NickJ

Yes and the pro rata points for the season has now jumped to 61 points which makes SC's record 70% better than SOD's. FACT

Yes according to you (you're wrong) 82% (32 out of 38) of Forest fans in that thread think he's a poor manager, therefore we have to think that as well. Yeah right. Let me know which 6 posts are the ones that doesn't say he's a poor manager, then I will prove you wrong with the others that also don't say that.

Don't have a clue what you did there. Must admit it made me laugh though. Are you saying, Cotterill is a winner?

We were extremely shit not to say boring as **** as you know! under O'Driscoll, who is a good coach but not an inspirational leader and manager. We have improved results wise 55% under Cotterill which is as good an improvement as we could have expected. Well mate Burnley fans in the main like and respect Cotterill, Notts County and Cheltenham could hardly say anything other than he's a good manager, and on the thread I highlighted the majority of Forest fans likewise. A Bristol City fan asked Forest what they think of Cotterill. Are they, given our history with them, going to: a) "congratulations Bristol we really like you lot and you've got a great manager" OR b) take the opportunity to have a pop and even if the entire country especially Forest hate him, as you have said is the case Will, which I've proved is not the case, does that mean we have to too, while he is OUR manager? Oi Cotterill we are Bristol City fans we don't have your sort here we like our managers to be MENSA members so **** off you thick wide boy. Yes that's really pulling together congratulations everyone involved in that, sorry but I really don't get that mentality. I'm not saying Cotterill is a great manager, I really don't know. But he seems to be respected as being an honest hard working type capable of getting more out of teams than is expected, who says odd things sometimes - so what, don't we all. And he is OUR manager!

You are incorrect. This is the thread I highlighted: http://www.forest.vitalfootball.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=24192&start=1 KId and Alex decided to reply by reference to a completely different thread. Now that's what I call spin.

That thread was started by a City fan who asked Forest what they thought of him. Given the history between us and Forest, I should imagine that was seen as an open invitation to take the piss out of us. As soon as the first few got in with cheap digs, the herd effect took over. I've noticed that on forums not too many have the balls to go against the vocal minority, but when they do, the previously silent majority will get involved.....

Well I will guess its going to be because the teams at the bottom with us have also performed better. If that theory is correct, then the teams further up the table must have done worse..... Which looking at the table, you can see is the case. When SC took over, we were 16 points off the play of places (yes, ha ha). If results had continued pro rata the same for all teams, you would have expected us to be by now 27 points off the play offs, whereas we are only 20 points away. Bit of a rough and ready measure, but its clear there has been a bunching effect where most/all of the teams at the bottom have improved.

OK back from the pub suitably refreshed and I see that like Will, Alex has also been bunking off his maths lessons. Tut tut. There are 38 posts on the thread in question. I'd say they can be classified and counted as follows: In praise of Cotterill for a reasonable job 13 Don't rate as manager but no hard feeling 6 Critical of Cotterill and OTIBesque insults 11 No comments on Cotterill 8 So in other words, 19 out of 30 (that's 63%) who expressed a view on Cotterill, do not despise him. Or, at most, 37% (very different to 95% Will and very different to 15 out of 16 Alex) despise Cotterill, although none actually said anything like that. So, Burnley like him, Forest don't mind him, lets see what Cheltenham and Notts County have to say tomorrow. Tomorrow's sermon: "How to draw Conclusions based on Fact"

Which is what I'm about to do now at my local I'm working too hard in amongst defending OUR manager's good name! PS I have at least moved you from - nothing at all good about him on the internet to - 95% despised to - massively outweighed and even your latest position is still wrong I will chip away again tomorrow! I'm about before and after Saturday send a text if you are I can impart more words of wisdom and for Harry I'm sure he's just itching to get involved in this ha ha

He is OUR manager Will and whatever you or anyone else may have thought about the appointment, he should be supported. Of course he's a mercenary, that's his job, so are all managers and players. Doesn't mean SC isn't doing his best for us and believe me, he is. And as much as I like you I cannot allow you to peddle untruths. The thread is not 95% anti SC, here are some more comments: - Don't hate him. Job was a poisoned chalice at the time. Wish him well. - He might not have been the most inspiring of choices but he was brought in to serve a purpose at a very difficult time for the club. He, along with the help of SO'D did that. - No hate for him from me - Kept his promise, kept us up and good luck to him in the future. - did OK, we've moved on and so has he- wish him well. - It was mission impossible for anyone at the time. Fair play to him for keeping us up, which was a task easier said than done. - He came in done a job with someone else's team with some loans thrown in kept us up, pat on the back for that as i thought we were going one way, and then sacked as all owners want there own staff in sooner or later and as far as i'm concerned really the end of it. Never hated him but never loved him either. - Think he and SOD could have been a great duo combination. Complemented each other strength and weaknesses well. - I felt a tinge sorry for the guy, only because he had to work for the biggest pair of Muppets our club has ever seen since 1865. - Cotterill achieved the best anyone could have asked of him when he came into the job. - he is a nice enough bloke so have no personal grudge against him.

Sorry mate but he is OUR manager and you are not correct! Forest: http://www.forest.vitalfootball.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=24192&start=1 Among the mainly complementary or at least respectful comments I particularly like: As has already been said, he came in to a difficult situation. He realised he couldn't do it on his own, brought in a good coach and, with a bit of wheeling and dealing got the right bodies in and we stayed up. Brought in good people - ironically SOD - to work with him. That's a strength and a sign of a good manager. I like the common sense here: He came in to keep us in the Championship and achieved just that. Some may argue that Sean O'Driscoll and the addition of Adlene Guedioura helped him achieve that goal, but Cotterill was the manager, the job got done under his tenure and he should have left with his head held high. And this sums up quite well: He inherited a mess...a thread bare squad, players with no confidence , injuries worked against him too...guys, the strike force that he had at his disposal is barely making the bench this year Even the posters who criticise his management mainly recognize the difficult situation at Forest and in the main wish him well, so no, Forest supporters do not despise Cotterill.

Behave Will. Burnley: http://www.clarets-mad.co.uk/feat/edx6/steve_cotterill__june_2004_to_november_2007_297698/index.shtml Sample quotes: He was Burnley manager for just over three seasons and....we always looked in with a chance of reaching the play offs In his first season in particular it was remarkable given the size of the squad Cotterill's third, and ultimately final, season got off to a great start. We were playing our best football in a long time and headed the league for a while Given what he started with there is no doubt that he definitely improved the club He will though be judged by many on results alone. We never did make a sustained challenge for the play offs, but he kept us in the second tier of English football for three years and that, looking back, was some achievement in, at times, difficult circumstances.

That's just a title Will. He was manager in all but name, he had ultimate responsibility for the playing staff. At Forest he was number 2 and it worked. Here he was number 1 whatever you call it. He may be a coach, but he cannot manage, and part of his role irrespective of title, was to manage. That was probably a failing of the board to think that one through, but when the board is led by somebody with little experience, predictably inevitable. Anyway that's off my agenda, I'm just ****** off with SC being hammered while he is OUR manager.

Exactly, as coach Will. He isn't a manager. A few random quotes from a Forest forum: He should stick to being a coach or No.2. He'd be amongst the best around in those jobs instead of being a mediocre manager I just think that he was too cerebral for the average footballer .. Lovely bloke but.............. That's what you get when your over cautious and your teams are boring as **** He deserved to get sacked at Forest too. His boring over cautious football had us a single point worse off than this time this season They are talking about O-Driscoll BTW.

CRACKING POSTS

Of course you can say anything with stats, the question, is it both based on accurate facts, and is it meaningful. Extrapolating points per game of both managers this season over a full term, SOD comes out at 36, and SC comes out at 56. No team has ever stayed up with 36 points, and no team has ever been relegated with 56 points. Hence, you are incorrect, points per game under the current manager is sufficient to stay up, the problem is the weight of the opening 19 games. Or, if you like, as you might put it, SC is "bright enough" to keep us up, whereas SOD wasn't "bright enough" to keep us up. Many of the comments about SOD have been since he left, not while he was here. I think you would be very hard pressed to assemble a collection of quotes about SOD with anywhere near as much vitriol and personal insults as I have reproduced in this thread.

Cant argue with that as fact (although if I were SC I'd point out the win record at Notts County was 78%) however if for example I had a vendetta against Brian Clough I'd consider omitting Hartlepool, Forest and Derby, highlighting his record at Brighton and Leeds, and in keeping with the fanatical OTIB support I would feel obliged to say he was an egotistical tosser, a clown, a penis and clueless.

The significant difference between the criticism of SOD and now SC are: 1) Those of SC started from day one, whereas at least SOD was given the courtesy of an opportunity to prove he was a failure 2) Those at SC have been full of personal venom, vitriol and character assassination to a degree thankfully not directed at SOD. That is my essential point.

Apologies however I missed the glaring error in the above, namely that results are in fact 55% better under SC, to date.

You can't help yourself can you, but, I put good money on you wouldn't even say that last one face to face, and if I were SC I'd invite you along and put that to the test. In amongst the personal insults of your previous post there were some reasonable points but why you feel compelled to attempt to publically insult the man who is on OUR SIDE I'm sorry but I just cannot comprehend.

In point of fact your description was "egotistical bollocks" and in a separate post hilariously thought he was "50% David Brent 50% Mike Bassett". In my judgment that is indeed making judgments, unnecessarily personal ones, on the guys personality. Why would you feel the need to say those things? And would you say them not on a computer as "bearded red" but in the same room, as you? No need to answer that one.

I've highlighted the bit which in terms of criticism I think is perfectly reasonable, its your opinion, and BTW there are justifiable question marks raised by many over the competence of those doing the appointing, but that's a different much bigger issue. But you made it into my Hall of Shame for the sentence "he's not very bright", its also your opinion but personal insults are unnecessary. Mind you, yours was quite mild compared with egotistical tosser, penis, clown, etc.

Not saying SC is a good manager, not saying a crap manager, but IF he's a crap manager he's OUR crap manager, so get behind him and the players unless you WANT division 4 football. The Hall of Shame:

I was being generous to SOD as I included all games until SC took over but if you exclude the game where none of them were (Preston away) it's 31 conceded in 18 games at 1.72 per game, and so SOD record even worse. It wasn't intended to be a smug comment it was an observation that the poster was attempting to "prove" his point with "facts" which were not correct. Likewise, I wasn't trying to say which is the most appropriate basis of measurement - I simply responded to the poster's inaccurate reference as to how many places we are from the bottom.

Another with the "present something as fact and to hell with whether its correct or not" bug then. SOD's last 10 games also yielded 10 points. What is more, what is significant about 10? SC's last 12 have given us 16. You should have gone for last 2, that's only one point from 6, hell we are well and truly ******. Why not choose a random sequence of games to prove any point. We only picked up one point in January, we are down. Hang on forget that we just started February with two wins and a draw. No, its ok to rip into SC again now, a home draw and an away defeat. What is more an ABYSMAL away defeat - and the manager says he's a Winner! What a goon. I notice we haven't beaten a team with the letter "k" in its name all season, should the board be giving SC the dreaded vote of confidence? And what is this honeymoon period then, that's what all managers get given do they, like a signing on clause in their contract. So why don't we just change managers every 10 games, would we get the honeymoon effect 5 times a season? Why didn't Gary Johnson get it? Somebody should alert Lansdown to this, maybe an appeal to the FA and we can get those points we should have had then, now?