BrizzleRed

18 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

And you can’t get a PCR test either currently 

Obviously people have used up their bog-rolls, so made some space for another stockpile!

1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

This has happened with influenza every year for centuries.

This idea that Covid rewrites all the rules is simply wrong; it is merely the most recent human virus.

It could equally have been Covid that we had for centuries and then influenza crops up.

Covid is just another virus which a more sensible society would simply learn to live with rather than being the new bogey man to terrify the simple.

You’re overlooking the big difference though. Even the original strain of covid 19 was way more contageous than flu, and each new variant has been more transmissable than the previous one.

That’s why this can’t just be treated like another form of flu.

29 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I beg to differ, as at least one walrus was living in the Isles of Scilly until recently, and I think another has been spotted in Tyneside.

https://inews.co.uk/news/arctic-walrus-size-fridge-spotted-northumberland-on-hunt-food-1302143

Penguins also live in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Patagonia, not to mention the Falklands and its dependencies.

Also regarding Santa's workshop. As the North Pole is covered in moving pack ice for much of the year these days, does he only set up during the winter months when it is frozen solid?  If so, it's a hell of a feat of R&D for the elves to develop new toys, source the materials and build production lines in only a few months.

Very true and a real logistical nightmare.  

On the other hand, if he can manage to deliver all the right presents to every child in the world in one night, that problem should be a piece of piss for our Santa!

1 hour ago, Mr Hankey said:

As mentioned by @Red-Robbo, it wouldn’t likely be stated on the cert as the leading cause of death, but neither would “got run over by bus”! Would be worded differently, but there is evey chance it would be counted by the governments figures. There are usually more than one cause of death on the certificates which are listed in bullet points.
 

Sometimes covid is listed amongst other ailments much more serious, which you know would have been the cause of death regardless of whether they had the infection or not. That is what grates me. But don’t get me twisted, i am very much in favour of getting the vaccine, but at the same time i do think it should be a personal choice. Believe it or not, i am currently trying to get in touch with the NHS as they are not recording my second vaccine, despite getting it in September! All in all, world is a shit show & it aint getting better anytime soon

 

Cheers.  
I’ve always suspected we were being more honest than many countries in the number of covid deaths we’re counting.  

Not surprising as in the early days, the media seemed to clamouring to get anything possible counted as a covid death, then using it as a stuck to beat the government and show what a mess they were making.  In fairness they’ve responded and I can’t see that accusation can be made now and sounds like we aren’t actually too far off the true figure then.  

Makes the mind boggle to think what formula China has used to get figures as low as theirs though and I’d speculate it’s probably the bare faced lie method!!!

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I can answer that. 

Deaths within 28 Days of Positive Covid test is the measure the government uses in its press conferences. It's quicker than analysing actual death certificates, which tend to lag numerous days after the actual death.

So, while it is possible the mythical bus crash victim would be counted in the government announced figures, it wouldn't say Covid on his or her death certificate.  The small numbers of people dying due to non-Covid reasons within 28 days of a Covid test would be more than balanced by the many people who die from Covid more than 28 days after testing positive. 20 days is the average infection-to-death period, but plenty have  succumbed after months of treatment: the singer John Prine for example.

It is possible to see the figures for actual deaths recorded for, or partly attributed to, Covid here:  https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/26november2021

It's worth noting that this way of counting Covid deaths gives a higher total than the government's "28 Days" method.

146,000 Britons are counted as having died from Covid "within 28 days" but 170,000 Brits have Covid on their death certificate,

 

Many thanks for clearing that up and much appreciated RR

19 minutes ago, Mr Hankey said:

I deal with Death Certificates every day, & some of the cases that are put down as covid-19 are baffling to say the least….not that i am agreeing with any conspiracy ect, because trust me i am not, i am fully aware that covid exists & is killing people & we should have the vaccine, but the records/stats on deaths can be misleading.

You’d be an ideal person to answer a question I’ve had for a long time then.  

We know all the Covid deaths are announced as ‘being within 28 days of a positive covid test’.  Now if someone had a positive test and were recovering well, but within 28 days they got run over by a bus, would they still be counted as a covid related death?

1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

I mostly agree but as a counter there have been fit and healthy people who have died as a direct result of vaccination and I bet they massively regretted being vaccinated!

There isn't a "right" answer; Covid vaccinations kill people but so does Covid.

It should be up to the individual to balance the risks rather than the government telling people what to do based upon population health statistics in which individuals don't matter.

And whilst we're on statistics that discount the individual you are more likely to be killed by a Covid vaccination than you are to win the lottery.

Bought your ticket? I have.

I completely agree, but as I said, I think there are far too many people who are making the decision to reject the jab who aren’t making a balanced decision, as they’re believing scaremongering rather than actual facts.

We’ve had around 150,000,000 vaccines given in the UK alone, so let’s be honest, that’s way more than would have been used in any vaccine trials.  With numbers that big, you’d be seeing very large numbers of deaths if there was a real issue.  

I’ll bet if you administered 150 million doses of any drug, you’d find a few people with adverse reactions, as everybody is different.

The statistics show you are massively more likely to die from Covid than you are from the vaccine.  Apart from death with Covid, there is apparently a rise in other health issues like heart problems in people who had seemingly recovered from Covid, so it isn’t just about the death rates.  There’s obviously still a lot to learn about this virus.

As for your final question, no I don’t bother with the lottery, as I just don’t fancy the odds!

49 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

So are you telling me that something which occurred almost 12 months ago and kept under wraps for all this time wasn’t recently deliberately put out to try and get rid of him ? 

Pretty much nailed on that is the case!  Trouble is Boris doesn’t help himself.  

What with him and Captain Hindsight, we’ve got a right pair heading up our two main parties in this country.  

Some of the old leaders of the past must be spinning in their graves at what we’ve ended up with.

4 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

An office party that could also have occurred with other parties as well.  

Tbh, that pales into insignificance if there’s a safer and still effective vaccine that the government chose to ignore.

I’ll stick by my previous statement.  There is far too much petty party politics going on and not enough emphasis on the really important issues.  

I’d like to know why the media aren’t over this mystery vaccine issue like a rash

12 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

The scientists are in uproar about it so make of that what you will.  

Right thanks

Well, in that case I’d far rather the useless media put some energy into investigating something important like that, rather than giving blanket coverage on some poxy office party.

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ironically, one Vaccine that might be safer, more traditional tech isn't on offer! Valneva, we ie the Government suddenly withdrew interest in September.

Interesting.  Was it because it was less effective, or other reasons?

38 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Everyone makes their own decision based upon balance of probabilities but the choice is informed by the fact that the normal rules to ensure that vaccines are safe have been removed.

If I was over 70 or already ill then I would have chosen to have one of the vaccines; as I'm neither I haven't.

What I am against is the huge exhortation for everyone to take one of the several vaccines multiple times without flagging up that these would in normal times be regarded as still very much trial / experimental vaccines.

Can understand that.  The point is any, and I mean any vaccine or other medication carries a potential risk, so where do you draw the line?   

I’d be interested to know if there’s any poll that’s been done with un-vaxinated people in hospital with covid.  It would certainly be interesting to know if given their situation, they wished they would have opted for the jab after all, or are still glad they didn’t.  I’m not a betting man, but I reckon the majority wish they could turn back the clock.

The danger is, it appears that many aren’t making informed decisions about not having the vaccine and are instead basing their decision on rubbish they see on social media, a friend has heard, or some bloke down the pub.

It still seems odd that many seem willing to trust the opinions of the uninformed and rumours, rather than the experts in their field.

6 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

The normal rules for licensing a vaccine together with liability of the manufacturer for side effects.

This is very wordy but it's in there; stated reason being (obviously) that it's a pandemic.

https://post.parliament.uk/regulatory-approval-of-covid-19-vaccines-in-the-uk/

 

If you look at how a vaccine is usually tested then here is the TB one for cattle which is required to have a four year trial before it can be licensed for general use.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/green-light-for-ground-breaking-bovine-tb-vaccine-field-trials

 

Just wondering what your proposed alternative would be?  

Do you sit on the vaccine for 4 years and test while possibly millions are dying, or do what has been done?  

It’s undeniably tragic for the 75 people who have reportedly died due to the vaccine, but I wonder how many of the 150,000 who’ve died of covid would have jumped at the chance to get a jab to try and save their life.

There are rarely absolutes in this world, but if this vaccine release was a calculated gamble, it’s been a very successful one and I shudder to think what state the world would be now without it.

2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

If people are taking such umbrage at this current set of light touch rules and regs then wait until the climate emergency really bites in the coming decades and when the next inevitable pandemic occurs, involving a strain of a much more deadly virus. Like Ebola, for example, which was successfully combated in West Africa by *checks notes* a track and trace system and lockdowns. Yes, one of the poorest regions in the world (albeit with help from the WHO) eliminated a far more deadly virus than covid 19. 

Funny what quick and decisive action can achieve, versus having a bumbling leader that brushes his hair with a balloon. 

Too right.  Anyone would think we’ve all been banged up and had the key thrown away, listening to some of them.

With nature all about things evolving and adapting, how people can get so impatient that this virus hasn’t been besten by now is baffling.  Also, some of these self-proclaimed ‘more enlightened’ people can’t seem to comprehend that another more deadly mutation could be just around the corner.

Nah, let’s just scrap all the restrictions and have a free for all …….. Bert Bloggs on Twitter said it’ll be alright!!!

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On the actual football bits, spot checks being mooted.

Could that cause issues or am I underestimating people's understanding of the issues. Bit in the Times today speaks of it being up to SAGs to decide whether all fans should be checked.

Says something about SAGs stipulating the numbers that would need checking. Suggests 1 in 4 could be the number but I guess it could be a bit of a postcode lottery.

As for the other stuff, would ask indeed what happened to the Nightingale Hospitals. Could be very useful.

Other bit, Matt Hughes has said in the Daily Mail that clubs are scrambling for extra stewards in order to try and make this work.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10290411/Premier-League-EFL-clubs-scramble-hire-stewards-Plan-B-Covid-restrictions.html

I got waved through the security check at the Derby game, so some stewards are already doing it randomly.

1 hour ago, Harry said:

A) Yes I did say that. And stand by it. Not a conspiracy though. It’s happening right in front of you. 
If you’re still claiming this is being done through conscious, devious planning, rather than a necessary response to a dangerous pandemic, then I’ll stand by my conspiracy accusation, so we’ll have to differ.

B) Not trying to sew any discontent. Just stating my opinions. Well, your doing a very good impression of a dog with a bone who doesn’t want to let go. Maybe if everyone just ignores when you mention the subject, we can have some peace and get back to discussing football ….. although you obviously won’t be there, will you?! 

C) Correct. They sometime subtly raised these points. But were any of them ACTUALLY ever acted upon. No. 
Oh yeah in this day and age?  I can just imagine the uproar if they started saying you were increasing your chances of dying with covid if you’re too fat!!! Don’t forget, thanks to all the ‘hyper sensitives’ you’re risking being hounded out of your job for saying stuff like that. 

D) No they didn’t. They shut them all down again without having ever received anyone. 
Go back and check on that one.  Some got very limited use and were also used for vaccinations, but they were only supposed to be used if the existing hospitals were overwealmed anyway.

E) GP records clearly know who is in a vulnerable category. Honesty and transparency is better than fear, panic and hidden agendas. 
There you go again!

F) None of that would have been under threat. Oh so with your solution, the economy, jobs, business and the health service wouldn’t have been under threat?  Sorry to sound sarcastic, but if that’s true, whatever job you’re in, you’re wasted. You really should be running the country, as you are clearly a miracle worker!!!

I think you final point just confirms to me it’s a very good time to depart from this discussion and leave you to your strange world.

Just one final point to consider.  If you think the current situation regarding inconvenience and regulations is bad, count yourself very lucky you didn’t have to get through WW2  (I didn’t have to either btw)

There were more rules than you could wave a stick at and you’d ignore them at your peril.  (and those rules weren’t made permanent, so why should any we have now to deal with Covid?).
You also had our German friends trying to drop very large amounts of high explosives on you on many dark nights.  

Compared to that, a ****** vaccine pass really doesn’t seem that big a hassle to me!

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

You’ll have to tell me where I’ve strayed into ‘conspiracy’? 
I think I’ve been very levelled in this actually. I’ve not denied the virus exists, I’ve not denied vaccines work, I’ve not said that nobody should get them, so please tell me where the conspiracy appears? so it wasn’t you who was accusing the world’s governments and pharceutic companies making the most of this pandemic to either milk us for everything we’ve got or permanently taking away all our. civil liberties then?

I’ve praised the nhs workers, I’ve advocated solutions to help the more vulnerable, I’ve shown concern for citizens and their welfare and businesses. You’ll have to tell me what part of all that is conspiracy. 
Thing is, you’ve just read everything as ‘anti-vaxxer’ and not actually looked at the detail I’ve tried to present. 
Wrong, I never mention vaccinations. I’ve read it as someone who’s buying into the movement to make as much noise as as possible and sew discontent, with the aim of taking the brake off restrictions, right at a point when virus rates could potentially run away again, as they’re doing now in South Africa.

As for the decisions those in power have to make. Well, I don’t seek power, so I’d never find myself in that position. Those who seek power are a certain kind of personality (usually quite psychopath as it happens - true story, ie superficial, unemotional, lack of remorse, poor judgement). To be fair to him, whilst Boris is an utter cretin, I don’t think he’s in the same category of most leaders and power-seekers as having those psychopathic tendencies. 
Were it me - I’d have been honest from the start. Upfront inform people that a lot of people are going to die from this, we must take precautions such as staying at home of you have any hint of illness, encourage those who are at risk (ie the obese) to change their lifestyles to give themselves a better chance of a positive outcome,

pretty much what we were getting in the press briefings then, particularly from Whitty, Vallance JVT and Harries.  The info was certainly there, but maybe a little too nuanced for some people, while others seemed to hear what they wanted to hear, rather than what was actually said. That shambles of the BBC obviously didn’t help that by often summarising the briefing and managing to get key messages wrong.

would’ve committed the billions required to an army of wellbeing support to the millions of vulnerable, would’ve committed the billions required to beef up the health service to increase capacity and better facilities, and would certainly have set up isolated ‘covid only’ hospitals in order to prevent spread inside regular hospitals (where a good percentage of cases arise),

Which they actually did with the Nightingale Hospitals.

I’d have committed the billions required into the development of anti-virals and medicines rather than billions into vaccines for 80% of the population who don’t really need one,

Really? And how would you have decided who needed them then, as some people who weren’t considerd vulnerable have also been hit badly and sometimes died.  Apart from that, you’ve already said you’ll be completely honest and announce that “a lot of people are going to die”, so good luck when you tell many people you’ve already scared shitless that they can’t have a jab.  Boris would have no problem competing with you in a popularity contest after that!

I’d have promoted healthy eating, diet, exercise, rather than sit on your backsides at home and get fat, I’d have been honest - sorry folks, this is a virus that is sadly going to take many peoples lives, whatever we do, but we must live with it from day 1 and do everything possible to mitigate the poor outcomes in the most vulnerable and commit to the best possible care that we can. 
And then everyone is going to shout’ but you’re the government, so what are you going to do to protect us, save our jobs, save our businesses, pay our mortgages, etc, etc?

Again, not sure what I’ve said is conspiracy. Covid exists, but is only deadly for a very small number of people. Vaccines work for the most vulnerable. But they don’t work for everyone and they certainly don’t stop spread. That’s not conspiracy, love. 

Hope that helps …. love

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

And if the variant is indeed more contagious, and so far seemingly less deadly, then this is a good thing. 
End of the day, much like any respiratory virus, at some point we are ALL gonna get it. 
So if a milder form of this virus can quickly become the dominant strain then maybe less people will die from Delta. 
Should be a good thing, right? 

If it’s three times more contageous, but  produces half the hospitalisations per infection, we would still see a rise in total hospitalisations, so we far from out the woods yet.

This is still the biggest pandemic to hit the world since the Spanish flu and that killed millions.

I’ll say one thing to you, as you’re one of the chief anti-restriction protestors.

It’s alright you standing on your soapbox shouting about our civil liberties being denied.  Would you have such a cavalier attitude to the results of the virus if you were actually in a position in government where you’re  answerable for the results if you made tbe wrong call and it resulted in a massive loss off life?

It’s easy to do what you’re doing and you’re clearly proud of yourself for your protest, but luckily for you, it means **** all if you’re wrong. 

Unluckily for others, they DO bave to make these decisions and certainly aren’t helped when unaccountable people are spouting conspiracy crap that was probably started by some deluded ******* wannabe Fox Mulder on twitter, who never has to back up their claims!

3 hours ago, Riaz said:

They are human. And humans can be corrupted, pressured or coerced.

As can the conspiracy theorists, So what’s the difference?

1 hour ago, big p said:

Oh yea, the advice the people who made them wasn't adhering too. 

Good idea!  

Yeah whatever ….. show me any goverment who practice what they preach.

In addition to that, the recommendations are coming from the medical profession and scientists and the government just have to choose which advice they follow.

1 hour ago, big p said:

You speak as if you're grateful that we are "Allowed" to leave the house and not be  in lockdown. Sorry but that's funking rubbish... We should never accept it. No corrupt government should be allowed to take our freedoms away, ever!

If all those lockdowns worked, why is there still restrictions placed on us.

That's why I asked how long will people tolerate it. 

Wtf are you on about?

Anybody can choose to ignore the advice, but it’s just that most people can actually see the reasons for what’s going on and follow advice, even if they aren’t happy about it.

Lucky for you really, because if we all had your attitude, we’d all be ****** and you wouldn’t dtill be going about hour ‘normal’ life!

It’s pretty obvious you’re just anti-establishment and are just going to carry on doing what you want, regardless of the consequences.  

Think yourself lucky you live in a country where you can get away with that, but I should ease off the sarcastic comments towards anyone who doesn’t share your views.  

They are also following their own consciences and not being led by a ring through their nose by the government like you seem to be inferring.

24 minutes ago, bbew said:

The consequences of having or not having restrictions could be debated forever.  All most people who questioned them wanted however was a cost benefit analysis. 

We now know an estimated 740,000 possible cancer cases have been missed.  Many of these because since lockdown there have been 36 million fewer doctors consultations.  So may have been scared to get checked out as they didn't want to risk catching covid or being a burden on the NHS. 

 

Again, the 400,000 to 500,000 deaths prediction and the basis of this could be debated forever.  We should also never forget the initial panic back in March 2020 and very few would question the initial lockdown when so much was uncertain.

You do have to bear in mind however this prediction was made by the same person who predicted:

2001 - 150,000 deaths from foot and mouth - actual <200

2002 - 50,000 deaths from BSE - actual 177

2005 - 150,000,000 deaths from bird flu - actual 282

2009 - 65,000 deaths from swine flu - actual 457

 

 

There have been a wide range of predictions of death rates due to covid that’s for sure.  Looking at death rates per number of infections in the first peak compared to the number now would indicate that without restrictions and vaccinations, you could double or even triple the death toll we now have.

Absolutely agree that people with other illnesses have suffered, but how would that have been improved if the NHS had totally collapsed under the strain of trying to deal with covid, without the containment measures that have been put in place?

22 minutes ago, Riaz said:

The fact we are facing restrictions now, should be enough to tell you, it aint working. If vaccines worked, there would be no need for any restrictions. 90% of adults have been double jabbed ffs!

But have you considered where we could have been without the restrictions?  

There were serious predictions of 400,000 to 500,000 deaths if nothing was done.  The vaccines will have helped, as have the restrictions to an extent.  

It’s a right pain in the arse and we’re all getting sick of it, but the restrictions are minor compared with last Christmas, so there have been massive improvements over the last year.

4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The same people who would be up in arms if one of these nutters came on and twatted, say Mo Salah, broke his jaw and forced him to miss three months of football..........

As usual football will wake up when one of these idiots seriously injures a top player who then employs the same genius that got Joey Shoulder Barge off and sues the club concerned for zillions of lost revenue due to not providing an adequately protected workplace.

Exactly and makes you wonder how long it will be before someone gets injured.  

I was amazed by some comments about our pitch invader egainst Derby that apparently the stewards have little power to physically bring someone down on the pitch for fear of being sued if they injure them in the process.

Looks like the nutters have the upper hand now and it only takes one psycho and a player or official could be seriously injured, or worse.

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

People on Twitter calling for HER to be banned

Complte tits and that’s cancel culture at its worst.

Bleedin ridiculous the player could be booked for charging some ******** who shouldn’t even be on the pitch in the first place.  They aren’t participating in the game, so what justification is there for punishing the player? Madness