hinsleburg

I've not read the whole thread but what stuck out for me today was a lack of fight.

There had been such a culture shift within the club last few years and we had a squad of players who would outwork and outfight teams every week. I'm not on about being better physically but having the desire to win 2nd and 3rd balls, that same squad of players mentality has shifted overnight seemingly. Without getting into detail or old debates, I actually think Pearson and Rennie delivered one of the fittest squads I've ever seen and that includes mental fitness too. I'm not talking about injuries,but in terms of 90 minutes we went from whistle to whistle and didn't stop! I'm not qualified to discuss (or about as qualified as Lansdown I guess...) to discuss if this did have an impact on injuries or availability but I miss heading down to city knowing every individual would put a shift in and be accountable.

We look sluggish, unmotivated and generally lacking ideas. I said earlier this week sack at end of season if no improvement, but today was enough for me. He should be gone by lunchtime but he won't be.

I think there needs to be a tangible improvement in the style and clear signs of Implementation even with the personnel that we've got. I do actually think there's been glimpses of improvement and spells in games where it seems to be working but largely our style of play has been ineffective.

I appreciate it takes time to embed and implement and think the end of the season gives us enough time to assess and judge if there's enough there or if a change of tact is needed. Whilst the argument will be 'we can't keep changing plans' if it's not working with the 'Top 6 squad' we've got then ultimately it's not going to work at all. I'm not expecting us to be 2010 Barcelona but there should be consistent signs as a group and individually of methods working. This means the squad needs a 'tweak' in the summer and not a '3 window rebuild' as it undermines and contradicts everything the board has said previously.

Maybe we're at the 'needs to get worse before it gets better stage' but it needs to start getting better by the end of the season, otherwise we're sleep walking into a season of, at absolute best, mediocrity.

Think Tommy will go in a cut price deal this summer to one of the relegated clubs. 

Can see him scoring 20 next season at this level in the right side and think someone will get a bargain as think we will cash in and it won't be a lot 

19 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

It is a game of opinions. Tins recruits well and develops player well. He doesn't need to be the best educated person in the club to do his job. Forget the snobbery and try to appreciate his contribution.

Sorry I disagree.

In the job he's in now he's arguably our most public senior figure given Jon's reluctance to come out. Therefore everything he does or says isn't just a reflection on him but also the club and quite frankly it's embarrassing at times. Not just spelling or grammar 'snobbery' but having social media tantrums and goading people.

We need to forget about where he's succeeded (and failed arguably) and assess on the job he's doing right now. In my opinion the club governance and structure is a shambles and in his position he is very largely responsible for that.

12 minutes ago, Spoons said:

What gets me is everyone can point there anger at Tinman, SL , JL , manning or Pearson etc etc……. Meanwhile the players get away absolutely no mention

Because most of us are in agreement that they're a midtable squad of players and are performing where we would expect.

There's no lack of effort of endeavour there, we are just a young side full of inconsistency.

Contrast that to the public messages coming out of the club and you think we've got a squad like 2008 Spain.

Without wishing to go back to this shape immediately, I think he'd look brilliant as the LCB of a back 3!

Can see him transitioning to CB longer term as seems to have the right physical attributes to do it. I also get the feeling if we keep getting him minutes he'll get better and better with more match fitness.

A back 4 of McCrorie, Vyner, Dickie, Roberts on Saturday certainly looks solid and seem to compliment each others attributes quite well. 

Tough problem to have as subject to a good game Saturday could argue deserves to keep his place ahead of Pring. Competition is well and good but need to manage it correctly, felt Cornick was harsh to be dropped for Tuesday but came on and made a good impact. But then do either Bell or Mehmeti deserve to get dropped after Tuesday's showing...? Somebody's going to be unhappy especially if Twine then comes back in as well (which I wouldn't agree with unless resting or dropping Knight deeper and playing him in the 10...)

Starting to feel like a top half Championship squad but means nothing if it's not one at the start of next season

9 minutes ago, westonred said:

For those who havent seen it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68235324

Apologies if it's been done to death on this thread but was VAR in use last night?

Be interested in seeing the Forest goal from another angle and what part of the body it came off...

Weird one but could be smart depending on the fee...

I've not listened to Mannings presa conference but the narrative on there suggested he was frustrated at a player not signing in time to play tomorrow. Implies another is due unless the terms of this deal were changed last minute to get it done 

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

For me, formation doesn’t dictate style of play.  What we are seeing is that under the set-up used over the past few games (I’ll call it a back 3 with WBs, LM might not!) that we are driven to playing down the sides in “settled build-up” and finding it difficult to create once we try to go inside.

I think what you are describing is your view of what style pleases you, and that appears to be a bit more pragmatic, helterskelter football.  I’m probably more aligned to you, I prefer that more too.  What others are enjoying is a more passing style.  FWIW I enjoyed Friday night’s performance, but I want to see that exploit a Championship opponent.  Then I might start to have belief.

Under both Nige and LM this season, we’ve been sound defensively, but struggled for goals, so style and whichever one each of us prefers isn’t really having any real tangible difference.  The cynic in me says that the hierarchy thought the answer to our goal struggles (and therefore results) was a new head-coach, more coaching on the grass and soundbites like front foot football.

I think my concern is, this passing style right now isn't leading to loads of chances and opportunities. That's not to say it won't with slightly different personnel and time but not sure it's what we need right now.

I guess the other argument is 'if not now then when'. I've been critical of the Twine signing without an option, we aren't going up or down and there's a strong chance we won't sign him end of season so see it as a waste. However, it would then be hypocritical of me to not allow the chance for this new style and approach to develop and embed. We look good in between both boxes but how do we convert that to goals? The answer is probably time coaching, patience and a slight personnel tweak so there isn't a better time for two of those things. I think personally, we've seen enough to give it a chance and get behind it.

It's a really tough one, I think what I want to see would lead to more goals the next 6 months, would it lead to more over the next 12, arguably not!

If we are sticking with this formation for me our tactic for me has to be to hit the channels as quickly as we can and win the 2nd ball. In theory McCrorie and Pring will be aerially dominant over most full backs, seems a real waste to not to this and utilise numbers further forward. Means whoever plays in front of Pring/McCrorie (Twine and Sykes when fit?) can attack the 2nd ball and get it to Conway/Wells much quicker and in dangerous areas. 

It is a great escape route and way to get us up the pitch especially away from home, we won't do it as it's too direct for Manning's style but hopefully we can use it as a way to mix up our play and keep opposition teams guessing. For me, it's also quite exciting when we can get the ball forward quickly and efficiently, people bemoan 'route 1 football' but when done properly with a purpose it gets people off seats and can lead to goals without compromising defensively.

Kind of went off on a tangent, I guess the point I was trying to make was I've been impressed with Ross and already adds a different dynamic to our game. Could see him thriving in a back 4!

Finally looks like we might be getting somebody playing closer to Conway!

11 minutes ago, Loco Rojo said:

What's happened to the TGH deal? Is it off? Have i missed something?

Apologies, poor wording!

More a case of, in my head I'm over thinking that every time he gets dropped or played well we won't end up signing him permanently as much as I want us to. All the noises suggest we definitely will but until he's permanent I can't bring myself to get attached 

I don't like the thought of a Loan With an Option as it's always in the back of my mind that it may not happen (see TGH)

That's a 'me' problem though and in fairness these deals really help FFP and cash flow as helps spread payments, Spurs have done this really effectively last few years and gives them so much more wriggle room now. Protects us a little against injury and gives us 6 months to embed. These deals are normally sorted so the Contract is arranged as well so in theory no chance of losing to a bigger club if he does well as we just push the button.

Seems a really good signing, as others have mentioned if we had done this the day after selling Scott I think we'd have been happy (or as happy as we can be having just sold Scott).

4 minutes ago, OliOTIB said:

 

What a signing that is!

I always saw today as a bit of a free hit and wasn't too fussed.

After reading this thread I'm desperate now for us to put in a performance and reward those who have had a heck of a day 

Gutted for those who had to cancel and good luck to those still persevering.

In terms of value for money, Sykes must have been one of our best signings for a long time.

Free transfer from League 1, fantastic piece of business and our most consistent player this year in my opinion. Think he's going to be a real miss next few weeks and hope he comes back soon!

Be interested to see what happens now, Weimann isn't working out there and needs to be in the middle but Manning is persisting with this Inverted winger stuff. Personally would give Bell a go on the right, if Manning wants to play with one winger wide and one tucking in then let Mehmeti come in and influence the game and have Pring bomb on. We've looked so unbalanced with Weimann coming inside and Tanner not utilising the space there.

I get the feeling we won't proceed with this, think he was Manning's first choice for a number of weeks but more due to necessity than anything else. Whilst it wasn't an impressive cameo yesterday for me he's got a bit of everything, can run, pick a pass, shoot but also stick a foot in and tackle.

Can see him evolving his game and being a long term James replacement but I also wonder if he's got a bit more to offer going forwards and if that'll be a bit of a waste....

One thing I'd love to see us try and yesterday was the game to do it is dropping Knight a little deeper to play in the midfield next to TGH. Means you can have Wells/Weimann/Cornick playing centrally next to Conway and actually give the kid some help. It's clearly been identified as an issue because if you watch us, we never have two wingers playing wide, one is always tucked in as close to Conway as possible. The problem is that leaves loads of space out wide that we then aren't able to exploit! Looks very unbalanced to me at the moment, maybe the answer will be Mcrorie bombing down the wing and filling the space but I'm not convinced that'll rectify everything.

Either way, I think TGH is class and think we need to snap him up 

I think it'll be a score draw tonight personally.

Not sure we've got the bodies to keep this run up with so many games in a short space of time, whilst they look devoid of confidence it'll feel like a must win so I'm expecting a scrappy performance from us but hopefully enough for a point

8 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I don't think so.

I suspect you are thinking of @hinsleburg.

For the avoidance of any doubt I can confirm there's no relation haha!

It's just so so frustrating and we're genuinely at a point where Senior People at the club are incompetent or don't care!

Tinnion has wormed his way into a role he's not qualified for and I'm actually really gutted, after his Managerial spell he worked so hard, seemed to find a really good niche for himself and he'd managed to earn the respect of fans and staff alike. Now it's like he's lost a fight with his ego and wants to put the world to rights again and sadly just isn't capable, he's come across as really dislikeable and egotistical in his tweets and interviews and it's a real shame.

If the club wanted to go a different direction to Pearson anybody with an ounce of logic would have said to do it when we A) were safe from relegation and B) couldn't get promoted. We could then embed a new manager and give them time to mould a playing style and sign a few players. 

Right now it feels like we've got the right manager at the wrong time and by the time he gets his philosophies across the atmosphere with fans (and within the club) will be so toxic they won't be effective. This was never the guy to takeover mid season, clearly got a very defined way of playing which takes time and the right personnel, we have neither of those things right now.

Think the results last few weeks have shown just how much Pearson was actually getting out if these players and over performing, we now pass the ball more but aren't as exciting (imo) or effective and conceding goals for fun. I enjoyed watching us this season, we worked hard and we were direct (not hoofball) and competed for every ball until the whistle, that's all gone now. 

As alluded to, Manning doesn't get a free pass but I don't think this is his fault nor can he be criticised for taking the role as it could be seen as a great opportunity. The blame has to go right to the top!

We've got no leadership structure, no embedded philosophy and ultimately no idea. Unless there's changes behind the scenes, we are my very early bet for relegation next year, god I hope Manning is a miracle worker

Didn't want to start a separate thread on this as may have been discussed elsewhere, but why on earth didn't Vyner bring down Idah when he had the chance and take the red card?

If that was at the other end you know for a fact Duffy would have had no issue taking the red and saving a point. Awful, awful goal to concede and completely preventable (even before we consider just taking him down)

7 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

Was happy to dish it out and act Billy big time on there when things were going well, but couldn’t handle a bit of pressure and scrutiny. 
 

Has BT turned into MA?

This is the key thing for me!

Like others have done, I've had a search and there's very little he's actually been sent and I wouldn't say any of it constituted abuse. (Unsure if he has his Private Messages Open)

His Burns tweet yesterday was odd and very antagonistic given the current circumstances and Complaints about lack of spending and money not being reinvested. The whole communication coming from the club recently has been so out of touch and lacking in genuine empathy and understanding as to what it's like to be a supporter.

Yesterday felt like 'I'm right, you're all wrong, it's my ball and I'm going home', they've all created a rod for their own backs and genuinely concerned we've now been set up to fail. (Not intentionally I must add!)

42 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Why wasn’t he league two level before he joined man united then?  He’s in a run of bad form for sure but that doesn’t make his level league two! 

He has always had a howler in him (see Ajax V Tottenham...) and has played for teams who don't face many shots so would never have really got exposed. Can remember a similar thing happening with Valdes at Barcelona, take him out that team and he was a bang average goalkeeper with world class distribution, may get to a point where this happens here.

Just seems to be a bit over dramatic with everything that he does and over exaggerate his movements. The second goal yesterday was like he was trying to punch the ball clear as far as possible instead of a two handed parry to the side (or even try and catch the thing!)

Will make the occasional worldie but in terms of basic goalkeeping very poor! Compare him to Vicario at Spurs (who cost about 1/3rd of the price I believe) and only one of them looks close to being a world class keeper. (Which at the prices paid they both should be!)

17 hours ago, Maltshoveller said:

Dennis Erwin for one

But give me a LEFT footed LEFT back every day of the week

I would agree, but to me it's not a position of strength.

Chilwell and Shaw, both ok, neither world class and both have injury and reliability issues.

Really impressed with Tyrick Mitchell at Palace, if he can stay fit and have a good season he would be my first choice and I'd happily go with Lewis as back up/versatility option especially as Trippier can also play there!

He'd be my 1st/2nd choice CB personally in a 2 or a 3

I'm still not sold on Vyner, I think he made massive improvements last year however I don't think he's as good as Naismith, Dickie or indeed Atkinson. (pre-injury as wary don't know how he's going to come back). 

If we are going with a back 4 I'd have Dickie and Naismith as first choice as think they'd compliment each other really well. I also don't think Naismith is as defensively bad as gets made out on here sometimes, think that Sunderland game has left a real lasting memory!

Dickie last 6 weeks (after being out the team a bit...) seems to have found some confidence, form and is continuing to look a really shrewd bit of business. Good Championship player at a very good price with room to develop still.