Silvio Dante

Silly question - have you done three away games?

Can I just thank you for reverting to “Pentagon”. When you posted this the other day you called it a Pentagram and I couldn’t work out for the life of me why we were introducing satanic rituals to our game!

(I know it’s a home game but that title was too good to resist). So, Saturday. Loads of questions currently in place and a few thoughts on some of those: Will Manning change any personnel? Bluntly, I think he has to both for form and for reasons of not giving a selection that rankles immediately. No doubt in my mind that TGH will come in for Williams, and I think he has to take Bell out. I have a feeling he might play Mehmeti but reckon he’ll ultimately go Weimann on the basis of that old LJ maxim of players that can be trusted - under pressure managers like experience What does Manning need? It’s early, but I don’t think it’s necessarily “must win” - it is, however “must not lose”. And perhaps more importantly it needs to be more aggressive and front foot - there are different ways of winning/drawing/losing and I think he needs there to be some kind of assertive performance - or things will turn unless we’re winning in a passive manner (see below) What’s the atmosphere? Some like to say OTIB is not representative - it is. The feeling on here, and not just from “reactionary” posters is that something is very wrong both at board level, but increasingly from Liam - again, he didn’t create this scenario but his management in it is making it worse. I don’t see there being anything but encouragement pre game but unless there are early goals from passive play or an assertive performance, I’d say there will be rumblings around the half hour mark. Sunderland dominating will lead to it being very toxic very quickly, it’s just where we are currently. Will Sykes play a full game? Nope. He’ll be taken off on the hour for being tired, having just skinned seven Sunderland players and looking like the freshest player on the pitch. Will we win? Can’t see it. They’re coming off two good results, we’re in transition at best and it’s Mannings most difficult game to date. A positive draw is the best I think we can hope for here. One where performance is equally as important as result though.

I think Manning was always first choice (as they were aping McKenna in their mind) but did we ever find out who the mystery German was that @Kid in the Riot alluded to?

And I genuinely hope I get the same treatment vis my current critique of Manning. I’m not holding my breath, but if he does end up being a success you have carte Blanche to quote anything back.

To be fair, results can sometimes lag performance. Thats not uncommon so saying performance has been good isn’t in itself a controversial statement, (Case in point - under Holden performance was shite but results came in despite that until they regressed to what the performance deserved) The fatal flaw here is that the performances haven’t been good (there have been patches but no more than 45 minutes and that was only one game), and even more fatally, they’re getting worse as Liam spends more time “on the grass”

Dont worry, Tommys up for it! https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-star-learns-curb-8967557

Nail on head Rob.

I think you’re missing the point. The circumstances of Mannings appointment were farcical no doubt and I don’t think anyone believed what the board said. By the same token, I don’t think anyone believes Pearson is coming back. It’s not about top six, it’s about whether on evidence to date we’re progressing or regressing - I acknowledge six games is a small sample but if you’re going to criticise people for observing things that aren’t right, then we’d just as well close the forum down.

Noted, and not a million miles away from your thinking. I think the likely scenario is that he knew he didn’t have what was stated squad wise/agreed fully with public expectations (and I genuinely believe he would have done due diligence), but either underestimated the depth of the situation he’d gone into (for example I don’t think his DD would have gone as far as the Ashton shitshow and Holden to contextualise where we were), or overestimated the “coachability” of the players/his ability as a coach to change things quickly. It’s undoubtably, even with the ownership, an attractive job so I can understand the motivation. However, I mentioned Michael Appleton a few weeks ago as a coach who tried to make too many moves to bigger clubs too soon and ruined his reputation at a higher level. Part of the skill is knowing if you’re ready and the fit for your skill set. It’s possible Liam has got this horribly wrong on those fronts - irrespective of his alignment with the boards aims.

It’s an interesting point. One of my best mates is an Ipswich fan but based Bicester way so has watched Dons a fair bit and says there was huge difference with and post Twine. But he also says Manning needs time. The basic fact of that if he loses Twine and even with time it turns to ratshit the likelihood is his coaching isn’t that good so time makes no difference. I’ve got an awful feeling he’s a bluffer.

I agree - but - and I feel like a broken record here - Liam would have read the public proclamations from the morons above, he’d have done due diligence on both the squad and the expectations and would have understood the assignment (and if he didn’t he’s negligent or a moron). He either believed he had the squad or was negligent in taking the job. There’s no way, even though I agree anger is more at those above, that he gets a free pass here.

Tanner is a decent stopper fullback and could play well at this level (mid table) in the right system. Bell has a chronic lack of football intelligence and I’d go as far as saying if he wasn’t Mickeys son he’d have been released by now. I expect him to be, as I’ve said before, at L1-2 in 2-3 years time and carve a half decent career there

I think the key here is “belief” “edge” “fight” - ie the things he classed as positive (which they were) are an inherent part of the group mentality and not down to him or the coaching team. And if they’re “overloaded mentally” then Liam, sorry, you’ve got it wrong. I forget who said that football is a simple game over complicated by idiots. That quote kind of resonates currently for some reason.

Not getting at you. But Manning has precisely no history of getting results over a longer term. His best results actually came instantly at MK Dons after taking over Russell Martin’s side in August. Given time, and the chance to build his own squad, they ended up in the relegation zone (acknowledging they lost Twine but a good coach absorbs that loss without that tailspin), There is no “fact of the matter” that Manning won’t get instant results but will on long term. In fact, on the limited history the inverse is actually true and I wish people would stop stating proveably incorrect statements as fact,

Tbf mate I was more using the phrase as an “in” to the general point. I know you’re more balanced than most and understand the game, and won’t blindly say “this is great” or “this is crap”. My point was more that there is a very polarised opinion here currently - Nige is gone, nothing changes that but there is a swell of Nige good - LM bad or vice versa. What I’m saying is purely on evidence from here and elsewhere (with no comparison to Nige) that Liam is more poor than good thus far across the board. It’s possible we have made a bad call, and for the good of the club, I’d rather address that sooner than later as opposed to putting my faith in hope. (This isn’t me calling for his head - this is just me saying this is the reality of where we are)

With apologies to @Harry… Backwards. That’s the word that kept running through my head tonight. Liams had five weeks, and the performance was the worst yet, following on from a poor Huddersfield game. Today, we got back in that game through a very Nige setup goal. As we did Saturday. In fact, second half Manningball went out of the window - as Nakhi said on Robins TV it was basketball, and that played to our strengths. On the match thread early doors I commented that we left spaces between our defence and midfield lines. The goal came from that. If I could see it then it was obvious, so why couldn’t LM? The truth here is this. Over 5 (6 games if you count QPR) we’ve regressed. The managers game plan is figured out earlier each game, and we get found out earlier as a result. The fiction here is this. Manning, given time, hasn’t got a history of building sides. He took over an oven ready MK Dons side and when he made his own signings they got relegated. Manning has no history of bringing through youth. He’s not brought through academy at Oxford or Dons. There is no record. There is no evidence. There is no huge reason to suspect he is a quality coach. Thats not to say he might not be. But right now, it’s a fiction. And the truth is 5 points from 6 games and our worst run of the season.

Ironically that was also the case for the goal against Huddersfield. Playing to a teams strengths works. Funny that.

And that is the essence of the issue IMO. Hes a textbook coach. He can tell you in theory what works, but when it stops working he’s bereft. It’s why he couldn’t pull out of a tailspin at MK Dons. It’s why we keep not being able to turn games around. He has to date positively no in game awareness. And when there are two coaches, that’s a pretty bloody glaring weakness.

Thanks Yoda.

Yes, that Pep. Who could buy any player he wants. Yet still realises he had to adapt his style at every club initially to the players he had. Your point being?

Yep. Even Pep has (slightly) tailored his approach per club. Enforcing a way of playing when you don’t have the players to play that way is moronic.

And I think a contribution to the goal. If I can see it, if you can see it, I’d be damn sure Jon-Dahl Tomasson or any coach worth his salt at this level can see it. And thus far, ours can’t see that they see it (RIP Matthew Perry) and hasn’t shown an ability to combat accordingly. As I said a few games ago, sides are sussing us earlier as Mannings reign progresses. Was always going to happen as the element of surprise was removed.

Few times already Blackburn found spaces between the defensive and midfield lines. Defenders not advancing/midfield not dropping. One to keep an eye on

Nor does saying “We are playing well for 90 (or even 60) minutes” make sense under Manning. Hopefully that changes tonight.