the1stknowle

Agree. He was brilliant for three minutes. Also didn’t realise how good Bowen is. it’s a really good wham team and we we matched them for all but first five minutes (when pacqueta was on pitch). Coufal basically plays as a right forward but thought Pring and Dickie did really well against him and Bowen.

Pring and Dickie for me. And O’Leary obviously. But williams very good.

The epitaph for the whole of OTIB.

It’s all ridiculously childish.

Seems like a bit of a stick to beat him with even when winning.

Yeah all very fair. I don’t want to pretend I don’t have concerns or everything is rosey. And even if it all goes incredibly and we win the playoffs, I will still have problems with some of the comms around axing Nige and that whole briefing around the medical issues with the players. That was grim stuff. But I’ve also slowly come round to sacking Nige not being the worst footballing decision in world if they had a plan. And it seems they had a plan. I Ive always felt on the question of this thread that Steve Lansdown gets less credit than he’s due for the good stuff and way too much vitriol for the stuff that hasn’t worked. And I’ve really taken against the assumption that sacking Nige and brining in Manning already belongs in the catalogue of bad Lansdown decisions just because a lot of people didn’t like it. (Def not saying you’ve ever said that on here btw).

Good post. All entirely reasonable. I guess my point is, if this works (and, early days but pretty good start) then are those suggesting, as you put it, the new structure lacks sufficient expertise wrong? Obviously no one ever wants to eat humble pie but a lot of the catastrophising that goes on on here is premised on the Pearson sacking and LM appointment being the straw that broke camels back of bad decisions. So, if it turns out that was an inspired decision, then that really makes a lot of these arguments on this thread pretty weak. And one thing in your post i do disagree with - that no one is saying things are that bad. I agree that is the case with City fans in real world. It’s not what I take from loads of the comments on OTIB that seem to think we are a basket case club and Lansdowns need to sell up and get out , Tins out of depth etc. There are clearly people on here - lots - that think things really are that bad.

Does this whole chat assume they got the decision that basically started this chat wrong - the appointment of Liam Manning? If that turns out to an inspired choice from a football point of view, does that change this thread? Because, seems to me, if that goes well then it is a ruthless (ie not cosy jobs for the boys, lacking ambition etc) decision made in consultation with a football person (Tins) which seems to be what a lot of people on this thread want from the Lansdowns. For my part, I just don’t see that things are as bad as people make out regularly on here. SL shouldn’t have given the club to a son that had not earned that job. And, to the same point, I get peoples issues with the ‘it’s my club’ line. But the infrastructure, the Academy are obviously miles better than when he took over and the club has consistently excellent attendances. We are definitely better set up for success. So struggle to quite see reasons for vitriol. We are in a pretty good place.

So for prudent reasons to run an ultimately self-sustaining business?

So your question right back to you then. If it’s to build this ‘nest egg’ - to what end? Just self enrichment? Surely even Lansdown’s biggest critique would struggle to say the investment in City is about making out like a bandit.

Oh. Ok then.

Yep. Number of interviews/fan Q&A sessions in 12 months pre Nige's sacking vs number in the 2 months since???

I don’t think Jon has been a good chairman up until this point and one of my main complaints, other than how he got the job, is the abysmal lack of communication over last few years. But like what he says or not, you can’t deny that he is finally making an effort to communicate with the fans more regularly. Vital, especially when we don’t have a CEO who can do that club-level communication. Appreciate it is not a popular opinion, but I’m encouraged by the recent efforts. Far from perfect. Far from not awkward. But he’s at least putting himself out there more which is a major change.

Maybe, but I think your analogy is wrong anyway as it assumes the actors are doing the same thing, just worse. What Im saying is half way through a show is obviously never the ideal time to start a new show and that could be a bit jarring for the audience. But maybe the new show, once all the actors get into character, will be a lot better. Thing is, we will never know how good the play gets if everyone starts screaming at the actors or walks out before they have had a chance to get to the good bits. And, anyway, tortured analogy aside, we all know football supporting isn't solely about the entertainment (see Nigel Pearson reign) or even the results (see Nigel Pearson reign). What makes it enjoyable is a lot more complicated than that (see Nigel Pearson reign). I'll leave it there as literally no one on either side of discussion here is likely to change mind.

None of my points rely on the idea that we are a charity. Quite the opposite. And re ManU, maybe. But if they then finished in the top 4, they wouldn't be annoyed and what happened in the first 6 games would be irrelevant. It's just circles so no point going round rehashing same points. More people on here seem to agree with you than me and all equally entitled to opinion. I just think not only is it too early to judge, but the ill will towards Manning (which is there no matter what people claim) will only make things more challenging. Also, I'm amazed that others aren't seeing some positive changes in what we are doing on pitch. I think results will follow. But who knows - Im willing to see. Appreciate you have already seen enough.

'instantly improve results' is your narrative. If you take the chairman's explanation at face value, Manning was brought in because we wanted a new shiny way of playing football that was more likely to get us into the premier league. Fine. Agree with that or not, you have to accept that that will take a bit of time. Fans might want to hold the chairman to this 'guaranteed play off' nonsense but it would be nice if they let Manning get on with job with a bit of courtesy benefit of doubt. If not, we risk a self-fulfilling prophecy (which I suspect is, regardless of what people say, subconsciously sort of what a lot of people want. People instinctively like to be right even when they say 'I'd love to be proved wrong'). But even if top 6 was what Manning agreed and believes is achievable this season, its unrealistic to expect him to come in, change NOTHING and, to quote you 'instantly improve results'. To do that, something has to change and that is where he has to be allowed a bit of time. What you're doing, I feel, is the equivalent of your neighbour telling you he wants a better house that will sell for more money. He starts painting, slaps on the undercoat, knocks down the back wall to start an extension. And you walk past three weeks later and shout 'mate, that looks shite. There's a massive hole in your house and its all different colours. I thought you wanted to make it better?'

Yes to after 10 games. That is too soon. After 20 I think we should be seeing signs of progress. And after 30, 40 - you're just making straw man arguments there. That would be two transfer windows and most of a season so of course that becomes a reasonable time to judge 'progress'. Just because I'm saying it's too soon to judge, that doesn't mean 'he can never be judged'. Come on.

'Ever since'... It's been SIX games. And, I can see you are a hardcore Nige ride or die but.. its not like 'boring shite dull football' was a totally foreign concept under his time here, or indeed the season so far.

Fine. But over what period of time? Just instantaneously - from his first game in charge, Bristol City can never drop below 15th under LM or he is an instant failure? Or if in 10 games time we are higher than 15th, that is progress and you'll pop a humble pie in the oven? I see so many posts on here currently saying 'no one is having a pop at Manning..' whilst having a very obvious pop at Manning in the very same post. Would be better if people were honest that that is exactly what they are doing.

Again. I'm a Nige fan. But I do not see how you can make that statement with such authority.

Amen. Some sense. Completely agree - it's still very new but I just think those refusing to see any positives in what we are doing on the pitch currently are being wilfully blind. We were a work in progress when he took over. And we remain a work in progress. But progress there clearly has been.

Again, not denying any of those things (except the difficult to break down point which is maybe a reach although the start of this season we seemed a lot less fragile). But the initial post was very specifically talking about a culture of winning. And, as much as I liked Nige, didn't want him gone, and appreciate this is exactly what he was working towards, there is just no sensible way to argue that he had already instilled a 'culture of winning' when, under him, our win percentage was very noticeably below the win percentages of his three immediate predecessors in the decade since 2013.

Sorry. I’m a Nige fan. But the idea he installed a culture of winning is demonstrably not true. Culture of hard work. Culture of togetherness. Culture of good people. 100%. But we only won less than one out of every three games when Nige was manager.

I would have liked him to admit, ‘under Nige, we would have won that 4-0.’ Then we could have all gone home happy.

Get Paul Dickov back