok get your point that you weren’t actually against some of these things, but show me an urgent crisis where there hasn’t been waste.  

I still maintain your post seemed to be aimed at putting a negative slant on any point you could possibly find and I don’t think that was down to my interpretation, but there you go.

As for your comments about waste, you can’t spend weeks in a crisis too’ing and fro’ing negotiating contracts, whilst people are dying in their thousands.  That was a time to get contacts done quickly to get what was needed, so I think they can be cut some slack on those cases.  It’s also easy to be wise after the facts, especially when judging lengths of lock-downs, etc.

Fair enough on the future NHS and you can’t keep running it at 95% + capacity indefinitely and expect it to hold up, so something definitely needs to be done there for certain..

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

My point was more that, all the money that’s been wasted on the other things could and should have been better spent trying to actually treat this virus rather than run away from it (lockdowns),

Most of the experts (and opposition parties)were calling for lockdowns and a few saying it should have been done sooner, so don’t know how that could have been avoided

max out the credit card (furlough), profligate

As they decided to follow the medical advice, do you really think they shouldn’t have provided furlough and thrown loads of jobs and business on the scrapheap?

(test & trace,

Our government were lambasted for not doing test and trace sooner, so are you saying this shouldn’t have actually been done?

wasteful ppe contracts etc)

So was that my imagination that care workers and the NHS staff were constantly calling for ever more PPE, even when it wasn’t seemingly available?  They were desperate times and required desperate measures.

and provide false hope (3 vaccines in 9 months that still don’t protect). 

Really???  So you don’t actually think those vaccines have saved a huge amount of lives and prevented a massive overload on the NHS?  I’d hate to think where we’d be now without them.  I think any false hope was created by the media, rather than by the government tbh.

A lot of money, time and resource has gone on the strategies listed above. Yes, there are now, finally, some early treatments coming to market, but these should have been pushed, funded and provided support much much earlier,

How do you know they weren’t? These things don’t happen overnight and the shole world are trying to catch up and get to grips with this virus. You can’t just snap your fingers and you get what you want …. Instantly

whilst the nhs capacity and personnel should have been dealt with 21 months ago. 

This was a massive fire fighting exercise and that’s why the goverment were trying to get retired NHS staff back in as support.  You can’t suddenly get loads of new staff trained up in a few weeks.  Then we had the Nightingale hospitals set up to try to increase capacity if needed.

I don’t know why some people would argue against these points, they are perfectly reasonable and it’s clear the strategy that has been implemented since March 2020 has failed and we’re pretty much where we were this time last year.  This is simply an alternative strategy that would surely have seen us in a better place right now. 

I beg to differ. We’re nowhere near where we were at the start.  We’ve got better treatments to deal with the most sick, such as better ventilation processes and medication and we’re massively reducing hospitalisation and deaths.

To be totally honest, even with the benefit of hindsight, your post appears to be criticism for criticism’s sake and bear in mind, the whole world have been learning as they go along with this.  
 

There’s no disputing we got off on a bad footing at the start and were slow off the mark, but I honestly don’t think they’ve done that badly since, all things considered.

4 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

That’s basically how the Scots & Welsh operate, England pays for it, they spend it.

So true

I’ll bet if they ever get independence, they’ll still be expecting financial support from the UK for years.

Just now, Harry said:

The money has been there for everything else. 

Yes and that has to be paid back too.

This is the real world, not some fluffy idealistic paradise where you wave a magic wand and every one of the world’s ills are fixed.  We all know a lot of things can be fixed by throwing money at it, but that can’t go on indefinitely when you can’t afford it.

By your comment, you suggest because we’ve already spent loads, there must be loads more available.  I think we’ll all be in for a rude awakening when we see what cuts will have to made to pay this lot back, let alone add even more to the huge debts.

1 hour ago, Harry said:

 

 

Mmmm….not really sure what part of my post was incorrect. 
More nurses. More NHS capacity, more focus on treatment to prevent hospitalisation. 
Are those things disagreeable to you both? 

The only thing you’ve missed out on is explaining where that magic money tree forest is!

The Welsh and Scots are now saying they’d like to re-introduce furlough, even though the government hasn’t actually closed anything down.  Drakeford was on this morning saying how unfair it was that the nasty UK government is being unfair to the devolved governments by not agreeing to pay up.

Anyone would think there was a bottom-less pit filled with money you can just dip into at will and never has to be paid back.

8 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

It was bloody tragic. He was buried on the day he should have married his partner.

There's sod all he might have done given it was early doors, much like my mega fit nephew ( commercial pilot,) who returned from flights from Shanghai late 2019 and, though never seriously unwell, was confined to his pit unable to move for days. He thought it mega flu. Weeks later they mentioned Covid, though family in contact suffered various symptoms later identified as being signs of Covid.

I met him a few weeks ago and he's angry. Very angry. He continues to fly to China, he showed me the photos of how he's treated when there. And for those of you who've seen the Hollywood disaster movies HAZMAT suits all round, zero contact, confined to hotel rooms (cells,) fed through a hatch. Yep, that's what he's been living these past two years.

Beyond the confines of the airport he neither knows nor cares. His photos paint a thousand words, yet that's what the Chinese still think appropriate. Yet pillocks over here complain of infringement.

 

Awful story and puts into context how others deal with this virus.

As for your last sentence in bold, that perfectly describes a ‘I want and I’ll have it’ generation.

They seem to have the view that they don’t have to work within society and won’t be told or even advised what they should, or shouldn’t be doing.  

It seems they view fighting against rules and authority as a badge of honour and appear to be really proud of it and it isn’t difficult to spot them on here.

32 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Coventry v Stoke now called off. That`s five in the Championship and thirteen in total over the EFL (36 games).

They’re coming thick and fast now.

The players are just as likely to catch it as the rest of us, so this just goes to emphasise how much of it is out there now.

13 minutes ago, big p said:

Well Brizzle red just said about the mask debate, and there are plenty of people suggesting that closing football should be an option, then people clearly don't think covid passes will work.

Covid Passes was always about coercion and was never going solve the issue in hand. That's why 101 Tory MPs voted against their own party. 

 

Passes probably would have helped if we were still at the point where we were a week or so ago.  

Things change fast and when you get runaway infections like we’ve got going on now, it possibly wouldn’t help that much now.

With the delay between being infectious and actually showing up on a lateral flow test, it could mean there could be many who passed a lateral flow test on Saturday morning who could still still infect others.

If you’re looking at covid passes as a ‘tool in the bag’ in tackling the virus, it could well be a very blunt one in the situation we have now.  That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have worked before this latest spike though.

37 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Exemption from what; being intelligent, being a considerate citizen, making demands on the health service? Exemption works both ways.

Funny how those I've witnessed who've claimed exemption would be running for ambulance chasing lawyers were they to be sensibly denied access to facilities on the ground of risk. 

"So you're severely claustrophobic and prone to suffer major panic attacks leading to hospitalisation?

Yeah.

You do know the station is packed to the rafters in there, it's stifling & you can't swing a cat.

Yeah, but that's my business not yours.

Actually it isn't and to save you and other passengers from yourself you ain't coming in....."

Also it's funny how the 'exempt' (sic) appear to fall into distinct stereotypes, as others have noted.

 

Bet it would be a very different picture if all these muppets had to sign a disclaimer that if they continue to do what they want, they’ll waive any right to treatment if they get sick!

You just know what their response would be though ….. oh no, that’s my human right to have treatment and I’m entitled to it just as much as those being careful and if I can possibly queue jump, I’ll do that too and tough shit to anyone else who suffers in the process.

Selfish tossers

41 minutes ago, big p said:

Well that's working then.

How can it, when there’s so many d1ckheads not following the advice.  

Add in the plonkers who only wear the masks over their mouth and leave their nose sticking out of the top and there’s your problem 

Anyone would think they didn’t breath through their nose, the ******* dimwits

1 minute ago, big p said:

To be fair it's none of your business why they aren't wearing a mask. There's a thing called exemption. And why are you worried if you are wearing one?

If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that wearing a mask isn’t to protect you, it’s to help protect others!

47 minutes ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

I agree with your comment with people already carrying it unaware for another week.
I’ve got it at the moment. I was in London at the weekend on the tubes that were packed and after dark the party goers have a drink or two and forget to wear mask. 
When I went through the track and trace with the NHS yesterday I started with saying it was bad and not surprised I caught it. They went through the date for symptoms started to tell me I became contagious Friday possibly Saturday. So after all my moaning about people out of control it was me being the one that they should be worried about. 
I work from home so struggling to think where I could have caught it as the rest of the house are all negative. 
ironic thing is I was due my booster on Saturday but because I was away I cancelled it. If I had it I would think I was feeling like shite from the jab and could of carried on going about passing it onto more people. 

Really sorry to hear you’ve got it and hope you’re on the mend really quickly.

I know there are some right numpties around who clearly don’t care about anyone other than themselves, but your experience is a classic example of how it’s virtually impossible to control the spread of this, even when you do the right things.  

When people call for a lockdown when the case numbers start rising, you can’t help thinking of the stable door analogy.  If the virus was the horse and the stable door was our containment controls, the horse had already bolted from the stable at least a week before we closed the stable door!

It’ll be speading through London like wildfire anyway I reckon.  I was up there on Sunday too and the more touristy areas were absolutely rammed and as you say, the tube was really busy too.

Given how contageous this latest variant is, I think the government is basically at the point of saying, ‘here’s a vaccine if you choose to have it, but otherwise, there isn’t a lot more we can do and it’ll have to run its course’.

Hopefully it’ll just mean a few days off work for most people, but there could be nuge numbers of people isolating in the next few weeks and services could take a massive hit.

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’d argue the lockdowns weren’t that much of a lockdown anyway.  Did it really stop people doing that much?  Not in my eyes.

As for Saturday, bought a ticket for my dad, so I could take him (his 80th last week), but I’m pretty sure by the time Friday comes around, I’ll have decided not to take him, nor go myself.  I don’t care about the £25 for his ticket.  I know not everyone can be that blasé about it.

 

I felt the first lockdown was pretty restrictive, though definitely not so much the second one.

Saturday certainly doesn’t hold much attraction for me now either.  I had no worries this time last week, so just shows how quickly the situation can change.

Given the choice of going to the match on my own and then potentially risking Christmas with the whole of my family, its starting to look like a no-brainer for me.  I can only see that getting an even more clear cut choice by Saturday morning.

Can certainly see your thinking with you and your dad, as there’s more important things in life than a football match.

Looking further ahead, I wonder if this will have an effect on the transfer window, with clubs being even more cautious due to uncertainty.

4 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

I was 50/50 on whether to go or not.  Being so close to Christmas, I may err on the side of caution as spending Christmas with my family is probably more important than football to me.

I'm guessing that a lot of others may take the same view unless a few of the players on either team come down with it and the game is postponed.

In all honesty I think the game should probably be played behind closed doors anyway.

Would be interesting to know what the clubs would prefer:

1) You go ahead with the match, have a piss poor crowd and all the extra costs of the security and covid checks and possibly turn out to be a very efficient virus spreader.

2) You play behind closed doors with no atmosphere or bar or food takings and having to offer refunds for tickets sold.

3) Have the match postponed and have another game to fit in somewhere in an already busy schedule.

13 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Unless you close schools and offices it is pointless doing any of these other measures as their affect on slowing it down are miniscule.

Just for show and reassurance.

There will be a full lock down in January.

I reckon we’d only get another lockdown as an absolute last resort.  The previous ones proved they don’t actually prevent infections and just delay them.  The only benefit would be the possibility of getting more booster jabs done.

Even if we had a lockdown tonight, you can guarantee there are tens of thousands who are already infected, who don’t even know yet and probably won’t test positive for another week, so the numbers would still grow massively anyway.

The tipping pount could be if the infection rate translates into massive numbers of hospital admissions and the NHS really looks like collapsing.

You can see the logic of trying to ride this out if possible, as you just can’t keep locking down. 

4 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

Think today is the cut off for Christmas, my son has it tested posative  yesterday and rough with it, but no one else in his family did.

****** minefield.

Hope your son gets over it very quickly and it doesn’t mess up Christmas for him and his family.

Trouble is with this virus, there’s a few days delay between being infected until it actually shows up on a test.  That allows it to be spread unnoticed, which is why it’s practically impossible to get on top of, as it’s always one step ahead. 

23 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

Would be amassed if there were 10,000 there Saturday and crowds around the country seeing the same drop off.

Of coarse Christmas being the main driver but also the unknow outcome of this strain also playing on peoples minds.

100% this and was thinking much the same.  

With the ST’s counted anyway, the official figure won’t be that low, but you can bet this will be easily the smallest league gate of the season if you did an actual head count on the day.

1 hour ago, Jacki said:

It would make sense, without a doubt. The problem would be the volume of fixtures, and also the timelines that need to be worked to with the Qatar World Cup taking place in December  

I’m pretty relaxed about covid in the main, I’ve been sensible but I’ve been perfectly happy to go to events etc. over the past couple of months. I am really wondering about going on Saturday though. Cases are rocketing, people will be crammed on concourses, and if you catch it this weekend you can forget about Christmas with the family. I’m really not sure it’s worth the risk. 

Completely with you and I’m seriously questioning if it’s worth the hassle and risk of going this Saturday.  In normal circumstances I would definitely go, but we’ve got the whole family coming over for Christmas dinner and I really don’t think standing in a massive queue to watch 90 + minutes of probably shit football is worth screwing up Christmas for.

Things are moving so fast at the moment, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if it was decided to suspend this weekend’s matches.  

With the rate doubling every couple of days, we could be looking at 150,000 new infections a day by Saturday.  This could lead to a few more matches postponed due to covid in the squad anyway, so that may make the decision for the authorities anyway.

F*****G virus

34 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

Please don't mention that name again. There's a good chap

Still makes me shudder when I get a mental picture of that bloke walking up to take a penalty

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'm perfectly fine mate...I've felt the same way for many years before covid and my recent situation.

Everyone goes through it...not first, not last.

Covid is here...fact.

A society of unhealthy, overweight, unfit people is here. 

Covid wouldn't be so desperate, if we were healthier as a nation.

I'd rather we looked long term, rather than short term.

They've said there will be further mutations and most likely other viruses.

So why not get healthier so that we can fight better.

Shutting down society isn't the answer.

Vaccine, jab, booster, wear mask, stay at home, work at home, don't travel, make travel harder, don't socialise, stay away from people, restrictions on who can see loved ones...within two years, people are willing to accept that as the new norm.  For it to be an everyday normal event.

Perhaps build more hospitals for an older society that lives longer with health issues. Perhaps pay nurses etc more. Perhaps educate children on exercise and how to cook and eat healthier.

I could go on.

Thanks for your concern...but I've always thought this.

Don’t disagree with most of the points you make, but most of your solutions are long term ones, though clearly should be things we’re aiming for.

What bothers me is what you seem to be proposing for the short term though.  The way I see it, there are two choices; either continue with some restrictions as we’re doing, or what it appears you’re suggesting.  

Let’s not sugar coat it, as it seems you’re basically saying the young, fit and healthy should be able to go out and live life as normal.  On the other hand, the elderly, those with fragile health, or just plain fat b******s should all lock themselves in their houses until either their healthy relatives eventually infect them after ‘living their lives freely’, or their ill health or old age finally overcomes them.

Have I got that one right, because that seems to be what you’re saying?

6 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

so its unanimous,. the new stadium has to be in that area somewhere to keep in line with theirs and bristol heritage, once a smelly place, always a smelly place..

bridgewater had a bad one with a cellofane factory i think. i had an uncle that worked there,,he lived in queens rd  behind malvern rd

Yeah, you could easily smell the cellophane factory as you drove past Bridgwater on the M5.  Smell would get right in the back of your throat.

That glue factory was something else though.  If the sags do move to the fruit market, someone out to come in and rebuild the place and stink the f*****s out.  They may have been proud to stink of gas, but they wouldn’t be with that bone works!  

Handy for us though, as we can just call them the Glue Few!!!

3 minutes ago, Rich said:

Frequently saw large open top wagons driving around the area delivering bones to the old glue factory. Even the wagons smelt.

My Dad used to work out of SWEB, which was next door to the glue factory.  

He used to occasionally smuggle me into work with him when I was a kid and I can clearly remember the stink from that place, even now.  It was unbelievable and I’ve never smelt anything like it since thankfully.

You’d never get away with something like that these day, as there were still a lot of houses around there, unlike today.