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I was just about to post on this Rob. So if i've got this right. The gas sell the memorial stadium to the developers for housing. They are then afforded the right to build their new stadium on the fruit market site (max 20k capacity). They will not own this new stadium, the developers will, and the Gas will have to rent it from them? Sounds like Eastville all over again. So if this goes ahead, the Gas will not own their own stadium once again, and the money from the sale of land in Horfield will no doubt be on it's way to various coffers in the Middle East as it's probably not needed for the building of the aforementioned stadium. In fact this sounds like Coventry City, and Hull as well. The developers seem to be having the Gas royally over here. If i was the Gas i would develop the Horfield site, not the developers. Selling it would only realise about 30% of the potential profit. It seems like the developers are saying though, if you don't sell the Memorial Stadium to us, you can't come; and rent your new stadium on our site at the Fruit Market. What an absolute rubbish deal for the Gasheads....

@Fordy62 Mate, as long as the OIC/CPS have done their MG16 (Bad Character application. Then the jury will be told in advance of their deliberations of Barton's previous convictions. Unless of course, the defence have won a legal argument that it is prejudicial. I can't believe the Judge wouldn't have allowed it though, it is relevant. The QC can only accuse the witness of lying, if he changes his evidence during testimony. They will phrase it "I put it to you Mr Stendal that you tripped". Stendal "No, i was pushed". Nowhere for the QC to go there. If Stendal went "i can't be sure", then the QC could pursue it further with "well want can you be sure about then?". "I put it to you, that you can't be sure of anything anymore etc". As long as the witnesses stick to their guns, then they can't be accused of lying. I think the QC in his closing speech,(they always go last of course); will say " you may think that the witnesses colluded with one another to frame my client, that is a matter for you with your deliberations". Subtly put, but not directly saying they are lying.

100%, it would be the duty of Barton's Qc under cross examination to undermine his evidence. He will try to make that point of course in his closing speech, that all the Barnsley employees are against poor old Joey; and that Stendal probably tripped.

I kind of agree to a point. However the maximum sentence for a S47 ABH is the same as a S20 GBH (5 years max). Any sentence over 2 years can't be suspended. Barton has already done two custodial sentences for violent offences. Within the sentencing you have categories A,B,C and then 1,2,3 within each subset. The fact that Barton hasn't pleaded to it, despite the evidence we have heard so far, means that he will get no credit. His previous convictions will be an aggravating factor, as well as the premeditation in the assault (Swerving to hit a man from behind, plus the stuff going on in the match itself). He is also a public figure, and the Judge will come down heavily on him i reckon. Possibly just under the 2 years. This is where having a privately funded defence makes a huge difference (QC for an ABH trial, probably on no less than £5k per day in court, plus previous hearings; it would be interesting to know who is paying his bills). In the event of a guilty verdict, they will go the extra mile to keep him out of prison. As for the domestic. It's a victimless crime. Unless his wife had supplied evidence in written or video form to the court, she won't be giving testimony; and and court won't be expecting it. They will play the 999 call, and the BWV. Which will probably include disclosures by her, the other people present; and Barton being allegedly drunk, and aggressive (hence the call to the Police in the first place). A decent District Judge will see exactly what has happened, and hopefully come to the right conclusions. These victimless crimes do not get to Court unless their is overwhelming evidence, as the CPS are notoriously risk averse of prosecuting such crimes. Before BWV, it was a very rare prosecution. I'm still amazed hiw such a violent individual (as well as 2 x custody, there are various other convictions) be allowed to manage a club? He would never pass a CRB check to work with children or young adults in any other form of life. Astounding the message being given out to the world at large by the Gas, not to have him on at least gardening leave (like Giggs). Particulary after the domestic that was allegedly committed whilst on Crown Court Bail for the first offence.

I'm sure i've read somewhere that a witness actually saw him swerve into him from begind deliberately, and then Stendal hit the post?

Will be 999 call, body cam accounts. Probably with Mrs Barton realising that Joey was already on bail for the Crown Court assault, and trying to back track what she initially said. In the past, we wouldn't have been able to evidence the injury (head injury i believe) or her account; but with the BWV nowadays, it's a classic victimless prosecution. Where a violent offender (due to his previous) has allegedly assaulted his wife. In front of a District Judge in a Magistrates Court with no jury. He will have sight of all of this. She will obviously give evidence (if he's not already in prison), to say it was an accident, and they were all drunk etc. But unlike a jury, the Judge will have seen this all before. I would find it bizarre, if the Judge was to find that it was indeed an accident; particulary when you consider the violence against women movement at the moment; and the fact that it has already been through a number of hearings. Barton's alleged drunken demeanour will also play a big part ( all on BWV as well). Interesting times ahead....

@Fordy62 In some ways though, the fact that he's already been to prison twice, limits the Judge's non-custodial sentencing options. Anything under 2 years can be suspended anyhow. I'm going for 18 months, suspended for 2 years. However what happens with the domestic trial. Do they activate his suspended sentence, as it was committed whilst on bail for this offence. The DJ can only sentence for 6 months as summary only offence. However he would be mindful of his previous, offence committed on bail. It's rare for the CPS to keep pushing a battery charge on a victimless case. It's had 4 hearings where evidently the defence has tried to have it thrown out. All refused. I've always thought he was more likely to get potted on that case.

I thought Salary caps had been scraped in L1 & L2, as the clubs appealed against the new system being bought in, and won. Hence:- The EFL Withdraws Salary Caps on League One and Two - Blaser Mills Law From February this year. The EFL tried to change the system the year before.

All out of likes today ? Going to have to become an OITB supporter.....

Blackburn, it was Poveda.

Thank you, is that still the case though? This article is from 2015, and of course talks about the SCMP, that no longer exists. I know that the regulations have been tightened up in recent seasons after Birmingham, Sheff Wed, Derby and Reading fell foul. I would be surprised though if the EFL allowed League 1 clubs to be punished through FFP for spending monies that were not subject to FFP regulations when it was spent (if that makes sense). It would be interesting to see what happens with clubs that drop from the PL down to Champ. I know the parachute payments scu it, But in theory if a club lost £50m in the PL, in 21/22 season, and then dropped into the Champ. Would that loss be taken forward into FFP as well? Maybe one for @Mr Popodopolous

I agree that over the course of the last 20 games, generally we have been disappointing. For me the worst parts are of course the 7 points dropped at home to Blackpool, Luton, and of course the nadir Forest. I've been encouraged though by the way the side has fought in the last two home games though to right those wrongs (Blackburn, and Stoke). We dug in, and arguably against both of them finished the last 10 minutes stronger. Unfortunately away performances have fallen off a cliff at the same time, so of course overall we are seeing no uplift in our league position.

He made no attempt to avoid falling directly onto the player, right in front of the Dolman. It was something akin to a WWE move. I think at the time we didn't realise quite how badly injured the lad on loan from Leeds was. He had been diving, or looking for a foul all during that first half. So there was a period of quite enjoying seeing a City player being physical, and putting one on him. I feel a bit bad about it now, in all honesty.

I believe the club has shaved around a third off the wage bill from last year. A lot of that huge wage bill was the player's coming to the end of their contracts. It's still sometimes the case that players get "loyalty" bonuses for seeing out a contract, plus the last year's wage is normally at a higher level. So let's suppose we are operating at around the £25m mark at present (as opposed to the £35m of last season). I have no idea whether that is a level at which we can operate within the constraints of FFP, as none of us has any idea of the income streams at the club at the moment. It may be the level we can work out, we may have to drop it even more; time will tell. The squad is of course unbalanced, with a number of what I would call "legacy" players, ie players on contracts that we entered into in better times; and can't really afford anymore. At the top end will be players like Kalas, Palmer, Wells & JD. Then the next bracket Bentley, COD, Weimann (until renegotiated), Martin. The first four I would estimate are collectively I would say on around £5m per year. That's 20% of your total playing budget, and of those 4, only Kalas is now what i would call in the starting 11. Bentley, COD, Martin are more productive in terms of their minutes/goals/games, but maybe an expensive luxury that the club will need to make a decision on next summer. I've no doubt that in a perfect world we would look to trade Palmer, Wells & JD; and re-sign Kalas, Bentley, Martin; not sure about COD just yet, to new contracts. The reality, as shown by the Nagy transfer is that the market is dead for those sort of players, and with two years left on their contracts we are either stuck with them, or heavily subsidising loans elsewhere. We are already short on numbers (NP wanting a smaller squad + injuries). Can we afford to lose further players, when financially it takes us no further forward. For instance, you loan out Palmer, we would be paying 75% of his wages I reckon at least. For him to be playing for someone else. That only makes sense if we are able to get someone else in for that remaining 25% of his contract (a tall order at best) who would take us forward as a club. Then we come to players like Kalas, Bentley, Martin, Massengo, COD. All entering their final years (if we take up the option on COD). I can't believe Kalas, and Bentley will take a pay drop at their stage of their careers. Likewise Massengo, and Martin will get offers from the new riches of L1. So even the players that you want to keep, you probably can't; and the ones you don't (on good contracts) are probably impossible to get rid of; without some form of payoff (Nagy). In the meantime. The club is trying to formulate what budgets they have moving forward. Who knows what we lost last season due to Covid, and that of course affects your playing budget moving forwards. The crowds haven't been too bad this season, but that won't continue of course; and a large number probably won't renew. It's all a bit of a perfect storm financially for the new unfortunately. Made of course, by the Senior Leadership Team (All culpable) trying to make the club self sustainable through some form of Ponzi financial scheme of buy low, train, sell high. With no thought given to continuity of the squad moving forward. I believe the only exception to this was when LJ insisted that if he couldn't have Webster, then he wouldn't sell Flint. Sometimes the players know more about what's happening than we give them credit for. Bryan, Reid, Webster, Kodjia, Elliason, Brownhill; all wanted to go. Flint had it written into his new contract (as did Brownhill of course). Got a decent fee for Pack, and Kelly. You can't stop these players going if they're ambitious, it just shows that they felt that if they stayed at the club, then they wouldn't be able to attain those ambitions. That for me is the greatest shame of the last 3/4 years. It feels like we've lost a bit of a golden generation of players. MA was obviously tasked with making the club self sustainable; and felt that his wheeler dealer approach was the best way for that to happen. What is noticable is of course, that this all didn't happen over one or two transfer windows. It was allowed to happen over the course of 3-4 years. Even the Kelly money was brought forward one season, so we could have the magical "first profit in 20 years" headline. It was in fact just stealing from Peter to pay Paul. The Lansdowns had become fixated on infrastructure (AG & Failand). That of course needed doing 10-15 years ago (The new stadium debacle took far too long). If it had been done then. Then maybe the income generated would have put us on a firmer footing financially then to push forward. Now we are left with improved facilities, and a much poorer squad of players, that as I mentioned above; are almost impossible to change until the summer of 2023. At the moment, we probably have a L1 squad, trying to stay in the Championship, but hindered by a still large immobile wage bill. When NP said it would take 3 years, he knew already that by that date (2023), their would be more flexibility financially to craft a team. As NP said after the Sheffield game "We know where we are as a team". Yes, we are poor; but with a few loans/new bodies in Jan (Thank god for a transfer window); I'm still hopeful that we can be better than at least 3 teams over the course of 46 games. It's hard going at the moment. But periods of play like the first half against Blackburn recently, show me that there is hope. We just have to keep going, unlike last season, where certain players just gave up,

Thanks. Can't help feeling that if the Lansdowns were to sell City, then the momentum behind the project would be lost though somehow. Hence, why they are looking for "Investment" at this stage, rather than an actual buyer. That position may well change of course, if this Village doesn't get planning permission, or after it is actually built; and everybody takes their proverbial piece of the pie.

Do the fans still hold 1% of the share holding? I remember being contacted for my shares by Pula Sport last year. Offering £10 per share. If i turned it down, they were using some form of compulsory purchase to turn that share into capital that would be used in the Academy? Not sure if I've got that completely right, it's been a long 21 months for everyone. I've been buying and selling City shares for a long time through Cartwrights, and then Burgess Salmon Solicitors. Had some in 1982, than a Silver share subscriber in the 90's.

Apologies in the way I phrased it @ExiledAjax I meant without City, the rest of the organisation (Bears possibly excluded) looks somewhat low key. In other topics on this forum, we spoke about the Sports village, and how key City would be to that as a project. Without the Jewel in the Crown of AG (and City), no doubt the key individual's concerned would struggle to make the financial gains out of the project, that they no doubt hope to attain.

That worked out for Sunderland, Charlton, Ipswich. Sheff Wed are struggling to make an impact in 7th. Portsmouth & Bolton kept on going down and down, before coming back up. Tough league to get out from League 1. The top 4 are Rotherham, Wigan, Wycombe & Plymouth. The first three have obviously been able to keep together the makings of a good side; and Wigan have benefitted from new owners, and no salary caps in L1 making them a more attractive destination to possible Champ sides.

Absolutely Graham. There was a mass of dark arts going on at the Stoke game right from the off. Reminded me of how Swansea were against us at the start of the season. Because of our lack of possession, we are now trying every trick in the book to break up play, and potentially use up the clock. How Baker avoided getting a yellow for his throws against Stoke + Kalas drying down the ball every time, even when the ball got thrown in; only to get knocked out straight away. When Baker broke the guy's leg it was a blatant attempt to "leave a mark on him". Kicking the ball away, or in Bennarous's case player's boots. It's all an attempt to make us hard to beat, and annoy the opposition. Unfortunately gone are the days of having the hard men, that can pull off that level of intimidation. Nowadays we are relying on 18 & 19 year olds to have that bite. Better teams aren't flustered by it, and go about playing their game.

Or who can forget Ray Atteveld's superb lob over Welch I think. Premiership quality at it's best.?

Thanks @ExiledAjax that's a really good, clear way of explaining the structure of Bristol Sport. It shows for me, how difficult it would be for another owner to come in, and just buy Bristol City. They would probably have to buy the whole concept. As without the football club, the whole Bristol Sport concept would begin to fail.

Strange one with Simpson, as others have said. He didn't exactly pull up any trees last season when he was on that short term contract. I know he's probably on a relatively low wage for a man of his experience. But that is a wage that we can't give to anyone else at the moment, due to the contract we've given him. I've no doubt there will be a parting of the ways in the Jan window; and there's no way we are exercising that second year option. Looking at the midfield at the moment, probably the decision to in effect give Simpson, and King a contract was perhaps a mistake. But at the time, NP wanted more experience in the side. Little did he know that Simpson (I still shudder over perhaps the worst attempt at a backpass I've see from a City player at WBA) levels would drop so badly as they did. He was appalling against Villa in the pre-season as well. No doubt at that stage alarm bells were ringing, and the rush to get Tanner on board started. I wouldn't be surprised if we go out in the loan market to get 2 x full backs next month. The two playing there at the moment, are generally trying their best; but are not, and have never been full back/wing backs. The same goes for Weimann.

For me the last 3 years have been akin to the period after GJ left. A gradual dropping down the division, with a bit of a miracle escape in 2011/12 (Chris Wood was great loan signing for us). Followed by the inevitable relegation the following season. 1999/00, and 2012/13 were poor seasons. But at least we had some hope; and could see the commitment of the players. The last year or so, has been generally very poor. If last season consisted of only 30 games stretching from Jan to May, we would have been bottom by at least 10 points. My only hope for this season is that there are 3 worse teams than us. At present Peterborough, Barnsley, and Derby (thank god for the -21 points ) are doing sterling work in that regard. But we can't rely on that carrying on. At some stage, one of them will pick up. We need the equivalent points of 8-9 wins to be safe i reckon. A bit of a tall order at present. But the Jan window is only a month away, and let's see what it brings. I'm not expecting miracles from the board (FFP is, what it is). But maybe, just maybe the introduction of 2-3 loans (with NP having to take back his view on loans) will get us over the line. In the meantime, it feels like we are scrapping in a tough division without the requisite squad. Looking at @Davefevs squad contract list. It's obviously the end of the 22/23 season when we are in the best position to make changes. The players OOC in the summer will only give us minor scope to improve the squad. It's tough this, isn't it?

I'm guessing that FFP only applies to seasons that the club has in the Championship? Can't imagine the EFL can impose conditions stemming from when you weren't in the competition? So if Ipswich came up (unlikely given their season so far), they would have 3 years before the proverbial hits the fan.

Yep, and they're all really chuffed to have "volunteered" to do it for the benefit of the club?