The Swan and Cemetery

Tonight at least didn’t think his distribution was too bad, as mainly short balls, but he’s definitely no Naismith when it comes to longer balls.

Back 8 played well to a man, thought Vyner and James in particular. Front 3 (/4 with Wells) frustrating with a lack of composure letting them down. But a very decent performance at a place we’ve often struggled.

If only we had Lyle Taylor up front.

Err, think it pretty much guarantees a second half of the season revival for City, just missing out on automatic, followed by play off glory. First game of the Prem 23/24 season an avine derby at Selhurst Park.

Absolutely. Philippa Vale running rings ‘round everyone. They definitely don’t make them like they used to.

Maybe he’s Terence Alexander’s nephew and met SL at a Channel Island yacht party hosted by Charlie Hungerford.

Right now, I’d go for a keeper in the Smith loan role. Whilst we’re struggling defensively across the park, it seems the outfield players have, understandably, low confidence in either O’Leary or Bentley, which is very unhelpful for both open play and set pieces.

Not meant as a dig at you, as agree with the point, but the binary nature of the decision - NP stays or goes - makes the debate more heated, when I doubt many people are entirely 100/0 or 0/100 either way. As someone who is in the ‘stay’ camp, I’m also a long way from NP is getting everything right/nothing to improve, just that I’m above 50:50 (but not hugely) in his favour (currently) for a variety reasons including the financial situation, (willing) alternatives and so on. None of that means he’s doing a great job, just that backed into a binary choice, I’d vote stay/remain… Lawdy, time for the politics forum…

Think your definition of success is probably fair, less convinced not getting promotion is therefore ‘abject’ (etc) failure, as some have indicated. Given mathematics + parachute payments mean success is tricky, do think we need a Plan B which maybe not what we want, but doesn’t destroy our club for the BCFC masochists of the future. Think SL has probably done a decent job of Plan B (albeit maybe too much of it Bristol Sport, rather than Bristol City, although I can see the logic) with more non match day income streams etc, but Plan A hasn’t come to fruition/has failed - however I do have sympathy given it’s very tricky. The (simplistic) odds of finishing in the bottom 21 seven seasons in a row are approx 6/4, so we’re doing worse than evens, but not dramatically so.

Which still offers nothing to explain the view that seems to believe we’re pretty much on the Downs, rather than the lower half of the Championship, due to scandalous mismanagement by SL.

Don’t really get the extent to which lots seem to think we’ve massively under performed: Since Divisions 1 to 4 introduced: 60% of seasons in top 2 divisions (4 in the top division, 37 in the second) Since 1996 (SL’s first involvement?): 56% in the Championship Since 2002 (SL chairman?): 67% in the Championship Understand we’d want to have experienced the Premier League and are frustrated that some smaller clubs have (but equally lots of big clubs have spent quality time in lower divisions), but struggle to see it as ‘abject failure’ etc, more not getting what we want in a context when everyone is trying to go up, but not everyone can - we also haven’t gone down much.

Great to have a thread where we can all agree that context behind statistics is relevant and just quoting statistics is of limited value.

Unfortunately, Ashton’s role was probably exactly what was needed, but the individual was the opposite - someone with decent football knowledge, business acumen and competence and we might be able to a have a manager much more oriented towards coaching, rather than sorting out a lot of the background mess. As it is Pearson has to dedicate much of his efforts to off pitch problems (and rightly so in my view - this is O’Driscoll 2.0, frustrating on the pitch, but when he’s gone, we’ll be glad of what he sorted out).

There’s a risk in football that we assess success vs what we want to achieve, rather than what we are achieving, but as it’s zero sum, as many must be failing/going down as succeeding/going up. Based on a quick look at the 2015/16 table, we’re joint 3rd longest serving in the Championship. Brentford and Bournemouth were with us that season, so were Derby and Sheffield Wednesday. Personally not convinced we’re failing, but we maybe (8 consecutive seasons in the same league) a bit boring. Pretty sure SL doesn’t wake every morning, look in the mirror and say “yet one more day of perfect decision making ahead Steve” as lots of decisions, particularly with hindsight, haven’t been great, but “pox”, definitely not.

For now I’d keep, not because I think he’s doing an amazing job/is the messiah, but because I think we need to give someone a decent chance at properly changing how City operate, culture etc. I think NP has made decent progress at a lot that, but lots more to be done and if it isn’t done, think we’ll be on our traditional hamster wheel of getting someone else in, maybe a bit of a bounce initially, but then the same old, same old. If we keep going with NP, we’ll be setting ourselves up for success with a (probably better than NP) coach in a year or two. There are other ways to do it, eg NP to DoF immediately and bring in a new coach for the first team etc etc, but all cost money and bring their own risks. So for now, I’m stick, but that’s far from saying NP is getting it all right, he isn’t, just think this is a time for a strategic approach (fix the foundations), rather than our (and most other clubs) tactical ‘not winning, change manager’ approach, that doesn’t seem to move us forward in any consistent way. I’m not 100/0 keep NP, but I am above 50/50.

Which would be true, if anyone was actually saying that.

Would like to see crazy football, start with some windmills and tunnels and what-not, gradually getting more difficult until clay pigeons are flying left, right and centre as the world’s footballing elite attempts to hit them.

Rotherham United alumni getting the World Cup they so richly deserve.

Risk on both sides of the argument of confirmation bias. For those wanting NP gone, everything bad is his fault, everything good due to someone/something else, for those wanting him to stay, the opposite. Think most likely that the answer is somewhere in between.

Not sure it can be guaranteed? Maybe others in the squad are hacked off with Atkinson? Not sure we know.

He absolutely loved booking Andi and Antoine, particularly jogging across to get in Antoine’s face. Narcissistic show pony of which there are far too many, given what should be a decent standard of refereeing.

For me it’s whether consistency comes and when it does, which direction is it. Don’t buy that we’re awful, yesterday wasn’t as bad as lots seem to think, in my view. Equally Rotherham wasn’t earth shatteringly brilliant. We’re not going on consistently good or bad runs and think that’s a reasonable reflection of a pretty weak squad that’s in a pretty weak league. January feels important as an opportunity to sort some stuff out and equally rivals will be looking to do the same - if we get it wrong, maybe we get dragged in to a relegation fight, get it right and maybe we head the other way. Don’t think NP is the messiah or a genius and whilst I get that expecting folk who want NP gone to name their replacement isn’t their job, equally there would have to be a replacement and right now, I’m sticking with NP as not convinced there are clearly better options to work with what we have and do think we’ve made progress in some areas.

It’s contested as folk have different views. That doesn’t make mean those contesting are aggressive or happy clappers/NP acolytes, just different views. Personally think there’s more lazy “happy clappers” posts from those who want NP out, than aggressive defenders of NP.

Agree seems odd. Wonder if it’s mental preparedness rather than physical? Didn’t he pull out of a game late on last season as not feeling ready to play, or have I imagined/misremembered that? Definitely get the vibe that NP doesn’t want to be picking AK at CB but a combination of various travails across TK/TK/RA means he feels he has to.

Just about coped and with quite different personnel/style, including a reasonably in form Martin and Semenyo up top. Not sure going back to that, even with different players, is the way forward. But a fair point that if we can get our back 5 working well, the need for 3 more traditional centre mids is less compelling, but right here, right now, don’t think we’ve got that luxury. Maybe some Jan movements can help, but will need a really good 5 at the back (and GK) to enable 2 from Williams/James/Scott to be sufficient.