Silvio Dante

For Christ’s sake Dave

You know what I’m going to ask now. Overlay into that bottom chart Oxford (23-24 LM), Oxford (22-23 LM), Oxford (22-23 KR), MK (22-23 LM), MK (21-22 LM) and MK (20-21 RM) (Only if you have time, obvs )

Is that Luke Freeman?

Whats interesting there is how central on the axis that Ipswich are. I’d always expect Leicester and Soton to be where they are, both because of managers style of play, but more pertinently quality (I.e teams will sit in and let them have the ball). Ipswich are bang on the mid axis for number of passes but also play far quicker than others. Many (including me) have suggested that Manning is influenced by McKenna (I believe LM may even have said this himself), but this shows a willingness to mix it up, not hold ball for the sake of ball and more importantly speed of attacks/transition.

Reminds me of Jimmy Ormond going out to bat where he was met by Mark Waugh: MW : Look who it is. Mate what are you doing out here, there’s no way you’re good enough to play for England JO: Maybe not, but at least I’m the best player in my family.

You’re not wrong but you’re overly simplistic. For what seems the umpteenth time: - The circumstances Manning is taking over in are markedly different to those faced by Pearson, so naturally expectations are different - And this is why (on both sides) the comparing Manning and Pearson helps nobody. Manning is fair for criticism based on what he’s done so far but that criticism should be based on what he’s done, not “what would Nige do” The point you make, with respect, has been made before and has no relevance

I think that, as you rightly say, Pearson isn’t coming back and I think the comparisons between him and Manning have run there course. It’s more for me now whether Manning can (a) do it at this level and (b) do it at this club - those are two slightly different things. As you know, to date I’ve not been impressed - I have seen a coach who has tried to template a system on a squad it doesn’t fit, and more concerningly, has poor in game management. So for me the jury is out on whether he is the right man. He hasn’t said he needs three windows as some state - he has however stated he doesn’t see it as a rebuild (pre Hudds). That says to me that he expects with maybe 1-2 players to have the squad firing his way - that doesn’t mean playoffs, but it does mean marked improvement from what we’re seeing. I’m unconvinced given time he gets it right - we can go over the old MK ground and losing Twine, but he had a top 6 budget per their fans and made poor signings (EP article) - although it’s possible Winkleman is related to Lansdown - and got worse. Oxford their fans feel he was backed heavily (and I’d acknowledge recency and bitterness bias) which proportionally he won’t get to the same level here. At best it’s 50:50 for getting it right in time. So, for me he’s in an audition phase. Hes probably failing the audition at the moment based on (mainly) the in game management. My feeling is he won’t be sacked but I’m equally as unconvinced he’s the man to spend the nest egg. I’d give him the 1-2 players he indicates he wants in January (but not wholesale spend) but if we’re still in the same place in May with the performances and more importantly the in game management I’d be looking at whether he was the right man for this squad and look to bring someone in who may fit it better and evolve as opposed to undertaking a project that may or may not work. Obviously if we lose 16 on the bounce (or win 16 on the bounce) that changes but I think it looks a realistic approach.

That is very revealing into Brian’s character (noting it’s written from Wilson’s perspective)

Yep, I often think when being spoonfed faeces that “it could be worse, I could be being urinated on as well*” so accept it as my lot. Theres some drivel posted but this be careful what you wish for nonsense always takes the cake *I am, of course, fully aware that for some golden showers are your bag. I’m not judging you. Enjoy, but in the words of Neil Warnock, enjoy it by being disciplined. Or not. Thats another thing.

Or as could equally be directed at Steve, Jon and Brian: ”Look out kids, it’s something you did…”

It’s pace of change isn’t it? Thats a point I’ve been pretty consistent on and Dave has also articulated well. I think his biggest mistake so far is to go total baby:bathwater and impose the new “style” when it didn’t fit with the squad he had. I’ve actually got no issue with him moving towards that if it’s how he wants to play (caveat - and it gets results) even if I’m not sure it’s a style I like, but the first move I think most coaches should make is assess what they have and see what works and then gradually implement that style if it’s best for the resources they have. Effectively he’s pushed himself into a poorer start than he needed to. I couldn’t care less about some of the stuff he’s getting stick for (looking down in interviews FFS) but doing that has really set the alarm bells ringing for me in terms of flexibility, compounded by the in game management. So you dig deeper into what was he like elsewhere, what did he do elsewhere and so on.

I’m wondering whether it’s some kind of “Brewsters Millions” scenario where for Jon to get his inheritance he must first lose several million pounds. It’d explain how he runs the club

I think I did answer your points and apologies if it didn’t come across that way. Let me be crystal clear so you are in no doubt: - I didn’t agree with the decision to sack Pearson but agree we must move on from that - I don’t think top six is attainable My concern in the here, in the now, is whether Manning is performing for Bristol City. And clearly, if Pearson had been sacked as a response to fans calling for it no, he wouldn’t have been held to the same scrutiny as he is now because by definition he would have been taking over a poor scenario. He wasn’t. So it’s fair that he should do as well or better than the prior occupant - I don’t think that’s unreasonable in any walk of life. As to whether in the unlikely event he was sacked - which wasn’t called for - the next occupant would be held to the same standard the answer is again, obviously no as he’d be taking over a side that is confused, playing poorly and is in bad form. Again by definition that would get more time but it’s currently the scenario LM has managed us into in his six games (again acknowledging the small sample) And as for whether he’s delivering in the here - it’s fair to say we have regressed. It’s fair to say the Blackburn first goal was coming. If you don’t agree then that’s your perogative. It’s also then reasonable in response to the “we need to give him time” argument to assess what he does when given that time. And it’s a stone cold fact that given time at MK Dons he turned them into relegation candidates. I’m not sure that’s controversial either. The only way I see him in relation to Pearson is that he was the next man in. And I’ve been clear elsewhere that he didn’t create the scenario. What he has done thus far is not imbue confidence that he can improve things, which leads to natural questions. And, fwiw, if you don’t like permeating discontent you’re probably supporting the wrong club!

Couple more interesting links - clearly some recency bias because of how he left Oxford but some useful background. https://yellowsforum.co.uk/threads/liam-manning.9227/page-171 https://yellowsforum.co.uk/threads/a-bristol-city-fan-us-thoughts-on-liam-manning.10103/ This certainly resonates!

Last month, the evening post published an article following LMs appointment with interviews from both Oxford and MK Dons fans. Those fans interviewed appear to be knowledgeable and articulate and gave interesting answers. It’s worth re-reading one month on as we can see what chimes and what doesn’t to date. There are undoubtedly similarities here but there are equally some things where it sounds like a different coach: https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/liam-mannings-lessons-mk-dons-8897745.amp

Bizarrely enough, I was looking back at the EP article from when LM was appointed which gave Dons and Oxford fans views. It was notable that the Oxford fan said that when Manning was appointed he said “He’d look to the academy first for players” - on a word for word basis it was practically the same quote he gave here. Ignoring whether that actually transpired what it does prove is that he’s got a lot - and I mean a lot - of stock phrases (as do most coaches) - behaviours, process, emotion, cat and mouse etc and I don’t think you’ll ever get much outside of those. The points been made before but it certainly appears to be the case. I think the looking down is a trait and it’s more to do with seeing which phrase fits. Essentially I wouldn’t be too fussed about him looking down as I’d imagine he’s different with players. However, and equally, I don’t think you’ll ever get anything other than a scripted and fairly mundane answer to any question so trying to glean insights from the post and pre match is often pointless with LM. The interesting bit is where his scripted points (eg Sykes sub reason) make no sense in the context of the game

It’s noticeable that you all have your names in what I’d call a “polite” font of upper case/lower case (I.e. Dave Fevs), with the exception of one man: - IAN What that tells you about him I don’t know

Alright Jimmy, calm down…

Have you never pulled at 7pm and not had to continue to the clubs? It was 15 games in. That’s near as damnit a third. I’m not saying we’d have made the playoffs - I’m saying if you offered most managers a side 4 points off the playoffs after 1/3 of the season it’d be considered in most cases a good platform for a possible push.

4 points off the playoffs on taking charge and in 10th place is definitely flirting. It’s not full on rubbing your backside against a crotch but it’s definitely giving the eye from across the room. Wouldn’t be a guarantee it would come to anything, but it is 100% flirting.

And therein is your contradiction. You rightly say these boys aren’t robots, but then also make excuses for Manning trying to directly impose a style immediately (and in his words overloading them) when they may not suit or even understand what he wants them to do. If he understands they’re not robots, then he should also understand they can’t implement pages 216-274 of the big book of coaching and he might need to adapt his style. Every other coach that has been a success does that, and not all of them had the platform of a side flirting with the playoffs when they took over.

My 12 year old should know better, but collapses in laughter every time there is an ad for the new Wonka film.

Possibly that as well. To return to an often made point, there is a big difference in quality of teams between L1 and the Champ - yes, you may get an Ipswich but more frequently you get a Rotherham. If the quality of teams is less at L1, it stands to reason the (general) quality of managers is better at the championship. They react quicker, adapt tactically better and counter you better. I think, as I’ve said before, it’s in a large way why we are where we are. Liam had methods that worked in L1 (sometimes!) and has tried to impose those on our team as they are his philosophy. But they are also the philosophy of many modern coaches, so if everyone is doing it you need to be better. And our squad is not set up to be better at that game. Opponents (both managerial and players) then can counter and pick us off. Because they are simply better managers than he’s used to facing. And again, the lack of a plan B/adaptability in game (other than taking off Sykes) is a glaring to date hole when other managers have that quality. The underestimation and sticking to a tactic not fitting the squad is as naive as if we’d played long balls to Riley and Neville.

On that game (which I think was 2018) I recall Famara handballing (clearly) to try and blag a hat trick and it being the start of a rather impressive loan spell by Lois Diony. As a parent, however, what I more remember is that I allowed my then 9 year old daughter to swear as much as she wanted when we were back in the car to let out her frustration. Parenting.

Then I’m very very sorry that you had to go through that.