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9 minutes ago, headhunter said:

I would agree with that. I guess it is about whether City hold their nerve for 12 months after which the chickens come home to roost in some shape or form with regards to FFP compliance.

David,

As per my earlier post, I don't think City are in a terrible position compared to a number of Championship clubs.

The 2019 results push the problem 12 months into the future, and hopefully by then the EFL will have come to their senses over 20-21, and future application of some sort of Salary Cap.

There will be a number of clubs that for this season here and now, have breached the FFP, as they don't have a 2019 season to include in their figures. Those clubs will be of more immediate  concern to the EFL in my view.

Big decisions to be made of course this Summer around all of the OOC's, Optional years, and players going into their last year of contract of course.

We could be looking at a vastly different team in August 2022 to the one that finishes this season.

27 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Yep, unless ffp changes we are in the shit,

Ffp will likely change and most of the division will be in the same shit 

I don't see us as being alone in the FFP  situation of course.

We are the only club in the Championship to have released 2021 accounts, and I reckon a number of clubs results will be worse than ours.

With the 2019 results keeping us within guidelines for this season, there will be Championship clubs that don't have that luxury, and will fail the FFP for this season, and will of course be of more immediate concern for the EFL.

Moving forward the situation has to change of course. How can the Championship, L1 & L2 have different systems? And of course, how competitive can the Championship be under FFP with the PPs that a number of clubs are getting for 3 years. It's all getting a bit farcical now.

I can see a situation where the EFL when confronted by the 20/21 figures, just concede that the clubs shouldn't be penalised due to "Act of God"; and are given a free pass. The system then has to change to some form of Salary cap for all three leagues that is consistent across the board. They then have to figure out how to strip out these PP's out of the Salary Cap situation, to allow the Championship once again to be a competitive division. 

Not going to be an easy one for them to manage, that's for sure.

Just heard that so far City have sold only 3900 tickets, with Fulham just under 400.

I think it's fair to say that City has got this badly wrong.I know of loads of fellow ST'S that like me aren't going.

Adult tickets around the £10-12 mark would have at least guaranteed a crowd of around 15k, and the subsequent takings in the concourse.

I really hoped the days of poor decisions like this were behind us. This is a reminder that we still have some way to go.

Yep, strange pricing structure by the club, on the basis of the amount of home games in the last few weeks; and of course the expense of Christmas

No doubt our Chairman will be on the club site at some stage to justify it all   

27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yet the all-knowing Ian Gay, critical of his selection on Saturday, was a big advocate of him playing last season?  He’s 6’2” and likes a tackle.  So why was he happy last season to select a less experienced, less physically developed player but not now?

I wonder if Towler hadn't got a yellow card, whether Pearson would have been as quick to make the change at Half time?

Ultimately the Championship is an unforgiving league, and young players will make mistakes. The only way they are going to learn, and improve though is being given the opportunities. It's a hugely difficult balancing act in Championship, where the margins between victory and defeat are so narrow.

Sometimes it'll work, sometimes it won't. But I applaud NP for at least giving young players the opportunities. The endless days of sending out young players on loan, and holding on to them until they're 23 or 24 are hopefully over.

If the coach thinks they're good enough, and they show the right application in training; then give them the chance. That's all young players want at the end of the day, the opportunity to be a part of the team. What is the incentive for them to improve, if they feel that whatever they do, they won't be given a chance.

As Pring as said, all those years on the fringes; not feeling part of the team. We now seem to have a feel of a first team squad, and if you're "Not of the bus"; then you're gone.

My eldest son is now 16. Although he's still playing Junior football. He's now playing in Senior men's in the Somerset District League as well. He's a centre back; and although 6ft 2, the physicality; and speed of the game will take him some time to adjust. 

He will make mistakes, and he'll have to learn from them; and hopefully come back wiser, and stronger.

I'm sure Towler will get the necessary advice based on his performance on Sunday, and hopefully come back stronger for it.

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Save me typing it again!

I’m sure you all know my views on Nige and that I see him as the man to rebuild us (even if he isn’t the man to take us to the next step as the “manager” itself).

I think he shows a huge responsibility and accountability for the role he has.

Bollox to his 40 game record, yes, I’m being selective, but the record that is important to me is the one this season.  8-6-11 (30/25) isn’t earth shattering, but it’s the base for improvement.  Future success won’t come by Willy-nilly manager changes because we lose a couple / few on the trot.

He gambled a bit on Towler and Benarous today, but he reacted.  We are not a great squad, and to make it harder, we are inconsistent too.  I think the 11 players that started the second half were better than the first half 11, but a couple of mistakes made them look a lot worse if you look at score line.

I just feel massively patient.

In some ways, this evolution feels akin to Terry Cooper's in 82-83. Financial pressures, and experienced players leaving the club; have forced the introduction over the last 12 months of young players into the starting 11.

The championship is an unforgiving league, where there are small margins in 75% of the games (1 goal difference). It's hardly the best place to blood youngsters, and give them the necessary experience, which will come coupled with making mistakes; and hopefully learning from them. As NP says "We know where we are as a club".

The club as a whole is undergoing a massive evolution (Millions being shaved of Operating Costs, and hundreds of employees being let go from all departments). Whether that would have happened so quickly without Covid, we don't know. But it probably needed to happen a lot earlier than it did.

Unlike the 82-83 side, we are in the second division of the country; and having to deal with a massive unfair playing disadvantage forced upon us by FFP, and Parachute payments. Supporter's expectations after the perceived highs of 2017/18 are still probably a little bit too high. But unlike 2013, we're not at the bottom of the league, and in some ways are performing above expectation. I realise the team's actual performances have been poor on occasion. But where would we be as a club without the 6 x 90+ min goals against us. We are certainly not the basket case of a team now that we were in the latter part of the 20-21 season.

The 3 year timescale that NP talks about, is not necessarily one based on "Give me time to sort out this mess". It's more based on the fact that all of the highest paid players at the club's contracts finish in Summer 2023 (Hence the 3 years).  At that time, the manager in charge will have a lot more scope to completely rejig the squad, and be free of all of the financial constraints that are currently haunting us.

The club as a whole, from a financial point of view would be better off in L1, without the financial limitations. But you only have to look at some of the clubs in L1 now, to see how competitive a league that is. There are no guarantees that if we are relegated, that we would be able to get back into the Championship for a number of years. The gulf now between L1 to Championship looks huge from a playing standpoint (Hull, Peterborough smashed that league last year).

It's been a horrible 12 months supporting this club, with very few high points. But at least now, I can see a sense of purpose, and direction. We're a very average Championship as per NP's comments. We will win some, and lose some; and on occasion put in a dreadful performance. But to change Manager now would cause the club to lose sight once again of the end goal. Which is by the end of the 22/23 season, to be a better team on the pitch, with a better run club beind it providing the impetuous to finally after 40+ years to get into the PL. 

Now once again, deep breaths; and strap ourselves in for the second half of the season; and the fallout that will come with our next loss. 

14 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Bialkowski now has 2 assists for us, today he passed to Weimann & v Ipswich away a few seasons ago he managed to divert Famara’s header that was going wide, into the net.

Can’t imagine many other opposition keepers have done this.

He's a strange keeper isn't he?

Always seems to be of the verge of some calamity or something. But obviously does some things right, as has played pretty much every game for Millwall in the last 3 seasons; as well as about 200 appearances for Ipswich before then as well.

Not a player that I've ever looked at, and thought "I wish he played for us"

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

If it’s not Covid, the other possible reason is he’s having that “drop-off” that often happens with young players, players who’ve not played at this level before.  He played a lot of minutes early season, and he will hopefully come back to form again.

Yep, not looking for a conspiracy on this; but when he comes on at the moment, his body language looks like someone shorn of confidence.

Physically for me, he still loses far too many battles; and seems to be bullied on the field.

There is a player there though, and one that can hopefully still develop. Tough ask to be playing Championship in a struggling team after playing league football for only 2 years. It's a massive step up from L1.

You only have to see how Hull, and Peterborough have struggled this season, after smashing it in L1 last year.

Yep, mentioned it in the match thread. He was doing sprints to the half way line and back by himself with a coach.

Bizarre in the extreme.

Maybe he wanted one final go on the pitch, rather than up at Failand?

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

He must be carry some injury or fatigue.

Some mention of him still suffering from the effects of covid. His body language when he does come on is quite timid and passive. Whether it's a confidence, or physical thing is up for debate.

Certainly not the player we saw in the first few months of the season anyhow.

56 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I said to someone on the way out of the ground that, bar maybe Bobby Reid, I can't remember a player who works so hard for his goals. He deserves his current run that's for sure. 12 goals and 4 assists in a bottom half team is a great return.

He is not a Rolls Royce of a player by any stretch of the imagination, there are times when he barely looks in control of the ball, but he is our Toyota, he keeps going, whatever is put in front of him. 

People often moan that we never get the best out of players, but this is the best goal return of his career, so I think we can see him as an exception to that comment.

I think the thing with AW is that he drifts in games; and sometimes is completely anonymous (QPR for example).

We need to get him involved in the games, and maybe the way to do that is by playing him centrally. 

He certainly on current form, is the best finisher at the club. Our movement in the central forward positions has been poor for a while. If Wells is not going to be playing, and Martin playing some role off the bench in the foreseeable future. We could do a lot worse than playing Weimann in the middle of the front three. With Semenyeo moving over to the right wing; and Scott (I know it wasn't his best game today in this position) behind in the 10 role.

Just now, Slippin cider said:

Not really, he’s lazy …

Looks more like something akin to a school detention for me.... 

Making Palmer train by himself on the pitch before the game doing sprints between the half way line does seem a bit petty doesn't it?

11 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Looks like 4-3-3 to me 

Even Scott isn't sure of that lineup 

Well there's not a lot of trust for Massengo or Atkinson at the moment by the look of it.

The average age of the team is now reminding me of circa 82-83 under TC in Div 4.

2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I actually preferred Little to Tavanier when we had both.

Hunt was probably on quite decent money. Seems like he was released though wasn't he? I assume we didnt even offer him a lower wage.

Great pairing all round for us. Wonderful recruitment at the time. Not unlike the rest of the L1 squad that Cotts put together.

I know he doesn't get much credit but SOD played a major part in our future league winning side as well of course.

11 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

If Simpson plays very little for the rest of his time here then we might as well have just had Tanner and Vyner as right backs imo.

But ideally we could have looked to have signed someone else.

Laird, Sterling, Spence, Kane. 

Sanderson who is more a centre back but has played right back a fair bit too.

Or if wing backs then Jordan Graham on a free.

Maybe even Nathan Thompson on a free before he signed a new deal with Peterborough.

All frees or loans.

I don't necessarily rate all those but just examples that could either be good or do a job at this level.

I didnt rate Jack Hunt in the end, but I expect he was an option to keep on.

Wasn't Hunt on quite big money? I'm sure Weds would have outbid us, if we had wanted to keep him.

Amazed that he actually made over 100 appearances for us.

Was trying to think of the last really decent right back we had, and settled on Tavenier. I would have loved him to have signed after the promotion season.

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

If Vyner plays at right back with Tanner out then that really does suggest to me that Pearson realises he made a mistake bringing in Simpson.

I am sure Pearson will want Vyner to stay alongside Kalas, and moving Vyner to right back will suggest to me he doesnt trust Simpson.

I am sure there would have been other options in the summer at right back.

No idea how much Simpson earns. I judge a signing on what they do on the pitch. And if Simpson does not play well or is not even trusted to play then it is a bad signing imo.

I think anyone who was at WBA, and saw his quite frankly pathetic attempt at a back pass, would understand why he hasn't been playing since.

Vyner isn't the answer at RB either, even though he had one of his best games for the club in my view on Thursday.

It would have been interesting to see whether if he was on the bench for the QPR game he would have come on for Tanner, rather than the Atkinson sub.

For me, an upgrade in both full back positions is a priority, particularly if JD isn't playing/off.

18 hours ago, GrahamC said:

According to the journalist who covers Woking, he is on his way back to us.

Not gone too well for him there, 3 starts, 1 sub appearance & no goals.

Expect he will be off on loan somewhere else soon.

Was it only for a month anyhow?

I know what you mean though. He's a bit like Hinds at the moment. Looks impressive enough in the Under 23s; but is unable to carry those performances into loans.

I've no doubt that if/when he's released at the end of the season, he'll get a contract from a L2 club (hopefully not the one in Horfield though).

12 hours ago, City1970 said:

Thanks for the update, I didn’t realise McCarthy had personal loss to deal with, I’m sorry for that.

what I do remember, is that I was at that Preston game.

If I can’t remember the facts, it’s time for me to leave this forum.

You must remember Mccarthy goal and subsequent celebration then?

I think the stands are still shaking....

23 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

You can't just "move them on" - you will literally be struggling to give them away or wait for the end of contract.

Ala Nagy....

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Nathan Baker on loan too.  Liam Moore too, although he suffered a hernia and we never saw the best of him…he’s proved throughout his time he’s a top-Champ CB.

Think we have to understand that other clubs won’t necessarily be able to meet their wage demands either.  They will’ve seen Weimann take a 50% paycut (and Baker), amid interest elsewhere, so they will know the landscape has changed.

If it were me, I’d try to re-contract the ones you need to keep by either staggering their wage decrease, or smooth it through a longer term.

Not saying that will be easy, nor we might see some leave, but some players might realise that agent promises aren’t worth a lot currently.

Agree on last para 100%.

I agree that other clubs might struggle. But we need to create room in our budget to recruit new players as well.

If the players coming into their last year aren't willing to negotiate; then we need to move them on.

As for COD and Martin. It'll be interesting as to where their offers might come from. A lot of money in L1 nowadays....

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

All season Nige has been talking about a trimmer squad…now you know why.

Richard Gould stated we need to maximise every pound spent…that means try to move on those squad members not playing.

Nige (Manager) and Gould (CEO) aligned….is a good start.  It’s why Nige has been open about moving on players.  It won’t be easy though.

Both deserve some credit for taking on this challenge.  I trust them.  That’s not saying they will achieve, but I trust them to do the right thing.  I cannot say that about the previous CEO, and I think the “bad side” of LJ (he had good things too) was that he pushed and pushed for more and was allowed to do so.  Yeah, he had to sell players, but he got to invest a bloody big portion of that money (fees and wages), more than a sustainable model suggests he should have.

Well that's the end of any new contracts for Kalas, Bentley, COD, HNM and Martin in the summer then? Kalas, Bentley and HNM entering final year, so will still have some value.

Simply can't afford to get anywhere near either what they are currently on, or in the case of HNM & Bentley in particular what they will want. Can't afford just to write their value off either, like we did with Nagy.

Followed on by getting rid one way or another of KP,JD and Wells off the wage bill. Going to have to take a massive hit on their values just to get rid of them.

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

 

Wow. 

Final year of contracts is normally the highest earning for players, as well as some getting "loyalty bonuses" for seeing out their contracts no doubt.

The irony of it all.....

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Let’s see….not convinced by that.  Ours are down to a ridiculously high cost base.  There are a few that might be in the same boat, but FFP-wise many will be fine, because they have a cost base 40-60% of ours and it’s slightly easier to absorb.

Thats my guess anyway.  I’m not including Reading and Derby in that though.

Afternoon @Davefevs.

I know we had a discussion on the FFP thread around the City High cost base. It's never been resolved has it?

In essence, outside of wages; City's operating costs for the last season seem to still be around £25m. Almost twice that of clubs of the same turnover as us in the division.

City don't break down what these operating costs are in the accounts (yet again). But they seem to be a major millstone around our necks moving forward. Regardless of transfer income, and getting wages down; this operatings costs is out of all proportion to the size of the business.