Fiale

we have a 106 page thread already on all this stuff 

32 minutes ago, Malago said:

£35m to build UWE,

£8m to pay off Higgs

£3m to pay off Wonga

£20-30m to buy a team to get to championship.

That's an investment of £66-76m before you even start thinking about ongoing losses of paying players £5k a week with crowds averaging 10 k at absolute max.

Selling the Mem should cover the new ground - paying Wonga is the main thing for the club, else they would have lost everything. So possible a good investment for them, new stadium for £3 million - will be interesting to see how things go, a few years of yet before we will see anything worthwhile I imagine.

They know they are going to lose the Sainsbury case. So this is the boards last chance to make their money back/not lose everything. The new owners can pay of the loans against the stadium, meaning the club will not go bankrupt within a few weeks (losing their one asset wonga/sainsbury). So the club will costs the new investors maybe just over a million to cover the loans ? They then have land worth more than that, fund the UWE, sale Memorial ground and they have already broke even/made a profit. They also own half a stadium with a University which is something that a lot of businessmen would be proud of. 

The question is, will Rovers then just be renting UWE stadium, because if so, they have no assets, no worth and are just tenants, whilst Higgs and co get away with a close shave, and some Jordanians make a little money and have a half share in a nice university asset.

Derby and Cardiff not signing upto project "BristolCity in Championship" - surprised they have not scored

1 minute ago, zider'ed said:

I doubt many Charlton fans have got Ghoochannejhad printed on the back of their shirts! 

yeah pay per letter thats gonna cost you. As well as the extra material side flaps to fit in on..

seems to speed us up a little, more direct attack

plus hes added a bit more of a direct attacking threat

You are incorrect.

 

This is the thread I highlighted:

 

http://www.forest.vitalfootball.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=24192&start=1

 

KId and Alex decided to reply by reference to a completely different thread.

 

Now that's what I call spin.

Ok I had a look at that thread 

4 people said he was a good manager - that's it. The vast majority simply said he did what he had to, but glad he's gone / poor football / bad decisions. There are 9 people who just outright disliked him.

So of the 22 posts that actually commented on him - 4 liked him and thought he was a good manager - so 18% ? 

18% thought he was a good manager

82% thought he was a poor manager ( and they are roughly evenly split between - poor but got the job done and bad good riddance)

That's the man we have in charge

OK back from the pub suitably refreshed and I see that like Will, Alex has also been bunking off his maths lessons. Tut tut.

 

There are 38 posts on the thread in question.

 

I'd say they can be classified and counted as follows:

 

In praise of Cotterill for a reasonable job                             13

Don't rate as manager but no hard feeling                            6

Critical of Cotterill and OTIBesque insults                            11

No comments on Cotterill                                                       8

 

So in other words, 19 out of 30 (that's 63%) who expressed a view on Cotterill, do not despise him.

 

Or, at most, 37% (very different to 95% Will and very different to 15 out of 16 Alex) despise Cotterill, although none actually said anything like that.

 

So, Burnley like him, Forest don't mind him, lets see what Cheltenham and Notts County have to say tomorrow.

 

Tomorrow's sermon:

"How to draw Conclusions based on Fact"

The thread people are reffering to is the 13 page one with 100's of replies when we asked about his appointment, not the one you seem to have selected that seems to have only a handful. On the first page alone their are 22 scathing comments on SC and 1 person who is neutral - and the thread carries on pretty much in that vein for another 13 pages.

Maybe you should work in Government - with your selective stat collection to spin a general opinion into the complete opposite. 

wow just seen the post count - sad state of affairs. I know fans don't get a say in appointments, but when a vast majority prior to the appointment are saying no to a certain person - you have to be very brave to then appoint them - let's hope SL is right, because patience seems to be thinner atm than any other point over the last few years.

For me the worrying thing about his career are he went to Stoke but resigned after 13 games, he went to Sunderland as asst mngr but him and the manager were sacked after 27 games, he had no managerial position for 2.5 years, he went to Notts County leaving after 3 months, and lasted only 9 months at Nottingham forest (getting a nice club record along the way of 10.5 hours of play without scoring at home (7 games or 2.5 months with no goals).

Even in a job with such a short life span as football management that is a worrying CV. I would never hire someone with that resume.

Once again misleading and/or inaccurate "facts"

- When SC took over we were one from bottom and 4 points from bottom - we are now three from bottom and 7 points from bottom.

- Of the 14 teams played, we are still to play 4, results against 9 have been the same, one better and NONE worse

- Under SOD our solid defence conceded 32 goals in 19 games, an average of 1.68 per game, whereas its 23 goals in 14 under SC, an average of 1.64 per game

 

In all seriousness, if you want to quote "facts", it would be helpful if you did as I have, do the maths first.

SOD was only in charge for 18 games - so maybe you should not be so smug with your "In all seriousness, if you want to quote "facts" comment.

It's also irrelevant how far away we are from the team at the bottom - it's how far we are away from getting out of the automatic relegation spots - and it's the same now as when SOD left (only now a worse goal difference , and some teams around us have games in hand.

I don't see anything dishonest in what SC has said.

 

I seem to be in the minority (on this thread certainly!) but's that's fine by me - those most disparaging of Cotterill seem to be those most embittered by SO'D's departure. 

 

I'm not. I'm very glad he's gone and though I'm far from convinced by Cotterill, it's obviously in our best interests now to support him and at least reserve judgement until we see whether he can keep us up.

 

If you think what I say is shocking I can only say I find the criticism of Cotterill, and everything he says and does, is absolutely mind blowing to me.

 

By what I normally consider to be level headed posters, as well.

I don't think anyone has said SC (or SOD) were dishonest.    I expect most people understand why (or agree) that SOD had to go, results at the end of the day are king, but for me (and many others) it did feel like we could have have stuck with him (we will never know if it would have paid off or not). 

Of all our recent managers I would have been happy to give any of them more time. SC is the first I am just full stop unhappy with being appointed, that does not mean I want him to fail, or us to lose, you do not have to like the manager to support the club - hell I sincerely wish/hope he does prove me wrong, but in my heart I do not feel he can progress the club (even if we avoid relegation) in the way SOD/DEL could have if given long enough.

The fans have been starved of any success for years now, relegation battles for 4 season in a row (when we all felt we could finally be a decent Championship club) has embittered a lot of people. SOD was torn apart, and every word he said scrutinized to suit peoples view of him, and SC is suffering the same fate - if it was Roman times then SL would throw some slaves to the lions to sate our appetites. Instead we have the only visible face of the club, the manager, to scrutinize, blame,  and I fear SC will come under the same pressure (as he probably should) to get results and move the club forward.

I suspect on this occasion he was so furious and disappointed that his mind was firmly on getting into the dressing room quickly and laying into the players.

 

He did though make a made a point of saying, 'we had a great following here today, a great following, and we let them down big time.'

SOD also said the same about the away support being "magnificant" "a shame the fans did not get the result they deserved" etc - 

It just reads that almost identical situations because one manager is a happier upbeat chap you choose to think all the possible best for him, and yet almost identical situations all the possible worst of another manager. It is so biased, and unfounded that it's shocking to actually read - all the moreso as you are usually a level headed decent poster.

And you know this how exactly??!! Pure speculation once again like your absurd comment that SOD was responsible for 2,500 season ticket holders not turning up! Face it, a manager attending a Q & A at a supporters pub and appearing on a fans' podcast is unprecedented and clearly an attempt to have dialogue with all aspects of the fanbase in a proactive manner.

 

 

Er...I seem to remember SOD being scathing of our performances on a couple of occasions, Wycombe springs to mind. So what? SC's charm offensive doesn't seem to be working, does it?

SC is a happy chappy and gets a bye, SOD was miserable so everything he did was an attack on the club / fans - Fans always say they want the club to be honest with them, along comes SOD, fans suddenly realise they don't like honesty after all - bring back the cliched, one of the lads, happy chappy manager, because for fans at the end of the day ignorance is bliss............   

I'll try and keep it short then Kid.

 

SO'D had no interest, imo, in forming a rapport with the fans - 3 examples given in my post above, although you have interpreted one differently.

 

He did though have a strong self interest in taking opportunities - as outlined by you above - to attempt to justify his failing methods with rhetoric, which increasigly fell on deaf ears with many.

strange you feel SCs words are being unfairly interpreted yet are using other supporters who unfairly interpreted SODs comments as proof he was no good with fans.

If SOD had no interest / did not care about fans he would not have done the Q&As and podcast that fans invited him to - he was not expected to do them, did not have to do them, no other manager I know of has done them like this - so he obviously wanted fans to know what was happening, what he was trying to do - which is the important thing.... so he wasn't a happy chappy you'd want a pint with moving pepper pots around showing you his formations.... so what, that doesn't make you a better manager.

Did Sc acknowledge fans on Saturday ?

Just remind me what position we were when SOD left? I will remind you he won 2 league games out of 18.

When SOD left  

We needed 2 points to get out of the relegation zone with -3 GD   no teams had any games in hand

Now

We need 2 points to get out of the relegation zone with a -8  and teams around us have games in hand

that good enough reminder > we are in a worse position

Over his entire career he has won 248 games and lost 193.

 

So he's right. Get over it FFS.

118 of them came at Cheltenham - considering the club at the time  - it's like padding your stats or K/D ratio by killing noobs in lowbie zones in a game.

Always a toughie, to come in when a season is well under way and try to change things. Steve's 2014 hasn't exactly inspired though. 

 

All isn't lost, but he needs to get all his powers of motivation at work. And rethink the midfield.

agreed - I hope he does sort things out - I just want us to be successful and to be honest I don't need to like the manager for that to happen.

I do feel the club needs to stick to it's plans though for future progression, and that includes telling the manager that he gets no overriding say in things outside of first team matters.

Yes.

"We were abysmal today, and that's tough for me to take because I'm a winner."

:laugh: - I am happy for him to prove it - but his career hasn't really been a testament to that. It's like his "never been sacked" no, but there again let go, mutual consent, released is the same thing buddy - in fact I have seen some good people sacked at places because they have maybe made a balls up, but the poor people tend to leave by mutual consent.....

Which returns me to "what is the point of Keith Burt"?

 

However, I can't write a spineless display like that off due to the two players we brought to the club in January. More established players must've let themselves down. 

.

I await the verdict of the brave/foolhardy who went to Bramall Lane

I guess the point is that we had a new plan , philosophy that has now been torn up because SC wants a traditional mangers role and not what we were said to have put in place for the future - when you bend over backwards to get a specific person, you get taken hostage by their demands

Isn't Keith Burt supposed to be in charge of that? And if he has no say in these transfers why is he here? What a waste of money.

 

As I say, we had overage players brought in under SOD. Can't say I was thrilled when I saw Shorey playing back then.

 

Is El-Abd the problem here today though? I'd like a considered opinion from someone there as to why we are plywood flimsy befoire their attacks and why we haven't got a decent shot in.

We all know SC has been given carte blanche at the club - he was brought in as a manager and when asked why not Head Coach the club said "it's just a name and nothing has changed" wheras SC said "it's becuase I like to get involved in all areas of the club" - cannot beleive ~Burt would have made these signings, it looks like "i want these people" and we went and got them

Warnock applied, Dave Jones so say applied, but they give the job to this fool. The rest of the country warned us, once again, the Lansdowns take the cheap option.

but none of them are mates with the club, giving them advise for the last X years

Wasn't it our poor showing against lowly Utd that sealed SODs fate ?

nearly all season we have been 2 points under relegation zone, only our goal difference is slightly worse now.... that sort of consistency cannot lie