BrizzleRed

3 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

The only way you can prevent yourself from catching it is by staying at home, going to games with your vaccine passport isn't going to protect you.  If there was some spacing involved, e.g. you have to sit 3 seats away from each other whether it is each side of you, in front of you or behind you,... then likely you would be safe.

Agree the seat spacing option would work, but some ST holders would be prevented from going to games, so is that any more fair?

Nothing will protect you completely, but vaccine passports would certainly be a way of reducing the odds of infection, even though it certainly wouldn’t eliminate the risk.

Personally, I think the covid pass seems a better option than seat spacing, as I can’t think of a bigger atmosphere killer than that.

14 minutes ago, Riaz said:

More than a week and its worldwide. Pretty sure its confirmed as being mild.

Rather get that than get the vaccine and get a blood clot or heart issues.

So we’ve had about 150 million vaccinations given in the UK with around 75 deaths attributed to the vaccine, as opposed to around 150,000 to Covid.  

I know which odds I’d prefer, but it’s everyone’s right to choose for themselves.  I just can’t see the anti-vax logic though.

1 hour ago, Riaz said:

The new strain is mild. Hasnt killed one person.

We only heard about it about a week ago, so there’s plenty of time yet!

29 minutes ago, Harry said:

There’s not really much ‘packing in’ going on at AG nowadays. Loads of space if you wanna sit away from people. And besides, you’ll spend the majority of your time ‘outside’.  You are more likely to be breathed on by a dirty carrier when you are squashed up in the pub together, or standing for 20 minutes in a disorganised throng of people waiting to be searched, like the recent games, or indeed standing in a queue for 10 minutes in the concourse waiting for your latest round of high-fat content food or alcohol, both of which are more likely to make you unfit and unhealthy and more susceptible to a bad case of Covid. 
Vaccine passports have been in place in many countries for many months, and they haven’t made a blind bit of difference. So the real world data says that they simply do not make a jot of difference. 
The funniest news I saw this week : France made vaccine passports mandatory in nightclubs in July. Earlier this week they closed nightclubs again. So, who was spreading this virus in nightclubs?? 
 

Ultimately, vax passes don’t work. There is no evidence in any of the places that have implemented them that they stop spread. Having 1, 2 or 3 vaccines does not stop you catching covid and does not stop you passing it on. The only benefit which is clear is that it may prevent someone who previously would have had a high risk of death that they may now get through it. So yes, vaccines are good for anyone who is vulnerable to this virus. But they are pretty much negligible for everyone else. 
 

It seems to be forgotten that millions and millions of people caught covid before vaccinations and survived. In fact, most of them didn’t even know they had it. There has recently been a narrative that says the opposite to that known fact - now it’s said that if you haven’t had a vaccine you are probably going to be hospitalised. Which of course, is absolute nonsense. 
 

It really amazes me that most people are absolutely apoplectic at this governments actions in pretty much everything they do, that everyone knows that governments and media tell lies on a regular basis, and yet people simply fall in line with anything they say in regard to covid. One minute it’s “I hate this government, they don’t represent me”, the next it’s “must show my pass to go to football, because the government said so”. It’s laughable. Actually, it’s not laughable. It’s actually very very sad. 
I’m not willing to play this nonsense game that the government are playing. I’m not anti vax or a sceptic or anything.
Covid exists.  Yes.  
Covid can be dangerous for a very very small number of people. Yes.  
Covid is not any danger for the vast vast vast majority of people. Yes. 
Vaccines can help the most vulnerable to fight it off. Yes. 
Vaccines are necessary for everyone else who are not vulnerable to death from the virus. No! 
Coercion has been used to get vaccines into healthy children. Yes. 
Is that ******* disgusting and forever unforgivable. Yes. 
Do vaccine passports stop spread. No. 
Can a vaxxed person catch it. Yes. 
Can a vaxxed person pass it on. Yes. 
What will vaccine passports do? Nothing. 

Great response and a lot of good points, but not sure that it’s that black and white tbh.

No measures are anywhere near 100% effective and it’s a cumulative effect from multiple measures that add up and can then have a significant effect.

As for your comment about not being squashed together in AG at the moment, they must be a particularly dedicated bunch round me in the SS, as all the seats are always occupied on either side of me.  

I regularly used to go to live music gigs and am getting well pissed off withem them consstantly being cancelled.  If a vaccine passport could help bring those back before the musicians go bacrupt then I’m well up for it and don’t see it as that big a deal tbh.

It would be more of a problem if it became permanent, as at some point we should all be getting some natural resistance.  I’ll be more than happy to join any protest at that point and sure there would be many others too.

At present, I can only see this as a temporary measure to get a grip on the virus.  I know in the majority of cases this virus is mild, but I suspect we’ll find long-covid could also turn out to be a serious issue and that can happen in all ages and not just the elderly and vulnerable.
 

5 minutes ago, bris red said:

Has this new strain killed anyone ?The answer is no.

Not that we’ve heard but that isn’t how it works, is it?  People get progressively sicker as time goes by, so hospitalisations usually start a couple of weeks after infection and deaths from then on.  

The longer we go without deaths the better and we can start being more optimistic.  It’s a massive risk though to assume this is a milder 
variant and do nothing, only to find people dropping like flies and the virus is already rampant theoughout the country.

10 minutes ago, Harry said:

And if that was going to happen with this new variant, then there is no evidence that vaccine passports will prevent that. 

You’ve made a load of really valid points in this thread but there’s one I can’t agree with.

You say the vaccine passport in stadiums won’t make you any safer than outside, and is pointless.  All I’ll say is, can’t you see the difference between momentarily passing someone in a shop who’s infected, or squashed up next to them for 90 minutes in a stadium, and more than likely talking to them a foot apart, not 2 metres.

You seem really passionate in your views but imho, If no measures are taken now, we could find ourselves right in the shit again.  This virus has proved that by the time the numbers start rocketing, you’ve ‘missed the boat’ and it takes really drastic measures to try and get control again.

30 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

996 beds in southmead hospital and there are 50 beds occupied with covid patients right now, 60% of which are unvaccinated.  Hospitals are not overwhelmed with covid despite what is being said.  

That could change drastically if this new strain goes the wrong way.  You don’t react when the beds are full, you try to avoid that happening by reacting in advance.

Talk about being caught between a rock and a hard place.  This government is far from perfect, but you can guarantee that at sny given time, some are accusing them of not doing enough or too slowly, while others say they are over-reacting or rushing things.

I guess we can count ourselves lucky that we can all criticise, but don’t actually have to make the decisions that directly affect the whole population, but can never please everybody.

13 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

From the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control.

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/news-events/epidemiological-update-omicron-data-8-december

Don't forget the UK isn't in the EU. It's just that I've not seen any data on severity in the UK whereas this shows that - where any data is available - all cases are asymptomatic or mild. Obviously it's a small sample and the number of severe cases will be higher as cases rise BUT 337 mild or asymptomatic cases from the first 337 is going some and - if the data holds and it turns out less than one in 337 cases are serious - that would have to mean either the vaccines are holding up or something else is going right.

Ahh fair enough.  

It’s sounding promising, though its early days and it supposedly takes two or three weeks from infection before the hospitalisations start.

Let’s just hope this is a sign that it’s turning into something milder that we can just live with, but there could be plenty more twists and turns yet.

Just hope we don’t get the same shit every year, with yet another new strain appearing.

3 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I saw earlier data showing there are 331 cases of known Omicron  in the EU, with no known hospitalisations as of yesterday. There are presumably an unknown number of further cases where someone is either asymptomatic, refused to be tested or has not been identified as having Omicron. 

It's way too early to say that means Omicron is milder, or that it won't cause hospitalisations in the future. However it also surely suggests the vaccines are doing something? Agree it is an ill-thought out policy but an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The likelihood is vaccines have an impact. We just don't know how much yet. 

Not sure where you saw that info, but I’m sure they said in the briefing that there’s well over 500 cases in the UK alone now.  Said the rates in South Africa are doubling every two to three days.  Don’t now what their vaccination rates are for a comparison, but we could see the numbers here climbing very quickly.

Let’s just hope the rumours are right that this one isn’t as serious as Delta, otherwise we could potentially find ourselves without football again.

6 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

Of course, I haven't argued anything different.

It's worth remembering though that something can be racist even if the person saying it thinks it isn't. 

…. Or something might be perceived as racist by somebody when it actually wasn’t.  

Perception can be complicated and I refer back to what I said earlier ….. we need a bit more tolerance on both sides!

3 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

That's true.

But it's never meant "offended by hearing the F word on ITV4" and never will. 

Being offended by swearing is more of a gammon thing.

Therin lies the problem.  Hasn’t always been the way that for simplicity, many differing things get lumped together under the same umbrella.  

Not everyone wants or bothers to find out the differing names of these various groups and to be fair, the style of debate is often very similar, even if the subject matter varies.

I think you’ll have real difficulty separating them now in many people’s eyes and ‘woke’ seems to be the standard applied to them all, including by the media.  

A generic label you might say.

Anyway, reckon we’ll need to put this one to bed now, or we’ll be getting a slap for bringing politics onto the football forum!!!

7 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

It's not my definition. But it's what the word means.

Far better to angry about racism though than to be angry at people for being anti-racist. In my opinion of course. 

Fair point, but can you also accept people can also get angry when the racist label is very freely thrown around these days and is very often unwarranted?

2 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

It was not a comment on tolerance in society, it was a comment that people are using the word "woke" with no idea what it actually means.

And I guarantee that no "woke" people are complaining about hearing swearing on ITV4's football coverage. 

The point can be argued for evermore.  

Whether you blame the media, or society in general, woke has now become widely associated with being offended by and fighting against a wide range of issues and not just racial discrimination.

10 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

3. Really annoyed at hearing swearing on ITV4's football coverage. 

Not very healthy, as to ‘stay angry’ can make you very bitter and twisted and can breed negativity!

28 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

It's not an arrogant statement and there was nothing there that said you had to agree with my views.

If somebody hears an ITV4 commentator apologise for the crowd swearing, and immediately rants about "woke", then they clearly have no idea what the word "woke" even means.

"Woke" has absolutely nothing to do with swearing being heard on TV.

You might as well rant about "people are complaining about swearing at football! It's radishes gone mad" as that makes as much sense.

Well if you don’t think that sounds arrogant then I’ll leave that for others to make up their own minds.

I give you that the swearing at football isn’t a woke issue, but the current culture of complaining about just about anything in this country has now rightly or wrongly been brought under the ‘woke’ umbrella.

Just when we’re being told how we need to all be more tolerent in society (a brilliant thing imho), the perceived ‘wokes’ seem to be doing the exact opposite and your disparaging comment seemed to be a classic example of that.

29 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

And that arrogant statement is exactly what brings the negative perception of the anti-woke brigade.  Anyone who doesn't agree with the widespread acceptance of things that are not quite of the traditional "norm" immediately becomes "woke" and "PC bollocks" for those unable to avoid being to comprehend it. 

And yes, the comprehension statement is very deliberate because the argument against it often is accompanied with "What happened to he/she?", "Why can't they just be male/female" etc.

And you can jump off your high hirse too pal.  I thought that comment would flush out a couple of regulars and so it did.

When you get certain individuals who can’t accept people can have different opinions and continue to ram their own views down people’s throats, or call them stupid, bigots, racists or whatever, then you are looking at a woke. In most people’s eyes.  

The ability to also manage to get offended by just about anything that doesn’t fit their viewpoint and can’t accept those differences also appears to be a characteristic.  

If there was some acceptance of differing views it wouldn’t be an issue, but unfortunately that isn’t the case.

50 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

It's been a "woke" issue ever since the Daily Mail started using "woke" to describe anything that simple minded people get annoyed/confused by.

And that arrogant statement is exactly what brings the negative perception of the woke brigade.  Anyone who doesn’t agree with their views immediately becomes simple minded, confused or just plain racist.

10 minutes ago, Gumpster1 said:

I just wanted to moan about the role and perceived priorities of the Stewards.

I sit in the Dolman but I expect that this applies to other parts of the ground. A steward will stand at the top of the steps near the entrance/exit to the concourse for 85 minutes. They rarely have anything to do after kick off, bar occasionally having to tell a paying customer they can’t take a drink to their seat. In fact more often than not the Stewards get in the way of fan’s views and need to be reminded to move and will always do so in good humour.

However what really annoys me is that 5 minutes from time fans will start to leave their seats and hover by the exits, blocking the view of fans willing to stay in their seats until the end. At this point where are the Stewards? They have been moved to the perimeter to stop the regular pitch invasions we have at Ashton Gate.

If ever there was a time for effective ‘stewarding’ it’s at the end of the game yet they go awol from the time and place they are needed most.

 

 

 

To be honest, I can’t blame them getting pitch-side at the end of the game.

Given their comical demonstration of total absense of fitness and pace when ‘chasing’ our pitch invader yesterday, they certainly can’t risk giving anyone the chance of a head start!!! 
 

ps, was it only me that though that chase looked like it was in slow motion??

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I do wonder whether a small minority of our "fans" genuinely hate football including Bristol City FC and literally only get enjoyment out of slagging the Manager, players and the club off? Is it because of the money the players earn and there is a bit of jealousy in there, is their opinion so important to them that they would rather see us lose to prove themselves right than the be happy at club winning, is it because they are high flyers in life and the club cannot meet their massively high standards or are they just miserable bastards who have such a horrible and/or sad life that they cannot even enjoy a win with everyone else? We all like a good moan from time to time but surely after a game like last night you have to enjoy the moment.

I think some just like the attention, even if it’s just ridicule, so they’ll deliberately be controversial.

I’m actually surprised that mug from Hampshire hasn’t been on here, banging on about us being so lucky last night that it doesn’t even count as a win and Pearson should still go!

3 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

All the stats say we deserved to lose.  

…… shame the stats don’t show effort and tenacity, as we absolutely dominated them in that!

4 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

We were queueing at 7:44 when they just sort of abandoned doing the checks. 

Top tip for suicide bombers then is to turn up late.

Exactly this RR.  I got in a few minutes after KO on Saturday and just walked in past the 2 stewards on the turnstile and didn’t even realise there had been any security checks until I read it on here later.

As you say, if any terrorist wants to have the maximum effect, they can either hit the huge queue outside, or arrive late and get the maximum number of people inside the stadium.  

Sadly, it does make you feel like some of these things are done just for visual effect, rather than any real belief that they’ll actually prevent an incident.

21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

In a nutshell for me.  And vital that the talented youngsters get steered in the right direction by players who’ve won things.  We might not see Simpson (for example) shining on the pitch but if he’s passing on his nous and professionalism to Tanner then that’s a big plus.

Its not ideal to have a squad on u23s and 30-pluses (with very little in between), but I did like some of the “don’t you kick our kids” big-brother stuff on Saturday.  There was a sense of “all in it together”, and I think Baker and Williams aggressive intensity rubbed off on players like O’Dowda too, not just the young’uns.  Quite refreshing to see a normally physical Blackburn team, bleating at the ref, not us.

Hopefully not a one-off.

Completely with you there and that extra physicality on Saturday was probably the biggest plus for me.  I think people questioning why these older players were brought in need to look back at this game to get their answer.

It was great that Mobray described us as being ‘physical’ ….. talk about the pot calling the kettle black!  It certainly isn’t a term we’ve heard describing City for a very long time!

Its so refreshing to see our players giving as good as they get for a change, rather than just rolling over or hiding.  That’s definitely something to build on and let’s just hope NP has now decided on the nucleus of his squad going forward.  

For the first in quite a while, I really feel optimistic that we’ll finish the season comfortably, after being in freefall lately.

as to whether this was a one-off, we don’t have long to wait, as we’ll need more of that again tomorrow for sure.

3 minutes ago, One Team said:

Great post. 

It isn’t a coincidence at all that the only successful managers of the 20 years have been GJ and SC. Two uncompromising leaders who know how it’s done. 

It’s also no coincidence that SL failed on three occasions with the appointments of Tinnion, Millen and Holden. All decent men but poor football managers. 

Hopefully we’ve learnt something now and we can look forward positively with our current and any future appointments. 

Also makes you wonder if the biggest challenge NP may have been facing at this club could be a few players who were resisting their ‘cosy club’ being taken away.

It certainly felt at the end of last season that there were a few who seemed quite content to see us dropping like a stone and maybe hoped he’d get binned.

7 minutes ago, Super said:

Wilson can never be forgiven for that shit show in the playoff final.

Exactly!

Never forgive him for having Leroy Lita scoring for fun in the reserves and he wasn’t even named in the squad for the Final.  We’d struggled to break Brighton down a short time before iirc and we were really lacking firepower, at the time. 

There was no way back for Wilson for me after that toothless showing in the Final.  At least when we played Hull, we gave it a go, but that Brighton game was inexcusable.

Sure you’ve had many battles in your football career Nigel, so just think of this Covid virus as the most dislikeable sod you’ve ever come up against.  Keep that thought in your head then turn it onto that ******* virus and give it a right good kicking!

We’re rooting for you and really need you back fit and well, but your health comes first and it will take as long as it takes.  

Look after yourself and hoping we’ll see you back very soon.