havanatopia

I just want to say, Korey Smith, you are magnificent so far. 

17 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

If we can get another 2 by HT we might just hold on.

Very droll but somewhat true.

Ingrained in my memory of Leeds United, more than any other, are the long powerful drives from Peter Lorimer. Perhaps because my brother, at the time a misguided fan of Leeds, would incessantly blast a goal past me in the garden and prance around in celebration screaming 'and Lorimer with a screamer blasts another past the inept Jennings' because I had that iconic green jersey and long hair at aged eight. Or he might also scream 'Lorimer drives it past Maier in yet another LEGAL goal*. So the name Lorimer stuck. To be fair he did have a cracking shot on him. Over 526 appearances for the club he scored over 160 goals. Remarkably little footage of them on the internet which is a great shame but here is one..

If there is one thing worse than a smug Leeds fan its a self righteous pompous German. And that clip encompasses it rather nicely. You have to sympathise with Leeds, dirty or not, although what they did to the Parc de Princes in Paris at the end was not condonable regardless. As Allan Clarke remembers; It was 15 years after the 1975 European Cup final when the injustice of it all truly dawned on him. He flicked on the television and caught an interview with Franz Beckenbauer, reliving the night in Paris when Bayern Munich mugged Leeds United and Leeds smashed the Parc de Princes up.

The discussion with Beckenbauer turned eventually to his tackle on Clarke 34 minutes into the game; a penalty which should have been given but wasn’t. “He admitted straight up that it was a blatant foul,” Clarke says. “It was the first time I’d heard him talk about it and the jist of what he said was: ‘I brought him down, I took him out.’ I sat there thinking ‘what an absolute disgrace.’” Football’s a small world but Clarke has never seen or spoken to any of the Bayern players who featured that night, or to the referee, Michel Kitabdjian. “To be perfectly honest, I hope I never do,” he says.

Read more at: https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-united/leeds-united-whites-still-smarting-from-euro-final-injustices-1-7281571

And that was before Lorimer's perfectly good strike. Ask any Leeds fan about that match, old enough to remember or know their history, and they will shake their head in disbelief of how they were robbed. It is in their DNA now; if it hurts a player that much there is no surprise it rankles the fans beyond normal. I don't like how fans seem to think they have a god given right to be in the top flight, certainly, but what i do get is that such injustices of that magnitude can affect people in subtle ways. I think Leeds fans somehow have that. 

The recently departed Jimmy Armfield, manager of Leeds at the time, said in an interview to the Yorkshire Evening Post in 2008 “I always felt we were robbed,” . Says it all really. 

Clarke continues; “To lift the European Cup back then you had to win your league first. There was none of this finish-fourth-and-qualify nonsense." How emphatically I agree with Clarke. 

“There was no room for error in the early stages either. From round one if you lost over two legs you were out. Good Night Vienna. “But that final against Bayern Munich must go down as the most one-sided in the history of the European Cup. How a team who played like we did could end up as the losing side I’ll never know. Well, I do know. We were cheated out of it.”

Beckenbauer would later admit that Bayern were “very, very lucky.” The Germans finally made the most of Kitabdjian’s help in the 71st minute when Franz Roth finished off a move involving Muller and Conny Torstensson. Muller killed the game by converting Jupp Kapellmann’s cross on 81 minutes, 60 seconds after Armfield sent on Eddie Gray in the hope of salvation.

Riots inside the stadium were in full swing by then with seats and other missiles thrown towards Maier’s net and short-lived pitch invasions. United were subsequently banned from European football for four years by UEFA, reduced to two years on appeal. Kitabdjian needed a police escort from the pitch at full-time, though Armfield’s players made no attempt to confront him. “I was over near our supporters when he went off,” Clarke says. “There was nothing we could do about it after the final whistle, just as there’s nothing we can do about it now. “But in my mind we were champions of Europe that night. I love that our fans sing about us being champions of Europe because it reminds everyone of what really went on and how shocking that final was. “It was brushed over afterwards, no apologies or anything. It could only happen to Leeds United. “If that had been Manchester United or Liverpool it would all have been different. “But Leeds – well, if it can happen it does happen.”  It hurts Clarke, you can see that!

That night in Paris, more than any I know, and there are other rather interesting injustices on Leeds we will not expand on here, keeps coming back to remind an older Leeds fan when they fail to score a goal at home to Millwall in the second tier or they spend a few wilderness years in the third tier. Fans hurt. We can relate to that although we have never experienced such highs and such, comparable, lows.

Leeds, I think, became dirtier after that match. Maybe those unsportsmanlike words from Beckenbauer baptised Norman Hunter to be the 'bite yer legs' champion. It certainly served City well in our old First Division days and maybe we need somebody reminiscent of that now but in midfield; you know that creative guy we have all been crying out for who also takes no prisoners. Or maybe Hunter is a breed no more. I like watching though..

One win in 11 against Leeds for City. We have to turn that around this afternoon. I hope all those fantastic City fans making the long and expensive trip north are rewarded. Let us get our promotion plans back on track before we get swallowed up by the chasing pack.

7 minutes ago, RedLionLad said:

That's a cracking full stop.

I know right. Beautifully crafted. 

The guy is a Jordanian international. I know they are low in world rankings but advancing one's development at Bishops Cleeve? Is this a cunning plan by Wael for the Jordanian people to disown Al Qady until they bring their golden boy home and 'force' them to sell the Gas and admit to the folly of the entire episode? I wonder.

Do Rovers do this on purpose? its uncanny the number of times they throw away points. Astonishing. 

5 minutes ago, 29AR said:

There is (more than) one obvious exception, and we are going there next week...

The caveat being you should be on an upward trajectory; assume you are referring to Cardiff crowds last season. That being said they are light years ahead of the crowds they were getting in the decade run up to building the new shed.

4 hours ago, JBFC II said:

I honestly think they'd get 15-16k if they were in our position, they last averaged 20k 60 years ago and they haven't averaged over 10k for over 40 years, including when they were in the 2nd division back in the 90s

3 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

Well so much for “faithful and true” then eh!? You saggies can't have it both ways.. you can't claim to be such wonderful fans then say that thousands are staying away because of the state of the ground and the fact you are crap. That would make you just as fickle and fairweather as anybody else wouldnt it?

So which is it? Either you have a fan base that is loyal but much smaller than ours, or you have a potentially bigger fanbase that can't be arsed to go and watch second rate football.

Loyal or not. Tis human nature to want to be in a nice welcoming, warm environment with superb facilities, good food, shorter queues etc etc.. You get my point. If you build it they will come, proven time and time again.

2 hours ago, Cider red said:

Okay I'll say it....anyone else have a niggly thought in the back of their mind that it would be good for bristol football if they snuck up through the playoffs?

I always like a good derby. Did somebody say 3 years after a promotion into the Championship your ground has to be all seater? Is that a rolling rule because I thought that was something that ran out a few years back. Be a real shame to see the celebrations of all the Rovers fans being dashed by the awful news they cannot go up. Actually based on that outcome I meant to say 'it would be wonderful to witness those celebrations'. But knowing Wael he would have a cunning plan to ground share with Forest Green.

6 hours ago, Tomarse said:

They'd also have 3 seasons to go all seater.. 

They will probably end up ground sharing with FGR at their new stadium.. stranger things have happened.

10 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Surely Jim Montgomery would have been the 3rd instant all time legend for Sunderland fans for that fantastic double save.

That whole team all time legends up there I'm sure.

I do not like to use that word lightly however good those saves indeed were; Fielding is not a legend but what a ave he made for us today.

9 hours ago, bobbyhutchscurlymullet said:

Brownhill right back by looks of warm up

And wasn't he poor today. Kept giving the ball away.

8 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Thank goodness we’ve got past that dangerous 2-0 scoreline!

Little did we know but I always felt that in the first half we were still quite sloppy, giving the ball away needlessly and just an air of indiscipline. Hard to say i know given we were 3 goals to the good.

7 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

Do we need a better captain on the pitch who gees the players up at 3-2 ?

I have never been a big Wright fan although he was ok today. 

I really don't get this Diony fella though. A few neat tackles and movements but no improvement on what we have. Fair to say I think that LJ is not much good and buying strikers... We now have a bag full of them doing not much more than bench warming. No surprise I suppose that he seems to like buying midfielders having been one himself. 

The worry for me is that few of the recent signings are getting any game time. Why bring players in seemingly at some cost and not have them making a contribution? Are they being written off already?

I would be surprised if we are still in the play offs next weekend. 

Saying that we will defy the odds and probably go and win at Elland Road for the first time in eons. We really need that result now.

Bob Stokoe was probably the finest manager Sunderland ever had. That famous 1-0 victory over Revie's Leeds United, wannabe kings of Europe at the time, will forever be ingrained in the mindset of a Black Cats supporter. And on that day both he and Ian Porterfield, who scored the only goal, became instant legends for Sunderland as they lifted the FA Cup; the then second division club beat the 'mighty' Leeds. Remember those red trousers as the tall wily man ran on to the Wembley pitch to celebrate the win with his players? Or perhaps his trademark Trilby and Mackintosh?

When Bob Stokoe was cutting his teeth in football management at Bury he fell out with Don Revie, who was beginning to shape an outstanding career at Leeds United. Facing up to the bleak prospect of relegation, Revie offered Stokoe a sum of money to take things easy in a match at Gigg Lane. Revie was told what he could do with the bribe, and the two men never spoke again. "I'd heard of such things happening but I couldn't believe it was being put to me," Stokoe said one night in the long ago. 

The incident was embedded so deep in Stokoe's mind that a number of years later, as manager of Blackpool, he was reluctant to agree a deal with Leeds for a talented Scottish international inside-forward Tony Green, who eventually joined Newcastle United. "I tried to get Liverpool interested," he told me. "When Bill Shankly asked me why I was set against the offer from Leeds I told him about the thing with Revie at Bury. Bill went silent. I don't think he ever again saw Revie in the same light."

I could only take Stokoe's word for this but matters moved on when allegations of bribery, mainly involving a match against Wolverhampton Wanderers, were levelled at Leeds in 1973, leading to a probe by the Daily Mirror whose hard-bitten investigative team sought my assistance on the basis of what they assumed to be a friendship with Revie. Says Ken Jones of the Independent.

To my mind Bob Stokoe epitomised all that was decent in the game of football. Widely regarded as utterly straightforward and honest. He was also a sentimental and compassionate man. At Charlton he missed a game due to the death of his dog. Along with poor results, it led to his dismissal immediately after a defeat at Crystal Palace. "The business with the dog was bound to work against you," I remember saying. "It's the way I am," he replied.

Stokoe Joined Sunderland on the 29th of November 1972 when they were 4th bottom of the old Second Division after just 4 wins in 18 matches; 45 years later, almost to the day, saw Chris Coleman join Sunderland also as manager. He has presided over just 4 wins in 14 matches. Prior to Colemans arrival they had won just once in the league. And while Coleman finds himself currently unable to address the slide started by several managers before him Bob Stokoe went on a remarkable run of only 5 defeats in 32 games culminating in that famous FA Cup win after beating Arsenal and Manchester City along the way. The fact it was against Revie must have been remarkably sweet for the man.

Sunderland finished 6th that season and narrowly missed out on promotion for two more until they were finally promoted, 4th time lucky for Stokoe, as 1976 Champions alongside City and West Brom of course. In some ways, knowing what I now do about the man, I am glad he was not at the helm the following season as Sunderland went straight back down in part because Coventry and City played the ball around the park. Of course, one cannot say it was the reason because a season is long and arduous and the writing was long on the wall for the Black Cats having lost their first 9 games back in the top flight and prompting the very honourable Bob Stokoe to tender his resignation. In fact during his long managerial career, which ended with a short spell back at Sunderland to try and halt their slide into the third tier, he was never sacked by a club. He always resigned. Those days are seemingly all but gone.

In recent times Sunderland appear to have been rather mis-managed with poor transfer decisions, large amounts of money being spent and then finding themselves with lemons with little or no sell on value. These failures ultimately come down to an owner who perhaps allowed too much leeway with past directors of football and manager's in equal measure. Whether Sunderland will once again fall into the third tier remains open to question as the season reaches its final third but thus far there appears little evidence that Chris Coleman can achieve what Bob Stokoe did 45 years ago. I bet they wish he was still around.

City have a rather decent record against the Black Cats enjoying marginally the greater number of victories. This would be our second double of the season. We must stay within striking distance of 2nd spot. Enjoy the game today.

Thanks to Ken Jones of the Independent for much of the Don Revie wording.

Candy Crush. Well, I would like us to crush Derby this evening that is for sure. Our second 6 pointer haul this season that would be if I am not mistaken. 

King Digital, the firm behind what I can view from afar as an irritatingly addictive computer game, is run my Mel Morris the owner of our opposition. 

I recall my frequent squashed journeys in a London Tube carriage with so many people transfixed by little fruit icons jumping around on a small phone with silly little squash and pop noises emamating from each device in a cacophany of time wasting nonsense. Seemingly Mr Morris bought Derby off the back of that; the world makes less and less sense.

A bit like the morons who broke into my colleagues rental in the centre of Porto last night and made off with two passports and two lap tops rendering this match day a challenging smart phone experience.

I shall end with this marvellous rendition of 'King, where are your people now' by UB40. And perhaps someone will begin the chant at Pride Park when City have started to put a smile back on my face with a goal or three.. by George we need it. Now.. Where is that British Consul number...

Enjoy the game everyone.

BTFTG; ref the metaphorical slaughtering of Kent; I would like to place it in the context of the players we already have and how they play. I already mentioned how they all cover for each other when out of position, bound to happen, or make a mistake, now and again a certainty. Every time I see City play I am reminded how hard Smith, Reid and Pato run on and off the ball almost for 90 minutes. I bet if you look at the stats they are consistently at the top of the tree. The other players, not wishing to single just those out, are not far behind. Kent can only get better but, in my humbles, he had a mare of a debut and deserves a lot of criticism. That is what football and opinions are about but, most importantly, while you can excuse a poor performance it is hard to do so with attitude and it looked wrong with him yesterday.

Just want to add that I thought Flint, particularly, was immense again yesterday. If we keep him into next season it will be a miraculous feat.

20 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

 

 

Hav

Enjoy the game, as LJ always says, there is nothing wrong with being short and sweet.

For some reason I thought you meant the sea water at Clevedon, then I saw this: https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/update/2018-01-11/people-in-clevedon-area-told-to-boil-water-before-use/

Maybe best to stick to the Royal Oak next time you need a drink! 

Certainly with you on the ear-rings

 

Royal Oak is a fine Inn. I did not enjoy the game obviously!! Thought we looked 5 yards off the pace to every ball. Thought our two weakest players were Wright and Brownhill; sorry but I have seen what is it 5 games during this trip back and Wright for me is decent but often gives the ball away, runs into brick walls and then we are in trouble; usually a fellow player will bail him out and that is what has actually impressed me most about the whole team; everyone covers for everyone else. Brownhill had an off day. Poor. 

18 hours ago, Fodbarmyarmy said:

Norwich fresh off of holding Chelsea....Mmm. .....Gonna be a tough one...

And so it proved.

17 hours ago, RedSA said:

Kent looks very rusty. Out of position for the goal, although I’m not sure what Bryan was doing so central. 

I thought we were significantly worse after he came on and an initial worry which I subliminally referred to in my opening post; i thought his attitude was all wrong; he looked like he was behaving like billy big bollox. Harsh words i am sure but I can only tell it as I, personally, see it. He did very little tracking back; their goal came from his walking pace track back on that wing. Lee needs to get him by the scruff of the neck or he will be a wasted loan. Probably the worst debut I have seen in a number of seasons. He can only get better.

16 hours ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

Are we heading for another 8 game defeat again?

 

3 in the league only so far but it today turned a corner into concern. 

16 hours ago, Johnr1986 said:

Think automatic looks unrealistic now, 3 loses in row bad form, can’t see us getting anything for Derby, would take 6th in heart beat right now! 

Think this is a premature conclusion. Cardiff lost 4 on the bounce and are now back up and running and there will be a number of twists and turns in the run in. That said, if we lose to Derby you may be right. And I am sure this is not lost on them. Eliminate us from a chance of 2nd spot and its down to a two horse race. We absolutely cannot lose that game but if we do and Villa win they will feel they have a shot of joining Derby and Cardiff for automatic. 

10 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

Less fortunate than Havana in that I have not recovered from illness in time to attend. Intensely frustrating, but will have to rely on you guys and the customary lifeless commentary from RB. Have a feeling it could be a scrappy affair today, but that we might scrape a tense 1-0 win from a poor match. Hope I’m wrong about the quality and right about the result. Enjoy, all you lucky enough to be in attendance.

Sorry to hear that; you drunk the Clevedon water in Brizzle? What is going on with those pipes.

Up the football league we go.  

Get well sooner.

Good afternoon All.

Do not drink the Clevedon water. That message arrived slightly too late for me and I have been off the grid for 24 hours. Now fighting fit again and ready to go to the match in my continuing presence in England. Aiming to take in as many matches as I can. The voice is almost recovered from Tuesday.

Since I cannot find anybody having stepped into the breach I offer this measly portion as todays match day on a shoe string.. thats it folks. Lets all make our contribution today and bring home a very much required three points.

Normal service will be resumed for Derby. Is that our next match? I can't keep up with it. So many matches, so little time. Two new signings; welcome to Liam Walsh, with a decent cameo on Tuesday and Ryan Kent. Loose the earrings on the pitch fella. Cheers me dears.  

Enjoy the game.

Severely depleted squad.

Far too many games in December

Naive tactic putting Flint up front leaving us hugely exposed at the back while piling forward against a decent team.

Combine these three and it is little surprise the players ran out of steam.

37 minutes ago, downendcity said:

FREEWAY?!

Is this an NFL  match day thread ? 

Happy New year Havanaand thanks for starting each matchday thread in your unique way.

Where did I write that? I guess you found it in there somewhere but with the US style context? Narghhhhh.

1 minute ago, RumRed said:

I’ll have to watch it again tbf, and I actually prefer Steele in goal, but I think FF was left between a rock and a hard place by his defence.   I can see why he did it I guess is what I’m saying.  

Cannot disagree with that either. Maggers and Pack both were poor in their decision making. As a previous poster mentioned; we were cruising to the extent we were becoming too casual. We paid the ultimate price when the game turned on a sixpence. From that moment on I could only see the game going one way.

13 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

He sent me a bunch of messages with an insult in every single one.

That enough is reason alone.

Then there was his vile comment about people being "not right in the head"

Perhaps dont jump in on stuff you are clueless about.

You firstly rub people up the wrong way then, when people get tired of it, you either throw your toys out of the pram, become insulting or lie just as you are doing now. I suggest you take a breather from otib for a while. You are extremely tiresome and childish.

1 minute ago, RumRed said:

Split second decision, Steele is a good keeper, just a shame they buried the free kick.

It was but that is what decent goalkeepers do day in day out. Fielding has done this before so I question his ability to make those critical decisions and make them correctly. We all have flaws, that is his and it cost us.

5 hours ago, RumRed said:

Perfect by Frankie, he took one for the team.

Actually, if you think about it, Frankie should have let the player by; at least then we would have 1 more player on the pitch.

7 minutes ago, Juan Kerr said:

The definition of the Black Country is open to a lot of debate. Some say it is the extent of the coal measures....all I know is that it's a shitehole and they talk funny!

According to the Daily Mail:-

Even those who live there will admit that Wolverhampton is not the most glamorous of destinations.

After decades at the heart of Britain's industrial revolution no one would expect it to be.

But not even they thought it would be named as one of the worst places to live in the entire world.

Eight years after the old market town was awarded city status the renowned Lonely Planet guide yesterday branded it the fifth worst city on the globe.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1239478/Wolverhampton-named-fifth-WORST-city-planet.html#ixzz52kxhMPNU 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Personally, I think such 'league tables' on such subjects are meaningless and small minded. I am surprised and disappointed the Lonely Planet do this.