ExiledAjax

6 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Can’t see us spending any money on this position.

We've recently been spending £200k on wingbacks, £600k on CBs, £1m on CMs and forwards. I agree, no way are we dropping £1m on a goalkeeper.

We're more likely to take Phillips than Johansson from Rotherham - not that I think we'll take either!

Ps. I don't think we need to spend any money on GKs, neither 1 or 2. Max is fine and I don't think a No.2 goalie should ever be a squad's priority.

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Would we make a play for him? Imagine him and O'Leary who I'm absolutely fine with pushing and competing with each other.

Of course he may not want to go somewhere where he wouldn't be top choice and can't blame for that.

I think both Johansson and O'Leary will expect (and frankly deserve) to be a largely uncontested No.1 next season. 

5 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Easiest solution is the cap wages at all levels surely?

Good luck getting it past the PFA https://www.thepfa.com/news/2021/2/9/pfa-welcomes-withdrawal-of-salary-cap-rules

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Thanks for your kind words.  Just a small part of a great forum / community.

If it helps to balance things out; I don't respect you at all.

Now I've got that off my chest, Tinnion is out of his depth, no doubt about it. See also JL's recent interview where the confusion/blurred lines between Tinnion, JL, Marshall and Rawcliffe were clear to see. I bang on about it but the deletion of the club-specific CEO and the spreading of those responsibilities amongst 4 people is, in my simple opinion, the single worst decision made at the club last season.

It's also a decision that singularly demonstrates the egos in the boardroom, the naivety on the footballing side, the hubris of favouring people who "know the club" over talent, the desire to things the "pure" way, the closed shop attitude etc. 

It's bonkers, and it has the butterfly effect of leading to things like this tweet.

48 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Sorry not sure I really get the point, if all you are doing is taken what is done now, i.e giving a prem club money so they can afford players contracts with no consequence, but we all agree this gives them a big advantage over non PP clubs, by introducing a penalty to level the playing field makes sense. The clever bit will be getting the points deduction so its not to severe that any prem club will be looking at relegation, but also taking away the huge advantage they have now and making it fairer to the rest of the division.

I have not looked over the last few seasons, so would need a lot more calculation, but if you said that a prem clubs takes 100% of PP so starts the season on -20 points the 3 relegated clubs would still have been around the playoffs, so perhaps deduction needs to be 25 points, but a formula could be worked that gives a deduction but with a good season would still be near the top and promoted back. 

Of course a lot of number crunching will go on to work out if I am better off with 50% and lower deduction, or 25% of PP, but this will encourage the prem clubs to come in line

My point is purely one of being careful of unforseen consequences. 

As soon as you place a £value on a single point, you enter a world where points can effectively be bought or sold, even if that's a club buying/selling points to itself in future seasons.

If we're going to down something like a handicap then I'd be more in favour of handicapping the points that a relegated PL team wins for a win/draw. Maybe they only get 2.5 for a win and .5 for a draw?

I don't love that idea, as I don't want to link financial clout to sporting success any more than it already is, but my gut feeling is that it's less open to manipulation than your system.

1 minute ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

You allow the parachute payments as it is now or modify slightly, but if the relegated club takes the offer of the payments they start the season with a points deduction, (would be simple to work a formula that equates PP to points). The amount they take can be on a sliding scale, so the bigger the PP the bigger the deduction.

Interesting.

There is some chat in the industry to the effect that this is basically what is starting to happen with PSR/FFP fines. The recent Everton and Forest cases have both discussed the danger of imposing a fixed ratio of -points:£breach.

That danger being that if clubs know that a breach of £6.5m means -1 points, then a nefarious but talented club can calculate how much it can breach the PSR/FFP rules by without suffering a points deduction that results in relegation (from either the league or European places).

So my fear would be that you'd see, for example, Leicester come down, and they'd say "we reckon we would normally finish 9 points clear of 3rd place". So they gamble, and take a -8 penalty, and get a truckload of cash in return. They hit par, still go up, and have softened the blow. 

You also still warp the general pay structure of the division, so causing clubs like us to half to either risk bankruptcy/breach of FFP in chasing the wages, or limit ourselves to those players who will take what we can offer. So you still get the disparity and concentration of talent in the rich teams.

I don't think it's a shit idea in principle, but I think it's very prone to being gamed and this not actually solving anything.

4 minutes ago, chinapig said:

They do rather tie themselves in knots. 11th under Nigel would be under achieving and a sackable offence. The same under Manning is only just below expectations.

They are so inept they can't even lie consistently.

Had Nigel stayed and achieved his 64 points...we'd be 10th (I don't think +1 points reels in Cov's +11 GD).

Then he could have left gracefully at the end of his contract, with everyone hugging and happy, and a managed handover to someone new (possibly Manning, possibly someone else). Fanbase kept onside, players part of the process, smooth, planned, efficient. Maybe that's a naïve utopian idea of mine, but it's what I hoped would happen when I looked forward to 23/24 this time last year.

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

So why not?

Not that this needs another thread, but it wouldn't work.

1) if you force PL teams to reduce wages to the average Championship wage then you're putting them at a disadvantage as inevitably half of the other teams will be paying more than them.

2) this assumes that you even know what the average is. Yes agents and players will have an idea of it, but if the average is publicly known then that probably means clubs have published their wages. Which they won't do.

3) is it just players that stay with the club or is it new signings as well? Manager? Coaches? Office staff? Canteen staff? Who else are you going to impose a wage cut on during a cost of living crisis?

4) will PL agents/players accept this? Might they simply switch to being released on relegation, which wouldn't solve the problem. Most already have singularly negotiated wage reductions (that still see them paid well above the "average" championship wage) anyway, but that's very different to a block blanket cap.

5) related to 4 above, have fun fighting the PFA and their lawyers. They're powerful, they're well resourced (by the millionaire players that make up their membership), and Maheta and his mates won't let this through.

It's a noble idea, but imo you've not thought through the full repercussions.

41 minutes ago, Bedred31 said:

Championship was a tougher league this season. Last year, 45 points = safety and 69 points got you into the playoffs, meaning there was a 4-5 point + swing this year. Have a feeling it could be better still next season, so this close season is going to be v important.

Nice to see an assessment of the points return that takes it in context. Clearly getting more points than last season is progress, and it's been done in a season where the thresholds for automatic promotion, playoffs, and relegation are all higher than last season and all notably higher than average.

Other than Rotherham, it's been a tough league, almost every team has at times been on a good run of form and played good football.

On 03/08/2023 at 17:05, ExiledAjax said:

I've said it's a season where luck is gunna play a part. Hopefully we're lucky and get the penalties we deserve, hopefully we're lucky and get some deflections, some tackles that should be injuries aren't, hopefully it all works out.

If it largely goes our way then 6th/7th is possible...if not then we'll be 12th or below.

Hence I go 9th and cross my fingers.

So two spots below what I guessed. One win away from getting it bob on. This thread is from before Scott was sold as well, although it's clear that many of us guessed that he would be going. Maybe we made our own bad luck with a slightly unnecessary managerial change in October. 

Still, apparently 66% called it correctly with a vote for the 7th - 12th range.

On 03/08/2023 at 18:36, ExiledAjax said:

Who on earth thinks we're going top 2. ******* hell.

I stand by this though

2 minutes ago, Franklin CITY said:

I smell Gas

No, it's just a sad old man who's now onto what must be his 73rd OTIB account. 

Just now, Davefevs said:

The season isn’t over yet, surely we can have a meltdown over the retained list first!

"Dire Mebude has signed a three year contract".

...

But, jokes aside, this season will be remembered for events off the pitch rather than on it. An 11th placed finish with +2 GD and a decent home record won't live long in the memory at all. Pretty much a par result given wage budget, revenue, history, and any number of other metrics/indicators you could use. It's really been quite standard out on the grass.

But, obviously what will be remembered, what has been unusual, is the off the pitch stuff. The fallout between Steve Lansdown and Alexander in the summer, including both claiming credit for the biggest transfer fee we've ever received. Ditching the CEO role. The sacking of Pearson, replaced by Manning, the winter window that largely failed. Heavy losses, car crash interviews. It's just been a very poor season off the pitch.

But hey, we got to the semi-final of the U18 FA Youth Cup, so it's not all been terrible.

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

For the avoidance of doubt if for example next season 68 points secures 6th place and we get 62 points, I'd consider that progression. 

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

Enjoy your bank holiday.

58 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Wasn’t a loan

Fair enough.

Just now, Owl Visiting said:

Think this was before you switched managers. 

Congratulations. Thoroughly impressed. My boss is a Wednesday fan as well so I'm happy for you.

Enjoy your derby next season!

6 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Finished last season 10 points off the play offs. Finished this season 11 points off the play offs. Progression 

6th place had 69 points last season.

73 this season. 

So it's not quite the same is it?

Marinovic

1 hour ago, Northern Red said:

Do we know he would have wanted a coaching deal?

I wonder the same.

Whether he wanted one or not, I hope it was his decision. It wouldn't be good if we'd willingly let him leave the building without checking whether he might want to stay.

Whatever he does in his second career I'm sure he'll do it very well. 

To be read in your best John Cooper Clarke voice.

I will Will Still to move to Pill, then to the Gate to instill a will, to win, and thrill.

if not,

we'll still stand still, and lose.

to nil.

But will Will Still come climb this hill, with us?

Or will Will Still yet take his fill at Reims,

or Lille?

Still sat in the hôtel de ville with the will to kill,

our dreams.

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I reckon Viktor could drink 600 pints and still perform better between the sticks than Dillon Phillips did against us!

Looked a shell of the player Cardiff had a while back. 

Nice parting gift from Johansson. No way he's playing L1 next season.

59 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

I guess they take into account what’s riding on the games. All those nominated have promotion / relegation issues to contend with. 
Despite the significant upturn in form - and it really is better - the games have, ultimately, been dead-rubbers. 

They presumably also know that we have only improved because Manning was weak enough to listen to the players when they finally told him that we needed to change. That abject failure to spot the issue himself, and his desperate need to be educated by Zak Vyner, means he can never be awarded a nomination. 

*Joke

Note as well that I believe this is the same 777 as own the British Basketball League.

I get that it's cool to think that the PL has a conspiracy to help Everton limp from season to season, but I don't think it stands up to scrutiny.

An immediate -9 wouldn't even necessarily relegate Everton. 

The PL don't directly control when/if Everton go into administration, as I understand it the PL isn't a creditor or shareholder of Everton so I don't see them having standing to issue a winding up petition themselves.

There's an argument that a decision not to ratify 777 as an owner would indirectly push Everton over the edge, but I suspect either RMF or MSP would step in and fill the void.

My suspicion is that it is more likely that one of those other lenders - RMF or MSP - are the ones that stand to gain here. RMF have security over Bramley Dock, and aside from player registrations that is the cherry on this rotten cake.

MSP meanwhile seems to have a charge over Moshiri's shares. So again they could take those if 777 fall away.

So there is a world where 777 fall away, -9 does nothing to Everton's status in the PL, and you end up with one dodgy lender owning the current club and Goodison, and one owning Bramley Dock.

The vultures circle.

49 minutes ago, Derby Boy said:

It's a team game and whilst he only accasionally does something spectacular he'll be an effective cog in the Manning midfield getting the ball to players who have got into good positions.

Which for me brings to mind Alex Scott. He's similarly not a "highlights reel" player in terms of spectacular goals and the like. He did awesome stuff every now and then but his real value was his ability to just keep the ball moving, the midfield ticking, and the opposition guessing.

1 minute ago, chinapig said:

Further complicated by the loans from other creditors (£160m) being secured on the new stadium and more than half of Moshiri's shares.

It's a Gordian knot but Alexander the Great is unlikely to take the club over.

It's an absolute mess of secured and unsecured debt, there will be a big fight over any priority. Chuck some football creditors in there as well of course.

I'm not sure the Alexandrian method of solving the problem would be favoured by Everton fans!